Disqus - Latest Comments for blorge

Re: Missional Leaders?

blorge — Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:36:12 -0000

I think that your post is great and well-timed. I've been thinking (and posting) about how important it is to remember that the point of missional churches isn't merely to draw people into your group. It's not a war of attrition. It's not a numbers game. It's about transforming people and society inside and out.

Re: Telling the Story in the local church

blorge — Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:09:35 -0000

VanS,
I would affirm that the body should struggle with its interpretation, commentary and application of the story. In my mind, it actually softens the clergy/laity distinction because it empowers people to grapple with the issues in the context of community.

My second thought is that this should be done more in small groups, or house church meetings rather than in a large gathering. I think that each has a different function and this is better done with an intimate size of people who are sharing their lives together.

Re: Submit or Subvert?

blorge — Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:06:41 -0000

So you agree with me.

Re: Being Trinitarian

blorge — Tue, 02 Nov 2004 10:36:07 -0000

Chris B.- I actually am not a super-big fan of Augustine's work for several reasons, and personally lean towards a more Eastern Orthodox view. But tht's just me.

VanS- I've been struggling long & hard to come up with a response to your challange to ChrisB. I think that the the difficulty in moving from high falutin language to every-day street language about the Trinity betrays the historical and systematic devaluing of the the doctrine of the trinity. If we truely had valued it in the Church, thinking and talking about it would come as second nature. It would be like asking questions like "are you saved" in the evangelical church.

I could give you a heady answer, but that would be besides the point.

Eschew Obsfucation, y'all!

Re: Hmmm…

blorge — Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:12:11 -0000

I've found it a bit disturbing that Bush has been talking about having a clear mandate from the people. I know he won by a substantially bigger margin than expected, but give me a break.

If evangelicals continue the trajectory they've been on since basically the early eighties when they allowed themselves to be hijacked by some strategists in the republican party, they will get a well-deserved backlash. I would slightly modify what ChrisB said by saying that there will be an intensification of the already-started backlash against the "Religious Right"

Evangelicals haven't always been republican, maybe we need return to our roots- the politics of Jesus.

Re: The Systematic Exclusion of Jesus from Christianity

blorge — Tue, 09 Nov 2004 15:34:14 -0000

I don't think that annilationism is necessarily a threat to a robust idea of salvation. If you think it is, you at least run the risk of the hell, fire and brimstone preaching that leads to salvation as "fire insurance" rather than as being united with Christ in his and your sufferings, death and resurrection.

Re: the “Beast”

blorge — Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:12:26 -0000

Chris,
I partially agree with you. I would say that the academy and the Hollywood machine don't overap very well. Call it "language games" or "non-overlaping magesteria" or whatever you like.

I disagree with part of the analysis. I think that the Jesus Seminar has shown the power that the academy can have over secular media, even if their scholarship isn't all that great.

All it might take is for some of the Biblical scholars to come together across the board and make a statement in the media, it could be a good thing. If NT scholars were willing to do things like go out into the media the way that other scholars do (especially political and legal scholars who cross-over as consultants on news programs) then they may be able to reverse the trend of being a pawn.

This, however would require a lot of work. It may even require a special surgery to get their heads out of their posteriors.

Re: A Personality Test

blorge — Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:15:55 -0000

I came out as a politician. I'm sensitive, but a good leader.

Re: An Evil Question

blorge — Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:10:00 -0000

It's not only this, but people within the regular evangelical camp. For instance, Wolfhart Pannenberg and people in the theology of hope movement tend to not have this emphasis. Karls Barth, and Rhaner, Paul Tillich, and many other of the "big" theologians of the twentieth centuries haven't emphasized this metaphysical reality. It's much wider than the camps you have mentioned, Mark. Evangelical, post-evangelical, post-liberal, pomo, and emergent theologians need to come out of the liberal theology and philosophies that have made this de-emphasis possible to begin with.

Re: An Evil Question

blorge — Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:55:01 -0000

ADDENDUM-
I forgot to mention that there is a growing number of scholars in whatever "camp" who are drawing from these significant figures in theology. For instance, Bethel Seminary' LeRon Shults.

Re: Emergent in the Twin Cities

blorge — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:13:53 -0000

I think that the ethos of the Twin Cities is liberal and geared towards social justice. Emergent churches are concerned with social justice, therefore we have a lot of emergent churches around here.

To respond to Chris' whities statement, there is also a growing missional church movement around here, even including some of the 'mega' churches such as Park Ave Methodist and Bethlehem Baptist, who are both fairly diverse. Mega churches such as Woodland Hills (Greg Boyd) and Bethlehem Baptist (John Piper) are both trying to embrace ecclesial multiculturalism. Chris may think that they may have a ways to go in some respects, but at least they're trying.

Re: Usury

blorge — Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:38:32 -0000

Andy Gr-
I haven't heard about Moslems in the UK doing this, but it sounds interesting. I've noted in the Twin Cities here a small but vocal number of socialists. I wonder if socialism will rise in the US like it did in Canada, the UK, and continental Europe. It would make sense given that this seems to be the trajectory of much of Europe (especially the scandanavian countries) and Canada as well.

I'm not particularally fond of socialism, but it might be a little more humane than some of the horrifying things that laissez-faire capitalism has done (especially in the "guilded era" of the industrial revolution).

Re: Community ouf of Mission or Mission out of Community?

blorge — Wed, 01 Dec 2004 08:11:15 -0000

As someone who grew up in a mainline church, I sometimes have a hard time with the idea of the "missional church" because my experience in both the evangelical and the mainline was that church is an affinity community and so this idea seems new, and frankly a bit contrived to me at times.

Then again, I do buy into it, so there you go.

Re: Misplaced Music

blorge — Thu, 27 Jan 2005 09:32:38 -0000

MPR now has a radio station only for music. If you're like me and you share a desktop with two other people (both of whom need it for work/school rather than email and recreation like me) then streaming a music station isn't really feasible.

I like the new public radio station because it is like Drive105 but better.

PLUS- I can listen to it in my car.

*Sigh*

Re: Stonewashed Worship

blorge — Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:40:37 -0000

I think that Andy's column was right on. It was well-written and I kinda have to admit that I like that it was rather melancholy. Evangelicals need to be ok with being melancholy in order to be authentic, yet even melancholia can be pre-fabricated.

Re: An Interview with Vincent J. Miller

blorge — Tue, 01 Feb 2005 14:44:44 -0000

It was a really interesting article, however I'd like to hear YOUR thoughts on it. Where do you agree or disagree?

Re: Evangelicals in America

blorge — Thu, 03 Feb 2005 13:39:52 -0000

Pat, does the article really show more of what Time thinks matters or who Evangelicals portray as people who matter within their own movement?

In today's politicized environment, it's natrual that Evangelicals will try to promote those within their group who are political in order to appear "relevant"

I was a bit peeved that there wasn't a single mention of a DEMOCRAT in the entire article, or even someone like Tony Campolo who is at least questioning the blind obedience Evangelicals have to the right.

Re: Evangelicals in America

blorge — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 09:06:20 -0000

I'd be more interested in having Time do a counter-balance and going to the pastors and the pews of Evangelical churches and seing how we view ourselves and who we think are important people in our clique.

I'd also like to add that some people are already waning in influence and some are rising stars, for instance, much of the Evangelical church is unaware of the Emergent movement, yet I really do believe that it is the way of the future.

Re: The Buffy Void

blorge — Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:02:31 -0000

For my money, you should go with the Gillmore Girls.

Re: Why I am not a primitivist.

blorge — Fri, 11 Feb 2005 15:42:40 -0000

Good article, I think it's important to have a general framework within which to work (ie house church) but to also open up time and space for creativity and for the Spirit to move. Even house churches (for all their potential) can quelch the Spirit.

Re: Blorge

blorge — Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:51:36 -0000

plus,
I hear brandon's like super cool.

Re: Stop Inviting People to Church

blorge — Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:34:43 -0000

I, too, feel ready to become more missional and relational in my approach. It doesn't mean that I want to forsake having a good service, and even doing some advertising, but we shouldn't think of this as the primary way to get people to be involved with "Church" (aka the community of God).

Re: A Quote from Hybels

blorge — Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:08:15 -0000

Mark,
I think you're being a little harsh in saying "The problem is, the example and experiences they'll be offering will be mostly worthless." Even if you were using hyperbole. For better or worse, they 'set the standard' that massive numbers of people in Evangelicalism look up to. I'm nervous about giving that much "power" to one small group, but at least Hybels and others are willing to publically repent of erroneous thought.

Missio Dei didn't get everything perfect in the beginning. We're still learning and growing so we should allow others to do so as well.

Re: The Church and Branding

blorge — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:51:49 -0000

I have to agree with Chris on that one. If branding becomes the emphasis, then it runs into idolatorous territory. If it is subsumed within a missional framework, then I would be ok with it.

That being said, on a personal level, I dislike an overemphasis on branding more because I'm a BoBo PoMo than for ecclesial reasons... If that makes sense.

Re: A Call for Conversational Analysis

blorge — Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:42:34 -0000

I don't think it's possible for a one-size-fits-all response to this conversation but I would have to venture to guess that Gary was at one point in a dysfunctional church or had a dysfunctional Christian witnessing to them and was hurt by someone.

Logicians would say that Gary is projecting qualities of the particular (church) onto the universal (church).

He seems to be rejecting Christians, not the Church in this scenereo.

Re: A Call for Conversational Analysis

blorge — Wed, 04 May 2005 10:23:21 -0000

What do you think, Mark?

Re: Pentecostalism and the Disconnect

blorge — Mon, 09 May 2005 09:37:31 -0000

I think a major reason why pentecostalism doesn't get more attention has to do with the anti-intellectualism that has been present in so many of their communities. The first generation of charismatic/pentecostal scholars is really starting to hit it academics stride within the last few years. It takes time for all of this to filter down through the church ranks.

I can probably count on one hand the "important" or "well-known" pentecostal scholars out there. As a 20-something seminarian, I can't say I've read too much by any Pentecostal, even though I've studied under some.

About the 2/3rds world pentecostals: they get accused of synchretism and are easy to dismiss by people not into it.

Re: Wisconsin, the Crash and the Church

blorge — Fri, 27 May 2005 16:53:29 -0000

In America, race and class are closely linked. African Americans and Latino Americans have a greater tendancy to be poorer than white Americans. A recent study I read about in the NY Times said that of all the immigrant groups in NYC, Mexicans were the poorest and the most likely to be involved in gangs, had the lowest rates of home ownership, etc.

There are poor white people, but the problem does not appear to be as endemic as it does for people with other skin colors. White people are used to seeing other rich white people in our culture so we have an idea that we may someday be rich as well. It has been documented in several studies that the reason African Americans have as their heros athletes, and rappers is because they don't have other role models for makeing it out of the "hood" such as black buisnessmen.

Re: Wisconsin, the Crash and the Church

blorge — Sat, 28 May 2005 10:44:46 -0000

So good Baptists don't eat ribs, huh?

Re: Wisconsin, the Crash and the Church

blorge — Tue, 31 May 2005 10:08:20 -0000

Michelle,
You had asked, "Don't you think that class is more divisive than race though?" and I said I don't think so because the two are really inter-related.

Yes some people of the same race don't interact because of class differences, but my guess is that a rich white person who doesn't hang out with poor white people isn't going to hang out with poor hispanics or Asian-Americans either.

Re: Rethinking the Atonement

blorge — Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:38:21 -0000

It is an unfortunate development in American Christianity that the crucifixion has been conflated with the penal substitution theory.

I wonder how much the movement from the academy to the laity (that Chris just wrote about) produces a lowest common denominator effect. Seminary-educated folk want to try to explain the crucifixion to the laity, so rather than go through multiple views and nuancing them out (while not succumbing to the temptation to start climbing up the stairs of the ivory tower), the teacher or pastor boils it down to a soundbyte to put up on the church website.

Re: A Call for a Non Partisan Sabbatical

blorge — Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:24:15 -0000

I wonder if the reason the church has allowed itsself to become so politicized doesn't have more to do with fear and sloth. We want to change things but we're afraid to reach out to those in our midst and affect a change at the "grassroots level" in our own communities and contribute to the same efforts abroad. We're afraid to step out beyond our comfort level and we're too lazy to think creatively on how to affect a change that doesn't involve the government.

Re: A Call for a Non Partisan Sabbatical

blorge — Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:24:29 -0000

I don't know how popular this will be with others, but I would say that we should try to develop an alternative infrastructure that would systematically address the problems in society. There are a lot of non-profits out there that we can and should support by partnering up with them in order to better understand what the needy are actually in need of. It could be as simple as having your church work with a soup kitchen once a month, or as involved as having everyone move into a particular neighborhood and get involved with neighborhood associations, etc.

I also think that we need to hear about relational/lifestyle evangelism from the pulpit and over the christian radio airwaves.

Re: A Call for a Non Partisan Sabbatical

blorge — Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:26:46 -0000

Also- I think we just need encouragement. We need to hear, "you can do it" enough until we internalize the message. We also need role models who had the same fears we did, but overcame them and can give us tips on how to do so as well.

That is all to say that it has to be a systematic, community-wide effort.

Re: emerge, but for Pete’s sake avoid the kitsch

blorge — Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:14:07 -0000

I think you're right, Timmer. I've long had an aversion to Contemporary Christian culture, and especially the literature that has been produced from the evangelical machine. Give me Dumas or Hemmingway over Peretti or Left Behind any day!

Re: Of Illness and Mission

blorge — Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:43:55 -0000

Graham,
I'd be interested to hear what you mean by that given that I live about 15 minutes away from the neighborhood that my church is called to serve. I have made a consciencious effort to spend time in the area and it has hindered me from being able to make connections in my own neighborhood.

I think that those who are called to live somewhere other than the neighborhood should be challanged to spend time in the neighborhood meeting people and trying to build connections, but I also need support and encouragement that I'm not wasting my time and that the sacrafices I make by not putting my roots down in my own community are still ultimately important and valued by others.

Re: Of Illness and Mission

blorge — Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:48:06 -0000

I hope I didn't come across as shrill or whiney in that post. All I meant to say is that it makes my life more difficult and I have to make some sacrifices that others don't. If the only approach is to tell people that they're not being faithful or committed if they don't move into the neighborhood, then that is a major disservice. I'm not saying that that is the message that is coming across, I'm just saying that it's difficult to find the right balance.

Re: An open post to my fellow techno-elites

blorge — Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:38:24 -0000

Hmmm... I'm not sure that it's the technology itsself, but the "numb stance of the technological idiot" (to use a phrase from class). It can make people's lives easier and help us feel more connected, or it can lead to an increase in social fragmentation. I think that the problem you're writing about here is that technology in America is coupled with materialism and greed. We let ourselves be marketed into believing we need something that we don't and thus the lines between practicality, necessity and desire get blurry.

Re: Music

blorge — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:31:18 -0000

Not to digress too much by bringing the conversation back to music, but I'd like to point out that the fact that there hasn't been music at the central gatherings for a bit doesn't prohibit the house churches from having music when they meet. I think that music can be a great expression of theology and community, however I'm not necessarily the type of person who gets super-emotional just because there's a song being sung. I think evangelicals tend to conflate music with worship and thus lose out on the richness of what God means when God says that our lives are meant to be worship.

Anyway, I agree that it is not a good thing to recruit someone into our fellowship merely because they have a certain talent. I would add, however that this could extend to someone who is bilingual (the ELL ministry) or is a film buff (the film group) or whatever else...

That way of operating takes the worst of the buisness model for doing church because it treats people as resources, rather than what they are: people.

Re: Music

blorge — Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:06:36 -0000

Hmmm... I'm thinking that I may bring an accordian and play some polkas for y'all someday ;)

Re: Music

blorge — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 07:36:48 -0000

Hmmm...
I think that a lot of people's needs are being met, but it is obviously the case that not everyone's needs are being met.

We've worked towards getting the "lower-order" needs met (i.e. food, shelter, etc.) but some of the "higher-order" needs aren't always being met. It's hard to remember exactly how many people are having their needs met when one doesn't "feel" as if one's own needs are being met onesself. Does that make sense?

Re: Hmm…back from the margins?

blorge — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 09:40:21 -0000

As to the question of Evangelicals, I'm not entirely sure what to make of the media coverage. I personally think that the movement is at it's apex, rather than on the decline, but it is showing signs that it's starting to buckle under the pressure. Movements such as Emergent are already well under way and will only gain popularity as people become dissatisfied with the Evangelical Right.

Re: Music

blorge — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 10:53:29 -0000

Sometimes I wonder if we overemphasize the impact of our own repression and non-confronative culture. I think most Minnesotans are repressed on some levels, but we're amazingly open and straightforward on others.

I think that the reason people aren't always willing to share is that we don't want to be vulnerable. If we don't share, it's because we don't want to risk opening ourselves up to being hurt by others.

We all respond instinctually to our surroundings so if we feel safe and others share, we're exponentially more likely and willing to share ourselves. The converse is also true. This is why community takes time. We all have to establish a bond of trust with eachother before we're willing to let our "higher order" needs be known.

In another sense, though, I think we do let our needs get known to others in ways that may be a bit dysfunctional or covert. We all have communicative pathologies and so we will share of ourselves but in a veiled way. This is the thing that I have the most difficult time with. I feel like I share a lot of myself, but if people aren't willing to hear and respond then I shut down. Every one else does this to some extent as well.

Re: Music

blorge — Fri, 01 Jul 2005 14:57:32 -0000

I think we also choose A rather than B because it means that the problem is with other people and not myself. That way we avoid introspection and self-change.

Re: What is your ecological footprint?

blorge — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:22:56 -0000

I got a shameful 17. I'm not entirely sure how Chris got a whole 7 points lower than I did since we're both vegitarians. Only having 2 people in my house right now raised my score, though. I fly less than once a year, so that helped, and taking the bus to work (and lately to school) helped my score too.

If I lived in Mark or Chris' neighborhood, I'd be able to walk to a lot more stores (i.e. the liquor store, the grocery store, the bar, the coffee shop, target, basically anywhere I wanted to spend money) and that would help, but instead I live in the "inner-city" and yet have some of the disadvantages of the suburbs. For instance, the closest coffee shop to my house is eleven blocks away and technically two neighborhoods away. The closest liquor store is eleven blocks (the other way) but there are two convenience stores five blocks away.

If bikes weren't so expensive, and if I weren't so worried about it getting stolen, I'd get one.

Re: inciting allegiance to Jesus in a society gone mad

blorge — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:28:21 -0000

Interesting tagline, I'd qualify it, though by adding that all societies throughout time have been "mad" in the sense that they all offer challanges and oppertunities to follow the Lord. The Middle Ages was just as "mad" as the Golden Age of Greece, or the Victorian Era.

Re: Persecution and the Spirit

blorge — Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:36:48 -0000

Part of the problem is that Christians have formed a "counter culture" that is really just a "sub-culture" and thus takes on all of the characteristics of the regular culture, but with a twist. We've become vanilla coke when we should have become jolt.

Re: Feedback on Ecclesiology

blorge — Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:12:47 -0000

This may seem like an odd list, but it's probably because I'm more of a theologian (and because I haven't taken any church leadership courses or workshops because I was in the Christian Thought program at Sem).

The Faces of Forgiveness (F. LeRon Shults & Steven Sandage)

Life Together, and Sanctorum Communio (Bonhoeffer)

Resident Alians (Hauerwas)

I second the Wendell Berry one, Jeremy ;)

Re: Right versus Left: One Neo-Anabaptist’s Perspective

blorge — Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:24:34 -0000

I've found this exchange interesting because I'm not sure that people have given a specifically theological reason for justifying participation in governmental activities/legislation/lobbying/etc.

I've seen logical ones, but not theological ones, per se.

Re: Rebellion from Within

blorge — Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:45:19 -0000

I've been giving it some thought and I've realized that it's ok for people to go out and start drinking beer and getting tattoos so long as they try to separate them from our ecclesiology.

What I'm trying to get at is the fact that we all have to establish our own independence from our parents and institutions that have shaped us. It's natural to push away at various points in our lives (let's not be harsh on teeniebopers or frat house boys because they're not the only ones).

It's ok, in this sense for people to start being "counter cultural" in this sense because they're showing the conservative church that they have a culture that isn't necessarily worth keeping in tact.

Re: Rebellion from Within

blorge — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:18:14 -0000

knightofpan-
Where has your path of seeking truth taken you? Do you as if it has been worthwhile?

(I'm not trying to bait you, I'm just curious. It's a question I ask of anyone who has made a conscious decision to leave Christianity).

(feel free to email me, if you'd like: blorge@gmail.com)

Re: From Outcomes to Marks

blorge — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:50:25 -0000

Maybe this is covered in hospitality, but growing in intimacy with eachother. Confessing sins to eachother and spurring eachother on towards holiness seems to be necessary as well.

Re: Emergent Movement as Protest

blorge — Fri, 04 Nov 2005 11:43:14 -0000

I agree. It's like protesting dress socks by wearing striped toe-socks. They're still socks, they just have individually-seperated spaces for the toes to go into.

Re: Emergent Movement as Protest

blorge — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 11:46:32 -0000

Mark,
I'm just saying that we don't always call a spade a spade. If you're making major differences, then say it, but if you're making small changes, don't call them big ones. Any pastor worth their weight in salt should have at least a cursory understanding of the ecclesial landscape and should understand that they're not offering a revolutionary new thing. Call it what it is.

Re: A Tidbit from the Missional Church Consultation

blorge — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 12:20:08 -0000

Mark,
This was a good post, the only feedback I'd have is in reguard to your last bulletpoint. I'd argue that the message of Evangelicals is oddly contextual, but it is the wrong context for todays audience. The message of the gospel that is often preached in Evangelical churches makes some sense within Evangelical subculture, but even so, I'd argue that there are ways of articulating the gospel that make more sense within Evangelical subculture, if not within greater American culture(s). The main problem with the preaching of the gospel is that it is being presented in a way that you have to already be an insider in order to "get" and if you're not, then it either doesn't make any sense, or is not very attractive, or a mix of both.

Re: Revisioning the Church

blorge — Wed, 11 Jan 2006 02:34:46 -0000

Mark,
why exactly do you still want to be considered "in"? What benefit do you see? How does it fit within your structures to see yourself as "in"?

I'm not saying that to be rude, but I think I've pretty much given up on wanting to be "in" but it's more because I define it rather narrowly as well, and have rejected the narrower group. Maybe that's not fair, but that's where I'm at.

Re: Discipleship in America, Part 4: The Challenge of Capitalism

blorge — Fri, 03 Feb 2006 18:13:10 -0000

Mark,
When is accumulation of property ok? You said you're not a Marxist, but you seemed to say that the accumulation of property is contrary to being a good social person.

Re: Wise words about “responding” to homosexuality

blorge — Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:08:10 -0000

DLW-
Why should we deal with the political dimension as well? What is the proper response, politically?

Isn't welcoming glbt people into a Christian community a political act/statement in itsself?

Re: The Everchanging Theme

blorge — Mon, 20 Feb 2006 19:44:53 -0000

I agree, Mike.

Substance over style!

Re: The Everchanging Theme

blorge — Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:29:25 -0000

Design is significant, but changing things to make them look flashier is part of consumer fetishism. You, the bloger are alienating the reader because you keep on changing the look, making it difficult for people to find what they're looking for. It's a classical case of the alienation of the masses.

Long live Marx! (oh, wait...)

Re: Shame on Me

blorge — Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:51:13 -0000

Is this the Muhammed I know from the 2nd Moon?

I'd like to talk to him again sometime, but I'm not going to the 2nd moon as much anymore for various reasons.

Re: Classic JM: Subversive Math

blorge — Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:51:34 -0000

Mark,
I found your post to be very insightful. I have had a hard time with people who say that church is all of the things you've said above, but then still go to megachurches or even traditional churches.

We all have dichotomies between what we say we believe and what we live out, but shouldn't the goal be to heal the disconnect as we're sanctified in Christ?

Re: Discipleship in America: Subversive Math and Neo-Monasticism

blorge — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 10:16:21 -0000

What about the idea of Christendom? I'd argue that Charlemagne was probably as "bad" a figure as Constantine was in terms of solidifying this synthesis.

Constantine paved the path with the Edict of Milan in 313 for the state to stop persecuting the Christians, but it took a few generations before Christianity became the state religion and that's why I especially dislike Theodosius and the Theodosian Codes which formed the bedrock of the church-state relationship all the way up until the 20th century.

I really dislike Charlemagne because his baptism in 800 marked the true beginning of "Christendom" with the Holy Roman Empire (which was non of the three nomers).

If you're going to use a term, I think that Christendom helps, but you have to recognize the path it took to get there.

Re: Twin Cities Emergent Gathering on Thursday Night

blorge — Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:32:06 -0000

How did it go?

Re: “God Loves You” (A Few Reasons To Doubt The Existence Of A Loving God)

blorge — Mon, 20 Mar 2006 09:18:20 -0000

The idea of moral evil that is caused by free choices we make is one thing, but physical evil seems to be more difficult. I didn't choose to have a birth defect, just like the Sri Lankans didn't choose to have a tsunami.

I agree, Em that we have a choice with how to deal with this, but it is still horrifying when I think about how many people suffer in the world.

Re: “God Loves You” (A Few Reasons To Doubt The Existence Of A Loving God)

blorge — Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:34:04 -0000

Tim,
I don't think it's reductionistic or mathematical, per se. I think it's just a building of rhetorical weight that is meant to tap into something deeper inside of you. It's the difference between saying that the world is a bad place, and the world is a bad place because of the turmoil in Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Russia, China, Venezuela, Colombia, North Korea, Iran, etc.

When I say the world is a bad place, you can choose whether to agree with me. If I say that the world is a bad place because of a large number of concrete reasons, it seems less etherial and more basic. More flesh and blood.

Re: David Fitch’s Five Theological Issues in Emerging Church

blorge — Thu, 23 Mar 2006 16:05:29 -0000

The fact that the emerging church is complex is exemplified by the fact that four out of his five core areas have "and" in them. They're linking different ideas (and ways of doing and being things) together.

Re: Looking Ahead

blorge — Thu, 04 May 2006 15:14:11 -0000

That sounds like an excellent idea. Is anyone else going to take the course with you at UST?

Re: Planning ahead

blorge — Fri, 05 May 2006 13:00:18 -0000

What if it were called "renuning" the church? It could have an added dimention of social justice.

Re: What manner of Christian be ye?

blorge — Mon, 22 May 2006 15:08:43 -0000

I have a similar problem, however it is additionally complicated by the fact that I am at Luther Sem where the way that things get framed is different from my Bethel days. They don't tend to see the distinctions that people at Bethel see as so important. Instead of asking my denominational background, they ask my confessional tradition. I feel as if I can say a lot of different things and have them all be true of me (i.e. "Emergant" or "Anabaptist" or "House Church") but none of them seems absolutely comfortable. I have had to just let that identity part go and to just say house church and wait for follow-up questions to give out the exact nuances based on their level of interest and categories. If someone is just asking to make small-talk, then why bother giving out the full view? When it becomes relevant, I'll distinguish further.