Disqus - Latest Comments for Elle

Re: New Year’s Resolutions

Elle — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:57:49 -0000

I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years now. No seafood, beef, chicken, etc., though I do still eat eggs from cage-free chickens and the occasional cheese. The key is to use good recipes...and the web is chockfull of them! Search around and you'll be amazed.

Play with this and have fun with it--the 30 days will just fly by!

Happy Eating!

Elle

Re: The Liminal Problem

Elle — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 06:16:42 -0000

Jonathan,
You sure strike a chord deep within me on this one! I sometimes think we need to live in the land of liminality for a long time in order to truly separate us from the "old" ways of not only doing things, but even the way we tend to automatically think and view things. It's been over a decade since I've been here in Liminal Land. In looking back, I can see it took all this time to get me to the place where I can truly begin to receive, I mean truly receive, from above. My hands were either clutching the old (even while claiming to reject it!) OR they were grasping toward the "dream of what could be." Either way, not good!

It's only been this last year that I'm coming to see that I need to be able to truly receive from above before anything else can truly happen that might express the Kingdom of God. This liminal time can be wondrous...our many wounds can be healed, our cold love can be heated up, our many "visions" can be stricken down, and our silly notions can finally fly out the window!

So I sit, longing and yearning, for more of the "real," and watching my Father slowly start to build trust in me that He is able, and He is going to fulfill all his purposes, and He's delighted I want to come along for the ride and share in it! I'm like a 2-year-old child, but it's a good place to be! From someone that used to "be in the ministry" and could really "make it happen (gag!)," there's no better place to be.

So, fellow liminal-ers, let's enjoy the time in this strange land. Let's embrace it! Let's receive healing for our wounds! Let's watch our grasp on the past and our vision for the future fly away! Maybe it's only then that we can watch HIM build HIS KINGDOM! And lucky us will be invited to join Him in His work!

Elle

Re: The Liminal Problem

Elle — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 12:44:53 -0000

Jonathan,

I could not agree more with this statement of yours:

"Normally I think the “and” takes a generation at least and maybe more. But our generation and those behind us have been born and bred on change as a constant. I am now beginning to believe that our reconstruction into the next will come much sooner than we think."

I really do believe we're entering a "compression" of time where things will be happening much faster than we could have imagined. We can only hope!

Elle

Re: My Friend “Blank” The Homosexual

Elle — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 12:26:34 -0000

Jonathan,

This was so well said. Thanks for having the courage to write it. I could not agree with you more.

Elle

Re: Page 123 Meme

Elle — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 06:04:36 -0000

I definitely want to play along; thanks for the "invite!"

http://thebestparts.blogspot.com/

or

http://tinyurl.com/2h5yzw

Elle

Re: The Emerging Pastor Quandary

Elle — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:28:04 -0000

I remember when I heard that same quote from Upton Sinclair that I immediately thought of pastors and the emerging church and home church movement. Both my husband and I were paid, on-staff pastors at a church. When we began to see that perhaps there was a better way for us go about "ministry" rather than on a paid basis we "left" the ministry. The outrage that WE first felt when we dared to examine the truth still astounds me today. At one point my husband (a very gentle man!) threw a book he was reading across the room. In the end, however, our hearts were convinced that this is what we were being called to do, and we had to resign our positions, get full-time jobs in the "secular" world, and move on from there.

The interesting part of the story is the reaction of all the other pastors in our area. We had all been friends, met regularly, shared our hearts with one another, etc. Suddenly, though, we were the enemy! It still amazes me to this day, and it has been many years. We were not trying to convince them of anything, just following the Lord where we felt He was leading us. That made no difference. Our views and new life were so threatening to them. We were cut off, lied about, slandered in so many ways, and completely rejected. I think what astounds me most about it is that if you had ASKED any of those pastors about the above quote prior to us leaving, they all would have said, "Oh, no problem, that's not an issue for me." The reality is, though, it is not an issue because many cannot even open up their hearts enough to examine alternate ways of "doing ministry." But our lives brought to the surface what was in the depths of their hearts.

Many years later we have rebuilt a few relationships with some of these pastors, but we've learned to just not go near certain topics that are simply too threatening for them to truly consider with an open heart and open mind. We love them dearly and have no doubt that we are as deceived as they are, just in other areas....it seems to be the human condition, doesn't it? :-)

Great post!

Dora (who wishes to use this fake name so I can remain anonymous!)

Re: Restoring Fallen Leaders

Elle — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:52:48 -0000

I just loved this post, Jonathan. It's a heartbreaker, no doubt. This story has been repeated over and over and over again.

In my wildest hopes and dreams, I picture every Christian leader that has fallen being fully restored. They will be more compassionate, more loving, and more humble than those leaders that have not publically fallen because they now know the power of restoration, they now know the true heart that lies within all of us enabling any one of us to fall at any time, and they now know how deep the mercy and forgiveness of Christ truly is.

While I'm dreaming, I also imagine every broken and bruised reed that used to serve with joy but ended up too beaten up to continue to serve in any capacity at all. There are thousands of them now hiding out in their own private caves of Adullum, wondering if that is where they will spend the rest of their lives. I imagine a shout going forth from heaven when the time is right, saying to both the fallen as well as to the bruised and bloody, "Come forth!" much as Jesus called to Lazarus. I think then the world will see the glory of Christ as his formerly bloodied, beaten down servants now serve with a humble heart filled with gratitude that they never could have known apart from the path they've walked on.

If I’m gonna' dream, I'm gonna dream big. I seriously long for all of the above and hope one day to see it with my own eyes.

From a fellow-sister who is preparing to leave her own cave of Adullum one day soon,

Elle

Re: Restoring Fallen Leaders

Elle — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:25:35 -0000

Jonathan wrote:

"Elle, I think we’ve missed one of the most powerful testimonies to grace when we allow leaders to be left behind. I hope you leave Adullum soon."

I couldn't agree with you more. That's why it's so sad.

As to me and my cave, I'm inching toward the opening more and more every day. Once my eyes are acclimated to the light, I expect to be out for good :-). Some day soon....

Elle

Re: The Delete Button

Elle — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:24:12 -0000

Jonathan,

You made me laugh out loud. I've been sitting on a quote I wanted to post on my blog for a few days but just could not find the right words to put it into context. Well, you've done it for me, so I'll just post it here as it is so perfect for what you've written:

"There have been times in my life--too many times, I'm sad to admit--I have spoken or acted so unthinkingly that I do not doubt that civilized people would be better off if I simply returned to the jungles where I spent so many of my years. Build myself a bamboo hut. Hang a sign over the door: Beware the Big Dumb Sh**. Use a stick to bang a hollowed-out log if I absolutely have to communicate."

It sums up how I've felt too many times in my own life!

(Written by Randy Wayne White in a novel called Captiva, page 180. The book is beyond terrible, deadly dull, but this one paragraph made it worth the entirely dull and uninspired reading it took to get there!).

Thanks for sharing. I needed that laugh today!

Elle (Tracy)

Re: Compassion For My Friends Who Were Enemies

Elle — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:42:48 -0000

Jonathan, thanks so much for opening up your life to us this way. It's always wonderful to see the healing that can come into our lives this way. I've had encounters like this a few times in my own life, and the freedom afterwards is really incredible. I rejoice with you!
Tracy

Re: New Conspirators - Saturday

Elle — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 07:42:35 -0000

Jonathan,

Thanks for taking the time, energy and effort to post these last three days on the conference. I so appreciated it! Got a good feel for what went on plus loved the great links to new blogs, web sites, etc., that I had not visited before.

Great stuff, sure wish I could have been there!
Tracy

Re: Mike Foster on Restoration

Elle — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:33:09 -0000

Just this morning I had a discussion with a man who was sharing about how immature he felt most of the Western church is. He, in part, defined that immaturity as coming from so many leaders who felt that "maturity" was "having it all together." So, if you don't have it all together, you have to fake it or risk being labeled "immature." He talked about how the mature were those who fully recognized and accepted the depravity of their sin nature and so could be transparent with others in their own struggles. It has really had me thinking about how few "safe spaces" there are for Christians--ANY Christian, "leader" or not--to share their struggles without severe repercussions falling upon them. I think I'm going to have to write a blog on that topic....

Part of me is so sad about this and part of me is just so pissed off at yet another way "the system" destroys so many people. What a mess. I sure am glad it's not my bride to clean up ;-). I'd be wringing my hands in hopelessness for sure, but not our Lord! I think it's going to be beautiful to behold what He does with the mess we've created....

Re: Linkin Park Is The Emerging Generation

Elle — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:50:11 -0000

I've always liked this band and I really like this song a lot. I'd be surprised if many Christians (if they were really being honest with themselves) could honestly judge this. Maybe it's just the people I hang with, but most everyone I know has at one point or another thought (and said), "What the f*** is wrong with me?" even after they've become a Christian. I sure have :-). Just last night I read these words in a book, "You are a not a liability to God," (I'll quote it in full tomorrow on my blog if you want to read the context) and I cried like a baby. My emotional response told me I still in some sense deep inside I still think, "What the f*** is wrong with me?!!!.

Anyway, all that to say that it seems to me people with lyrics and hearts like this are just a tiny step away from embracing the gospel (the true gospel, not necessarily one that most Christians hold out when they think of "the gospel").

Re: Linkin Park Is The Emerging Generation

Elle — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:41:02 -0000

Jonathan, well at least you HAVE an accompanying soundtrack in your head; I just hear an echo! ;-)

Re: Linkin Park Is The Emerging Generation

Elle — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:17:11 -0000

Daniel, I'm with you there....I really think in the Kingdom of God age is as irrelevant as is being male or female or any of the other commonly used divisive devices. I'm 48 and definitely an emerging Christian...."right" generation or not!

Re: Restorative Spiritual Healing

Elle — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:27:59 -0000

Jonathan, your post says what I've been experiencing in my life for the past year. The piece you mention about dignity is HUGE and yet you rarely hear of it in Christian circles. I don't know why that is. I've mulled it over much and come up with a few guesses, but nothing concrete yet.

I've been meaning to ask you a question for awhile and this post reminded me. I've been to the Thrive web site several times but cannot seem to find where you can order any of the books. I'm sure it's staring me right in the face, but if you could provide that link to me, that would be great. Thanks!

Re: Best Video I’ve Seen This Year

Elle — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:45:58 -0000

That was utterly incredible to watch, really to partake of, more of an experience than a disconnected "watching." I'm in awe...thanks for sharing this.

Re: Modernity and Postmodernity

Elle — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:24:59 -0000

The right brain/left brain test with the dancer totally freaked me out! The dancer would spin clockwise for about 20 seconds, then I'd glance away and look back and she'd be spinning to the anti-clockwise. 20 seconds later and she was going back the other way again! I could not "make" her change direction by concentrating on, but whenever I'd look away and then back, she had changed direction again. Very disturbing :). I'm not sure what that says about my brain--maybe very little separating the two halves--ha!

Re: I’m Stoked

Elle — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 12:55:37 -0000

I totally agree. Something is coming forth and it's awesome when we can recognize it right in the midst of it happening!

As to Souljah Boy, you haven't experienced the fullness of this song until you've watched SpongeBob SquarePants singing it: http://tinyurl.com/3yvnd8

Makes me laugh every single time!

Re: Spiritual Formation 2

Elle — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 07:53:36 -0000

Jonathan, I've been mulling this over since yesterday and woke up this morning with this being my first thought: Is the shortest way necessarily the best way ?

Last night I went to hear Dr. Bernie Siegel speak. He gave an interesting talk, but the one thing that struck me the most was when he talked about water. He spoke of how if it could push an obstacle out of its way it, would, but if not, it would go around it or over it, etc.

Anyway, I'm just thinking that we in our Western mindsets think shortest means quickest, and quickest means the best way, but I'm not so sure. I know you were not saying any of that; I'm just sharing my stream of consciousness here as I processed it. Lucky you! Ha!

Re: Spiritual Formation 2

Elle — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:13:35 -0000

Yes, I thought of those scriptures as well. I've read previously that the actual trek through the desert should have been anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks (depending on what scholar you read) and instead it took them 40 years of wandering in circles, largely due to their unbelief and hardened hearts. Still, I think we Western thinkers have a somewhat distorted view of the entire concept of time.

I think of the scripture in Luke that says, "And as Jesus grew older He gained in both wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. " We know he didn't start his ministry until he was 30 years old. Why not when he was 18? Or 21? I think we all still have something to learn about the timing of God. Of course, this didn't have to do with an obstacle being in His way, so maybe I'm stretching this too far.

I guess where I stand is that I totally agree with what you've written in your last comment, AND I think sometimes His timing is not ours and we don't like that very much!

Speaking of timing, the book still has not arrived and I'm stamping my feet impatiently, wanting to dig right in. :) Hubby just left to go to the post office--maybe today!

Re: Top 50 Possible Reasons Why You’re Not Emergent

Elle — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 12:24:11 -0000

Very funny, and #14 and #24 made me laugh out loud!

Re: The Journey Of A Leader

Elle — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:21:02 -0000

I get really pissed when I see you've been reading my diary again! ;-)

Seriously, this is exactly where I'm at. For me, it's not even having "failed" in the past, it's the fear of failing in the future (my definition of failing in this context is to lead somebody down the wrong path). God's answer to me: Get over yourself and love anyway; I'm bigger than your mistakes.

Perfect timing, as always, Jonathan.

Re: The Really Hard Section

Elle — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:22:32 -0000

That simple diagram has so much in it. I've read entire books that took hundreds of pages to say the same thing (Devern Fromke's book Ultimate Intention spring to mind). It's really making a powerful statement.

What I like about it most, though, is that the story starts and ends with God, not with man. It's where I think most people's ideas of the "gospel" message go horribly astray--with the starting point with man instead of with God. Sure wish I could have heard the words that went along with this diagram!

Re: Redemption Song

Elle — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:02:53 -0000

Gotta' love the Bob. If you like Bob, you might like Michael Franti. He's got such a great sound, every song has such a different sound. He's can croon so slow and lovely and he can rock it out; he's reggae/rap/rock/hip hop, and sometimes a little bit of soul--just so varied. You can listen to some of his tunes here:
http://www.spearheadvibrations.com/

His Yell Fire CD is the one my hubby and I consistently crank up loud in the car. We saw him in concert last year and I've never seen anyone on stage with that level of energy. Then I'm afraid I fell into sin when I fell in love with him after I watched a movie he made called "I know I'm not alone." :-) He went to Iraq, Israel, and Palestinian territories with his guitar and recorded the journey. His heart is bigger than a house. Gotta' love that....

Re: We Are First Human

Elle — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:49:12 -0000

I echo Jeromy's use of the word "humility." Whenever I do what you wrote about, it is so clearly arrogance in my heart. Finding a way to make the "other guy" a little bit smaller so that I can be bigger. It makes me a little bit sick to even it type it out that plainly, but let's call it what it is, right? May we all find our "bigness" (i.e., true dignity) in being made in the image of God, and not in anything else. It's enough! Feel free to remind me of that in the future....

Re: When Love Breaks Your Heart

Elle — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:53:20 -0000

Great post, as always (I am waiting for the day when you post a really awful one so that I can say, "Crappy post, Jonathan, what were you thinking?!" Ha-ha!). On a more serious note, though, one thing I've learned over the past year is that my "protective" shell does not protect me at all. It is like holding a sheet up in front of me as bullets are being fired. It may feel good to hold up SOME sort of barrier, but to the bullets, the sheet is a joke. Same with life and my heart. The only difference is, my "protective shell" CAN keep people out, though it really does nothing to protect me from hurt.

I've also found it's not necessarily a one-time deal. I have to choose to be a shell-less turtle day after day, though it gets easier and easier with every passing day as I learn how I am meant to truly engage life as it is set before me.

Re: Yes We Can

Elle — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:50:39 -0000

I finally had time to watch this. I'm with you, Daniel, Obama's got my vote. I'm so sick of trying to stick it out with the republican party. Enough is enough and I'm gonna' shout it with my vote. I told some folks this a few months ago and got the expected mortified looks....oh well!

Re: Leadership As Influence

Elle — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:51:43 -0000

Jonathan, well you know where I come from on all of this, don't you? :-)

What is wonderful to me is not just words like you've written, above, but the fact that you actually live out and model this type of leadership. I've read so much from leaders on not exercising control, but then when the real life interaction begins the reality is often quite different from their words. Not so with you, I am so happy to say!

I often think if leaders could hear the chains dropping off of people when they release control, they'd be far more likely to continue to do so in the future. And maybe the opposite is true as well: If leaders could hear the chains going onto people when they exercise control, perhaps they would be far less likely to continue to walk in that place.

Clink, clink, clink....I'll leave a few more chains right here.

Re: The Evangelical Tension

Elle — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:25:56 -0000

I know I'm chiming in late here, but I just had time to watch that video. I'm so glad you pointed it out to us, Jonathan. I thought it was very worthwhile to watch.

Darin, I tend to agree with you. That's what I kept thinking as I watched it, how different the generations were in their response to things, especially concerning expecting the government to fix the problems and have answers to the questions.

Shane is an amazing man and I love the grace that he exudes. It seems to ooze from his pores :). I so appreciate the kingdom mentality that he just refused to be swayed from no matter what the other said.

Re: Moby Sure Sounds Emergent

Elle — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:22:14 -0000

I find it so freeing to feel like I don't have to worry about having it all "right" anymore. Being loved and loving back seem to be enough these days.

I really like Moby's music, too!

Re: The Sheep And The Goats

Elle — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:20:52 -0000

Jonathan, your post on this particular scripture brought to mind one of my favorite scriptures. Proverbs 25:2: It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

I have no real insight on the scripture passage you've quoted, but just wanted to comment that it seems in some scriptures, like this one, we can see God delights to have us search out a matter after He's concealed it. Somehow this really delights me about God: A bit of hide-n-seek from Father to His child.

Re: The Other Son

Elle — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:41:42 -0000

"And I realized while reading this that grace and mercy are an offense to religion." I have run into this more times than I can count in the last 3-4 years. I am continually amazed how people would rather believe in judgment and punishment, in do's and dont's, than in grace and mercy. I've come to the conclusion that religion is very "safe" to people. They can understand a god created in their own image and feel safe in the rules and regulations, but throw open the door and declare freedom and so many folks are too afraid to walk through it. Mercy, for some, is a truly scary thought if they cannot earn it.

Re: The New Lepers

Elle — Thu, 01 May 2008 09:52:57 -0000

Kelli, thank you so much for having the courage to share here. After this post and a few others I've read over the past few weeks I've realized one thing: All I am called to do is love. I'm not called to figure it all out. I'm not called to decide "right" from "wrong." I'm not called to do anything right now except for love. Maybe that will change for me in the future, but right now my path is so clearcut.

It's funny to me how that ONE thing (loving) clears up all the muddy water. I've just realized how I feel responsible to have it all figured out--and that's never gonna' happen. But even where I don't understand, I can extend mercy and grace and compassion and love, and I will never be wrong in doing those things.

I feel like such a weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I was carrying something I was never meant to carry.

Re: The Gods Aren’t Angry DVD

Elle — Sun, 04 May 2008 06:55:01 -0000

Jonathan, I just went back and read your post all the comments on your original review. I have to so much to say that it would be ridiculous to post it all here, so I won't! I'll save it for a future blog posting of my own. But I did want to comment on two things that really struck me:

(1) There's a really interesting scripture that explains so much to me. It's Colossians 1:21: "Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior." The interesting part is the "in your minds." We were enemies of God, in our minds. I won't say any more than that, except this: Selah!

(2) The comments about people being hesitant to go against 2000 years of orthodoxy struck me as a bit funny. The entire "hell" concept as we know it today was a pagan concept that was not taught in early church life for the first 300 years after Christ rose from the dead. I'm afraid we Western Christianity folks really do tend to think that theology as we know it is "the" truth and "the" original way it has always been known and taught. It's pretty arrogant and very funny to me that we tend to think this way, but it's very much a product of our culture, I think. We feel very safe and in control to think that "our" way of seeing and knowing things is the absolute truth and the way it's always been. These folks in Martin Luther's day would have set the man on fire, since he was then going against all that was "orthodox" back then. God bless the heretics who will challenge "orthodoxy," I say! :-)

Re: The Gods Aren’t Angry DVD

Elle — Mon, 05 May 2008 05:29:37 -0000

I've ordered the video. Will let you know my thoughts after I've watched it....

Re: The Two Camps

Elle — Wed, 07 May 2008 05:33:08 -0000

I am so grateful that I grew up in an atheistic home. Seriously, I'm grateful. When I came to know Jesus I was 25 years old. I didn't have any religious baggage to get rid of as I knew nothing at all about God, Jesus, church, etc.

Since then, though, I've "grown up" in what I think is the most damaging of all: Places that seem to preach grace, but the law is hidden there under the surface. The message is that you're forgiven and loved, but.... That "but" brings more confusion and condemnation than most of us realize. That's why I've spent the last decade of my life clearing it out of my head!

Sounds like a great book. I know what I'll be reading soon.

Re: The Two Camps

Elle — Wed, 07 May 2008 17:27:45 -0000

I did not have a hard time leaving atheism at all. No one had ever just sat me down and presented the gospel to me. The first time I heard it, it just made so much sense to me and I said yes on the spot.

I hear so many folks come to know Jesus when they're at the bottom of the barrel of life, but that wasn't the case with me. I'd just gotten married two months earlier and was as happy as a pig in mud. :) Rich (my hubby) and I came to know Jesus at the same time, so that was doubly wonderful. We went home that night just floored--and deliriously happy! We've never looked back.

Re: Stunning Viral Church Growth

Elle — Thu, 22 May 2008 14:09:38 -0000

Thanks for passing this on--excellent! You know what I like best about this? That it's not western Christianity being imported to these other nations and polluting them with our warped perspectives.

I've traveled to a number of nations in the past and was mortified to see how wherever western missionaries had been, the church was just like what you see here in the States, down to length of "service," type and style of "worship," even to the time of day that they met, etc. I spoke at a conference in Nepal with an interpreter and cried my way through it, mortified that we had brought our baggage over there and deposited it right into their laps. I know that is not true of everyone everywhere (I personally know some great missionaries who do not do this), but I've seen it in too many nations to think that it is a rare occurrence.

I love hearing how God is moving among people right where they are, as they are, with who they are. Yes, sounds like God to me!

Re: Losing Someone You Can’t Replace

Elle — Fri, 23 May 2008 21:18:34 -0000

Jonathan,

This is one of the most powerful pieces you've ever written, at least for my heart.

I cried when I read it, in both gratitude and what I would almost say felt something like a holy fear, of how close I've come to letting tragedy and the sins of others against me to define the entire rest of my life....so close it scares me to think about it. I might easily have given up and given in and become a bitter person.

Only through His grace and the love of others, was I able to come through to "Though he slay me, yet will I trust him," and perhaps even harder, "Though fellow humans slay me, yet will I trust Jesus and still love and trust others."

Thanks for the power of your words.

Re: To Miss Out

Elle — Wed, 28 May 2008 07:22:03 -0000

Jonathan, I love that definition: To miss out. Each of us could probably come up with dozens of "reasons" (i.e., excuses!) why we are "missing out." I like what you said, Bryan, about a lack of trust--so true!

Daniel, if you've not read "Leading with a Limp" yet (Dan Allender), you might really find that book useful to you at this point in your journey. That book was so used in my life to just get on with whatever God has set before me to do, regardless of my "limp!"

George, I'd love to hear more about why you think our sin separates us from God. I used to feel that way, but now I feel Jesus jumps into the sin pit with me when I chose to go there. He doesn't stand far away and wait for me to finish and repent before drawing near. For while we were yet sinners....

Re: To Miss Out

Elle — Wed, 28 May 2008 16:27:48 -0000

Okay, that's a bit clearer! I think I would probably take it further than you do, even with that clarification. My view (from what I see in scripture) is that as a Christian, my sin does not separate me from God. It can certainly cause me to lose my enjoyment of God, my sense of joy, etc., but to say that it actually separates me from God? No, I cannot buy it, not since the cross. My life and our closeness comes from what He has done, and Him alone, not from my actions (or lack of actions).

His faithfulness and friendship toward me are not withdrawn (separation) from me when I sin, though I may very well lose all consciousness of His presence should I intentionally continue down sin's path. To lose the conscious presence of Him versus actually being separated from Him are two really different things, though, and for me the distinction is an important one.

Grace,
Tracy

Re: To Miss Out

Elle — Wed, 28 May 2008 17:02:20 -0000

Exactly my thoughts, Jonathan.

Re: Why We Don’t Like Grace

Elle — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 06:45:10 -0000

Your post reminds me of a great RF Capon quote: ""However much we hate the law, we are more afraid of grace." Your post explains why that is so true.

Re: The Wrath Of God Is Love

Elle — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:21:36 -0000

You heretic!

I'm lovin' it, you know I am! I'm tracking with you 100%. Guess that makes me a heretic, too.

Re: A Must Read

Elle — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:54:18 -0000

Just a few days ago (I think, I lose track of time so quickly these days!) a friend sent me an email and she closed it with this: "This is going to be the year of the.............I wonder how you would fill in the blank?"

I responded back: The cross.

So, your post was timely for me. I've wandered pretty far afield these last few years, but back to the cross I go. There's no better place to be.

Re: The Role of Pastor

Elle — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:51:06 -0000

Jonathan, you and Bill and Brant have gotten me all riled up!

http://tinyurl.com/3hs68e

:)

Tracy

Re: Church Planting Hell

Elle — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:48:30 -0000

It exhausted me just reading this merry-go-round "church planting" stuff, man! I cannot even relate to most of the terminology anymore, let alone trying to live like that. It's really sad to me. Seems like the scenario is largely wrong from A-Z.

Just one more comment: In the NT it doesn't seem like people with pastoral gifting ever "planted" churches. Apostles seemed to get things started, not "pastors." But don't get me started on the pastor thing again!

Re: Church Planting Hell

Elle — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:10:06 -0000

Quit riling me up, Brink!

http://tinyurl.com/4ylc9d

:)

Tracy

Re: The Fear Of Not Participating

Elle — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 06:14:12 -0000

Jonathan, I know exactly what you are talking about/feeling, and yup, sure have felt that way myself a few times in life, increasingly so as brokenness gets worked out in my life more and more....

Do you think it's a sign of humility? I don't mean the typical way humility is taught in churches, but I mean a deep humility that knows, in some sense, we really do not have anything to offer, and yet in another just as real sense, we have Him living within us and have so much to offer. I love that tension, I really do. I think it's easy to see people fall on one side of the fence or the other in this, but what statements like, "I'm afraid of NOT doing it" are made, I think the tension is being kept in great balance. (Note to person who commented above: I did not mention any names so no $1000 OR link will be forthcoming). We know we may be in the midst of being called to participate in something, but do we have what it takes? Will we corrupt it? Do we dare not do it?

One other thing that really struck me in this post was this line: "By talking about it we were exposing some pretty serious dreams that each of us longed for and hoped for." A few weeks ago I was talking to Kathy Escobar (via phone, too far away to do it in person!) and we were brainstorming some things in my future because I'm having to make decisions about school, work, "ministry," etc. We got all done talking about all that were possibilities that I'd put on the table and she asked the most simple and profound question: What is really in your heart to do? I just burst into tears. Because the heart knows what it wants no matter how many other factors or choices or paths there are involved. It was a defining moment for me. I was easily able to state immediately (when I got done crying!) what is in my heart. And, like above-not-mentioned person said, "I'm afraid not to do it."

Okay, this comment is getting too long. I think I'll just have to go blog on it. At least this time it's not out of being riled up!

Thanks for sharing the unfolding of this journey with us. And, the link to Tribe was nothing but a big, fat tease, so cut that out! :-)

Re: The Fear Of Not Participating

Elle — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:24:52 -0000

An email is on the way....

Re: The Fear Of Not Participating

Elle — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:44:32 -0000

I'm glad it resonated with you, Pops!

Re: One Buttock Christianity

Elle — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:34:41 -0000

That was well worth the 20 minutes. Thanks for sharing. The shining eyes part is what hit me, too, so I'll save that for your shining eyes post!

Re: Straight From The Horses Mouth

Elle — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:16:54 -0000

Jonathan, I wonder if you'd consider writing a post, expanding on the comments you've written here? This is powerful, powerful stuff and I think you are touching on something that is very (sadly) neglected in many of God's children.

Re: Walk The Talk?

Elle — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:56:56 -0000

I absolutely believe that is true. In my life it means that my heart does not yet have the faith to believe it, to incorporate it into the depths of my being, even though my mind understands it and knows it to be true.

Re: Resurrect Me

Elle — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 19:02:07 -0000

Jonathan, what a beautiful post. You are touching on something that has been brewing in my heart for a few weeks now, surrounding brokenness. Too long for a comment here, so I'll post about it perhaps tomorrow. Anyway, just wanted to say I hear you, I see your heart; I get it, I'm there too. Thanks for your open, honest heart.

Re: Stuff That Doesn’t Make Sense To Me

Elle — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 06:20:23 -0000

I'm glad this doesn't make sense to you. If it did, I'd be very, very worried about your mental health.

Steve, too funny. I'd forgotten all about that episode until you mentioned it!

Re: A True Friend

Elle — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:20:24 -0000

Jonathan I saw this movie back in June (http://tinyurl.com/588dmc) and it so impacted me. I thought about it for weeks afterwards and I want to watch it again.

Great questions about a true friend. For me I think the number one quality I look for is honesty: Where the person can be completely honest with me and where I can be totally honest with them as well. If I cannot have that piece, nothing much can get built from there. I also love people who challenge me and aren't afraid to say, "Simmons, you've got a problem here!" I guess that ties back to honesty again, doesn't it? I'm sure I'll be mulling these questions over for awhile now.

Re: Interesting Stuff

Elle — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:06:34 -0000

Oh, man, you are so going to hell, I mean for sure, 'cause you're reading tentmaker.org site. Ha!

Actually, that is one of my favorite reconciliation web sites. Gary Amirault and his wife, Michelle, have two of the sweetest spirits imaginable. Just so gentle and loving, but not afraid to proclaim the truth as they know it. Love that link--it's not one I've read before.

Re: Interesting Stuff

Elle — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:11:24 -0000

Gary has all sorts of wonderful, deep teachings on his web site. When you have some free time (I know you have so much of that!) it's worth digging around a bit on that site. I've been reading through it for years (literally) and I've only skimmed the surface.

Re: The Funniest Video

Elle — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:00:22 -0000

Oh, man, if my marriage ever gets to this point, please just shoot me and put me out of my misery!

Re: Interesting Stuff

Elle — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:16:08 -0000

Abmo, if you liked that one, you would probably enjoy the book "Kingdom, Grace, and Judgment" by Robert Farrar Capon. It's not an easy read and I sure don't agree with all of what he writes, but he can peel back the layers on the parables in a way that you'll never look at them the same way again.

Re: A Disclaimer

Elle — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:29:27 -0000

Jonathan, it's kind of sad that you even had to write this post, but I know it was needed. It's why I finally had to set the comments on my blog to moderation. There are some angry, disrespectful people out there if we don't say just what they want to hear. It never ceases to amaze me that people really believe their theology is 100% correct. I find it laughable as I really do think even the best folks probably have it about 2% correct! I am growing more comfortable walking in uncertainty as it puts the responsibility on Jesus to have it all right and figured out, not me. He just lets me play the theology game so that I can enjoy discovering Him in surprising places.

What you've expressed in this post is really one of my favorite things about you: You really do encourage honest, challenging dialogue, even if someone has a take that you don't agree with, as long as it's done respectfully. Having just experienced that with you, I know you mean what you wrote here.

I'm so glad to know you'll keep on writing.

Re: The Cleaner

Elle — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:12:41 -0000

Someone told me this show is based on a guy who really does this, which makes it all the more interesting to me. I haven't seen it yet, but hope to.

Re: Rollins On Knowledge

Elle — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:18:24 -0000

I remember what I first found out that the same "know" used in knowing God is the one used when it says Adam "knew" Eve. I have no idea of what that intimacy looks like in the spiritual realm between God and I, but I feel like I am willing to spend the rest of my life finding out, you know?

Re: Revel In His Love

Elle — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:11:59 -0000

This brought tears to my eyes. Isn't it wonderful how even though we "know" the truths you've written, they can hit us fresh time and time again, because our hearts were made for them.

I never post anonymously on your blog (not trying to hide my identity from you, but I only so that I don't hurt my family. Not that I can ever even imagine them coming here as they are not believers, but you never know with the power of google search where they may land!). Anyway, just lately I've been asking God to also mother me. He's done such a beautiful job fathering me where I was never fathered properly, and it just recently occurred to me that he can mother me just as well. I'm looking forward to getting to know that side of Him (her, but Him, you know what I mean, as in the feminine side of God). Okay, this is getting trippy now, but I think you know what I mean. He really can be all things to us.

Thanks for the special words of love poured out through your post today.

Re: Killing It Softly

Elle — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:24:02 -0000

Wow, what a tune, what a voice, what lyrics. Thanks. I had never heard of her before this....

Re: When A Pastor Repents

Elle — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:38:23 -0000

I was recently talking to a friend about this very topic. Pastors in general only tell of their sins and struggles after they've "gotten the victory." Then they can tell you all about it, but not in the midst of the struggle. It's so sad. It keeps them isolated in a fierce and sick way. I know, hubby and I used to be there, and we had pretty strict instructions from the leadership "above" us about this very thing. It is so sick, it really is, and it's also so sad.

I love my freedom now, to just be able to be a mess whenever and wherever I want to, need to! It was exhausting always having to look like we had it all together :). I thank God those days are over for me.

Re: When A Pastor Repents

Elle — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:11:59 -0000

Jonathan, I had a lot more to say on this than I originally thought! I've done so here: http://tinyurl.com/5g23ez

I appreciate the thoughts your words often stimulate within my own heart.

Re: A Rising Standard Of Loving

Elle — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:49:25 -0000

One thing my DH and I have discovered is that we need to be persistently swimming upstream to cultivate a new relationship to things and money. It seems that nearly everywhere you turn the encouragement is to upgrade, more is better, bigger is better, gotta' have the latest music, new is better, you deserve it, etc.

We do things like read books out loud to each other, one chapter at a time, that encourage us to develop a new relationship to things and to money, so that our time and energies are more freed up for people. We've read Tom Sine's "Why Settle For More and Miss the Best" and "Your Money or Your Life" among others.

I don't think we're doing so great at some aspects of this transition, but we've changed by leaps and bounds in others. Last year we went from 12 acres to 2 acres and when we moved we downsized by 800 square feet. I keep telling myself it's a journey, one step at a time. Time is still the big issue in our lives....even with less stuff, we are still so short on the kind of time we'd like to have for people.

Re: A Rising Standard Of Loving

Elle — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:16:30 -0000

I feel like I didn't tie that comment together very well. I was trying to get at that we see that if we are focused on our standard of living rising, then people get left behind. So, for us one of the steps we've chosen to take is to focus on decreasing our standard of living in the hopes of freeing up time and money for others. It's much easier said than done....

Re: A One Year Reflection

Elle — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 13:53:48 -0000

Jonathan, here I am reading away on Saturday!

I am so grateful you began blogging. If you had not, I would probably have never heard of you or Thrive materials, would not be meeting with the group I do, and the list goes on and on.

Your blog has really created quite the domino effect in my life, and I don't think the pieces are even nearly done falling yet.

Happy one year, and here's to many more!

Re: The Limits Of My Love

Elle — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:07:38 -0000

Great post. I volunteered for quite a few years in a men's medium security prison. Many of the guys we met with weekly were pedophiles. As I got to know them and their stories, it was impossible to not love them and "forgive them their debts." It brought to mind Henry W. Longfellow's words: "If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in each person's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility." This really is true. It's not making an excuse for what they have done, but understanding that what they did came out of their brokenness, and that they need healing and restoration like every other human being on the face of our wildly spinning planet.

You've said it so well with this post.

Re: The Year Of Living Biblically

Elle — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:48:58 -0000

I read this book and it was so incredibly funny. It also showed how utterly ridiculous it is to try to keep the law(s) of God. Definitely a good and fascinating read, though I think some folks would be offended by much of the material within it.

Re: My New Favorite Song

Elle — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 06:09:04 -0000

Garrels always rocks it live on video, for sure. I like some of his earlier works better than this one, though it's still a great tune. I am always so disappointed by his CDs, though. It's like he gets in the studio and it gets all tamed down. Wonder why that is? He'd do great to put out a live performance recording, I think.

Re: A Movement Of People

Elle — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 06:26:13 -0000

Jonathan, your post reminds me of something I quoted from Capon a couple of days ago: "The model we're looking for should not have a tendency to steer in the direction of self-preservation rather than people-preservation...it must be able to love persons even at the price of hating itself. "

I believe that is one of things trying to come forth in this movement. Whether or not it does remains to be seen, but I have high hopes.

Re: Your Church Experience 2

Elle — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 14:32:13 -0000

I met with our Thrive group today, my "church." It was unbelievably enriching hearing the first narrative of the quarter. I feel like a pot of gold was poured into my heart today, sharing real LIFE with others.

Re: Going Beyond Fellowship

Elle — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:55:53 -0000

YES!

Re: Wholeness

Elle — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:35:13 -0000

Jesus was perfectly whole while He walked this earth and His life certainly was not free from conflict, so I think I'd have to say that wholeness is walking in love in the midst of all the conflict. Good question, it made me think and ponder for a bit.

Re: Question For The Ladies

Elle — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:02:38 -0000

No help from me. I'm 49 years old, and while I'm slim, there's no way I'm gonna' be wearin' a belly-revealing shirt! I look forward to reading what the young women have to say on this topic.

The guys showing their boxers with their pants half-way pulled down always make me laugh (and they make me want to give a good yank, just for fun, but so far I have managed to restrain myself!).

Re: Question For The Ladies

Elle — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:00:08 -0000

You just had to bring up the "S" word, didn't you, Jeromy?

Re: Question For The Ladies

Elle — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:42:31 -0000

Definitely not flocking toward him. You are a hard-core troublemaker, clearly. :)

Re: A Threatening God

Elle — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 19:45:46 -0000

Jonathan, I just wanted to say that I have learned as much from you (if not more) from reading your gracious comments to all types of people from a wide variety of backgrounds as I have from your posts. You truly amaze me with your grace and love as well as your refusal to engage in "debate."

It's rare in Christendom and I applaud you for it.

Peace,
Tracy

Re: Your Favorite Blog

Elle — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:26:19 -0000

Well, you already have most of my favorites, but here are two I'd recommend that aren't on your blog roll.

1. Letters from Kamp Krusty by Brant Hansen. He makes me laugh even when I disagree with him: http://branthansen.typepad.com/letters_from_kam...

2. Greg Boyd. It's not that I agree with all he says, and sometimes he's a bit "heady" for me, but he tackles very difficult topics with wisdom and intelligence that I don't find in often enough in blog-land. As an example of what I mean, read his article entitled "The Teleological Exegetical Principle and OT Violence" where he examines why a loving God would order mass slaughter of people in the OT when it seems so contrary to the love revealed in Jesus:
http://tinyurl.com/5l39k4 (he has other posts where he explores this topic in more detail, too). In other articles he tackles the topic of evil. He even wrote a three-part series on why he's a vegetarian (so am I, so I really enjoyed that). He covers a wide variety of topics.

His current blog is here: http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/ but the articles I especially loved of his are on his old blog here: http://gregboyd.blogspot.com/

I look forward to seeing what you end up adding to your blog roll down the line after everyone submits some of their favs.

Re: One Thing Meme

Elle — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 07:13:55 -0000

It's been a long, hard week, but I finally got around to this meme:

http://tinyurl.com/64empn

Re: The Lie Of Stuff

Elle — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:17:15 -0000

Jonathan, did you ever catch any of Brant Baciocco's journey? He decided to pare down his entire existence to only 600 things. He videotaped much of his journey of getting to that goal, some of it pretty funny stuff. He suddenly stopped blogging in December 2007, so I don't know if he gave up, or what, but it definitely inspired me to clean out all the things I don't use/need/want in my home. My one weakness, as you can imagine, is books. I don't think I could even get down to 600 books, let along "things!"

Brant's blog is here: http://www.600things.com/

Re: Waiting

Elle — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:33:10 -0000

I am sure tracking with you on this one, Jonathan. I recently had a wise man point something out to me: Waiting is one of the best tools God uses to produce deep humility in us. I've been mulling that one over a lot lately and finding great comfort in it.

Re: I Won’t Sin

Elle — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:52:28 -0000

What a wonderful line:

"It called me to be the Good News."

I long for that in my life, to be the Good News.

Re: Why I Read Blogs

Elle — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 16:01:57 -0000

Right back at you, brother. Now if you would just get in the will of God and move to the East coast, we might actually be able to have that conversation in person ;-). (Yeah, yeah, I know: I'm the one out of the will of God and am supposed to be living on the West coast....)

By the way, no latte for me; I'm a hot chocolate with marshmallows woman all the way.

Re: Your Sunday Experience

Elle — Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:24:57 -0000

My heart was deeply enriched and encouraged in my Thrive group today. That one sentence sounds so simple, but the time really packed a powerful punch!

Re: A Sign Of Truth

Elle — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 08:11:56 -0000

I can so relate to this. It seems so obvious once I've grasped a new facet of the Kingdom as it has been revealed. Even further, once I've walked in that new realization or revelation for awhile, I assume everyone else understands/sees it as well, and I'm always shocked to find out that isn't the case. I make myself laugh sometimes with how quickly I forget.

You'd think I'd remember that it was not that long ago that I didn't see it either, but it seems to be so quickly assimilated into my world view that it's hard to hold onto the memory of how I used to see, and to remember that others may still see that way as well. Then the fun begins: I love to share and watch other people get set free.

Re: A Sign Of Truth

Elle — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:28:11 -0000

That's interesting. I never seem to forget it. I don't mean I beat myself up over, rather that it's just always staring me in the face, popping up here and there as I go throughout my day. I think forgetting it would be a huge gift at times!

Re: The Prosperity Gospel

Elle — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 18:08:53 -0000

I used to fall under the charismatic label. Now I try to refuse all labels. However, even when I was a "charismatic," I always rolled my eyes at the whole "prosperity gospel" line of talking/thinking. It has always seemed ridiculous to me.

Re: Reflections On Obama

Elle — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:57:08 -0000

Jonathan, you'd probably really appreciate what Greg Boyd wrote today: http://tinyurl.com/5zfbvj

Re: A Pastor Abandons His Church

Elle — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:15:50 -0000

Hi, Daniel, I'm Tracy. There. Now you know at least one other person that does :-).

My hubby and I both were "pastors" who walked away from "ministry" in a church building (we were "associate pastors," not the "senior" pastor, just to clarify). It's one of the best decisions we ever made, though also one of the most difficult. It's been 11 years now and I've never looked back.

Peace to you on your journey....

Re: A Pastor Abandons His Church

Elle — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 08:25:12 -0000

Daniel, I hear you :). I'm so glad God stopped you!

Brian, that's so encouraging to read about what you're up to. I'll be following your story. I look forward to watching it all play out.

Re: God’s Creativity

Elle — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:31:06 -0000

As a vegetarian for over 30 years, I appreciated that they didn't show a McDonald's burger and try to tell me what body part that looked like :-). Yeah for fruits and veggies! I'm with your wife--I love studying nutritional things....

Re: The Funniest Thing I Heard Today Was

Elle — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:24:26 -0000

That may be the funniest thing I've heard all YEAR! The sad part, of course, is that many people really think that....it's why community is so great: You can only fool others for so long and the real beast appears!

Re: Your Sunday Experience

Elle — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:38:24 -0000

Mending Shift in your Blogroll reads as Mendshing Shift. Wish Jeromy were here to see it :).

I miss your gorgeous picture that was on your old blog....it was one of my favorites on any blog of all times! :-) Other than missing that, nice, clean new look!

Re: Your Sunday Experience

Elle — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 05:36:00 -0000

Nope! In 2009 I suspect I will, but not for now.

Re: Abandoning Conservatism

Elle — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 08:15:47 -0000

The timing of this post was great for me. I spent a lot of time yesterday, just before I read this, culling out all the STUFF I have that I don't need and use: Books, clothes, etc. I'm embarrassed to tell you how many pairs of mittens I found! Yes, I live in Vermont, but this was ridiculous. Anyway, it spurred me on to keep culling and give away all I do not "need."

I'd like to add that I don't think there's any great value or benefit in being poor or in being rich. As always, it's the heart's attitude toward what we have or don't have that counts. King David's heart was great before the Lord and he had lots of "stuff." The stuff is irrelevant, whether great or few, but our thoughts and intents about that same stuff can derail us pretty quickly, in either direction.

I've known people who lived very modestly and were so self-righteous about it that it would have been better for them to have lots of stuff and be humbled by it! I've also known very wealthy people who shared all that was theirs and their things didn't define them in any sense.

Re: The Great Emergence Day 1

Elle — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:13:09 -0000

Steve, I was thinking the same thing. So, I'll just echo your post with a "Hear, hear!"

Re: Interesting Stuff

Elle — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:04:10 -0000

The movie got some rave reviews: http://tinyurl.com/7qx95y

Re: Interesting Stuff

Elle — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:08:33 -0000

Sorry, but I have to add one more comment. Your wish list is PATHETIC, brother! Mine has 395 items in it :-)

I do have several of the books on your wish list if you ever want to borrow them. I love to lend them and many of my books have been all over the place. I do, however, write in them so if underlining and notes in margins bother you, you won't want to borrow them! Let me know if you want to know what I have.

Re: Interesting Stuff

Elle — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 06:52:26 -0000

I'll email you.....

Re: Interesting Stuff

Elle — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:13:39 -0000

I've swapped many books with fellow bloggers and I love it--only the cost of postage, and we do send the books back to each other.

You guys may want to check out a service already set up:
http://www.paperbackswap.com/index.php

I don't mean to use them, because in their case once you swap the book it's gone, not just borrowed. But they have a great way of doing you this and you may want to build your model on their concepts.

Or not :).

Re: Interesting Stuff

Elle — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:07:49 -0000

There's another movie on this as well, one that looks better than the previous link I gave above: http://tinyurl.com/8bs4ab

Just wanted to pass that on.

Re: You Can’t Be Saved

Elle — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:37:58 -0000

Josh, I just love, love, love the way you've expressed this here. I'm gonna' "steal" it at some point :-)...but I promise to give you credit when I do!

Re: Ugly Teeth/Big Nose Syndrome

Elle — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:57:32 -0000

My whole concept of beauty was radically changed last year when I was in a grocery store. Hard for me understand what happened, but it was like a veil was rent and for a few minutes I could only see every person there through the eyes of Love--and every single person--the "ordinary," the "beautiful," the "ugly teeth/big nose" people--became so stunningly gorgeous that I had to keep wiping away tears as I walked through the aisles. In a few minutes it was gone. I think it is His love that makes all things beautiful.

The only way I can even vaguely relate to it is that I have never, ever seen a dog (not even a picture of one) I did not find beautiful. Not even the ones that everyone else says are hideous looking. They are all so gorgeous to me. I think we are to God as dogs are to me: All of us gorgeous in the light of His love.

Also, I don't know why, but this post brought to mind the lyrics, "He was born to shimmer, born to shine...." http://tinyurl.com/d53v5r

Re: This Is How I Feel On Most Days

Elle — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 08:49:49 -0000

Love it. Thanks for this, just where my heart is at right now....

Re: Hope for a Tree Cut Down | Church of the Beloved

Elle — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:28:23 -0000

Any chance we could get the chords to this song? It's SO gorgeous! Thanks....

Re: Hope for a Tree Cut Down | Come Holy Ghost

Elle — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:29:30 -0000

Whoops...I put my other comment on the generic page, rather than here. This is the song I'd love to have the chords for if at all possible.

Thanks!
Tracy
mtinternet at gmail dot com

Re: I Need Your Help…

Elle — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 06:29:34 -0000

When we get done talking about hell, we can move onto talking about how tithing is not a NT biblical concept. Then we can move on to talking about women in ministry and discussing whether or not they should be allowed to teach men. Then we can move onto snake handling. There! That should keep boredom at bay for at least a day or two! Think of all the fights that could start! Ha!

:-)

Elle

Re: Emergent, Emerging, Modern, Postmodern, Orthodox, Heresy, Liberal, Conservative, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline, Evangelical, Good, Evil, Pagan, Christian, Tony Jones, John MacArthur, Brian McLaren...

Elle — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:16:04 -0000

Jeromy,
WOW! Have you given me some good food for thought. Brain circuits are sending up smoke right about now, a little on overload :-).

It's interesting because I recently had a conversation with someone where we had hit a point of conflict in our relationship. I was upset about our conflict, not the issue we were conflicting about. He made the statement to me that we both knew the bigger picture of one another, the other person's heart. So even if one of us acted out of line in a temporary manner, we would not judge the entire person by that one time because we saw the whole person. It made me be at peace while we worked the issue through to loving resolution.

That came back to me in reading your post. When we (I!) label someone, it's as though we won't look at the whole heart, but just a portion of them and say, "That's who they are" as if a label could sum up the person in their entirety. I also realized in reading this how much it can hurt to have labels inflicted on me as if they sum all of me up.

I've never seriously considered this topic before in this light. You've given me much to think on, ponder, and no doubt repent from! Thanks! I have to be honest and say that labels make my life very convenient, as if I could just package it all up neatly by knowing where someone "fits." It makes me feel icky to have just even written that last sentence, but it's true. It really is just another mind trick to try to keep my world in neat lines and give me some sense of control--yuck! I think it's time for a heart change within me. I'll keep you posted on how that goes....I think it's going to be quite a journey with some ups and downs as I stumble my way through this one:).

Re: Emergent, Emerging, Modern, Postmodern, Orthodox, Heresy, Liberal, Conservative, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline, Evangelical, Good, Evil, Pagan, Christian, Tony Jones, John MacArthur, Brian McLaren...

Elle — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 05:30:02 -0000

Jeromy, you wrote:
"Question: Do you suppose God operates in the realm of our labels and distinctions or above/beyond them? I struggle with this one…"

That question has made me think! It seems as if Jesus at times certainly did group people together and make statements about them (as in calling the Pharisees a brood of vipers, whitewashed tombs. He could have drawn a diagram-ha!). It seems God in the OT also sometimes defined people in VERY broad strokes (entire nations, for example), when surely there were exceptions to the "rule" of the label He was giving.

It seems that maybe labels in and of themselves are not the problem, but maybe the significance that we attach to them. Not that I'm pro-label as I've seen through this post how harmful it can be, but it seems there are times when it may be helpful, for example, to define what is happening in society as a whole, an entire cultural shift, for example; it can help us understand what is going on.

The caution, I think, is that we don't apply those labels and affix them so tightly to a person or a group, that they become THE defining thing about that person or that group, but rather are a vaguely helpful tool to help us understand a principle, movement, or general system of thought. I guess labels are like any other words we use: They can be helpful or harmful depending on the heart and intent behind them.

I've gotta' mull this over some more, but those are my ramblings for now!

Re: When PART is Mis-taken as WHOLE

Elle — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:04:58 -0000

Jeromy,

My husband and I had a wonderful, long talk last night about this post. We realized that some of the most hurtful things that had ever happened to us in church settings occurred in exactly this context you speak of. Being labeled as one thing alone, rather than looking at the whole person in context--ouch! And, frankly, we can see where we've done that to others time and time again. Lord willing, never again! :-)

Great post, so glad you took the time to write it!
Tracy

Re: Brennan Manning in Town

Elle — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:43:35 -0000

Like a breath of fresh air! Thanks for the quotes. I'll take anything of Manning's I can get my hands on.

By the way, I love your new picture on the top of your blog. The old one was nice, too, but this one is really beautiful!

Re: My Prayer…

Elle — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:45:37 -0000

I echo that prayer. I love being Daddy's little girl.

Re: God is Not a Balanced God, Quite the Opposite

Elle — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:43:25 -0000

You took my breath away with this one, Jeromy. Beautifully, wonderfully, outrageously said!

Re: [Update] How Much More in Jesus: Romans 5

Elle — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:55:29 -0000

Jeromy,
Oh, you brave man to tackle this topic :). I've studied this topic long and hard for the past four years. I've read the good, the bad, and the ugly. Your last sentence before the scriptures stated: "And God—despite declaring them loved and forgiven—will not force them to love him and I believe will honor their desire to not be in his presence." That's what this topic, ultimately, always seems to come down to: The free will of man. For me, Thomas Talbott has best summed it up in a short article called, "The Essential Role of Free Will in Universal Reconciliation." You can read it here:

http://www.willamette.edu/~ttalbott/freewill.html

He covers the topic much more thoroughly in his book (The Inescapable Love of God), but you can quickly see where he comes from in the article without needed to read the whole book for that one part.

Stephen Jones takes a very different approach, a rather fascinating one, I think, with the same end result as Talbott, but through a very different means. However, the booklet is 26 pages, so not everyone will want to read that much. If you do, you can read the .pdf file for free. It's called "Free Will Versus Ownership" and is found here:

http://tinyurl.com/2fyv7n

They both say it so much better than I could, so I'll leave it at that. I've just started to read The Evangelical Universalist, yet another interesting read on this controversial topic!

Re: [Update] How Much More in Jesus: Romans 5

Elle — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 07:33:59 -0000

Jeromy, I actually avoid the term universalist whenever I can because it means so many things that I don't believe. I prefer the term reconciliation because for me that's what this topic is all about: Will God in the end, through Christ, reconcile all of His creation back to Himself or not? (Colossians 1:19) It's a big question, one that requires some careful thought and study to come to an honest conclusion. I've been amazed at what I've uncovered in my studies. It's a bit like mining; I've had to dig through lots of dirt and have have many false starts (and there is some dreadful theology out there on this topic!), but in the end the jewels recovered are magnificent and worth the journey, so keep digging!

Re: 10,000

Elle — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:20:34 -0000

That's insane--10,000 hits! Congrats! :0)

Hard being unemployed....pray the right job comes into your life soon.

Tracy

Re: 10,000

Elle — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 05:32:33 -0000

Whoops, my comment was supposed to read, "I'm praying the right job comes into your life soon." The way it's written in my last comment it looks like I'm ordering you to pray! Not my style to order people to pray! ;-)

Re: 33 . . .

Elle — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:53:45 -0000

Happy Birthday, St. J.! Enjoy your day to the fullest!

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Elle — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 06:34:27 -0000

Jeromy, I think it is a precious thing that you are able to take a stand like this in such a graceful manner while "planting your flag." My hope is that any who may disagree with your stand will be able to respond with an equal measure of grace.

As you know, I plant my flag in the same place as you do.

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Elle — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 05:47:44 -0000

Matt S., you wrote: "Spending years feeling that I didn’t need to wrestle with these thoughts have made me comfortable in my theology…and I don’t think one should ever be comfortable in their theology…I think there should always be a healthy tension that drives one to go deeper." Do you think we could put that into liquid form and inject it into every Christian (I'll go first as the guinea pig!)? Think of the peace that would abound if we all embraced that mindset...fantastic!

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Elle — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:40:14 -0000

Jeromy and Matt, this one's for you: http://tinyurl.com/2wnf7w

Re: Here I Stand—On God’s Love for All

Elle — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:33:29 -0000

Jeromy, I could not agree with you more. I was recently telling someone that this certain person who I once considered to be the worst thing to have ever happened to me has become the greatest gift in my life. Without his actions against me, I would not have come to the place of brokenness that lets humility and joy spring forth! Isn't it great how in Father's hands ALL things will be used of Him for glory--either His or, at times, ours!

Re: God’s Truth and Our “Truth”—Two Perceptions

Elle — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:58:09 -0000

Jeromy, I'm afraid you have too much free time on your hands. I think you need something to do, so you are welcome to come to our home. Rich and I can find plenty to keep you busy. In fact, I just thought of the perfect job for you: A living scarecrow to keep the deer away from my plants. We had 22 deer in our yard/field last night, so this would be a very helpful thing you could do! You just need to stand out in my yard and flap your arms once in awhile when the deer get too close.

Seriously, though, I am a very visual person as well, so I loved all these illustrations, the last one especially. I think we are so arrogant when we think we have the corner on truth. I'll have to point people to these illustrations next time I'm in a dialogue with someone that thinks their theology is 100% perfect. :) We really do all see so dimly, don't we?

Re: God’s Truth and Our “Truth”—Two Perceptions

Elle — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:05:50 -0000

Jennifer, I do hope he's doing all the housework during his free time. Dishes, cooking, cleaning, you know? :-)

Re: Photography

Elle — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:57:06 -0000

These are gorgeous. The sheep one is my favorite!

Re: Broken

Elle — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 17:52:59 -0000

The timing of this post is wild! I just journaled this morning on this very topic. It is so, so, so, so true! Preach it, bro!

Re: A Safe Place to Experiment —Revolutionaries Synchroblog

Elle — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:44:25 -0000

This post says it so well, Jeromy. Safe space....just the words make me breathe deeper and calmer, you know? Yeah, you know! I'm realizing how blessed I am that I have a small circle of friends that are totally safe spaces for me. I pray our space can be ever-expanding!

Re: Ride Daddy’s Jeep

Elle — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:18:04 -0000

What a beautiful, beautiful analogy! I can feel the wind in my hair, whipping it all over the place. Just for fun, let's throw our hands up in the air and yell, "Whhheeeeee!"

Re: Ride Daddy’s Jeep

Elle — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:20:42 -0000

Yeah, well if Jonathan can read my diary, I should be able to have my camera hidden in your jeep!

Re: Ride Daddy’s Jeep

Elle — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 05:13:48 -0000

That leaves you as the only one who respects other people's privacy! Quit being such a holy man and jump into the mess with us. I'm sure there's someone you'd like to spy on in some manner, so just give in and do it. ;-)

Re: Ride Daddy’s Jeep

Elle — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 18:31:35 -0000

Jeromy, okay, I'm looking at my post above, and I have to say that I LOVE Wordpress because the awesome blog host can edit my comment to say whatever he wants it to say!! So, if you can please help me find my Persian cat, 'cause I'm missing it! By the way...you're words have changed my life and I love your blog! Rock on!

Re: Ride Daddy’s Jeep

Elle — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:29:00 -0000

Oh, man, you SICK-O! :-) Now, if I were the mean, vindictive type, I'd be editing your posts on my blog. However, we both know how much holier I am than you and that I would never do such a thing! Ha! Watch out in the future, Bubba: your words are in my hands!

Re: The Living Jesus—Beautiful and Untidy

Elle — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:24:59 -0000

So well said. Really, how dare Jesus mess with ME when it is clear that others need His help so much more than I do! ;-) Ha!

Re: Not “Going to” Church Anymore, But Gathering Instead

Elle — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:40:08 -0000

What a great way to say it! Wish I'd had this 10 years ago!

Re: Not “Going to” Church Anymore, But Gathering Instead

Elle — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:40:11 -0000

Yes, I would have! What you may not know about me, though, is that I walked out of the "institutional church" system 11 years ago. That's why 10 years ago would have been perfect! A dozen or so of us continued to meet together in our homes and people would always say, "What don't you go to church anymore?" I wish I would have known to have said, "We gather as the church at our homes."

Re: I Am Now Employed

Elle — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 06:36:45 -0000

Jeromy, I am so happy for you! Congrats! When you get a minute, do tell us what you'll be doing.

Re: What Is My Music—and Who Will Play It?

Elle — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:46:31 -0000

Jeromy, great post; it really got me thinking. I realize that in some areas I know my music quite well (happily married to hubby, love being his wife, for one example), but in others I feel like I'm still testing out the music. The fun thing is, I'm so willing to try any music right now: Jazz, alternative rock, tango, heavy metal and sure, even disco. :-) I'll try dancing to anything right now, just to see if it moves me, if it's the right music. I love the freedom with no boundaries to just listen....and see what starts my feet tapping!

It feels really good to not fear any music at all....

Re: Our Family Tree—God’s Love Found In Our Unity?

Elle — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:31:58 -0000

Look, mom, almost no scrolling to leave a comment here!

Nice, Jeromy, very nice!

Re: Our Family Tree—God’s Love Found In Our Unity?

Elle — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:10:37 -0000

Jeromy, yes that would be nice. Or maybe a matrix-like device that I could directly connect from your blog to my brain. It could "read" my brain response and just type it in for me.

I'd like half of your first million when you design this product, okay?

Re: My Tongue Hurts

Elle — Sun, 04 May 2008 07:04:33 -0000

That picture is truly disgusting! As a vegetarian, it is doubly truly disgusting!

Picture aside, though, I love what you've written. I, too, and learning more and more to just shut up and listen. To let my ears do the loving seems the greater path in many cases (and please, don't go putting a picture of an ear sandwich on your blog!).

Re: Daughter Painting With Ice Cream vs. Golden Retriever

Elle — Mon, 05 May 2008 08:26:08 -0000

Okay, so apparently you are on some type of "how gross can I get before I lose all my readers" kick. First tongue sandwiches, now this!

Well, as long as you don't post any pics of men in speedos, you won't scare me away. You can see what Pam H. pulled out of my husband here: http://tinyurl.com/4kqbwj

My deep, dark secret is now out in the open!

Re: Daughter Painting With Ice Cream vs. Golden Retriever

Elle — Mon, 05 May 2008 10:26:44 -0000

Let me clarify!

Dog: Cute!
Raspberry Sherbet: Wonderful.
Ashlyn: Very, very cute!

Dog saliva on Ashlyn's ice cream cone and then into her mouth: Gross!

Hope that clears things up. ;-)

Re: Daughter Painting With Ice Cream vs. Golden Retriever

Elle — Mon, 05 May 2008 12:01:42 -0000

Yes, I really laughed throughout the whole video. I'm a huge dog fan (I have two), so the whole thing was right up my alley!

Re: The Wonder of New Friendship

Elle — Fri, 09 May 2008 16:09:58 -0000

Thanks, Jeromy, because you know I'm trying to get my wish list up to over 300 books and it's so like you to always want to help out! Aaccckk! Seriously, though, these books look great and I'll be adding several of them to my wish list. Thanks for letting us know. I love discovering a new author!

Re: The Wonder of New Friendship

Elle — Fri, 09 May 2008 19:43:25 -0000

Very nice to know I can get personalized books :). I just ordered over a dozen books yesterday, so it will be awhile before my next order, but I'll keep it in mind when I go for it again!

Re: Speedos Versus . . . Well, You’ll Have to Read The Story

Elle — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:18:18 -0000

Love the story, and of course I also would rather see men in speedos than without! But I'll raise the bar higher and say I'd rather see them in "normal" swim trunks that speedos!

Re: Speedos Versus . . . Well, You’ll Have to Read The Story

Elle — Thu, 15 May 2008 05:44:41 -0000

"Normal" is (to use your terminology) when all of the fixins are hidden away!

Re: God and Sunday: From the Lips of a Seven-Year-Old

Elle — Wed, 21 May 2008 10:17:23 -0000

Oh, Jeromy, I feel your pain on that one! It reminds of the time a friend's child said as they were driving through Colorado, "Is this town a Christian town?" It's sad, isn't it, when our kids pick up on the all-too-common perception that there is a divide between the sacred and the secular.

I have no doubt you and your lovely wife will be able to eventually eliminate that perception in your kids!

Re: It Might Be A While…

Elle — Tue, 27 May 2008 16:32:35 -0000

Sorry to hear it Jeromy. It's awful when you have to get a new computer in a hurry. Hope you had a good backup system in place :).

Re: I Demand My Blog Back!

Elle — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:39:31 -0000

Whhooo-hoooo! Welcome back! And congrats on 10 years with your wife. Isn't marriage wonderful? I think it's one of the better things in this life. Now put down that wine and start making up for lost time on your blog!

Re: Purpose of A Mending Shift

Elle — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:20:02 -0000

Beautiful, Jeromy!

Re: Tadpoles?

Elle — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:18:36 -0000

In that case, an email is on its way to you right now!

Re: Tadpoles?

Elle — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:15:46 -0000

Jeromy, I read each and every post AND each and every comment on your blog. I just haven't been commenting too much anywhere. School work load got a bit intense for awhile and I've been wrestling with some thoughts on post I've been wrestling with...stuff that's making me sad in blog-land and I'm trying to respond from the heart, but it's taking me awhile to sort through it. You know how that goes....

Re: Tadpoles?

Elle — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:40:15 -0000

Nothing on my blog or its comments. Things I've been reading elsewhere. I'm feeling so sad that so many believers have NO idea of how to find life in Jesus. I mean zero idea. I keep crying and asking, "How can this be?" I'm a bit like Jeremiah with my tears at present on this issue and just need to wait for the right words to come....whether in six days or six years.

Re: Tadpoles?

Elle — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:38:53 -0000

Jennifer, we bow down and kiss your name on our screens for putting a halt to Jeromy's madness! Someone had to do it. Thank God you stepped in!

Re: So Here’s the Thing With Baby Names

Elle — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 05:21:22 -0000

I think it's a beautiful name! A keeper, for sure....

Tell your lovely wife to hang on. Scout has to make her grand debut very soon!

Re: When We Dream Together

Elle — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:22:28 -0000

Love the pics! Just one question: What are those three gorgeous women doing with scruffy dudes like you? :-)

Re: My Wife Was VERY Angry at Me Last Night!

Elle — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 05:46:01 -0000

I'm amazed you are alive to tell this tale!

Re: Where the Power Lies

Elle — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 10:59:01 -0000

Yo, BB's Dad, we are so tracking on the same thought today. Name of my post this morning? Following Jesus. I was thrilled when I read your post! We got our own little synchroblog going and no one even planned it :).

Re: Scout Savannah Johnson

Elle — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 08:10:00 -0000

Welcome to the world, Scout Savannah Johnson! Congrats, Jen and Jeromy. We're so happy for you!

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Elle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:21:49 -0000

Jeromy, before I comment any further I want to make sure I understand you: Do you believe that tithing is for New Testament believers?

Re: See What Happens When Weeds Get Pulled?

Elle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:15:29 -0000

Jeromy, oh my! You and my hubby have much in common :). A few weeks ago he was trying to give our lawn some nice clean edges and so he mowed down some "weeds" at the corner of my flower bed. It turned out to be my favorite peony plant! I can't be mad, though, he really thought he was blessing me! I'd suggest you buy some mammoth-sized watermelons when they come out in your local farmer's market to atone for your sin!

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Elle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:47:15 -0000

Okay, I hear you. I think, though, that you should use another word instead of tithe. It really does mean pretty much one thing to most people (you have to give 10% and if you do, God will bless you--gag!), and it's definitely old covenant thinking that we are no longer subject to.

Putting aside the usage of that term though, I just have one comment to make (well, for now-ha!): I think one of the greatest joys I had in walking away from the institutional "church" setting was learning how incredibly wonderful it is to give directly to those in need (whenever possible) as opposed to giving it to a "church" and having them decide where the money goes. It freed me up to hear the Holy Spirit for myself about how much to give, to whom, and when!. In essence if felt like it removed the old covenant "priest" as mediator. I no longer had to let someone else hear from God about where my money should go. I could hear for myself and give as extravagantly and joyfully as He directed with no "middle man" deciding for me where the money would be best used. Even if it went overseas and I never saw the people, it was still something I felt I had heard and I always had such joy giving like that. Still do!

I just think people are tired of third-party mediators and it's showing up in their giving, or lack thereof.

I'm not saying I'm against giving to the local place people attend services. Hey, if you go there and partake of what they're offering, then support it in whatever way you led to. But I often wonder in looking back how much more extravagant would the giving have been if we had been told of great places to directly give our money to, rather than dumping it into an offering plate and letting someone else decide that for us. Imagine if every week a different need were highlighted! Wow--local needs, international needs, etc. Some we might be led to give to long-term, others, just once in awhile, etc. Information could be given about how to send the money directly there if the person so desired or it could be channeled through the local service meeting place (I will not use the word church!) if people would prefer it. I think these options would dramatically increase people's joy in giving.

These are just my random, brainstorming thoughts, so they may be worth very little! I'll probably regret hitting the "submit comment" button as soon as I've done so as these are pretty "uncooked" thoughts. Treat them as such!

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Elle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:55:09 -0000

Great thoughts stirring around, Jeromy. I also have to realize that not everyone wants to hear for themselves where to give (and then sometimes to research as well, to be sure it's going to a great place), and they might welcome someone else taking their money and giving it where it is best used. I just have certain passions for places I love to give to, so it delights me to be able to do so. Wonder of wonders, not everyone is like me :).

As to your question: Tithing is just not biblical for us new covenant folks, so I don't really like to see it used in that context. I spent a long time studying this before I felt free to stop tithing and to start giving extravagantly as led to do so. I probably should blog on this at some point, but for now you can at least read two posts that I reference on my blog (one by Aida and one by Joel) here at the bottom of this post: http://tinyurl.com/6lsvcx. I especially like what Aida says about how it robs us of relationship. I really believe that is true, and it's one of my main objections to people thinking they still need to tithe.

Re: See What Happens When Weeds Get Pulled?

Elle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:57:52 -0000

Peonies are gorgeous! They have these large, fragrant flowers that are so heavy they droop down to the ground. I always think of how I want my worship to be toward God when I look at peony flowers, bowed down on the ground exuding the most incredible fragrance! You leave my peonies alone!

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Elle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:16:39 -0000

Jeromy, you've brought up another point that I have not even thought of. When I said "relationship" I meant between the giver and God. We need to hear Him, learn to know His voice, and let our giving come from our hearts as it flows out of relationship with Him. I had not even considered the relational aspect of giving as far as the person we are giving to, but in looking back, that also has been profound in my life.

This dialogue is really helping me sort things out!

Re: Why Are People Giving Less to Churches?

Elle — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:43:18 -0000

You wrote: "I am glad I can help sort out the mess in your mind. Perhaps when your done, you can help me sort my mess."

I would not even dream of trying. I like your "mess" just the way it is!

Re: Imprisoned for Assualt?

Elle — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:33:23 -0000

Oh, man, what have you been thinking lately? Come on, open up the top of your head and let some of it spill out :).

Re: Imprisoned for Assualt?

Elle — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:46:28 -0000

Jeromy, ah, yes the wrath and judgment of God....now you've made it all perfectly clear ;-). Ha!

Yes, I agree, none of us will ever experience total "freedom" from this before we die. I do think, however, that we can greatly decrease the amount of negative noise in our heads. It seems like the more I grow in grace and His acceptance, the less I do that anymore. Now when it comes, it is brief and fleeting. I fling it at the cross and I'm done with it. I used to wallow in those thoughts and I just refuse to do that any more! Brennan Manning has helped me greatly with this when he talks about how tender we need to be with ourselves. That word really helped me see how I need to treat myself (easy to see it's how to treat others, but much harder for myself, as you know!). So, be tender with yourself, little lamb! (And please remind me of this next time you hear me doing the same stuff.)

Re: Where the Hell is Matt? (when all will dance)

Elle — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 13:50:08 -0000

I thought of the same thing, Jeromy. Every tribe, nation, tongue all dancing together! It brought tears to my eyes when I first saw this video a few weeks ago and it hasn't lessened at all seeing it again now.

Re: The Evolution of Dance

Elle — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:13:11 -0000

You have way too much time on your hands and I want the last six minutes of my life back!

Re: Where Does Conflict Come From?

Elle — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 06:25:17 -0000

Andrea,
I would love to dialogue with you via email. My email is on the main page of my blog (click on my name, above, and it will take you there) under the "contact me" box in the right-hand column. If you're so led, please shoot me an email!
Thanks,
Tracy

Re: Christians Aren’t Perfect . . .

Elle — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 06:38:43 -0000

Shortly after I read this post I saw a bumper sticker that said: RELIGION KILLS. Now there's a conversation starter!

Re: Johnson and Johnson Gets Tough…

Elle — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:13:19 -0000

Oh, you sick puppy! Made me laugh, though!

Re: Possession, The Death of Love

Elle — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 05:58:54 -0000

Such gorgeous thoughts, Jeromy. Very enriching to read.

Re: Why I Am So Proud of My Wife, My Bride

Elle — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:54:22 -0000

Bubba, you just rocked it with this post! Now I'm so proud of you for being so proud of Jen. :) I have no doubt that you blessed your wife (http://tinyurl.com/3or69c) big time by posting this!

Just a gorgeous post that demonstrates the love of God in action. Made my day, thanks to both of you for your lovely hearts.

Re: Happy Birthday Jen!

Elle — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:19:51 -0000

Happy Birthday, Jen! (And nice job, Jeromy, not broadcasting her age to the world!)

Re: Happy Birthday Jen!

Elle — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 06:17:29 -0000

Oh, so busted, Jeromy! I can only assume Jen isn't sensitive about her age if you put it out there. Not all women are, you know. I'm 49. There, now Jen can feel really good as she's nowhere NEAR that old ;-).

Re: Happy Birthday Jen!

Elle — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:02:43 -0000

Are you saying I'm immature?

Hmmmm, looks like I'm looking for a new friend, too. Sampson, since you've been released, how about you and I become friends?

Jeromy, keep this up and you'll be friendless before 2009 rolls in.

;-)

Re: Happy Birthday Jen!

Elle — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:22:40 -0000

Made me laugh out loud, Bubba!

Re: Jesus Laughed

Elle — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:45:49 -0000

I have that picture hanging in my office. I just love it!

So glad you're off of testosterone-loaded posts about train derailments and off-road stuff :-) Ha!

Re: Can We Vote Already?

Elle — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:01:01 -0000

Yeah, but the two women at either end of the photo sort of gave it away that it couldn't be :-).

Re: Can We Vote Already?

Elle — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:29:10 -0000

Ain't that the truth, brother!

Re: Blog Warming Party!

Elle — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 06:43:01 -0000

Jeromy, very snazzy, bro! It really looks great.

My favorite thing, by far, is the way I don't half to scroll down a half a mile or so in order to leave a comment :-).

Congrats on your new "home!"

Re: Keep The ‘Hawk or Cut the Hawk?

Elle — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 07:13:33 -0000

That is seriously creepy. Cut the 'hawk!

Re: Keep The ‘Hawk or Cut the Hawk?

Elle — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 12:30:57 -0000

Made me laugh out loud, Mr. J.! Now I can only hope that image leaves my head very, very soon....a 'hawk and a speedo, yeah, now THAT's creepy.

Re: Hope vs. Fear

Elle — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 05:47:18 -0000

Jeromy, when I got up this morning and saw that Obama had won, that is exactly the thought I had: People are desperate for hope. It makes me sad to realize that the church has done such a horrifically poor of job of spreading hope through the good news....

Re: My Dad Just Called…

Elle — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:06:20 -0000

How wonderful! Made my day to read this.

Re: Vacation

Elle — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:38:05 -0000

I hope you guys have a wonderful, relaxing, bonding time!

Re: Here, Jesus, Take My Shoes

Elle — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 08:09:26 -0000

John, Jeromy is on vacation so that's why you're not getting a speedy reply :). He did the header himself--isn't it gorgeous? He does graphic design work and web page work, as you can plainly see!

Re: A Kingdom Economy

Elle — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:51:09 -0000

I found it online here, in .pdf format:

http://www.worldwisdom.com/uploads/pdfs/96.pdf

:)

Tracy

Re: A Kingdom Economy

Elle — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:51:44 -0000

P.S. Jeromy, isn't it great to have such a wonderful secretary at your disposal?

Re: A Kingdom Economy

Elle — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:19:51 -0000

Do you think you're man enough for the snow? :-)

I think last year we got over 90 inches throughout the winter. Leave them speedos behind, Bubba, 'cause you won't be needing them here!

Re: Updated Commenting

Elle — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:54:21 -0000

Whooo-hoooooooo! :)

Re: Catastrophe Avoided

Elle — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:14:14 -0000

I really like these colors! :)

Betcha' you'll back up your blog from now on, huh, Bubba?!

Re: Leave a Video Comment — An Invitation

Elle — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 08:29:00 -0000

Jeromy, I just wanted to say that your voice sounds EXACTLY like what I thought it would. Very fun! Jonathan, on the other hand, does not sound on the video how he does on the phone--what's up with that? Must be the ear piece is affecting his brainwaves in the area of speech....

Re: Leave a Video Comment — An Invitation

Elle — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:04:09 -0000

It's a good thing, your voice: Very warm, open, and inviting!

As to me: Well, you have most of the picture right. We definitely have a roaring fire going at the moment and it's beautiful. But you left out the two dogs that tend to be glued to my side when I'm front of the fire. They're older dogs and the heat feels good to their bones! I do love the Wilson image though--very funny!

Believe it or not, I'm hardly reading at all these days, often not even a full page a day, sometimes not even a paragraph. So, the book would be absent from the video!

Re: Our Best Christmas Ever

Elle — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:19:29 -0000

That made me cry, Jeromy. So utterly incredible....thanks for sharing. It just made my Christmas to read this!

Re: O Night Divine (or not)

Elle — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 07:25:48 -0000

So glad to see you spreading the Christmas cheer! Someone has to do it--why not you?

Re: O Night Divine (or not)

Elle — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:00:34 -0000

Jim, I subscribe to his feed. Love his posts on grace, but his singing like that was a first. Glad it made you laugh. My hubby was howling with laughter and every time I thought he couldn't laugh any harder, he would. Did my heart good to watch/hear that!

Re: Advent with Ted the Loser (from Jesus Shaped Spirituality)

Elle — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 18:01:09 -0000

I so loved the loser line because one of my all-time favorite quotes from anyone is when R.F. Capon talks about how all we have to do to receive God's immense grace is to be one of the lost, last, least, or lifeless (he says dead, but I like to keep in line with the other "L" words!). Loser is now added to this list as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Advent with Ted the Loser (from Jesus Shaped Spirituality)

Elle — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:15:43 -0000

Nope, not in this context! :)

Re: Animal Cookie Grace

Elle — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:05:30 -0000

Jeromy, this is wild: I've been with my husband for many years (coming up on 25 years of marriage in March) and never once has he ever brought me home animal crackers from the store (nor do I think I have ever bought them for myself!). On the day you posted this I read it and was deep in thought about it on and off throughout the day. That afternoon Rich walks in the door and hands me a box of animal crackers, exactly like the ones pictured above!

I had not talked to him about this post nor had he read it yet (he will today!).

Isn't that wild? I've just left the box sit on the kitchen counter, a nice reminder. Fun, huh?

:-)

Re: Animal Cookie Grace

Elle — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 19:36:54 -0000

Derek, well, they're not really cookies! If they had more sugar or were covered in chocolate, that would be a different story ;-). But being crackers...yawn! (Plus, hubby also brought home Oreo cookies, M&Ms, and great ice cream, so the animal crackers aren't much of a temptation!

Re: Animal Cookie Grace

Elle — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 20:12:05 -0000

That's what is so funny: We normally eat very healthy, vegetarian diets, but lately we've both been craving junk food and Rich just went more than a little wild at the grocery store! I'll be cleaning out the cupboards soon and we'll be back to our healthy eating once again. I have to run for now because the Oreos are loudly calling my name ;).

Re: The War is Over

Elle — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:33:45 -0000

Chad, your comment brought something to my mind: The other thing that I read about this story when I first heard it years ago was that it took quite awhile for this man to believe the war was over. They had to repeatedly make contact with him (like dropping pamphlets that he'd find in the jungle, etc.) before he believed it was true. I wish I could remember the details, but I even think some of his own family (or maybe it was former fellow soldiers?) had to go out to try to convince him. In any case, this always gives me great hope even for those who are initially very resistant to the truly great news of God. Sometimes people need to repeatedly hear the truth before their hearts can rise up and believe it.

Re: The War is Over

Elle — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:18:49 -0000

That is great, Jeromy, thanks for posting the full story.

I love how none of the efforts that went into trying to convince him worked, and he only believed once he heard from his commander. Two scriptures came flying into my mind:

John 6:44a: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him...."

and

John 12:32: "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

We can tell the truth all we want, but ultimately it's the commander who has to do the drawing. I love that!

Re: Brown Eyed People Are Stupid

Elle — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:42:36 -0000

Yeah, made me cry. Thanks for letting us know about this. My husband's in education....I'll be passing this one along to him.

Re: Brown Eyed People Are Stupid

Elle — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:28:45 -0000

He works in the high school in our town, with 8th to 12th graders, special education. He also works as a behavior supervisor, which means any kid that gets in trouble in a classroom gets sent to him (a rather high stress job in my book!).

I would be very, very wary of letting just any teacher do this exercise, though. It could be so damaging to the students if not handled properly, but I sure would love to see every teacher be required to undergo this process. I hate racism with a passion, so this really hit a nerve in me, in a very good way.

Re: Brown Eyed People Are Stupid

Elle — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 15:56:38 -0000

I don't know the answer to that question, Jeromy. I've passed the video link on to Rich and it will be interesting to see what he has to say about it. I know he'll share it with his fellow educators.

Re: Obama’s Grande Triple-Shot Latte Inaugural Speech

Elle — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:03:31 -0000

Interesting. The newscasters yesterday were saying Obama wrote his own speech with only a little help/input from his speechwriters. I wonder which is true?

In any case, I sat there crying like a baby when I heard that it was slaves who had built the White House. I never knew that. No matter who people voted for or didn't vote for, yesterday was a remarkable, incredible, long overdue day.

Re: Thoughts on hell and speaking responsibly about it

Elle — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:42:11 -0000

Josh, have you read the book Hope Beyond Hell? It has given me MUCH food for thought on this topic. I have an extra copy I'd be happy to send to you if you'd like it. I think you'll find it fascinating--I sure did!

Re: The Biggest Questions So Far

Elle — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:38:31 -0000

Just wanted to say that I really appreciate the email reminders, so do keep them coming! Thanks!

My biggest question is all about marketing the product I do. I'm especially interested in targeting stay-at-home moms with my product, but have zero idea how to go about doing that without spending a small fortune in advertising.

Thanks for the great info. to date!