DISQUS

Mike: All great points. When I talk about pricing, I don't literally mean individual price tags. As you mention, this would probably create more problems than solve.

I just mean to have a ball park range, as I do on my quote form. Having a minimum figure on the quote form is useful to deter the $75 crowd.

Also why I have price bands. It's then up to the client how much they want to invest and ultimately get out of the project.

NAGFA: totally appreciate you're feedback here. You were quite right with the bridge, obvious now when you look at it. Have now changed the design to make it 100% either way.

Love you're site and you're portfolio, been looking at them all this morning. Very talented and creative designs there.

LUC: Thanks for the comment, I have now created a revised version, which I hope makes the individual letters more obvious. Noticeably, adding space between the 'i' and 'j'. What do you think now? :)

MAX: Yeah, it's fun. And I am getting there, slowly. I feel I will actually settle on an ambigram version for the my logo, so now its playing around with the styles to see what better suits. :)

MARTINALEJANDRO : Thanks for the well thought out reply. I totally see what you are saying.

This is something I have thought about a lot. Previous my identity has been a bit of a 'sleeper' in terms of the type only logo etc. My personal brand seems to be stronger than the logo, which is why I wanted to draw upon the success of my beanie and shades, dark and mysterious vibe.

People connect with that. So the logo was trying to flip the dark photographic avatar with a cartoon version of me, to balance the mood out so to speak, whilst still retaining a clear link.

I have kept the logotype sensible and stylish to also balance out the cartoon effect of the icon.

It's early days, so need to live with it for a while, but thanks for the comment, totally spot on.

Max & Misty : Really appreciate you both dropping by. You are both totally right about the beard aspect, so have made some changes to the initial drawing and will post that later.

Thanks again

Pepsi would have been better off going to get some clip art in this case. :)

The whole point with effort+result is that to get the 'result', 'effort needs to be paid for, which is pretty much same as time. As long as the time you spend working is genuine. When a client asks for a cheap logo, then they are making the assumption that not much effort is needed to create it.

If I said what my 'real' hourly rate was, and say multiply that by 4. That would easily overshoot the typical £150 plus bargain basement logo. 4 hours or so on a logo does not typically give you a well thought out, well researched appropriate brand.

Agencies take a minimum of 2 months to create a full brand identity.

So even if a logo designer charged say, £400, thats still woefully underpriced if you want a well rounded identity.

A cheap logo, or clipart or going to one of the many online logo factories and paying $50 is fine if yo don't care for uniqueness or an identity that is personal and meaningful.

If you need to take your business seriously, if you want professional clients to take you seriously, then a good solid identity DOES take time and that equates to a whole lot of hours.

It is educating clients that logo design is not ultimately a cheap and quick process if you want the real thing. But many clients want the best by outlaying very little.

And many designers will fall into this just to earn some money, not they fault, its the economy and a need to survive, but is does no good in the long run.

LIndsay : yeah, it's one of those things that I feel DOES need to be repeated. Its educational at the heart of it. If you don't tell the client these things, then how are they meant to know?

It is our job to inform as much as possible.

MATT- reference is to the main title 'objectified' rather than the symbols.

Some people (including me) initially just assumed it was set in Helvetica, without looking closely, as per Helvetica Movie. When in fact its set with the similar BertHold Akzidenz font.

Good job it wasn't arial or univers. That would have been embarrassing for all concerned.

Set in berthold akzidenz grotesk i believe :)

JUSTIN--> The need for money when you are starting out cannot be ignored. Im not so much advocating it as ' the only way' but more as a option to not be scared of using.
From personal experience, taking on a job out of desperation, and a job which im not ideally suited for only brings misery.

And misery in a job usually means you can't put your heart into it. And if you are getting paid to do a good job, then there are possible moral professional implications there.

So just be aware really.

SNEH--> Im not one for elitism in any area and its easy for logo designers to feel their own work is not up to standard given the often close proximity of the more established designers.

Im very much a open person when it comes to feelings and what's on my mind, and don't much care if I make a fool of myself. :)

So posts like this are refreshing for me because it allows me to say what's on my mind, and sometimes things that you may not hear elsewhere.

:)

Also David, Im very much a type orientated designer. Having been taught the basic letterpress form of printing when I was working after school at the local printers, then working on rudimentary typesetting consoles etc, I feel a natural affinity to creating logos out of type.

I was forced to use clip-art almost evert day whilst working at various commercial printers due to time and budget limitations. And any logo that requires a form of cliche illustration always reminds me of clip art. Just a throwback from years gone.

I feel that many logos are tainted by icons marks that 'could' be clip art. Even if they are not, thats my memory of them. So where ever possible, my logos are type driven with minimal 'embellishments' where possible. Prefer to create a logomark from letters than a graphic. Find that much more satisfying. ;0

David-> Yeah, I mostly mean when there is a specific rule set by the client 'must look like a 50 year anniversary' emblem when In my head, something cleaner and fresher would be a better idea.

I already have had 20+ years of taking orders from sales reps and clients who insist they know what is best. when you work for a companies like I have, then your 'voice' is not heard.

Now, being a freelancer, I can set my own rules and do what I feel is right for me and my client. However, if there is a conflict of interests, in that the client, from the outset is setting the rules, then I have been known to 'walk away'. Politely suggesting they find someone else who is happy to do as ordered, rather than being open to some sturdy advice.

But also David, I am not a fan of circular emblem 50 year anniversary logos. I find them uninspiring for the most part and have always struggled to design anything I am happy with. SO now I just dont take on any work that has set styles enforced by the client which I don't feel comfortable doing.

There are many styles of 'container' type logos that I do love doing, its just the specific anniversary style. If that makes sense.

I'll stick to the styles I love doing and feel I'm good at. Hat's off to those that are truly adaptable and are happy designing any style, Im just not one of those people.

So yeah, your last para, is spot on. They don't really need a logo designer, they need someone who is good with illustrator to just create what is in the clients mind. LIke I said, I have had over 20+ doing what other people have told me to design, now Im free of those shackles...

Yay.

Thanks for the props. I have more posts like this on the way, just don't want to duplicate the many number of posts on logo design, hard to be unique nowadays.

Alan--> Thanks, hope you get some use out of it. I would say the most important is brushing up on the commercial print aspect, as this can be the biggest downfall for any designer who is more atuned to web design etc.

Name : Graham Smith
Behance URL : http://www.behance.net/imjustcreative
Creative Fields : Branding, Logo Design, Design

Bio : Logo & Brand Identity Designer. 20+ years experience. Freelance design, typography, marketing, social media, art. LovePhotography. LoveHelvetica. LoveDogs.

The winner this time round is : Llian @lilula Congrats to you.

Time Is Up. Soz.

Karyn-> Not sure I fully understand the ethical debate. I showed the mother the photo and she was delighted with the pictures I had taken. Had she not been then I would not of taken it further.

Do you really think I am being irresponsible for posting a 'safe' and 'respectable' portrait that only shows the smiling head of a child?

Are you are going in the direction of posting pictures of children in bathing suits?

Richard, Simon and Anne> Appreciate your other recommendations and I am just adjusting this list to include the others. Thanks.

Times up ladies and gentleman.

Results to be drawn now.

Interesting to hear the conflicting views on one photograph, curious to hear both sides.

Im not a trained professional, merely a enthused amateur, but I do feel I have a gift for natural composition, doesn't have to fit in with text book theory... I doo things my way. If I like the end result then that's good enough for me.

If others like it then great...

But its nice from time to time to share. I dont want to get pigeoned hole as a logo designer, as I do have many other interests and 'talents' so this post was just a small reminder about other aspects of my creativity.

DOUG> Wasn't aware I was making anyone do anything. No searching required, the ID's are all there. The only thing I didn't do was to make them direct links, which I have now done.

Is this what you mean?

Appreciate the kind words, I am really quite proud of this photo, which probably is obvious. I have some more I am working on that I hope to be able to show on IJC at some point.

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