DISQUS

Much love and respect to "b/"! My research discovered much of the same problems with pulling verses out of context.

Another aspect to consider is that God repeatedly refers to us as His "children". There is no way that what that implies is an oversight on His part. Here's what I mean...

If I have a son, and that son runs off and lives like an absolute degenerate... is he still my son?

If he dies as an absolute degenerate... is he still my son?

Of course he is! God says that we have been "adopted" by Him. That is the most accurate picture of the beautiful grace of God.

In case we all haven't figured it out by now, God's grace is ridiculous. It's illogical. It's unfair.

If we're honest, I think we'd realize that many of us desire it to be true that we could lose our salvation because it would give us a greater role in the salvation process and would ensure that no "bad" people go to Heaven. Firstly, the NT makes it clear that Christ's work on the Cross was designed to ensure that "none may boast" and every ounce of glory would go to Jesus Christ. We should tread extremely carefully when it comes to claiming a bigger role in salvation than we have...

We also like to think that somehow we're "better" than other people (e.g. those who have "fallen away") and that plays a role in us getting to Heaven. We can't fully process that a believer who falls away and becomes a rapist would still go to Heaven. It doesn't sit right with our idea of justice.

The brutal and glorious truth is that there is nothing "just" about our salvation - we don't deserve it even one ounce more than the worst person who ever lived. Tying our behavior to our salvation is way around that "problematic" piece of theology...

Sarah - what could possibly be MORE important than ensuring we are accurately interpreting the Scriptures?

This very type of discussion was constantly taking place in and around synagogues and the temple during the time of Christ. In fact, Jesus Himself regularly engaged in conversations exactly like this!

Why? Because He wanted to ensure that He laid out true theology with clarity. I would imagine that nothing would dismay our Savior more than to see us have a flippant attitude about interpreting the Scriptures!

Also - just because discussion is passionate, doesn't mean it's negative. If there was ever a subject that we SHOULD be passionate about - wouldn't our theology be it?

The key is every poster being genuinely interested in TRUTH and not just winning the argument...

I agree with Brandi. All of us have tons of love for Vicki but I'm sure she would be the first to admit she doesn't have it all figured out (none of us do!).

I'm also 110% confident that Vicki would never imply that she's correct because of a piece of paper (degree)!

I'm sure this will be taken out of context but it' sour individual responsibility to know our Christian theology and research it FOR OURSELVES. One of the biggest challenges to accurate Biblical theology is the epidemic of believers whose entire theology is second-hand (i.e. they heard it from someone else).

On matters like this, don't EVER just go on someone else's word - research it for yourself. The Bible even explicitly tells us to test these types of issues against the Word FOR OURSELVES.

I'll post more thoughts in a while but first off, a strong case could me made for tossing out all of the OT verses (as it relates to this specific subject). Christ's death on the Cross completely changed the salvation "equation" and one could very easily see how those verses may no longer apply. Are they valuable? Of course! But they're there to show us how hopeless things were before the Cross.

I would also encourage you to look at the verses and research which ones apply to Israel and not to Christians. The Israelites were (and still are) God's chosen people but they "departed" form Him by refusing accept Jesus as their Savior. This is a completely different issue to believers losing their salvation. Additionally, the Lord promises to bring Israel back to Himself in the last days.

I need to do more research before I comment on the rest of the verses. The Judas question is easily the most interesting point to consider.

Finally, I don't think the discussion can be considered completely serious until the original language in each verse has been considered. Putting such weight onto a word like "departed" isn't really accurate unless the original meaning of the word has been researched (as it may translate slightly differently).

There's never a bad time for a theological discussion!

Despite Carlos' all-out attempt to get the Buckhead Creative Team on board with his "I Love The 70's" sermon series idea, they decided to go in another direction...

Total return to form after a pretty weak season 4. Dwight's "what's up?" nod at the camera crew after doing business with Angela in the warehouse was an all-time classic moment!

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Faithfulness.

AS a hoops FREAK, I've got to say that it's not MJ that rules - it's Nike's creative team. And if you like that commercial, you need to check out the one where kids and amateur players recreate 23's most iconic moments. Or the ridiculously awesome "I've Failed" commercial. They're the gold standard...

I worship the ground he walked on until I realized the sad truth that he has defined his whole life in basketball. He's one of the worst GMs int he league but he can't walk away from the game because he doesn't know who he is without it. It cost him his marriage and I just hope he finds something meaningful to do with the rest of his life...

Brian's got it right and here's why. If we are truly committed to the truth of God's Word, then that will be our only reference and guide. the minute we start forming our opinion based on our own feelings and emotions, we have left the supernatural leadership of God and descended to the carnal judgment of our own flesh. Surely we can all agree that the Bible is TRUTH?

Dana, Brian's not telling you how to do anything. He's quoting Scripture, straight-up. If you've got a beef, it's with God - not Brian.

The Bible makes it abundantly clear that women ARE allowed to be leaders in the church but not in positions of authority over men. While God's love is most clearly displayed in mutual submission, He has called men to lead their families. Simple logic says that a man cannot lead his family if he is under his wife's authority as his pastor! God, and His Word, do not contradict each other.

If any of us are interested in real truth we must remember that truth is what it is - it's not what we want it to be. If truth is flexible to one's desires, then it's not truth (by definition) and we've entered the slippery slope of relativism.

I have much LOVE and RESPECT for women called to ministry but the Bible doesn't need "interpretation" on this one. The Word is CRYSTAL CLEAR in the book of Timothy.

Let's stick to God's Word - PERIOD. Any discussion that departs from it will only be fruitless...

I can't imagine what it's like hiding something like that for that long. I hope he's able to connect with a church that will love and accept him but still hold to Biblical truth. Out of curiosity, I wonder how something like this has affected his relationship with the Lord over the years. A lot or not at all? Any thoughts?

Great post, man. From my perspective, anything that draws attention to you instead of God is inappropriate (unless of course you're praying etc.). I notice this when I'm in a church that's sitting down for a slow song and 1 or 2 people stand up to worship. I think the key to congregational worship is that it's just that - congregational. The more unified we can be, even on a practical level, the better.

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Vicky Beeching's first attempt at feline exorcism proves more dangerous than she anticipated...

I thought many of the same things when I watched that video. I immediately thought of Paul's letter to Timothy, where he describes the qualifying traits of elders and deacons in the church. It's interesting that Paul encourages Timothy to examine the individual's life AWAY from the pulpit - for example, how does he interact with his family? What is his relationship like with his kids? I think this part of evaluating leaders has been COMPLETELY IGNORED for decades in the Western church. How many people follow leaders, even though it's a poorly kept secret that their marriage is a shambles or that they're terrible parents who never spend time with their kids? I believe that if we'd look at leaders' families and lives away from the pulpit, we'd see a lot less leaders elevated inappropriately...

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I apologize - I was having a bad day...

Hey Fred - I get no joy out of being right in this instance. I think a reflective follow-up post from you on this subject would be a great way to make sure that we learn the right lessons from this tragic mess. I blogged about this over at:

http://blogsology.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/todd...

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We are LIVE!

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A great worship song allows you to express your praise and/or worship in a new and fresh way lyrically. It gives words to your adoration of God that you couldn't' come up with on your own (or you would have!).

You should be able to sing 90% of the song after hearing it just once.

But honestly, I think it's just a God thing. The Holy Spirit definitely "moves" more on some songs than others. For example, "Shout to the Lord" is an incredibly "wordy" song that breaks some of the classic "rules" of songwriting. but God's in that song.

I think a great melody is an underrated part of a great song.

And I disagree that all the great songs are just instantaneous inspiration. Most of them were probably crafted over a long period of time (e.g. Tomlin's "Forever").

For my life, some of the most "anointed" worship songs have been:

I Could Sing of Your Love Forever
Your Love is Extravagant
There is Nothing Like
How He Loves
Forever
My Glorious (can anyone pull this off other than Delirious?)
Open the Eyes of my Heart
One Thing

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Dude - that stuff on TV always turns out to be a brilliant idea that's poorly executed. I bought this solar powered fan that went in the top of your car window and was supposed to keep your car cooler when you parked it by circulating out the hot air. It leaked, was flimsy, and just a huge disappointment. Sorry - but I'd put money on this turning out to be the same thing...

Jeff T.s last blog post..Audio Illusion

Hula worship? For the first time in my life, I have no idea what to say.

Jeff T.s last blog post..Audio Illusion

Hey Pete - really good stuff, man. My favorite worship environment would have to be my car!

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Judging by the photo in this post, worship isn't just for Sundays anymore - it's also perfect during warm ups for flag football!

Good post, I'll be posting soon on a theory I have about this. I think I've figured out the second most important factor but the primary factor is simply a lack of quality practical instruction on how to worship in a congregational setting. It's hard for us, as worship leaders, to cover this area as we can't really do it in 45 seconds or less! It really takes a commitment from the senior pastor to keep worship a priority in the minds of the congregation and help them understand the "why".

The Bible commands us to "sing to the Lord" more than ANY OTHER COMMAND IN THE BIBLE! I heard my pastor say this and I've never heard anyone else mention it - it's the best-kept secret of the Bible!

Kudos to you, man and thanks for being real. I'm on a reckless self-improvement kick as well this year and I think I finally found the key to consistently working out. We picked up a higher end elliptical machine from Costco and I just kill it for 30 minutes every day. The key for me has been scheduling those 30 minutes. When we'd normally be bumming out in front of the TV around 9pm, I'm on the elliptical - in the same room as my wife and still watching TV! When I'm working nights, I'll do it first thing in the morning. MY wife and I have a pact to keep each other accountable, on a daily basis, about our 30 minutes on the machine. I love the elliptical because it's completely silent and doesn't have the jarring impact of jogging. I hate jogging but I love this thing. Good luck!

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My safety-scissors business is of the chizzain!

I feel for you, man - I'm always working on this at our church! I've found that having a louder (not obnoxious) mix really helps. If people can really hear themselves sing, they assume everyone else can - and that makes them self-conscious. Having lower lighting helps too - again, feeling less self-conscious. I also realize that it's my job to explain to the congregation, on a regular basis, why we sing/worship/clap etc. It's incredibly hard to do that in one 30-second sound bite per week, so if you have any pointers please let me know! I also like to sing some slower songs w/just me and one guitar - you can really hear people sing and it's a cool moment.

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I'm a HUGE B.A. fan! You didn't mention his excellent "unplugged" album, though. The version of "Back to You" that's on there is killer. Random fact, my mother and father in law were in the same high school class as Bryan Adams - I've seen the year book and everything ('dude was flat-out ugly)!

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