Dave
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9 months ago
in A Mountain of Bones: Being White in USAmerica on the Jesus Manifesto
I happen to have friends 'of color'. One is a talented musician who has quit going to church because the black churches tell him he is a victim, and the white churches he's gone to bend over to constantly fawn over him: Repenting for the past, talking about 'diversity' now that they had their token black person. He wants to be treated like a Christian, like a man, not a poor victimized black.
To quote MLK: The ultimate measure of a person is not where they stand in moments of comfort and convenience, but where they stand in times of challenge and controversy.
So, do you make the stand on what has been done wrong, or do you 'man up'? Do you let life pass you by, or fall to show up, because your waiting for someone to come along and...what, give you a free ride? Or do you forgive and move on? If I waited for the people who have done me wrong to come around and 'repent', I'd have never grown as a Christian.
To quote MLK: The ultimate measure of a person is not where they stand in moments of comfort and convenience, but where they stand in times of challenge and controversy.
So, do you make the stand on what has been done wrong, or do you 'man up'? Do you let life pass you by, or fall to show up, because your waiting for someone to come along and...what, give you a free ride? Or do you forgive and move on? If I waited for the people who have done me wrong to come around and 'repent', I'd have never grown as a Christian.
2 replies
Tanden
I really don't know what the MLK quote has to do with what you are saying.
I live in a nieghborhood where the average family of 3 lives on $13,000 or less a year. so these issues are not just some issue to me but they are peronal and real. It is not about us wanting a free ride but us wanting those who have to do the right thing.
And to be honest with you, as you continue to tell us to just work harder to just move on, we will move on, we will grow, we will continue to love each other and try to make ends meet. the question for those who have is where they are going to grow and start doing the right thing.
I live in a nieghborhood where the average family of 3 lives on $13,000 or less a year. so these issues are not just some issue to me but they are peronal and real. It is not about us wanting a free ride but us wanting those who have to do the right thing.
And to be honest with you, as you continue to tell us to just work harder to just move on, we will move on, we will grow, we will continue to love each other and try to make ends meet. the question for those who have is where they are going to grow and start doing the right thing.
9 months ago
in A Mountain of Bones: Being White in USAmerica on the Jesus Manifesto
Personally, I enjoy my status as a privileged white male. My status was evident with the fine single wide trailers I grew up in, the dirt floors and lack of running water in one of the house we lived in, my fine community college education, the fact that I didn't own a car that was less than ten years old until I hit my thirties...
When a White person prospers, he had it all handed to him. When he fails, it was his own fault. He was lazy, stupid, or any other derogatory adjective. When a "oppressed minority" fails, it was the white mans fault.
When a White person prospers, he had it all handed to him. When he fails, it was his own fault. He was lazy, stupid, or any other derogatory adjective. When a "oppressed minority" fails, it was the white mans fault.
1 reply
markvans
Things can be generally true without being specifically true. You can struggle to rise out of white-trashness in a society of white privilege. I can acknowledge the overall trend that benefits whites over other groups without taking away from the struggles and problems of individual whites.
Some of this stuff is dependent upon where you grow up and other things. I have to recognize, that as much as I've found success in life through my own efforts, that the system favors my whiteness. And my maleness.
Some of this stuff is dependent upon where you grow up and other things. I have to recognize, that as much as I've found success in life through my own efforts, that the system favors my whiteness. And my maleness.
To be honest, I think what you are saying comes off as a bit caloused.
Let me make an analogy. Let me say my grandfather killed your grandparents and then took over your farm, forcing your father and his family to make it on their own.
The farm passes to my father, and then to me. And let's assume that the farm is worth millions. Do you or your family have any claim? If so, when do we draw the line that says that descendants have no claim on any of that wealth?
Let us take it a step further. Let us say that you go to church with me. I am the farm owner. And let us say that because of the wrong done to your grandfather, your father's weakness and sin grabbed a hold of him and he became an alcoholic. And let us say that that resulted in a shitty upbringing for you to the extent that you had the deck stacked against you?
What are the obligations I have to you? Which are based upon the wrongs of the past? Which are based upon my kinship to you now as a fellow Christian in the present? Which are based upon common decency?
My hope is that this analogy will help to get some clarity on the issue. Maybe not much, but hopefully some.
Is there a place for the Bill Cosby-esque message of: "Don't stay a victim; take a hold of the situation and make it better for yourself?" Yes. There is. But that message isn't the whole story. And, I'm not trying to pick on you, but it doesn't mean a lot coming from you. Your statements tend towards justifying your views and defending yourself. Not once have you seemed to recognize anything worthwhile in anything else anyone has said in this whole conversation. That is, by definition, "knee-jerk." There is wisdom in what you say, but it isn't the full wisdom. One can realize taht there is more at play than a person's character. The Bible is chock-filled with all sorts of stories where the descendants pay for the sins of the ancestor. Nations are wiped out. Sin comes to fruit. Debts are collected.
Where is the balance between personal responsibility and a recognition that we all enter into the world with baggage that we did not choose for ourselves?