DISQUS

I'm sure Obama's hedged the truth like any politician. I certainly don't think he's a liar though. I do think he is just like anyone - a fallible, flawed man. I wish him the best and I hope that he is elected so that we can take at least on small step towards fixing this country.

So do you believe that the example of Acts speaks only to the church? I don't. If I believe anything about the Bible it is that it speaks to everyone - governments, individuals, churches. Reading Acts again today, I was reminded of what a truly radical document that book is. It seems like we focus on the small minutiae and miss the larger picture. Do you remember Jesus' response to the question of the most important commandment? The call to care for one another is real and evident. As Micah has pointed out, many times, choosing a politician is not the only choice that matters and it's never enough. We are called to higher action, that much is evident.

I guess fundamentally, I don't think it's just government telling you who to help. I think God does as well. We must recognize who our neighbors are and love them. That's everyone - including those whom we see as underserving. This is an area where I need a lot of work. I have divided the world into those that I like and those I don't for too long and I have been ruled by anger far too much the past, I don't know, 8 years? I need to stop.

I also don't think God's blessings can be counted in terms of money or material things. To me they are family and connections. I'm just not on board with the whole Osteen prosperity gospel I guess.

And I am interested in helping out. If there's anything I could ever do to help you and your family, financially or otherwise please let me know in all seriousness. I guess the point that I want to make in terms of government sponsored health care is this - I could send you every dime I have and it probably wouldn't do much to dent your health care costs (for one thing it wouldn't be that many dimes) For a much smaller investment from all of us though it wouldn't even be an issue.

I can tell that you are getting angry so I'll probably sign off.

Best

-m

According the non paritsan Tax Policy Center - about 2% of businesses would see a tax rate increase. Obama does in fact say that the 250K number is a reference to net profit. I can't find any information on the specifics of whether or not that means it's a cash base analysis or what. Rather than believe that he has a secret plan to raise your taxes, I'm going to take him at his word. You say, "But to say that people making under $250K are going to get a tax break is either a flat out lie or just plain ignorance." You'll have to explain this, because I don't understand your assertion.

Ultimately, it comes down to who you believe. I beileve that Barack Obama is a good man and that he is honest. He has surrounded himself with smart capable advisers (I mean really, Austen Goolsbee is not exactly a wild-eyed Marxist) I don't believe that he has a secret plan to revise the tax code so that you have to pay more. It doesn't make sense.

For what it's worth, I watched Obama's encounter with Sam the Not Plumber. Putting aside Sam's general dishonesty (he is in no shape to buy any business, let alone the imaginary 280,000 dollar a year plumbing empire he told Obama about), I thought it was a pretty standard politician/citizen rope line encounter. Obama will raise the marginal tax rate on those who make more than 250K,. He was trying to put that in the best light possible.

As far as Health Care - I just am at a loss for words. You speak about being healthy as if that is some sort of choice. It isn't. Tragedy can befall at any moment, and the results can be devastating. And I do not understand your hostility to the idea that you will be helping some one else or someone else will be helping you. I think we were on the same Bible Bowl team when we studied Acts, yes? Acts 2:46 describes how the early church members lived together and had "all things in common" and "divided all their goods as each had need." I don't think that the Bible is calling us to be communists, but I think there is a clear call to recognize our responsibility to each other. The clearest way I can see to that end is this issue of Health Care. The US ranks 37th on the WHO rankings of health systems. We have higher infant mortality rates than any industrialized nation in the world. (incidentally, we also spend more per person on health care than any other nation in the world, so not only is our system insufficient and immoral, it's also expensive!) Wouldn't you rather have France's health system (#1 on the WHO rating) where you have guaranteed coverage for everyone, cradle to grave, , far greater levels of customer (patient) satisfaction, and it costs less? That seems like a no brainer to me.

hmmm....did you not have time to mention William Ayers?

I too believe that the turnout on Nov. 4th will be historic and I think this is a great thing. It's always good when people engage in the process of democracy (I'm looking at you Micah). It should be pointed out, however, that digs at ACORN aside, the only person arrested for voter fraud so far this year is a Republican operative from California. Not to mention that ACORN has never been accused of voter fraud - some ACORN employees have surely committed voter REGISTRATION fraud, but that's a different thing altogether.

I agree that Obama is not terribly experienced, but I disagree with the certainty that he will harm the country as being the biggest no brainer in the world. I think the decision whether or not to squib kick against Atlanta with a one point lead and 11 seconds on the clock is the biggest no brainer in the world, but that's just me.

Look, Barack Obama is just exactly what he says he is, a pragmatic, center-left politician with a history of bipartisan cooperation and a classically American biography. He isn't dangerous and he doesn't want to ruin your life. And just to reiterate for the thousandth or so time - he will lower the taxes of everyone who makes less than 250,000 dollars a year, and that includes small businesses. He will also eliminate capital gains taxes for businesses in that category and provide tax credits for healthcare.

Which segues nicely into my next point - do you, Shawn, like our healthcare system? I don't. it's broken. It doesn't work. Millions of people, including children, are denied basic access to health care in this country every day. As people of faith, and people who love this country that should outrage us. It must stop.
And you are aware that people get sick for different reasons right? People do get sick because they smoke or are obese. They also get rare cancers that develop from viruses they catch while working as missionaries in India. Obama's health care plan isn't perfect, but it does make some effort to address the lack of quality care that millions in this country face.

I'm confused by what you wrote about hope and change. Do you really think that Obama wants to change the fundamental nature of America? I don't think so. Obama's appeal is based on the fact that he asks people to find the best in themselves and apply it. He speaks to the sense that when things are not going well that we have a responsibility to work hard and make it better. Have you ever actually heard him speak? He talks constantly about sacrifice and finding the commonalities that bind us together. I hope he will change some things about this country - I want troops out of Iraq, I want us to stop torture, I want a sane health care system like every other industrialized nation has, I want our reputation to improve, I want to break a dependence on middle eastern oil which destroys millions of lives. Is Obama going to achieve everything that I want? Of course not, but maybe he'll get there and stop the bleeding.
As far as socialism goes, well to quote Inigo, "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means". According to the dictionary socialism is "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods" There is a candidate who has nationalized the means of production, her name is Sarah Palin.

when you introduced Osama - you lost all credibility and my interest in engaging with you

what reasons could there have been for taking the community organizing job since we're talking about projection?

Sadcox - he spent 7 years as a state senator in IL and he is currently a US Senator. He taught Con Law at the University of Chicago and he graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law School and was the first African American editor of the Law Review. He has one or two more things on his resume than organizing. And as Jo said, that experience speaks more to his character that he would choose that job rather than a higher paying corporate job. It was also a moving experience for him personally, I think, which is why he brings it up. He probably wouldn't be in politics today without that experience. If Sarah Palin hadn't been involved the the community organization called the PTA she probably wouldn't be either.

Katie, I'm curious, did you do a poll of Obama supporters to come to your conclusions. What was your methodology? How did you compare the knowledge base of Obama supporters vs McCain supporters? Do you remember that two weeks ago John McCain's entire campaign was based on the fact that Barack Obama is too inexperienced to be president and now it is based on the idea that McCain/Palin is the ticket for change? We have never been at war with Eurasia, we have always been at war with Eastasia

As you your other points about our economy -I don't know anyone who has said we are in a depression. Several people have said that we are in the beginnings of a possible recession and that's a different thing. As far as your point about cell phones and eating out - well I'm flummoxed by that comment. Lots of people do eat out and buy cell phones, but 37.5 million people in this country live below the poverty line and 18% of all children are below that level as well. And let's be frank. The poverty line is a JOKE. A family of 5 in this country that makes more than 25000 dollars a year is not in poverty by the US census bureau standards. That is simply insane. Rachel and I have one child, and we live in a modest apartment in LA and we pay over 16,000 dollars in year in RENT. How can that line possibly be accurate?. There is great economic disparity (and despair) in this country and it must be addressed.

To your other point about the yelling - well ask yourself which convention contained more nastiness and ugliness? R or D? Which campaign has been based almost solely on lies told about their opponents? That's a clear answer. There was a media firestorm about Sarah Palin's daughter's pregnancy until someone asked Barack Obama about it and he responded that he was born to an eighteen year old mother and he understood that things simply turn out that way sometimes. He then said that families should be off limits and that reporters should back off and stop writing about Palin's family. (he has said similar things about her religion in recent days). How did Palin respond? By giving one of the most mean spirited and ungracious speeches I have ever heard - including mocking Obama, by name in personal terms. The noise is coming from one side.

As for having never met a Barack Obama supporter who doesn't know what his views are - hi my name's Matt

So, Sadcox, since you wrote the quote which started this discussion, do you want to answer my original comment? how is community organizing "padding" his resume? Why is that aspect of his bio something to be mocked or disdained?

I've been trying to think of a response to your post, but I'm not really sure what it is you're saying so I'm a little stymied.

I'm interested in the issues pages that the candidates have because, unlike a short stump speech which is designed to be memorable and general, they are very specific and detailed (in McCain's case they are relatively detailed). Or to put it another way, I don't know or care if John McCain dislikes disabled people. I do want to know what his policies are as they relate to the disabled. His personal feelings are meaningless. So is his history. Some aspects of McCain's personal story are incredibly powerful. His experience and behavior as a POW are humbling. But you know what I care more about? The fact that he voted against the 21st century GI Bill.

Or to put it another way - I don't think Sarah Palin is unqualified to be president because she has limited experience. I think she is unqualified because she doesn't understand basic facts about our current economic crisis (see her comments about Freddie Mac).

And policy proposal are just that proposals….they don’t actually mean anything. Look at someone’s record….what have they actually done.

This statement contains everything that is wrong with politics today. The only thing that matters are what do we think a politician will do. Biography is much less important. History is less important. The specific plan that a politician has to affect the way this country is run is much more telling and important.

We've heard a lot about Sarah Palin's child who was born with Down Syndrome and she said in her speech that special needs kids would always have a friend in her, and that's great - the developmentally disabled community is probably the most silent and under served population in this country. So what does it tell us that Barack Obama has had a page on his issues site devoted to Disabilities (and as someone who has spent a lot of time working with special needs individuals I can tell you it's all very good policy) since the day he created his website? Which one matters more? McCain doesn't mention Disabilities at all on his issues page and has never made it an issue. What does that tell you?

We live in the real world and these people are trying to become some of the most important people in our lives. Their personal stories influence me much less than their vision for what out world should become.

Where did I compare Sarah Palin and Barack Obama? Not once in my entire post. As I said two comments above, I don't actually think that any job is really a qualification or preparation for the presidency -governor, senator or mayor of Wasilla. If you look at my last post you will see that I said that the most important qualifications are a character evaluation and an understanding of policy proposals. I never once said that Palin doesn't have experience.

In fact I don't care about her experience at all except in terms of what it says about John McCain. Sarah Palin is only unqualified to be the president by the standards expressed by her running mate. McCain has made the only case for his candidacy by telling us that Obama isn't qualified to be president, only he, John McCain, POW is worthy, and then he picked a person whose "qualifications" are even slimmer than Barack's. This is proof that he doesn't believe anything that he says.

well as someone else said - Jesus was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor

Actually I fail to see how being governor of a state like Alaska, or Texas or even Arkansas is really a preparation for being president of the US. None of them are close to the scale and scope of the presidency and none have anything close to the diplomatic or foreign policy requirements. The best indicator seems to be a judgment of an individual's character and most importantly an analysis of their policy proposals

I agree - I'm not really sure what work does actually qualify you to be president

why is community organizer a resume padding? He worked for a church based grassroots organization trying to establish job training programs for laid off steelworkers. I don't know why that is somehow a problem or something to mock

1. English should be the official language of government. (87 to 11) - Why?

2. The option of a single rate system should give taxpayers the convenience of filing their taxes with just a single sheet of paper. (82 to 15) - Good for really rich people!

3. Every worker should continue to have the right to a federally supervised secret ballot election when deciding whether to organize a union. (79 to 12) - Good for Walmart!

4. Keeping the reference to “One Nation Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance is very important. (88 to 11) - Why?

5. We favor the option of a single employer tax rate of 17% that would lower taxes for some businesses that pay up to 38%, while also closing loopholes that some corporations use to pay less in taxes. (74 to 22) Good for Walmart!

6. Congress should make it a crime to advocate acts of terrorism, violent conduct, or the killing of innocent people in the United States. (83 to 12) - They don't?

7. We should dramatically increase our investment in math and science education. (91 to 8 ) - Who doesn't?

8. The United States should only grant citizenship to those who want to embrace American values and culture. (68 to 29) - What are American values? Are they different from Mexican values? How about those corrupt New Zealanders?

9. Illegal immigrants who commit felonies should be deported. (88 to 10) - So they can come right back?

10. We support giving a large financial prize to the first company or individual who invents a new, safer way to dispose of nuclear waste products. (79 to 16) Great!