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9 months ago
in Letter from Stacey Campbell : Todd Bentley : Prophetic Word on PRAY|THE|REVOLUTION
I agree with Kathi about the Todd Bentley prophecy. What if Todd comes back fully repentant and on fire? The prophecy is only unfulfilled if this doesn't happen. Even then it isn't necessarily "false" since prophecy is the mind of the Lord and subject to people being obedient in walking it out.
I am betting that Todd will come back. Yes, go ahead and shoot me for gambling...
I am betting that Todd will come back. Yes, go ahead and shoot me for gambling...
1 reply
10 months ago
in Todd Bentley’s Opponents : Irresponsibility : Correction on PRAY|THE|REVOLUTION
So the first part of this verse is a commandment and the other two instructions are...? Suggestions? Options?
1 reply
IWanthetruth
Emry and John
I appreciate your willingmess to talk with me via blog and I take full responsibility for getting involved, but as I had shared with Craig just a short while back, I believe that I have been directed by the Holy Spirit to back off and away from blogging for awhile. I must be obedient.
Blessings
I appreciate your willingmess to talk with me via blog and I take full responsibility for getting involved, but as I had shared with Craig just a short while back, I believe that I have been directed by the Holy Spirit to back off and away from blogging for awhile. I must be obedient.
Blessings
10 months ago
in Todd Bentley’s Opponents : Irresponsibility : Correction on PRAY|THE|REVOLUTION
1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
IWanthe truth, would a person who didn't follow after love be in disobedience? Would a person who didn't desire spiritual gifts be in disobedience? What about "that ye may prophesy"? Which of these is a suggestion?
IWanthe truth, would a person who didn't follow after love be in disobedience? Would a person who didn't desire spiritual gifts be in disobedience? What about "that ye may prophesy"? Which of these is a suggestion?
2 replies
CraigD
What is the definition of 'to prophesy?' In its general term it is simply speaking the Word of God. This is either as forthtelling, foretelling or even praising God (see below). Given that Paul has separate terms for 'message of wisdom' and 'message of knowledge' and taking into account the general contexts of 1 Corinthians 12-14 wouldn't speaking forth the word of God be more in line with his meaning? I understand this does not specifically exclude foretelling; but, it sure seems more plausible that Paul is speaking of teaching:
18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. [1 Corinthians 14:18-19 NIV]
The key words are 'to instruct others.' To instruct means to teach. Here's Strong's definition for 'to instruct' which is from the Greek word 'Katecheo:'
http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=2727
1) to sound towards, sound down upon, resound
a)to charm with resounding sound, to fascinate
2) to teach orally, to instruct
3) to inform by word of mouth
a)to be orally informed
Another example:
6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. [Acts 19:6 NIV]
In context, Paul found out these Ephesians only had John the Baptist's baptism of repentence; but, they had not heard the good news of the Gospel through Jesus Christ's atoning death. Paul explains this to this individuals in 19:4, then proceeds to baptise them and they 'prophesied.' Here's Strong's definition of this word:
http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=4395
to prophesy, to be a prophet, speak forth by divine inspirations, to predict
a) to prophesy
b) with the idea of foretelling future events pertaining esp. to the kingdom of God
c) to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation
d) to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels
1)under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others
e) to act as a prophet, discharge the prophetic office
So, did these Ephesians give some kind of foretelling of a future event? I would say that by the context they were more likely praising God and/or quoting Scripture as in 'd' and 'c'.
18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. [1 Corinthians 14:18-19 NIV]
The key words are 'to instruct others.' To instruct means to teach. Here's Strong's definition for 'to instruct' which is from the Greek word 'Katecheo:'
http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=2727
1) to sound towards, sound down upon, resound
a)to charm with resounding sound, to fascinate
2) to teach orally, to instruct
3) to inform by word of mouth
a)to be orally informed
Another example:
6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. [Acts 19:6 NIV]
In context, Paul found out these Ephesians only had John the Baptist's baptism of repentence; but, they had not heard the good news of the Gospel through Jesus Christ's atoning death. Paul explains this to this individuals in 19:4, then proceeds to baptise them and they 'prophesied.' Here's Strong's definition of this word:
http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=4395
to prophesy, to be a prophet, speak forth by divine inspirations, to predict
a) to prophesy
b) with the idea of foretelling future events pertaining esp. to the kingdom of God
c) to utter forth, declare, a thing which can only be known by divine revelation
d) to break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or praise of the divine counsels
1)under like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others
e) to act as a prophet, discharge the prophetic office
So, did these Ephesians give some kind of foretelling of a future event? I would say that by the context they were more likely praising God and/or quoting Scripture as in 'd' and 'c'.
IWanthetruth
1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
IWanthe truth, would a person who didn't follow after love be in disobedience?
This statement would fall in the two greatest command given to us. To love the Lord your God with all your heart, strength and mind and the second to love others. Yes.
Would a person who didn't desire spiritual gifts be in disobedience? What about "that ye may prophesy"? Which of these is a suggestion?
No I don't believe its sin. What about prophecy?
IWanthe truth, would a person who didn't follow after love be in disobedience?
This statement would fall in the two greatest command given to us. To love the Lord your God with all your heart, strength and mind and the second to love others. Yes.
Would a person who didn't desire spiritual gifts be in disobedience? What about "that ye may prophesy"? Which of these is a suggestion?
No I don't believe its sin. What about prophecy?
10 months ago
in Letter from Stacey Campbell : Todd Bentley : Prophetic Word on PRAY|THE|REVOLUTION
Can I interject here and point out that twice the Apostle John went to worship an angel and twice was stopped by the angel. If he can make that mistake and be humble and honest enough to write it down, it shows us that the angelic issue is not a new one. If even one of the Apostles of the Lamb was prone to over-emphasising angels, I hope that cuts Todd Bentley a little slack with you, Michael?
2 replies
John Burton
Good insight. It's so critically important that we handle scripture appropriately. It was asked where angels were used in scripture the way Todd taught.
I want to make a very important point. You won't find anywhere in scripture where it is forbidden. It's common for people to be nervous of manifestations or focuses that aren't word-for-word dictated in scripture. However, there is a big difference between scripture being silent on something and scripture forbidding something.
The correct handling of that will determine how large the playing field we have to work in is.
This topic is bigger than this simple point I just made, but for starters, don't dismiss something initially just because you don't find it verbatim in scripture. However, if scripture forbids it, throw it out.
I want to make a very important point. You won't find anywhere in scripture where it is forbidden. It's common for people to be nervous of manifestations or focuses that aren't word-for-word dictated in scripture. However, there is a big difference between scripture being silent on something and scripture forbidding something.
The correct handling of that will determine how large the playing field we have to work in is.
This topic is bigger than this simple point I just made, but for starters, don't dismiss something initially just because you don't find it verbatim in scripture. However, if scripture forbids it, throw it out.
CraigD
Then, using your example, wouldn't Bentley's angels have told him NOT to worship them but instead point to Jesus? This is DEFINITELY not what happened.
10 months ago
in Letter from Stacey Campbell : Todd Bentley : Prophetic Word on PRAY|THE|REVOLUTION
Could it be that God's real purpose in Lakeland is to expose all the self-righteous pharisees in the church?
Could it ...?
Could it ...?
1 reply
CraigD
So, who are the pharisees? Here's an excerpt of a post by Keith Gibson from the SignOfJonah blog:
Matthew 15:1-9 (ESV)1 Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” 3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 5 But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God, 6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: 8 “ ‘ This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; 9 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
Notice clearly that the problem was not their adherence to the Bible but rather their adherence to their own doctrines devised by men.
Another example:
John 5:45-47 (ESV)45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
Once again, notice that the problem is not their adherence to the scriptures.
Multiple other examples could be cited. Now here is the point. Among the many errors of the pharisees, was their tendency to place their own doctrines, invented by men, above the scriptures. What the bible had to say could be cancelled out in favor of what they said.
I would submit that we see much the same thing happening in the prophetic movement. We see a host of teachers inventing new doctrines that are completely unsubstantiated by scripture and then presenting them as fact EVEN IF THEY CONTRADICT THE DIRECT TEACHING OF THE WORD OF GOD.
You can read the rest here:
http://signofjonah.wordpress.com/2007/08/29/rep...
Matthew 15:1-9 (ESV)1 Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” 3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 5 But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God, 6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: 8 “ ‘ This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; 9 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
Notice clearly that the problem was not their adherence to the Bible but rather their adherence to their own doctrines devised by men.
Another example:
John 5:45-47 (ESV)45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
Once again, notice that the problem is not their adherence to the scriptures.
Multiple other examples could be cited. Now here is the point. Among the many errors of the pharisees, was their tendency to place their own doctrines, invented by men, above the scriptures. What the bible had to say could be cancelled out in favor of what they said.
I would submit that we see much the same thing happening in the prophetic movement. We see a host of teachers inventing new doctrines that are completely unsubstantiated by scripture and then presenting them as fact EVEN IF THEY CONTRADICT THE DIRECT TEACHING OF THE WORD OF GOD.
You can read the rest here:
http://signofjonah.wordpress.com/2007/08/29/rep...
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:16-17).