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Re: Featured on Friday Five Today - Gender Identity

Zoe Brain — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 03:32:37 -0000

There are two papers on the subject:

Zhou J.-N, Hofman M.A, Gooren L.J, Swaab D.F (1997)
A Sex Difference in the Human Brain and its Relation to Transsexuality.

Kruijver F.P.M, Zhou J.-N, Pool C.W., Swaab D.F. (2000)
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus

Male and Female brains differ, both on the coarse scale (BSTc layer of the hypothalamus) and fine scale (number of neurons - brain cells - in each structure). Autopsies on transsexual women, that is, women with mostly male bodies, have shown they have female pattern brains.

Note that gay men have male pattern brains though.

From ArzteZeitung this year, detailing studies using fMRT - "brain scans" of living people:
"Radiologists can now confirm what transsexuals report - that they feel “trapped in the wrong body” - on the basis of the activation of the brain when presented with erotic stimuli. There is obviously a biological correlation with the subjective feelings."

Note that "Transgendered" does not equal "Transsexual". Transsexual is a subset of Intersexed, and both are subsets of "Transgendered". Most TG people have no medical issues, ie. do not have Gender Identity Disorder. Gender Identity Disorder is a consequence of severe Gender Dysphoria. Most IS people don't have GID, but some 10% do, far higher than in the general population (about 0.3%).

There exist Intersex conditions such as 17BHDD and 5ARD where the patient changes apparent sex naturally - and about a third of those have GID afterwards, a third have GID before, and the other third just take the change in their stride; they're not strongly gendered either way.

As the result of transition (Sex Change), about a third of TS people are gay (and used to appear straight), a third are straight (and used to appear gay), and a third change their orientation from straight to straight (no, not a misprint - when they look like women, they are attracted to men, and when the look like men they are attracted to women).

All of this is fairly well documented on the Internet, and has been for some time.

Re: Featured on Friday Five Today - Gender Identity

Zoe Brain — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:32:37 -0000

There are two papers on the subject:
Zhou J.-N, Hofman M.A, Gooren L.J, Swaab D.F (1997)
A Sex Difference in the Human Brain and its Relation to Transsexuality.
Kruijver F.P.M, Zhou J.-N, Pool C.W., Swaab D.F. (2000)
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus
Male and Female brains differ, both on the coarse scale (BSTc layer of the hypothalamus) and fine scale (number of neurons - brain cells - in each structure). Autopsies on transsexual women, that is, women with mostly male bodies, have shown they have female pattern brains.
Note that gay men have male pattern brains though.
From ArzteZeitung this year, detailing studies using fMRT - "brain scans" of living people:
"Radiologists can now confirm what transsexuals report - that they feel â€œtrapped in the wrong bodyâ€ - on the basis of the activation of the brain when presented with erotic stimuli. There is obviously a biological correlation with the subjective feelings."
Note that "Transgendered" does not equal "Transsexual". Transsexual is a subset of Intersexed, and both are subsets of "Transgendered". Most TG people have no medical issues, ie. do not have Gender Identity Disorder. Gender Identity Disorder is a consequence of severe Gender Dysphoria. Most IS people don't have GID, but some 10% do, far higher than in the general population (about 0.3%).
There exist Intersex conditions such as 17BHDD and 5ARD where the patient changes apparent sex naturally - and about a third of those have GID afterwards, a third have GID before, and the other third just take the change in their stride; they're not strongly gendered either way.
As the result of transition (Sex Change), about a third of TS people are gay (and used to appear straight), a third are straight (and used to appear gay), and a third change their orientation from straight to straight (no, not a misprint - when they look like women, they are attracted to men, and when the look like men they are attracted to women).
All of this is fairly well documented on the Internet, and has been for some time.

Re: Gay Rights At the Expense of Religious Liberty? Part II

Zoe Brain — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:07:23 -0000

I think the Canadian "Human Rights" (scare quotes intended) commission has done as much to harm the Gay Rights lobby by this stupid, insane and hateful action as Fred Phelps has done to the anti-Gay lobby.
Apart from that though, it's just plain wrong, no matter what the issues under consideration are.

Re: Gay Rights At the Expense of Religious Liberty? Part II

Zoe Brain — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:07:23 -0000

Re: Would You Raise a Hermaphrodite / Intersex Child?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 07:35:09 -0000

This isn't a hypothetical for me, though my son's Intersex condition was comparatively mild. It did require genital reconstruction to avoid pain though, and give good urinary function.

We opted for the minimal surgery needed. Now I didn't know anything about the subject, we were guided by medical advice, which was conservative to say the least.

My advice to all - let the child tell you what gender they are before consenting to any surgery that could damage sensation or fertility, or that would make a genital reconstruction to the opposite sex more difficult.

I'm Intersexed too, but a really rare type where the problems are different.

Re: State anti-discrimination law goes too far

Zoe Brain — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:44:54 -0000

You know, it's funny. 13 States and some 100 cities and counties already have such legislation in place, and have had sometimes for decades, and they haven't had any problems.

You can be sure that if a single problem had occurred, "Focus on the Family" and others of their ilk would have trumpeted it out loud.

They figure though that Coloradans will be stampeded by outrageous and counter-factual claims, out of a desire to protect their children. Shout a lie loud enough and often enough, and people won't bother looking at the evidence. From this letter, it appears to be working.

Re: Kerry's Sister Warns Australians

Zoe Brain — Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:09:49 -0000

By the way, not too many people down here are taking Princess Diana Kerry seriously. We're not even irked at "foreign interference with local elections", what she said is just not worth worrying about.

OTOH Latham may beat Howard in the next elections, but if so, it will be on local issues. Both Howard and Latham engaged in a p*ssing contest on TV about who was going to be tougher on the Islamic terrorists. Howard said it was a global concern, Latham wanted to put resources only into our region (ie Indonesia - it is the largest Muslim country in the world, after all, and has had 3 spactacular bombings since 2002). Bookies are giving 3:1 odds on Howard, but I think he's more like 5:4 on.

Disclaimer : I'm voting Liberal. (Which in Oz means right-wing, what else did you expect?)
Our Federal Election is in early October BTW.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 08:47:10 -0000

Transgendered behaviour a lifestyle choice? Not for those who are transsexual it isn't.

See
Kruijver F.P.M, Zhou J.-N, Pool C.W., Swaab D.F. (2000)
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus

And many other papers on the subject. It's a gross simplification, but captures the essence of the syndrome, to say "Female Brain, Male Body". Or the reverse, "Male Brain, Female Body".

It's as much a lifestyle choice as having a cleft palate. The difference is, that those who get surgical treatment for cleft palates don't get anathematised by medically and scientifically illiterate groups. There's no talk about "God doesn't make mistakes" when an infant is born that way. Nor are they told to "bear the thorn in one's flesh". The problem gets fixed.

I'm not a resident of SF, but I wouldn't think merely being the CEO of a sex toy company is a particularly useful qualification for a police chief.

On the other hand, being a member of a minority group who suffers a congenital anomaly, and also has a rate of being murdered 19 times the average, over 5 times higher than the next highest minority group (young urban black males), then I think that is.

From some of the comments here, I think I can see why the murder rate is so high. Not that anyone here would actually kill someone for being transsexual - but they won't weep too many tears if it happens, and won't be too concerned if the murderer isn't caught. Not as much as for a "normal" person, and not a freak.

Oh yes, I admit to being a freak - biologically I am, I'm intersexed as well as TS. Just don't call me a Lefty, Ok? That's fighting talk.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 09:25:43 -0000

Sparky said[quote]One person's decision to have a sex change is not an ‘effect' as such. It is merely one of the benefits to being an American as we Americans have a lot of positive autonomy as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's negative autonomy.[/quote]
Er, not quite. It doesn't work that way.

First, you have to see a gender specialist - a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist specialising in the area.

Then, after at least three months of diagnostic observation, hormones may be prescribed. Anyone who is merely transvestite or delusional, and who has managed to fool the professional, tends to get upset at the physical changes, the atrophy of the genitalia etc. They stop, and the changes reverse. To the correctly diagnosed TS person, it feels wonderful, they become more productive, more functional, often any co-morbidities vanish.

After some time on hormones, and with a changed appearance from them, the patient then starts the "Real Life Experience", living in the target gender role. That means changing the name, getting as much documentation as possible changed, and so on. This is a risky and challenging time for those whose appearance doesn't look so good. Many end up being victims of violence, but that's just the way things are.

After at least one year of the "RLE", the patient then gets referred to another specialist, with a PhD in psychiatry, also specialising in the area. The patient must be OK'd for surgery by not one, but two shrinks. They must both be sure that it's a congenital problem, and not some other syndrome, such as Borderline Personality Disorder, or some delusional psychosis.

Then and only then will a surgeon consider operating on them.

It's not a matter of "Oh, I think I'll have a sex change today". In some ways it's not even voluntary, the hurdles are so high, with the risk of losing family, home, job, life savings, that only the truly desperate will attempt it. Many fail. Many die. Most of the rest lose at least part of the things they value, often being denied access to their children for example.

But it's transition, die, or get institutionalised with an increasingly dysfunctional mind. Courage as such is not required. Desperation, determination, and sheer indomitability is.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 09:57:16 -0000

Zsa Zsa wrote:[quote]I can't imagine personally how someone could be so uncomfortable with their own gender that they would go to such great measures to reassign themselves.[/quote]
The point is, they [b]are[/b] comfortable with their gender. It's the fact that their bodies don't match their gender that causes the discomfort.

Perhaps you would be perfectly comfortable if you had a male body. Beard, body hair, genitalia, the works. You'd still know you were female, of course, and would have known since age 4-7. You'd have exactly the same feelings and emotions as you do now, though the testosterone would be warping your mind, and you'd know it. It feels horrible, perverse even. And it gets worse with age, female pattern brains don't work too well with a male hormonal mix. Think of the worst menopausal symptoms imaginable, all the time, for 30 years. See now why many are so desperate to get the problem fixed?

robert108 wrote:
[quote]as long as I don't have to pay for it, do what you want.[/quote]
Of course we have to pay for it ourselves! It's not covered by medicare, and if you look at your insurance policy, you'll see a specific exclusion for anything to do with sex reassignment, or its consequences. Many insurance companies refuse all claims after sex reassignment, on the grounds that the broken leg or whatever may possibly not have happened if there'd been no surgery.

And the IRS is now claiming that it isn't tax deductible, that it's just cosmetic. Of course the same government insists that surgery be perfomed before they will issue a passport in the correct gender. And it's a precondition to getting the birth certificate changed. Though 3 states won't change the BC anyway. They make lesbian marriages legal, as long as one of the women is TS.

Would you say the same if the surgery was to correct a cleft palate?

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:21:05 -0000

2Hotel9
What you said is quite ironic. No-one who is "mentally unstable" qualifies for surgery.

On the other hand, individuals who refer to other human beings as "It" bring to mind Buffalo Bill in "The Silence of the Lambs". Many shrinks would think such a person may well be in need of therapy.

I don't. I don't even think you're particularly bigoted. Just very, very ignorant of the medical facts. But that's pardonable, most people are. I was, until I did some research.

It was as long ago as 2003 that a comprehensive judicial review of the scientific evidence was conducted by the Full Bench of the Family Court of Australia. Here's what was found in the "re Kevin" case:

[quote]At paragraph [252]: ‘The traditional analysis that they are "psychologically" transsexual does not explain how this state came about. For example, there seems to be no suggestion in the evidence that their psychological state can be explained by reference to circumstances of their upbringing. In that sense, the brain sex theory does not seem to be competing with other explanations, but rather is providing a possible explanation of what is otherwise inexplicable'.

At paragraph [253]: ‘In other words (as I understand it) the brain of an individual may in some sense be male, for example, though the rest of the person's body is female'.

At paragraph [268]: ‘It seems quite wrong to think of these people as merely wishing or preferring to be of the opposite sex, or having the opinion that they are'.

At paragraph [270]: ‘But I am satisfied that the evidence now is inconsistent with the distinction formerly drawn between biological factors, meaning genitals, chromosomes and gonads, and merely "psychological factors", and on this basis distinguishing between cases of inter-sex (incongruities among biological factors) and transsexualism (incongruities between biology and psychology)'.

At paragraph [272]: ‘In my view the evidence demonstrates (at least on the balance of probabilities) that the characteristics of transsexuals are as much "biological" as those of people thought of as inter-sex'.

At paragraph [136]: ‘I agree with Ms Wallbank that in the present context the word "man" should be given its ordinary contemporary meaning. In determining that meaning, it is relevant to have regard to many things that were the subject of evidence and submissions. They include the context of the legislation, the body of case law on the meaning of "man" and similar words, the purpose of the legislation, and the current legal, social and medical environment. These matters are considered in the course of the judgment. I believe that this approach is in accordance with common sense, principles of statutory interpretation, and with all or virtually all of the authorities in which the issue of sexual identity has arisen. As Professor Gooren and a colleague put it:-

"There should be no escape for medical and legal authorities that these definitions ought to be corrected and updated when new information becomes available, particularly when our outdated definitions bring suffering to some of our fellow human beings".'[/quote]

She's a She, not an It. Another piece of irony: you typed your comment using a personal computer, a piece of technology that would have been impossible without an invention by Professor Emerita Lynn Conway. She too was born with this condition. Why not go to her webpage and see just how many medics, scientists, and engineers there are who make no secret of their medical history. I'm just a plain old rocket scientist, still working on my PhD. Unlike, say, the chief scientist of NASA's Aimes Research Labs.

It's thanks to people like you that most live in Stealth, trying to hide their past.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:37:14 -0000

robert108 wrote:
[quote]Are you really trying to make an equivalence here?[/quote]
Equivalence? Not really. Similarity though.

Given that between 30% (California survey) and 90% (Western Australia survey) die if unable to obtain treatment when the condition becomes acute, then an Equivalence would be surgery to remedy a congenital heart defect. The usual reason for being unable to obtain treatment is lack of funds.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:57:56 -0000

Zsa Zsa wrote:
[quote]Transexuals have to prepare themselves for a new world. Does their birth certificate become invalid? When they get a passport how does that work? Does Soc. sec recognize them as the same person? Their whole identity is changed in that one procedure. Sounds like a lot of paper work and red
tape...[/quote]
You said it. Procedures for name changing differ from state to state, procedures for changing BC's ditto. In some states, you just pay a small fee, get a police check, and the name is changed. In others, with name changes you are at the mercy of a Judge, who may not consent just because he doesn't approve of this kind of thing, no matter what the eggheads and doctors say. In Illinois, for a BC change, the surgery has to be performed by a surgeon registered to practice there, or it doesn't count. Ohio and Tennessee won't change BCs at all, and if you're in Texas, some counties will, some won't. Texas state law says they should, that circuit court just ignores that.

I was born in the UK, and my BC says that I'm a 49 year old male. Now look at my avatar, an unretouched picture of me taken a few months ago. See my problem?

My UK passport on the other hand says "female".

Medicare Australia, immediately before I transitioned, decided on the basis of my medical tests that I had to be female, as no male could have those results. As I said, not only am I TS, I'm intersexed too. I can't get an Australian passport of any kind, they don't issue them to Transgendered people.

The legal situation is a mess, no matter which nation you live in.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:14:05 -0000

So much ignorance, so little time...

There are not dozens, but hundreds of different Intersex conditions. To me, the most amazing are not even the 1 in 1 million who are fertile hermaphrodites, it's the 1 in 100,000 who are serial hermaphrodites. These people usually have 5ARD or 17BHD deficiency (Google it). They are born looking like baby girls, but masculinise at puberty. There are rarer conditions where someone can look male for much of their life (well, mainly male), then start looking female (well, mainly female). That's about 1 in 3.5 million, we think.

The best estimates are that 1 in 3000 women and 1 in 10,000 men have this condition. The number of FtoMs is not "statistically insignificant", it's just that they get less publicity.

68% of TS women are lesbian before surgery, 32% afterwards. So the comment about "it's always so they can have sex with guys" is contrary to the facts.

A large proportion (24%) are celibate after the surgery. Partly that's because of the risk of violence, partly because some don't look so good, and partly because of psychological hangups. 9% are asexual. It's not about sex, it's about having a body that matches the brain.

Pychiatric therapy has been as successful at curing Transsexuality as it has been curing epilepsy. Or for that matter, heart defects. It can sometimes help the patient live with it and find coping strategies, that's all.

Guys, imagine you had a nasty accident, and were bobbitised. A surgeon offers you re-attachment, and a shrink offers you therapy that might help you with it, in an attempt to turn you gay so you don't mind it so much. Which would you choose? And would it be a real choice?

Now it just so happens that I'm one of those rare 1 in 3.5 million, my transition was pretty much forced on me. April 2005 I had my Gender Dydphoria under control. Women with a male-ish body? Ok, so what? Worse things happen at sea. By the end of July 2005, I was getting homophobic threats, people calling me a "Drag King" and "Butch Dyke". I no longer "passed" as male. So I transitioned, and the relief was indescribable. The point is, the psych tests showed I was a typical TS woman, and I identify as that, rather than Intersexed. The only difference is that I didn't have the courage, or desperation, to transition as others do. My case was mild in comparison.

It was also Hellish. I can't imagine what most go through, nor how they can stand it for so long. Many don't, of course.

May I suggest that those giving their opinions do a bit of research first? [url=http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/conway.html]Lynn Conway's site[/url] is a good beginning.

The majority of people with HBS - Harry Benjamin's Syndrome - commonly called Transsexuality or Congenital Neurlogical Intersex - are very uncomfortable with being lumped in with the GLB and transgendered crowd. Virtually all Intersexed people are too. But we weren't consulted. Some of us are Gay, others Lesbian, but that has nothing to do with our medical condition. We accept the criticism by the GLBT lobby that we're out to affirm gender norms, not violate them. Not to be "Gender Outlaws" or exhibitionists, just ... men and women with an unusual medical history.

I don't know. I can quote scientific research papers, statistics, medical articles, even Judicial assessments of the situation, Facts and Figures and they get ignored as Psychobabble, simply because they contradict ignorant prejudice. "I know what I know, it's common sense, don't confuse me with the facts!"

I'm used to getting that from the Left, being told that Science is just a patriarchal tool of oppression, no more valid than mere opinion. To get it from the Right is disheartening.

Look, just go down to the library, and borrow a copy of the "Praeger Handbook of Transsexuality", written by a Professor of Psychology. Or see Prof Conway's site. Then give an informed opinion. Please.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:50:10 -0000

Some of the Sources - just to show that I'm not trying to blind with science, or baffle with BS:

[url=http://www.helen-hill.com/pdf/sexuality/sexualitymtfsurgery.pdf]Sexuality before and after Male to Female Sex Reassignment Surgery (PDF)[/url] Lawrence A.(2006)

[url=http://www.sfbaytimes.com/index.php?sec=article&article_id=5593]Transsexuals want out of GLBT[/url] SF Bay Times, Oct 12 2006

[url=http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/full/155/suppl_1/S107]Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure[/url] European Journal of Endocrinology, Vol 155 Hulshoff Pol H.E, Cohen-Kettenis P.T., Van Haren N.E.M, Peper J.S., Brans R.G.H, Cahn W., Schnack H.G., Gooren L.G.J., Kahn R.S. (2006)

[url=http://www.harrybenjaminsyndrome-info.org/pdf/BSTc.pdf]A Sex Difference in the Human Brain and its Relation to Transsexuality.(PDF)[/url] Zhou J.-N, Hofman M.A, Gooren L.J, Swaab D.F (1997)

[url=http://www.harrybenjaminsyndrome-info.org/pdf/brainsex1.pdf]Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus(PDF)[/url] Kruijver F.P.M, Zhou J.-N, Pool C.W., Swaab D.F. (2000)

[url=http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TSprevalence.html]Frequency of Transsexualism[/url] Conway L. (2002)

[url=http://www.harrybenjaminsyndrome-info.org/]Harry Benjamin Syndrome Informational Resource[/url]

[url=http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/DeakinLRev/2004/22.html#Heading437]Re Kevin In Perspective[/url] Deakin Law Review 2004 vol 22

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:11:28 -0000

Wetback - thanks for saying "please".

I can think of a few reasons. The first is that those with HBS have a 2 standard deviation (and how appropriate that phrase is) increase in IQ, we think. Maybe it's just that those with IQs averaging less than 130 don't survive puberty. We're creative too. Anyway, we're useful. A lot of us go in the military as well. We're good at it, and we're expendable. When your life is hell, when you can't get your problem fixed without hurting those you most care about, well, you try to find a way of making your life - or death - worthwhile.

See the article on the possible evolutionary usefulness of some expendable human soldier-ants/brain bugs over at [url=http://www.intersexualite.org/TSDef1.html]Intersexualite.org[/url]
[quote]A population of highly stressed and struggling paleolithic humans, perhaps at some great impasse, might well be saved by the cross-hormonally induced birth of transsexual members. A hyper intelligent and creative disposable personage would be the most likely to try new things, even highly dangerous things, things that no ordinary individual would think to try. The tormented transsexual would have less to lose, and be less of a loss to the gene pool if the new idea had fatal results. Ultimately, the transsexual would be very likely to find a solution, a way, that would otherwise be missed.

I suggest that transsexuality is a natural function, a way for human animals to produce a subset of their population effectively suited to discovering new and useful survival options, with minimal loss to the genetic pool overall.

In effect, the transsexual is Nature's Little Wild Card. The disposable enhanced Survival Scout, who tends to be generated in proportion to the overall stress the population endures, and which serves a valuable function in the scheme of basic animal survival.
...
Admittedly, it is a cold and mechanical value, but then I asked the reader to consider it from the Blind Watchmaker's position, the dispassionate and living machinery of Nature.

I submit, that from the position of pure survival, of cold hard reality, that gender Dysphoria may well be a useful evolutionary development...a "deliberate" (as though Nature had the faculty of choice!) mistake that can serve a vital function for the survival of the Whole, with no concern whatsoever for the agony of the individual.[/quote]

The second reason is that there's a 1 in 6500 chance (at least) that any child you might have will be a victim of this syndrome. Personally, I'm not sure whether people like you should reproduce, but that's just a personal opinion based on your comments. Do you [b]really[/b] want to do the whole Auschwitz thing? Come on, societal pressure already kills off most of us, you want to make it complete? If so, you're not exactly Robinson Crusoe, many feel as you do. Fortunately only a comparatively small minority take action in that regard, most just stick to beatings and the like, not extermination.

You said "please". The real psychopaths don't do that, they see us as not merely subhuman, but immoral filth to be cleansed from society. "It", not He or She.

In 1930 Germany, the appointment of a Jewish Police Commissioner would have been equally as controversial. After 1932 of course, it would have been impossible.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:41:13 -0000

Neumann: re "solid data" on the existence of a statistically significant number of FtoMs.

Tsoi WF. Male and female transsexuals: a comparison. Singapore Medical Journal 1992;33:182-185. The Tsoi study in 1988 for Singapore found 1:9,000 for M2F and 1:27,000 for F2M

L. Gooren (et al.) study in the Netherlands in 1992 found 1:11,900 for M2F and 1:30,400 for F2M

Or just see [url=http://ftmi.org/]F to M International[/url].

I applaud your demand for "objective scientific data" by the way. The fact that you gave opinions without knowing that the data exists is another matter, but we all do that sometimes. Myself included.

The fact that you didn't know this data exists rather proves my point about "lack of publicity". There can even be articles in the
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/12/AR2006071201883.html]Washington Post[/url] and they pass un-noticed.

[quote]Dr. Barres presently serves on the editorial boards of several leading journals including Neuron, the Journal of Neuroscience, and Development. He is a diplomate of the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology. He has won many research awards including a Life Sciences Research Fellowship, the Klingenstein Fellowship Award, a McKnight Investigator Award, and a Searle Scholar Award, as well as teaching awards including the Kaiser Award for Excellence in Teaching and the Kaiser Award for Innovative and Outstanding Contributions to Medical Education. He presently serves on several advisory committees for the Society for Neuroscience, the National Multiple Sclerosis Society, and the National Institutes of Neurological Disorders.[/quote]So he's not exactly low-profile.

Poland is an interesting anomaly. From [url=http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/aseb/2002/00000031/00000006/00452852]Masculinity, Femininity and Transsexualism[/url] Herman-Jeglinacuteska A.; Grabowska A.; Dulko S; Archives of Sexual Behavior, Volume 31, Number 6, December 2002 , pp. 527-534
[quote]This study examined the relationship between sex role and gender identity in a Polish transsexual population where, unlike in Western countries, male-to-female (MF)transsexualism is much less common than female-to-male (FM) transsexualism.[/quote]

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:58:36 -0000

Neuman wrote:
[quote]All but a microspcopic number of men, if indeed they exist at all, seeking sexual reassignment through surgery and hormone therapy have sexual desires for men, they are not trying to lob off their penis to then wear a dildo and get it on with women. They feel (emotion based sexual identity) they are female and they want their sexual organs to reflect that self impression; and as a male changed into what they falsely think is a woman, they want to be the recipients of male to female sexual relations.[/quote]
I've already quoted the Lawrence paper that contradicts this bald assertion. A summary of the results, in a convenient HTML form, are at
[url=http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2007/01/statistics-and-sex-changing.html]my blog[/url]
You asked for "objective scientific data". I've provided mine. Would you mind providing yours, please?

This isn't about "winning an argument", it's about our best guess at objective truth. I've already had my opinions changed several times as new data has come in. But I do require some proof.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 23:39:54 -0000

I agree that the Kinsey study was flawed. I made no mention of it.

I was tempted to write off that argument as a "Straw Man", but reading the rest of your post, you raise a very valid point.

Academia has been infested with "Political Corectness" now to such an extent that finding objective data on anything to do with Human Sexuality has become very difficult. The PC view is that Gender is a social construct, and biology has little to do with it. It was only recently that the President of Harvard was hounded out of office for mentioning "Inconvenient Truths" about biology.

The trouble is that no research is being done in the USA on this topic. The American Psychiatric Association relies on figures from overseas that are 40 years old when it estimates prevalence of HBS.

There are two main sources of funding for research. The first is conservative philanthropic institutions, and they want nothing to do with such Freaks as myself. The second is left-wing academia, and any research that might contradict their post-modernist views on Gender as a Social Construct cannot be allowed to happen.

Now Anne Lawrence is a controversial figure in her own right, and I disgree with much of her analysis. But she'd academically honest (albeit mistaken in my view) and her data gathering is rigorous and exacting.

The problem is that you've asked for objective evidence, yet automatically reject anything not confirming your eccentric views, unread, as being biased.

The way to fight bias is with facts. That is why I asked you for your own data. If it doesn't exist, then you should seriously question whether you are prejudiced - conclusions first, facts afterwards (if ever).

As for Singapore, you seem to be mistaken. It was a world leader in treatment for HBS in the 70's,though this is changing.[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_Singapore]Wikipedia[/url] is not the most reliable of sources (to say the least), but it gives links to primary sources which [b]are[/b] reliable.
[quote]In 1973, Singapore legalized sex-reassignment surgery. A policy was instituted to enable post-operative transsexual people to change the legal gender on their identity cards (but not their birth certificates) and other documents which flowed from that. There was no specific provision in the statutes which allowed the Registrar to do this, so it existed probably only at the level of a policy directive. However, for over 20 years, this policy seemed to have operated smoothly
...
Transgender people were officially granted their wish (to have their marriages validated) on 24 January 1996 via an announcement by MP Abdullah Tarmugi without much public fanfare or opposition.
...
The Gender Identity Clinic (GIC)at the National University Hospital quietly closed in 2001. The official explanation was that the gynaecologist in charge had left for private practice, and without him, the clinic did not have the skills to perform SRS. However, as early as 1987, the Ministry of Health had been directing hospitals to stop doing such operations on foreigners. It also discouraged them for Singaporeans, saying 'the increased danger of AIDS with such patients poses unnecessary risk to hospital staff'.
...
The transgender community petitioned for the GIC to be reopened and were successful, with the clinic discreetly resuming it services in 2003, helmed by Dr. Ilancheran. However, owing to the discrimination against transgender people in Singapore even within some segments of the medical community, the high financial outlay involved and the necessity for psychological clearance, many preferred to have their operations performed sans the hassles in Bangkok, which had by then become the première centre for SRS.[/quote]
From [url=http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2005/yax-457.htm]Yawningbread.org[/url] : [quote]Vitit didn't seem to be aware that Singapore has recorded the change in status for over 30 years, and recognises marriages of sex-changed persons as well.

As my friend Russell Heng remarked, "Even when Singapore does something right, nobody knows, and they don't get any credit for it."

I suspect the Singapore government doesn't want anyone to know. They may think it embarrassing that there was ever a time when they were liberal-minded. In these days when the government takes pride in their homophobia, this stain on their past behaviour is best hidden away. Just like a woman with a past.[/quote]
Please do some research and make sure what you know is true actually is true before stating an opinion.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 03:56:27 -0000

Neiman wrote :
[quote]I mentioned it before but as to Dr. Barres, in the West no scholar or scientist will get published and they will have their careers ended if they violate liberal orthodoxy by producing results contrary to accepted homosexual dogma.[/quote]
Er.. my point was that Dr Ben Barres was born Barbara Barres. TS men don't stand out, even when in plain sight. Even when someone metaphorically sends up signal rockets, sounds sirens and waves flags to draw your attention to them. Statistically insignificant? I think not. You just refuse to see them.

I freely admit that I've made an idiot of myself in public before now, especially when over-tired, so you're not alone. The important thing is to learn from your embarrassing mistakes.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 11:48:00 -0000

Pilgrim - I think that in Texas they'd say he was "all hat, and no cattle".

He's harmless. There [b]are[/b] people who want to see me exterminated, and if they had the chance, would actually take action to that effect. But not this one.

It's not the nazi-wannabes that I fear: it's the genuine Eichmanns, the bureaucrats to whom I'm subhuman filth, an "it".

The Australian Passport Office doesn't issue passports to people like me: the Australian Passports Determination 2005 states that it is "unnecessary or undesirable" to give passports to those being extradited, deported, repatriated, or who are Transgendered. Instead they give a "Document of Identity" that only a few countries recognise as a travel document, and which does not guarantee right of re-entry back into the country.

If I attempt to enter the US, for example, I have to do it on my UK passport. Now my UK records state that my Birth Certificate says "Boy", even though the sex on my UK passport is "F". Depending on the port of entry, I can not merely be refused entry, but odds are pretty good that I'd be put in a Male holding facility, along with AIDS victims, Drug Addicts, and Psychos.

Such things have happened, with the predictable results. What's so unfair is that airline security won't even allow a glass sliver through so you can open your veins and end it quickly.

There are people I fear: this guy isn't one of them.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:02:45 -0000

Neiman - Once more you conflate Homosexuality with Transsexuality. Unlike Singapore.

To recap, you asserted that Transsexuality was a Capital Crime in Singapore, and so cast doubt on any data from there. That was an error.

I gave you the stats showing how many TS women were lesbian, bi, and straight. Your assertion that it's all about "un-natural lust" is contrary to the data, and argument by mere repetition of unsubstantiated opinion is not helpful.
[quote]Transsexuality is unnatural, a violation of both Natural Design (Evolution) and Divine Design (Creation), it is perverse (consciously deviating from the natural course), based solely on sexual desire (lust); it is a lifestyle choice versus a genetic defect, and it bears social, moral and economic costs that no moral and decent people should knowingly approve.[/quote]
I agree about the costs. No moral or decent person should approve of the discrimination, nay, persecution that we face. Yet many do. Good, God-Fearing people going to Good, God-Fearing churches. Probably at least a substantial minority, and possibly a majority of those reading this, in fact.

*Sigh* One more time.

Please have a look at the paper
Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus(PDF) Kruijver F.P.M, Zhou J.-N, Pool C.W., Swaab D.F. (2000)

I gave you the link in a previous post. But the title says it all. This data, which subsequent experiments have confirmed, shows that TS women have in some ways brains that are female. Gay guys do not - their equivalent structure is male.

I too doubt that the syndrome is genetic, though there may be a genetic component. After all, stress increases the probability of occurrence, so it must be at least partly environmental. Fully 1 in 5 of chromosomally male foetuses exposed to the drug DiEthylStilbestrol (DES) in the first trimester end up as Transsexual women, a happenstance only comparable with the effects of Thalidomide on the development of limbs.

See Kerlin S.P: The Presence of Gender Dysphoria, Transsexualism, and Disorders of Sexual Differentiation in Males Prenatally Exposed to Diethylstilbestrol: Initial Evidence from a 5-Year Study [url=http://www.antijen.org/transadvocate/id33.html]link[/url]
[quote]Lastly, while I believe the sexual behavior (homosesxuality) behind a transsexual lifestyle is condemned by God, I believe He loves everyone, even people of your particular lifestyle choice and is always ready to offer His salvation to everyone, or being a sinner of great magnitude myself, I could not have been saved.[/quote]
Tell me, do you condemn those Transsexual women attracted to other women as Lesbian? Or those attracted to men as Gay? What about the many TS women who are 47xxy, not 46xx (F) or 46xy (M)? What about the many TS women who are mosaics (and a few chimerae) so have both 46xx and 46xy cells in their bodies? What about those men who have 5ARD or 17BHD deficiency, so look female when young, before a natural change masculines them - sometimes after marriage?

Not everyone who is TS is also Intersexed in other ways; but the chances are greatly increased compared with the general population. And tragically, a significant number of us were surgically made transsexual by well-meaning surgeons confronted with an infant with ambiguous genitalia. They should wait till they know the gender of the child, that's usually by age 3-7. But all too often the surgery is performed based on guesswork within the first month of life.

As for me, I just have to have faith that the promise in Isaiah 56:4-5 will be kept. (KJV)
[quote]4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.[/quote]The pun at the end is, I'm sure, intentional.

For that matter see Matthew 19:12.
[quote]None of this means that I would approve of any hateful act or attitude towards any homosexual, lesbian or transgendered person, that I would approve denying them jobs, housing and [u]equal[/u] civil rights.[/quote]Part of me is tempted to say "That's mighty White of you, Cousin". But that would demean me even more than anything you might have done, and I'm sorry that the thought crossed my mind. Yes, we are all imperfect, all sinners. Instead I'll just give you my thanks, and also my respect. You may not have shown understanding, but you've shown something much harder, and more worthy. Tolerance (which does [b]not[/b] mean acceptance). Humanity. Hating the Sin, but loving the Sinner. I think He would approve.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 21:45:00 -0000

Hi Neiman! It seems we have a few points of agreement. That surgical intervention on Intersexed children should wait till we know what gender they are, so we don't surgically create transsexuals. That being TS is certainly not completely genetic, that there is a large foetal environmental component and quite possibly no genetic cause at all. Both propositions are backed up by mountains of evidence - even if it does come from Lefties sometimes.

I also agree that fornication is sinful, even though practiced almost universally, but that's me. Sodomy I don't consider a sin, just icky and distasteful, again a personal preference. Onanism - that is [i]coitus interruptus[/i] not masturbation, is probably not a sin, as it was prohibited by the same kind of "old law" that prohibits wearing polycotton shirts, and requires the death of kids who mouth off at their parents.

I'm actually revoltingly conventional and staid, which I think makes my whole situation quite ironic. Homophobic too, but I never let my ugly little prejudice there stop me from treating people as people, not cyphers or things.
[quote]If they are female as to sexual organs and have gender reassignment to have male genitals, they remain female and yes they are Lesbians (a woman who is sexually attracted to other women)as I understand that term .[/quote]I referred to TS women. That is, those whose birth certificates said "male", and who usually have 46xy chromosomes. After sex reassignment, if they retain their attraction to other women, as a substantial fraction do, are they now lesbian? They are quite capable of sexual relations, just in a lesbian fashion. Some in fact would never have been capable of orgasm with male genitalia, it feels so terribly perverse to have it. Others would never have had normal male genitalia in the first place.

Sorry to confuse you with such difficult cases, but they do happen, and are not that uncommon. The situation by its very nature is confusing.

My point is, that these women born male aren't attracted to guys at all. Some are butch, others femme, but they're all lesbian. To say that they had surgery so they can engage in "sex with other guys" shows a truly profound level of misunderstanding, as well as an astonishing ability to ignore inconvenient facts.

Now there's a case for saying that TS women who are attracted to men are gay, and those attracted to women are lesbian, so they should remain celibate. I'm not saying it's a good case though, it seems logically inconsistent.

And now for something completely different: getting back on track with the main topic. I hope I've made the case that being TS is not an automatic disqualification from high office. Sure, being TS is terribly traumatising. So is being a POW, or being raped, or being a Cancer survivor. None of those are usually considered disqualifiers, so why should this one be?

Whether the woman concerned is the best person for the job, I don't know. But being TS has at least as many advantages as disadvantages when it comes to qualifying for the position.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 01:13:10 -0000

Neimen wrote:
[quote]After surgery are they Lesbians? You are right, that is a tough one! No matter what I say, I reserve the right to think about it some more and possibly restate my position later.[/quote]
How can anyone rationally do otherwise when posed such a conundrum? It's not as if you've ever considered the question before, and thought of it for years. It would be unreasonable of me or anyone else to force you into a quick, off-the-cuff answer without giving you time to think about it.
[quote]If I understand your proposition correctly, physically they are not Lesbians as it is male to female intercourse; but emotionally they feel they are women making love to women and so I guess they are emotional Lesbians.[/quote]
Exactly. Now, and this is what the crux of feeling TS is like... they feel the same way even when they have male genitalia. Their Church, their Society, their Family pressures them into being what is, to them, Lesbian. That can be awfully confusing in figuring out what is moral. A female brain running on male hormones is often asexual, yet they know that to have children they must pretend to be male, even in the bedroom. Some can. Some can't. But what should be a relaxed, happy and joyful experience is very often anything but. Most can give, but few can receive, they're too busy acting, trying to conform to everyone's expectations. Unless they really are Lesbian, the male hormones can do that to you. It still feels un-natural having a male body though.

Now can you imagine what it must be like for guys? There was about a 1 in 10,000 chance that you would have been in that position. Can you imagine what it must feel like to be "Daddy's Little Girl" when young? When you [b]know[/b] you're a boy? Can you imagine what it must be like to have everyone expecting you to marry and have sex with another guy?

If you can imagine that, if you can imagine a situation where your only chance of having a son so you can take him fishing, or kite flying, or shooting, is to engage in an act so un-natural, so perverse it is abominable to you? Worse, the female hormones in your system bend your mind, making the prospect seem not so bad... and you know that that is happening, and part of you is silently screaming in horror.

See now why so very many of us suicide to stop the torment?

It would be only slightly easier if you were gay. Gay men are Men, not Women. Their brains are male, not female. Being attracted to another guy would seem comfortable, but not having a male body too would be hideous.
[quote]I must say we have had a long, decent, civil debate on this issue; and while we cannot hope to agree on everything, I think it has been educational from both sides and has produced a little better understanding and foundation for communication.[/quote]
Absolutely. And while I appreciate the very human support given me here by various posters, to me you have shown not a shred of hate. I may have been a little vexed at your seeming obtuseness at times, but I'm guilty of having strongly held beliefs myself.

To those who think Niemen here showed hate - consider how you would react if a self-confessed paedophile activist started posting. Someone who your every instinct told you was sick, perverted, evil, and probably insane. Could you have shown the courtesy to another Human Being that Nieman has? For you see, his whole world view depended on seeing me as being at best sick, at worst perverted. Try to see things from his viewpoint.

We still disagree, but he's never been discourteous. Had our positions been reversed, I hope that I would have the same degree of politeness.

Ok, he can be maddeningly obtuse, stubborn, recalcitrant... but those of us who have survived 40 years of being TS tend to be a little strong-minded too.

If Nieman had been born TS, with 46xx (Female) chromosomes, I have no idea what he'd do. Transition early, and let a misunderstanding world do what it may? Or tough it out, being the best wife and mother any Man could be? I don't know. I do know that whatever course he'd decide in, it would be because he felt it was Right. Not comfortable, nor convenient, but Right.

Maybe he's end up on Lynn Conway's [url=http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TransMen.html]Transsexual Men's Successes[/url] page. I hope he has a look at that. Then has a think about his beliefs. Because if he's right, those men are actually girls, and any man sleeping with one would be having straight, not gay, sex.

As for Wetback - perhaps he might like to see the [url=http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSgallery1.html]TS Women's Successes[/url] site, and ponder just how much talent would be "Quarantined" or "Re-settled in the East". There are 10's of thousands of us in the US alone. But because of people like Wetback, most of us are "Stealth". Only a few are <s>stupid</s> brave enough to not hide our past.

Re: If You're Wondering Why Blogging Was So Light Today...

Zoe Brain — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 01:56:09 -0000

Neiman and I have been known to have the odd minor disagreement on another thread. My opinions of "Intelligent Design" are best left unsaid too.

But in this one, I'm with him. That's your child, and if it's a "scrap of tissue", then so are we all. I wish both mother and child a safe pregnancy, and a trouble-free birth.

Congratulations to all concerned!

One thing though - you've got to promise to show us pictures after the birth. Ok, I got a triple dose of Maternal Instinct, but all the same, please post some.

Re: With All Due Haste

Zoe Brain — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 11:46:19 -0000

The Bushmaster has been in service with Australian troops in Iraq for some time now. They're now being upgraded with chilled drinking water facilities, that was the only major(!) deficiency reported by troops who used them.

Send over some C-17s and we could let you have a few dozen now, and as many as we can manufacture in future, a dozen a day.

But of course it's NIH.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:42:55 -0000

Wetback wrote: [quote]Pilgrim: you remind me of that Jew who wrote "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." And the other Jew who got it put on the statue of liberty.[/quote]Oh, someone else with Jews on the brain.
As I said, all Hat, no Cattle.
Last month I was at Haifa Naval Base, actually doing something concrete to help.
You're here, impotently posting hate.
Suits me.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 02:16:01 -0000

I have a request.

More Light, Less Heat.

People's buttons are being pressed - even I've been a bit snarky - and we're losing sight of the idea of a forum like this. To communicate - even if it's only the Horst Wessel Song.

Please let your anger go, and don't sweat the small stuff. Maybe some apologies are in order too. Here, I'll go first;

"I apologise for being snarky, and letting my emotions cloud my judgement"

See, easy isn't it? Especially when it's sincere.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:12:09 -0000

Besides which, it was my impression that gay guys aren't terribly interested in girls. I always did have a (shallow) depth rather than a length when at rest, despite the footballer body. The rest was masculinised, that wasn't. Not completely. But now, after reconstruction, I look normal. Things work now too.

As for me, it's embarrassing to be a 49 year old virgin. I think the odds of ever finding a "Mr Right" are approximately zero though. No matter, I've had true love in my life, and some never get that, no matter how many partners they've had.

Making love with someone you're in love with would be wonderful. But I think that's not scheduled for me, not in this lifetime. Time will tell. Meanwhile, I have a son to parent.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 00:28:11 -0000

Neiman, I agree with most of what you say.
We're not sure what causes TS. We do know that exposure to cross-gendered hormones in the womb is one cause. It's sufficient, but may not be necessary.
Personally, I feel the evidence for multiple causes is strong. The same as for other Intersex conditions.
The fact that so many TS people have other Intersex conditions too suggests a common cause.

Where I disagree with you is in the reversibility. I had enough Androgen insensitivity so that any effective therapeutic dose of testosterone would have likely caused liver failure. It would only have affected my body, not my brain. That's hard-wired in the womb, and although hormones [b]do[/b] cause re-wiring, there are limits. My brain was already as masculine as it was ever going to be, and that wasn't much. It works far better, and I'm far more comfortable, now that I have a blood chemistry that matches the brain's configuration.

I sent you personal data privately, because my own situation is by no means typical, and should not be construed to be normal in any way.

As you can see from the photos, something extremely odd happened. Changes from hormones just cannot happen that fast. I had the equivalent of 3 years change in 3 months. The only hypothesis we have that fits the facts involves two separate and quite common Intersex genetic mutations, which in turn cause an anomalous reaction to a particular medication.

I was lucky to survive. At one stage, the odds against that were pretty high.

Most TS people have at least some ability to control the pace of the change, even if for psychological reasons they feel compelled to transition. I didn't feel the compulsion as strongly as that, but my body changed anyway, as happens in some Intersex conditions. I had no control over the timing, and it was going to happen whether I liked it or not.

Fortunately I'm TS, so I liked it.

Anyway, normalising hormone therapy has been tried to cure TS. As has Lobotoby, Leucotomy, Electro-convulsive therapy, anti-psychotics, MAO and SSR inhibitors, group therapy and so on.

The "best" that can be hoped for is to allow the person concerned to live with genitals of the wrong sex without too much discomfort. Some can, though it gets worse with age, and they transition at age 55 rather than 35. Or die. A lot do that, substance abuse, suicide, the discomfort is terrible. The usual anti-depressants don't work. There have been exactly zero peer-reviewed cases followed up in the long term that showed a "cure" without surgery. There probably are some, but none that we know of definitely.

The only therapy that has shown consistent, reliable improvement is surgery. The worst results (n=12), where the surgery was successful only 1/3 of the time, still show 2/3 of the patients had no regrets 5 years later. The figures for n=1700 over 30 years showed 97% had no regrets.

Now on to something completely different. Notice how just being civil to me can cause you to be labelled "N..ger Lover" or the equivalent? Think about that.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 03:50:18 -0000

Change Genitalia or change Brain?

Leaving aside for the moment that changing the brain with our current level of technology would be like trying to change a motherboard when all you have for a tool is a flint axe and a vial of acid, and the same knowledge of computing as in 1900, that's a good question.

Had there been a pill that would cause my brain to normalise, I would have taken it. That would have meant personal extinction for me, my personality would be changed so much that it wouldn't have been me anymore, but a Man instead. Yet I would have done it. I have a child, and I would literally die for him. Any mother would.

Now in my case, I would have needed another pill, one that would have normalised the rest of the body too. Maybe equipped me with a normal penis, I'm told guys find that important. But that's a minor detail compared to the brain bit.

My body was mostly male. The chromosomes in my bone marrow are 46xy (male), and although there were enough anomalies elsewhere for that not to be conclusive, I think the rest of my body is probably 46xy too. Maybe 70% chance. Not that it matters if it isn't. I had about as good a life pretending to be a guy as any woman could. Before my endocrine system went berserk, I would have done anything to safeguard my son, and my marriage of 26 years. Anything.

After the change, I was more female than male. Enough so I couldn't "pass" as a guy any more, nor even androgenous. Transmen manage to do better with far more feminine bodies, but they have years of practice. I had to cope in weeks, and my heart wasn't in it anyway. I did try though, for a while.

The day before I went fulltime, that is, started presenting as female, I was threatened with rape by a group of drunks. They wanted to "convert" this "Butch Dyke", this "Drag King" from being blatantly Lez to being straight, and they were just the men to do it.

Now my hormones were all over the place at the time, levels only usually seen during pregnancy. The medical team told me not to take so much as an aspirin, my system was chaotic, unstable, and the situation was critically dangerous. Now that I'm on the right hormone mix, I can see this incident in perspective. At the time though, I freaked. I was just wearing my normal office attire, same as I had for 25 years. The Boy Act I'd worked so hard on for over 40 years wasn't working any more.

I no longer passed as male. Even if I looked terrible as a female, I wouldn't be losing anything.

To my surprise, the odd stares and whispers stopped. I looked normal, I blended in without causing comment or looking like something from the Circus or Barnum and Bailey.

Being a "chick with a d..", well, testes anyway, was uncomfy too. I could have lived with it, except the testes internalised, they retracted into the body. That cooks them, and makes testicular cancer more a matter of "when" than "if". They were useless anyway, totally shut down. They had to go.

My choice was to look normal, or freakish, like a Barbie Doll, after surgery. I chose normality.

I had to go to a specialist surgeon overseas. Sex Reassignment from M to F requires a penis to use as the raw material, and what I had was about the same as most 2 year olds. Not enough. There are legal problems too, as medically I was female even before the op, so it doesn't count as Sex Reassignment under the letter of the law. Which means I can't have my Birth Certificate changed.

My case is unusual. Not unique, but one in several million.

The point is that the psych tests showed me to be an absolutely typical TS woman. One of the 20% who never dress in female attire until transition. In terms of my thoughts, feelings and life history, straight out of the book [i]True Selves[/i], a compendium of TS cases. I won't use my peculiar biology as an "excuse" for transition, nor say that this was any hardship. More like a miracle, one I wish other TS women had.

I didn't want to make a big deal of this. Bad enough to be TS without being such a biological oddity. But Neiman referenced the pics I sent to him, and since we're talking about modifying Brain or Body, it's germane.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 05:36:28 -0000

likwidshoe wrote:
[quote]Good luck changing that mindset Zoe. Personally, I don't even think it's worth the effort. Why it's not worth it: he's attributed false motive to your changes ("based solely on sexual desire"), denies your corrections, calls you a sinner, insists that this was all your choice, and insists that "moral people" shouldn't approve of you. Neiman is backed by "God", dontcha know, and he will never change his mind.[/quote]
Thanks so much for your support. I think you're being a little hard on Neiman though. Yes, he said that stuff, but you must take into account his background.

The only exposure he's had to TS people has been to the Jerry Springer Performing Seals, the "Out and Proud" in-your-face GenderBenders and Lefty Queer Activists. He's had second or third hand reports about "SheMale Porn", and news reports of criminals in jail wanting public funding for treatment. He had little knowledge, and less interest in these crazies, irrational leftists and attention-seeking freaks.

He doesn't know, or didn't know, about the neurosurgeons, the Rocket Scientists, the many dozens of Silver Star winners in the military, simply because we don't seek, but shun publicity. Suddenly he's confronted with the assertion that there are not dozens of us, but tens of thousands of us. Some doctors, some scientists, some ministers, and many, many genuine war heroines. This goes against everything he knows.

I can't blame him. 3 years ago, I felt the same. Transition was for showgirls, not Geek Girls like me. Having a "sex change" was out of the question, why, it was more likely I'd convert to Marxism!

Since April 2005, I've had to learn a lot.
[quote]Schroer is extraordinarily well-qualified for the job in question, terrorism research analyst with the Congressional Research Service, a division of the Library. She is a 25-year military veteran, having served in "numerous critical command and staff positions in the Armored Cavalry, Airborne, Special Forces and Special Operations Units, and in combat operations in Panama, Haiti, and Rwanda." She is highly educated, with relevant advanced degrees, and spend the last portion of her military career with the U.S. Special Operations Command, an outfit specifically charged with planning and executing special operations against terrorists. After the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks against the U.S., she was appointed director of a special classified organization to track and target "high-threat international terrorist organizations," and in that position she was analyzing "highly sensitive intelligence reports" and briefing top security officials.[/quote]She's not unusual. Also not unusual is the employer deciding not to hire her when she told them she was TS.

It has its funny side. As a Scumbag Contractor who's spent some time on subs, I'm an honourary bubblehead. A group of us with submarine experience sometimes chat amongst ourselves.

It's hilarious when one guy hits on one of us, and is boasting of his heroic exploits in Subs, when we've had more war patrols than he's had hot feeds.

It has its tragic side too. A gal I know managed to nurse the 2/3 of the A-10 she was piloting that was left after it was hit by an Iraqi SAM back to a crash landing in Gulf War I. She got a Silver Star for that. Now by court order she must bind up her boobs and dress in unconvincing male drag every time she sees her son.

Neiman has suddenly been shown things he knows cannot exist. He's instinctively reacted with tolerance, while remaining highly sceptical. My aim is not to ram my opinions down anyones' gullets. It is merely to elucidate the medical facts, and to be. And just by existing, to cause people to re-evaluate their opinions in the face of the facts. I cannot change their minds; only they can do that. And it takes time.

Frederick Douglas did far more for Civil Rights than Malcolm X. Just by being himself.

It's not easy sometimes. But support from people like you makes it far easier. Thanks.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:26:14 -0000

[i]Zoe tiptoes in, dodging Custard Pies, Brickbats, and the odd Hand Grenade. Slowly she backs out, waiting till things have settled down before she contributes again.[/i]
Boys!!!! Grrrr.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:49:43 -0000

Zsa Zsa wrote:
[quote]How do you go about getting your education rearranged into a different gender? I bet the colleges are NOT all too eager to change that data??? I would think the red tape would ALMOST make one reconsider the entire matter.[/quote]Compared to the other problems, a minor detail.

I'm married, and Australia has something like The DOMA, only marriage is a Federal responsibility here, not a state one.

Also, unlike the DOMA, it was passed with bi-partisan support. If anything, the Leftist Australian Labor Party is even more conservative than the Rightist Liberal Party. Think conservative union construction workers. 1/3 of the Australian population is Catholic, mainly Irish, mainly Leftist.

Divorce is also more difficult here because of that: one partner merely changing their apparent gender has no effect. If one person was legally male when they married another female, the marriage is valid until death or divorce. Divorce requires true separation for a year, no having a coffee together, no doing each others laundry or helping about the house. You must demonstrate that there is zero possibility of being able to live together again, or tolerate one another's presence.

We have a son. Ok, not through intercourse, that wasn't possible for me. But as long as the prospective father has one partially working testis, medical science can do the rest.

Our son comes first. We still love each other, though its [i]Agape[/i] not [i]Eros[/i]. Our little boy loves 3-way cuddles. Until my partner finds a man worthy of being a new father and male role model to our son, divorce is impossible.

Being part of a legal same-sex marriage when same-sex marriage aren't supposed to exist causes all sorts of problems. There are a variety of legal, quasi-legal and downright illegal persecutions that the Government uses to "encourage" divorce. Things like denying me a passport. The Gay lobby is even more hostile, out of jealousy. I can't really blame them, neither of us are Lesbian, yet we're married, while the 2% of all couples here in Canberra who are lesbian aren't allowed to formalise their partnership.

So you can see why the academic stuff is small beer.

Finally, anyone who gets major surgery like this had better not be discouraged by mere documentation issues. It's not risk-free. Some never wake up. More are left unable to walk. More still have to wear a colostomy bag. I had the worst result my surgeon has had in years, requiring revision months later. In the meantime, I had to have abnormal tissue cauterised away periodically.

Having an electric current applied to your fully sensate genitalia (local anaesthetic doesn't work very well, if at all) in order to burn bits of it off was uncomfy. But nowhere near as uncomfy as being TS. Not in the same league.

I still have the stitches from the revision surgery, I've been back home for less than 2 weeks. You have to be prepared for this kind of thing, and I certainly have no regrets!

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:55:57 -0000

Zsa Zsa wrote:
[quote]How do you go about getting your education rearranged into a different gender? I bet the colleges are NOT all too eager to change that data??? I would think the red tape would ALMOST make one reconsider the entire matter.[/quote]Compared to the other problems, a minor detail.

I'm married, and Australia has something like The DOMA, only marriage is a Federal responsibility here, not a state one.

Also, unlike the DOMA, it was passed with bi-partisan support. If anything, the Leftist Australian Labor Party is even more conservative than the Rightist Liberal Party. Think conservative union construction workers. 1/3 of the Australian population is Catholic, mainly Irish, mainly Leftist.

Divorce is also more difficult here becauese of that: one partner merely changing their apparent gender has no effect. If one person was legally male when they married another female, the marriage is valid until death or divorce. Divorce requires true separation for a year, no having a coffee together, no doing each others laundry or helping about the house. You must demonstrate that there is zero possibility of being able to live together again, or tolerate one another's presence.

We have a son. Ok, not through intercourse, that wasn't possible for me. But as long as the prospective father has one partially working testis, medical science can do the rest.

Our son comes first. We still love each other, though its [i]Agape[/i] not [i]Eros[/i]. Our little boy loves 3-way cuddles. Until my partner finds a man worthy of being a new father and male role model to our son, divorce is impossible.

Being part of a legal same-sex marriage when same-sex marriage aren't supposed to exist causes all sorts of problems. There are a variety of legal, quasi-legal and downright illegal persecutions that the Government uses to "encourage" divorce. Things like denying me a passport. The Gay lobby is even more hostile, out of jealousy. I can't really blame them, neither of us are Lesbian, yet we're married, while the 2% of all couples here in Canberra who are lesbian aren't allowed to formalise their partnership.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:57:56 -0000

Is there an echo in here?

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:31:20 -0000

Leveler:

Neiman's .sig may be from a cheesy broadway song, but it's also something of a themesong for TS people - especially the guys.

I must admit that if he keeps on analogising me to a child's rapist, I might start to get miffed.

Nah. He didn't mean it. Just an unfortunate turn of phrase.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:30:51 -0000

HG wrote:
[quote]Zoe is a man who couldn't hack being so and decided to change into who he thinks he is.[/quote]
Partly true.
I tried doing the Boy Act for 47 years. Eventually I couldn't any more. As a friend of Christine Daniels said [i]"You fight this thing for 40 years. Then you lose."[/i]

I've given evidence of differences in the brain' structure, both coarse and fine, associated with this - whether it's treated or not. I've shown that some drugs can cause TS, the same way Thalidomide causes phocomelia.

It's true that my chromosomes are 46xy. But it's also true that my endocrine system became closer to normal female than normal male before treatment. That nearly killed me.

Given the [u]NATURAL[/u] change shown here:

[IMG]http://aycu12.webshots.com/image/23651/2004893642899739304_rs.jpg[/IMG]

The Hormones I had in August were 1/8 of the full dose, which started in January. Just enough to see if I could tolerate them, not enough to cause a change. Enough to reset the wildly swinging levels though, possibly saving my life. I stopped losing a pound a day, the fevers and night sweats went away too.

Anyway, given that change, and the fact that since age 7 I'd always considered myself female, and the fact that I was Intersexed... what the heck should I have done?

What I did do was just to relax, stop pretending, just be me, whatever that was. M, F, some freak in between, whatever. As it turns out, I'm far more feminine than I ever thought possible. Had I known this, I would have transitioned volitionally a long time ago, instead of having it happen to me.

But that means I would not have had a child. So it turned out for the best.

I must emphasise that that set of shots is not normal for transition. The changes over 7 months [i]without[/i] a therapeutic does of HRT were more than many get over 3 years [i]with[/i] HRT. The usual rate is about the same as that in Puberty.</textarea>

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 22:05:30 -0000

WETBACK

Yes, I'm talking to you. Neimen's lesson tolerance for the unacceptable may be rubbing off on me.
[quote]I stand by what I said in the name of every healthy civilization. What I prescribe is a cheap and effective solution to deal with the dangers of the lifestyle that these people display.

If any of you suggest that we ought to ship them to some island giving them the opportunity to live or die by there own hands, then I will agree to this so long as we wash our hands of them once they get dropped off there. [/quote]The [url=http://history1900s.about.com/od/holocaust/a/madagascarplan.htm]Madagascar plan[/url], eh? Not very original. You're right though, it's less [i]extreme[/i] (s you put it) than Auschwitz. Except that you proposed dropping them - or rather us - without giving us any help. Like food. Clothing. Medicine. Am I right in thinking that you'd rather not see us starve to death, you'd prefer we do it quietly, out of sight, so the smell of rotting corpses doesn't bother you?

Some TS kids are only 4 years old. I can see how watching them die might cause psychological stress. It did to [i]Einsatzgruppen[/i] too, their suicide rate was too high. That's why the Death Camps were started.
[quote]Most of you know what it means to see a hundred corpses lying together, five hundred, or a thousand. To have gone through this and yet - apart from a few exceptions, examples of human weakness - to have remained decent fellows, this is what has made us hard. This is a glorious page in our history that has never been written and shall never be written
[i]Heinrich Himmler[/i][/quote]
Or did you mean to put us in some deadly place, to "quarantine" us as you put it, to "concentrate" us away from the healthy population. In a "concentration camp".

Tell me please, what is your attitude towards those with other Intersex conditions, apart from Harry Benjamin Syndrome (Transsexuality)? Serious question, I'm not baiting you, or trying to trap you. Does it make any difference if it's genetic as opposed to mere happenstance?

Everyone knows that Transsexual people exist. The condition's too spectacular when it gets treated for us to be invisible.

But the Intersexed are invisible, or nearly so. Our best estimate is that [url=http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency]1.7% of the population have Intersex conditions[/url], usually minor, usually asymptomatic or nearly so.

Have you had a Karyotype lately? If not, you can't be certain that you're not one of them. You could be a 47xxy/46xy mosaic, and not know it. It's unlikely, but you could even be genetically female (46xx) with a translocated Sry complex on another gene. As far as I know you're not Gay, but unless you've had a Karyotype, you can't be sure you're not Lesbian (at least by some definitions).

Only about 1 in 10 of those with an Intersex condition have problems from it. Most never know - though they may be unable to have children. Some can though.

Some, with [url=http://www.bhj.org/journal/2004_4602_april/html/alpha_239.htm]5ARD[/url] or 17BHD deficiency are born looking female. They may even get married, if they have a late puberty.

Because at puberty, they masculinise, the testes descend fromwhat appeared to be a vagina, they grow beards, the works. A few can even be fathers.

Is this a "[i]lifestyle choice[/i]"?

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 22:57:32 -0000

WETBACK wrote:
[quote]For the record, nobody defended me. And for that reason alone, I know I am on the right path. Let the world hate me, because I am not of this world, and proudly so.[/quote]
They laughed at Newton! They laughed at Einstein! Yes, but they also laughed at Coco the Clown.

Malignant Narcissism, and a Martyr complex which sees the rest of the world as being wrong and unfair, is a feature of many psychological illnesses. It's also a feature of radical Islam, and some of the more militant and less rational minority groups. "For the Race, everything, for the rest, nothing." as the Aztlan nutters say. The sense of Racial Superiority, the Great and the Good oppressed by the subhuman filth who should really be their slaves (or exterminated altogether), that's a feature too.

Neiman has it right though. It's possible that some of the same symptoms can be caused by people actually being oppressed.

The Nazis have been demonised, and rightly so in view of Auschwitz. But we cannot understand them unless we realise that they were acting out of the highest motives. As did Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban, and for that matter, Pol Pot. Bin Laden was out to cleanse the world of the Ungodly, to get rid of the sinners and fornicators, the pimps, panderers, and purveyors of pornography. Ok, so he believes that an exposed female elbow is pornographic, but that's because Allah tells him so. The rest of the world may think him a bloodthirsty Loony, but he [i]knows[/i] he's right, [i]becuase[/i] he's so alone. Well, apart from the millions who think he's right.

Recognise anyone there?

Just as the Utopian idealistic Left can become Pol Pots out of the best of motives, so we on the Right can become corrupted, also out of the best of motives.

You were subject to what has been rightly called a posting "gang bang", or words to that effect. Now there are two ways you can react to that. The first is all too human, to react with righteous anger which all too easily becomes hatred. The second is to try to prove to others that you have a point, by acting in accordance with your highest ideals. I think it's called "turning the other cheek". For one thing, it riles your opponents far more than mere name calling, so you get the guilty pleasure out of discomfiting them while appearing almost saintly. Dr Martin Luther King was a past master of it.

Many have asked how I could tolerate the verbal slings and arrows that have come my way. Most of it is that it's small stuff, I have genuine problems that make it negligible. "Sticks and stones" has real meaning for me, X-rays of my skull still show the damage I took from being beaten unconscious with a crowbar at age 8. That happens to TS girls, they don't "Vibe right" as boys even then. As I said, I have a typical TS life history.

Part of it though is insufferable smugness that I'm better than the ones insulting me. I'm a very flawed individual, as are we all. It helps to be scrupulously honest about your own motives - to engage in introspection, and not deceive yourself that you're better than you are.

I ask you to have a look inside yourself. Then if you're still so very sure that you're right, that extermination is a moral act as Himmler said it was, Publish and be Damned. I know you won't actually [b]do[/b] anything about it though: talk is cheap, and I bet you've never killed anyone in your life.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 23:53:16 -0000

HG wrote
[quote]you're free to live it as whatever sex you wish to be in America[/quote]Um.. HG.. don't know how to tell you this... but [b]I'm Australian[/b]. I'll let others decide if the rest of your post is equally accurate.

I've been compared with rapists and child molestors before now. But Edwards is a... a... a... Lawyer. (cough spit)

That's pretty low. Never mind, at least no-one's called me a Lefty.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:12:19 -0000

HG wrote
[quote]The thing that always amazes me is why many who suffer from a sexuality identity crisis tend to dump it on society. If you're happy being a medical experiment in sexuality then why does everyone need to know about it? Why does every man-made sexuality need to be general knowledge?[/quote]Because of stories like this. Because of the prurient interest Society has in our medical past.

Look at the original story. The new Police Commissioner's fitness or otherwise for office has been discussed entirely within the context of her medical condition.

I'd like nothing better than to be stealth, just another woman. It's what all but a handful of TS people dream of, to be treated normally. But that's not the case, except for those who make supreme efforts to hide their past.

Tell about our situation and we're publicity-hounds. Don't tell, and we're deceivers infiltrating society.

Have a look at my [url=http://cs.anu.edu.au/~Zoe.Brain/]page at the Uni[/url]. I don't advertise my situation, but I don't hide it. There's links to my blog, where I often discuss TS issues, and another to a page on IS and TS human rights. But apart from that, I'm [url=http://cs.anu.edu.au/people.php]just another female academic[/url], and that suits me fine.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:25:28 -0000

HG wrote:
[quote]I like the attempt to equate a geographical assumption with the accuracy of my opinion on sexuality.[/quote]Did you? I didn't think you would. Hardly an "assumption" anyway, for if you'd read my posts it was obvious. So either you're making opinions without looking at the data, or are showing carelessness.
[quote]The two are hardly related.[/quote]Carelessness or lack of observation in one area though does cast doubt on others. That's why I thought it best to leave it up to others to decide whether it had any bearing or not. In this particular case, I think it does, but I'm hardly unbiased.
[quote]Such tactics are typical of lefty political debate.[/quote]
Right, that's it. You can call me late for dinner, but don't compare me with Lefties. That's fighting talk.

Note to self: what this place needs is some <humour> and <sarcasm> tags.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 00:48:13 -0000

HG wrote
[quote]Nobody here would have known about your wish to be a woman if you hadn't advertised it complete with photos, and links to your life story.[/quote]Well, after Neimen posted a link to the photos taken from a private message I'd sent him, there didn't seem much point not doing. There had been a full feline containment breach. In Australia, it's considered Bad Form to quote private messages without asking permission first, obviously it's different here. Lesson learnt.

But there's another thing. Supposing a story had been written about whether someone's history as a Prostate Cancer survivor made them more or less fit to be a 3rd assistant dog catcher, with many saying that obviously it disqualified them.

Wouldn't a person who actually was a prostate cancer survivor posting about their life story, with medical links etc be germane? Or would they too be considered "publicity hounds"?

My story is as relevant here as it is irrelevant in the other places on this forum I've posted to. I didn't mention it there.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 01:08:56 -0000

HG wrote:
[quote][quote]That's fighting talk.[/quote]

Your masculinity is showing.[/quote]What can I say? Pretend to be a guy for 47 years, well, some old habits die hard.

Besides which, I can tell you've never been on some women's forums. Or even read their blogs. Gals say it too.

My chromosomes are male, nothing can alter that, but many other women have the same problem, even though some have born children. I'll never be able to bear children, though many other women can't do that either, even if they are chromosomally female. My brain's area dictating gender is female, but there are other bits that are more typically male. That's true of a lot of female engineers.

I gave up doing the Boy Act. I've had enough of pretending, and I won't conform to some saccherine Doris Day stereotype just in order to conform with some MCP's idea of femininity. I guess you could say I'm secure enough in my own womanhood, such as it is, not to worry too much about it.

That was an attempt to prove that I was what, "an effeminate guy"? Well they go around saying "that's fighting talk" all the time, right?

Can you honestly imagine John Edwards saying that? :)

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 01:54:49 -0000

robert perry wrote:
[quote], but let's take a serious look at this man. He's walked away from his wife and three children, and the world's best predictor of crime is fatherlessness. He's called to help police sex crimes despite having run a sex toys business. Think some of the "borderline" crimes might get under-policed?[/quote]Oh wait, that was a different robert arguing the issues.

robert109 wrote:
[quote]I have made an argument why the TS police commissioner might not be qualified for that job[/quote]Really? Where? Could you give me some URLs please? There's stuff about "quarantine not leading to the [i]Endlosung[/i]", true enough, though from what WETBACK said later, that's what he had in mind when he said it.

There's some stuff about "physiological" vs "anatomical" differences between males and females. Better would be the large scale structure (size of BSTc layer in hypothalamus) and fine-scale (number of neurons in limbic nucleus). These have been the subject of several papers showing TS women are typically female, Gay men typically male in these areas.

Not that has anything to do with someone's fitness to hold office, except as evidence that they're not bonkers.

There was something along the lines of "how can you be an activist for something you have no choice in". Like skin colour, perhaps?

There was something about personal responsibility, an area dear to my heart. There is always a choice - but when the choice is burning to death in the WTC, or taking the plunge, is that choice really a choice at all?

The rest is
[quote]typical leftie distraction in place of reasoned debate.
...
You really are Chomskyesque, you know.
...
As is typical of lefties...
...
Non-responsive leftie talking points from Sparkie, as usual. ...
You lefties try to twist it to suit your partisan propaganda purposes, though.[/quote]Then Finally [quote]Personal spats aside, isn't anyone bothered by the fact that this police commissioner apparently has poor impulse control? I know I have faced a great many disappointments in life, but have never undergone plastic surgery to try to resolve them. I'm sure feeling like a woman in a man's body is pretty traumatic, but how one deals with such frustration is a test of character. This person obviously honors feelings over reason, and is thus suspect as a police commissioner, I would think.[/quote]At last! Arguing the issue! What's more, some points I didn't address.

[u]Poor impulse control[/u]? Transitioning is something that takes a number of years, as I've said in the past. Minimum 15 months before surgery, but the changes from hormones take 5-7 years. Impulse? Hardly.

[u]Plastic Surgery[/u]? You've had disappointments, but if you had an accident that esmasculated you, would you call surgical re-attachment merely "cosmetic surgery"? If you were offered a vagina instead, would you think that it didn't matter to you?

[u]Trauma and a test of character[/u] : It is traumatic, and many, perhaps most, suicide. We know it's at least 30%, a Western Australian figure that took into account substance abuse made it 90%. Those who survive, successfully transition, and even build a business afterwards pass that particular test of character very well. If we didn't, we'd be dead.

[u]Feelings vs Reason[/u]: One of the things we're known for, even our critics give us that, is the 2 standard deviation increase in IQ, plus great creativity. We honour both rationality and empathy. it's a natural consequence of a brain neither quite wholly male, nor quite wholly female. Of course these are averages, there are TS people who are thick, dull, and/or psychopathic. You have to look at the individual concerned.

There I cannot help, I don't know enough about the person. Those who are too emotional don't make it though.

It sounds to me as if you've made the decision to reject this person on other grounds, then cast around for reasons to do so. But I could be wrong.

Then again, in-your-face Gay Activism gets my goat too. If I was as over-dosed with it as you are, I might do the same.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 02:08:04 -0000

HG wrote:
[quote]I'm arguing for the privacy of sexuality.[/quote]
Apart from saying that I'm not Lesbian (despite being married to another woman), where have I talked about sexuality?

Perhaps you should address Niemen et al, who seem to think that sex is what it's all about. Now it is part of it, but not all, not even the biggest part.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:36:15 -0000

Niemen: Your graceful apology is, of course, accepted.
I've been known to make worse mistakes, for which others have been kind enough to forgive me.
It would be hypocracy to criticise the speck in your eye while ignoring the beam in my own.
De Nada, Nichevo, Es Macht Nichts, Mai Pen Rai, or as we say in Australia, No Worries. :)

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:45:17 -0000

robert108 - you do bring up a good point. A TS Police commissioner in SF would be just as likely to be sympathetic to TS people there as, say, a Chinese Police commissioner in 1920 would be sympathetic to Chinese Americans.

OTOH they would be less likely to have patience with TS criminals, they wouldn't buy the "Poor little me" defence.

Think Condoleeza Rice's attitudes towards Black professional victims. Not everyone who's born with socio-economic disadvantages become criminal. She made it. Others can too.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:04:28 -0000

robert108 wrote:
[quote]I would like to point out that those who have responded to this subject with hate are also driven by their feelings over rationality. How do you like it?[/quote]
Not particularly, though I've seen worse. It's all too human.

Ah, but I'm TS remember, just like the new Police commissioner. Thus weak of character, and valuing feelings over rationality, according to you.

Whether my posts have shown rationality or emotion-laden irrationality, I'll leave others to judge. I can't convince by saying anything, words have little weight. I can only be who I am, and let others decide whether people like me are to be banned from all public office, or not.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:24:24 -0000

I'll be a bit mischeivous, and had better give a big disclaimer here. The following situation is emphatically [b]not[/b] comparable, the similarities are purely superficial. It's just that robert108's point about emotion vs rationality rang a bell.
[quote]Opponents of women's suffrage like Pauline Wells played on deep-seated fears and emotions among Texans. Women, they said, were temperamentally inferior to men. They were governed by emotion, not logic, and were too shallow and irresponsible to be trusted with the responsibility of voting.[/quote]As I said, any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

And don't anyone dare say that she was right.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:12:57 -0000

robert108, as regards "disadvantaged groups", do you have any idea how much hormones, surgery, the mandatory psych tests etc cost?

$60,000-$120,000, depending on age. The younger, the cheaper, less to undo (facial hair, facial feminisation surgery etc).

Now imagine a girl of 15, who's just been chucked out of home for being a disgrace to the family. Bad enough to be a Homo, let alone some kind of freak. Where's this middle-school dropout going to find that kind of money?

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:44:27 -0000

robert108 wrote:
[quote]Male and Female aren't fuzzy categories; they are the building blocks of our civilization.[/quote]
But for those with CAIS, CAH, mixed gonadal dysgenesis, persistent mullerian duct syndrome, Kleinfelter Syndrome, Swyer syndrome, Harry Benjamin Syndrome, and the really strange serial hermaphrodites with 5ARD, 17BHD deficiency, or IPSR (Ideopathic Partial Sex Reversal) where we only have guesses for what the heck causes it, those aren't building blocks; they're millstones that we're ground between, just because we were born that way.

I'll quote again from [url=http://search2.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/DeakinLRev/2004/22.html#Heading437]Justice Chisolm[/url]:
[quote]I agree with Ms Wallbank that in the present context the word "man" should be given its ordinary contemporary meaning. In determining that meaning, it is relevant to have regard to many things that were the subject of evidence and submissions. They include the context of the legislation, the body of case law on the meaning of "man" and similar words, the purpose of the legislation, and the current legal, social and medical environment. These matters are considered in the course of the judgment. I believe that this approach is in accordance with common sense, principles of statutory interpretation, and with all or virtually all of the authorities in which the issue of sexual identity has arisen. As Professor Gooren and a colleague put it:-

[quote]"There should be no escape for medical and legal authorities that these definitions ought to be corrected and updated when new information becomes available, particularly when our outdated definitions bring suffering to some of our fellow human beings".'[/quote][/quote]

We're not out to change society, or to re-make it in our own image (SHUDDER). We just want to find a place in it, usually as normal men, normal women, and only for a very few, normal androgynes. A handful of us are comfortable as neither sex, and given the Biological Joker that they were dealt with in Life's hand, I think they have the right to so identify. But the vast majority don't want that, we want to be as normal as possible, while knowing that complete normality is forever beyond our reach. As it is for many other men and women, those who are sterile or barren.[quote]It's still a matter of choice to take any specific action(or any action at all) on this condition.[/quote]True. In my case, I wanted to be a normal woman, not some gender-bending "thing" stuck halfway. Had I not taken the action I did, I'd be condemned even more. I must admit though, societal pressure had little to do with my decision. Even had it been possible to get all my documentation in order without surgery, I still would have had it. I needed surgery to remove the pre-cancerous testes anyway, and to re-plumb the urinary tract due to atrophy in other areas.

Had the police commissioner been a man with gyneacomastea who had surgery to reduce his breast tissue, would you say that he was letting emotion rule over rationality?

I must emphasise once more though that despite my unusual biology, that where it matters, in my head, I'm identical to all other TS women. Identical to non-TS women too, in most ways, it's just the life history that's incongruent.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:36:03 -0000

For someone who chooses not to pay attention, you sure have been posting a lot about it. Methinks the Lady protesteth too much. Or Gentleman, as the case may be.

If my problems, and the problems of the incoming police commissioner are irrelevant to you, how come you've become involved so much with the debate?

And, while we're on it, I'm Australian. The implication that I could want you to pay for something for me beggars belief.

As fpr victimology, the second time you've mentioned that, in order to be as victim, you must acquiesce to that. I've never done that, and hopefully never will. To that end, I try to lay facts before such as yourself. I admit that it helps that I've had so much support from family, friends, and colleagues, so I have the luxury of being able to help others, and not be too wrapped up in my own problems.

Even if those others are on the other side of the Pacific.

However, none of what I've said in this post contributes to informing other people, so I'll leave it at that.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:11:01 -0000

To those who confuse Gays with the Intersexed and Transsexual, here's s bio from [url=http://katrinarose.podomatic.com/?badge=1]Katrina Rose[/url][quote][b]The Too-Accurate-For-Fox-News Auto-Bio of Katrina Rose[/b]
There once was a girl from Nantucket who, owing to bad luck, bad karma or maybe even a bad in utero bet on the 1964 presidential election (or some really screwed-up combination thereof), was born nowhere near Nantucket and not looking enough like a girl for the doctor who delivered her to realize that she was a girl. And, so went the first 33½ years of my life. Was it good for you too? Actually, along the way I kept several breweries in business throughout the 1980s, snagged an Environmental Design degree from Texas A&M University, painted a few paintings, sold a few photographs, procured a law degree from a school that wanted to be part of (but couldn't quite pull it off) Texas A&M University, and shook off enough of that bad luck, bad karma and whatever was left from that LBJ-AuH20 bet to be able to become the real me. And then I learned how screwed up the world really was -- and is. This, naturally, led me to I'd Rather Be a Trans Flake Than a Trans Fake, a show that shines light on the one thing that the Gay Rights Industry™ doesn't want to be discussed: that, almost four decades after the Stonewall Riots, the Gay Rights Industry™ doesn't give a damn if transgendered people live or die. And it damn sure doesn't care if we're included in civil rights legislation or not. And it sure as shit doesn't care if we're harmed by its increasingly insane efforts to win gay marriage rights. I'm a research geek-ess who has published a bunch of law review articles on trans law. I also still have that law degree -- and a couple of law licenses. But, remember: this show isn't legal advice; its analysis of reality. Okay, there's a bit of humor and music (some trans, some non-trans) too. But, you will definitely find no kind words for those who claim to be friends and supporters of transsexuals and transgendered people but who are actually anything -- and everything -- but.[/quote]Now I'm Right of Centre, not Left like her. I'm a Scientist and Engineer, not a Lawyer. And I prefer Geekette to Geek-ess. But otherwise, my views are much the same, though less venomous. She writes with far too much vitriol, and her Leftist BDS gets my goat too. She has a point though:
From [url=http://transadvocate.com/blog/2007/08/13/reality-check-aisle-5/]Transadvocates[/url]:[quote]During the Presidential Forum, The Human Rights Campaign treated transgender people with the same respect they always have. Transgender concerns received just as much attention as the bark beetle and judging by the attention that we both received, it seems as though we are both going to be exterminated.[/quote]
From [url=http://transadvocate.com/autumnsandeen/archives/852#more-852]an article by Jonathan Capehart[/url], one of the HCA's questioners in the debate: [quote]The gay community has been abuzz with talk that state Sen. Tom Duane (D-Manhattan) is trying to kill the Sexual Orientation Non-Discrimination Act. That's right. A champion of gay rights potentially standing in the way of gay rights.
...
The nondiscrimination legislation has been knocking around Albany for more than 30 years. It would add sexual orientation to the state's human rights law and protect gays from discrimination in employment, housing and education. It is this close to becoming law. But the delicate deal devised to ensure its passage could collapse - thanks to Duane.

He should know better. Duane is openly gay. He's even a sponsor of the bill. So what's his deal?

Duane says he's fighting like mad "for inclusive language" that would add transgendered people to those protected by the law. It's estimated that the transgendered - from transsexuals to those who live as the opposite gender to those whose behavior doesn't conform to traditional gender roles - comprise up to 1% of the population, according to Gender Education and Advocacy.
...
The senator's fight puts the protection of gays and lesbians throughout the state at risk.

"I'm not trying to stop SONDA," he said recently. "What have I been in office for? It's been a part of my platform."

But the eleventh-hour amendment could undermine that platform. That's why Duane should put off his transgender activism until after the bill is passed. Untold numbers of gays and lesbians around the state need legal protection. It's long overdue.[/quote]

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Thu, 16 Aug 2007 00:21:48 -0000

The result of this kind of thing:[quote]I was not fired because of real or perceived sexual orientation but I was fired specifically based on my gender expression. The Human Resource department was very careful in being explicit as to why I was being fired. My story of anti-transgender discrimination isn't unique, there are hundreds just like it. So I ask you, where do we go to demand these rights? Where exactly was I supposed to go to demand justice for losing a job where I had spent years working holidays and weekends, sacrificing time that could have been spent with my family?[/quote]If she was a Gay Guy, this would have been illegal in Massachusetts, the strong Gay Lobby there has seen to that.

That's why it's so ironic that the initial story said [quote]I do not care about the homosexual implications of the whole thing.[/quote]Anti-Gay Activists universally say we're Gay, so should not be protected against discrimination. Gay Activists universally say we're not Gay, so should not be protected like they should.

It's ironic to see agreement between two such disparate parties.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 00:31:08 -0000

Hi Joanna! Yes, there is Strength in Unity, but really we have such different concerns from the GLB majority that it takes a special place to make things work.

Tell me, how are the Intersexed treated in SF? Here in Australia, there is a natural cleavage between the TS and IS on one side, the TG and GLB on the other.

That's based purely on pragmatic grounds, the former have medical issues nothing to do with sexual orientation, the latter have sexual issues nothing to do with medical ones. The only thing we have in common is that it's the same kind of people who want to kill us.

In Australia, we have subsidised health care. So the Government has a say in what drugs can be prescribed for what conditions. IS and TS people face legal problems that GLBs don't. Thus when I was deemed more M than F, I was prescribed Androcur (Cyproterone Acetate - not FDA approved) for 'Reduction of sex drive in a deviant male'. But just a few weeks later, the same stuff was prescribed for "severe androgenisation of a non-pregnant woman". The medics have to be very careful they don't leave themselves open to charges of fraud. A month's Androcur cost me $38 at the subsidised price but would be $400 on the open market. It cost me even less when being used as a chemical castrator for a "deviant male", the subsidies depend on the diagnosis.

The more normal TS cases face similar problems, but there the dividing line is surgery. Before, one sex on the database, after, the other. It's only when a TS woman gets prostate problems, or a TS man gets cowper's gland ones, that there are issues.

Try explaining that to GLB activists, and see the blank stares you get. They don't know, and they don't want to know. Explain to them that Transgendered people are denied passports here, and again, incomprehension. Their concerns and ours are worlds apart.

In the US I imagine it's different. I've seen almost no involvement of IS people in the GLBITQ activism.

Pretty much everyone has been exposed to TS people on TV. Yet 1 in 100,000 births are serial hermaphrodites, that means about 50 are born in the USA every year. There are thousands of them - us - usually with 5ARD or 17BHD deficiency. A few dozen like me. All of them have bodies changing apparent sex over their lifetime. Yet few have heard of us. Most don't believe we exist, or that we can exist. We cause far too many problems for the usual religions.

Just as GLB ignores TS (outside SF), so does TS ignore IS. As a rule.

99% of the time, I'm just TS. I often forget. It's only when something medical pops up that I have to think about being IS too. Much as post-ops do many years after transition. They forget they ever were TS.

All the best Joanne, Zoe

Re: Looking To Please Homosexuals And The Transgendered, Maryland County Goes To Unisex Locker Rooms

Zoe Brain — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 04:36:49 -0000

Transgender... what does it mean? The trouble is, that it covers a multitude of, er, sins.

There's the Transvestites, who outnumber all the rest put together by maybe 5:1. Many are wealthy and powerful men - and they are always men. They're straight, just have a peculiar fetish. They like dressing like women, it gives them a sexual thrill. But they tend to do it in private, maybe going out for an illicit thrill after dark. Harmless, but in my opinion, as weird as rubber or garter fetishists.

There's the cross-dressers, who just feel more comfortable in female attire. Many are very macho, but some are transsexual women (see below) in denial. Some are Bi, but often asexual, gay, or straight. These will often be seen in public, but as many present most convincingly, you might not notice.

Transsexuals and the Intersexed - these have congenital medical issues. There are hundreds of different medical conditions that can lead to Intersex - a body neither wholly male nor wholly female. Intersexed people with non-standard genitalia have real problems, facing arrest and imprisonment no matter which bathroom they use. Transsexual people tend to have problems only when they seek treatment for what is often a fatal condition. They are neurologically Intersexed, meaning they have brains somewhat typical of one sex, bodies more like the other. Many are Intersexed in other ways too. The condition is [b]intensely[/b] uncomfortable, and 1/3 who don't get treatment suicide. Treatment consists of hormone therapy, which often is adequate, as it stops the mind decaying from the cross-gendered hormones coursing through the brain. Hormones in larger doses can cause bodily changes that can give relief in more severe cases (though often cause legal problems for those who don't require the expensive and dangerous surgery). Sex Reassignment Surgery is required for those whose brainstem is affected severely, for those who want a normal sex life, and in many cases is required to avoid arrest and imprisonment.

TS men look short, but otherwise indistinguishable from other men, testosterone is powerful stuff. TS women who transition young look normal too, but many try to "tough it out" before cracking at average age 45. Their appearance can range from normal to freakish. Unlike cross-dressers, who can revert to a male appearance whenever they want, these can't, no matter how bad they look. They're sterile and impotent from the hormones of course, assuming they haven't had surgery to give them normal genitalia.

"Serial hermaphrodites" whose bodies change from looking like one sex to looking like the other often have the same problems as TS people. Most (97%?) look like girls at birth, then masculinise during an often delayed puberty due to 5ARD or 17BHDD. Some can even father children.

"Drag Queens" aren't really Transgendered, they just dress up for entertainment. Many are Gay, but some are just entertainers, the female appearance has no more significance than a Clown suit.

"She Males" are those who take finely balanced hormones and body-contouring surgery to appear female when nude, except for fully functional male genitalia. They make a fortune as prostitutes or in porn movies. Some are TS women trying desperately to save for surgery, a few are straight men in it for the money, many are gay.

Transsexuality symptoms almost always appear between the ages of 2 and 10. But only 1 in 4 of those with similar symptoms are TS, the rest are just Gay, something far more socially acceptable.

In this case, a school context, this legislation would protect those children who are TS or IS, especially those who are "serials". That's about 1 in 100,000 with 5ARD (though an astounding 1 in 90 in the Dominican Republic and a few other places with isolated gene pools) and 1 in 147-170,000 for 17BHDD. The other "serial" conditions might be 1 in 1,000,000 put together. TS is about 1 in 3000, so outnumber the rest. Add in the temporarily gender-confused gay kids, it might be 1 in 700.

BTW my own condition is thought to be 1 in 3.5 million. My Birth Certificate says "boy" despite the appearance and genitalia. Both IS and (when I appeared male) TS. I'm neither proud nor ashamed of my condition, just one of those things. But it [b]is[/b] embarrassing, so I don't advertise it except when there are Human Rights questions involved.

Re: Looking To Please Homosexuals And The Transgendered, Maryland County Goes To Unisex Locker Rooms

Zoe Brain — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 08:59:24 -0000

Lost? Whatever gave you that idea? My aim is to educate.

And if you can find a single instance of rape by a man dressed in women's clothes in the last 5 years, please tell me. You see, we have some sophisticated news aggregators going back that far, and although there have been crossdressed murderers, arsonists, inummerable bank and convenience store robbers, there have been no rapists.

Most of the above were straight men in disguise too, not TS people. You do know that one of the components of hormone treatment is also used as a "chemical castrator" for sex offenders?

Your fears are not based on evidence.

Re: Looking To Please Homosexuals And The Transgendered, Maryland County Goes To Unisex Locker Rooms

Zoe Brain — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:19:55 -0000

Sure I did.
I'll invite others to read [url=http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/is_the_new_transsexual_police_commissioner_in_san_francisco_the_right_woman/P300/]the thread in question[/url] and make up their own minds.

It's got lots of good factual information, and a genuine "exterminate them all for the good of society" exponent.

You seem to think that a serious issue is some sort of game or competition, requiring winners and losers, rather than a means of eliciting truth and rationally exposing different, often contradictory viewpoints.

Getting back to rational concerns... people who are TS or IS have to be diagnosed as such. It would be a simple matter to require anyone claiming to be TS to produce evidence of the minimum 3 months and usually years of psychiatric and endocrinological assessments attesting to that. The "perv in women's clothing" is a myth.

Re: Looking To Please Homosexuals And The Transgendered, Maryland County Goes To Unisex Locker Rooms

Zoe Brain — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 21:38:11 -0000

Neiman, for a short period of my life, I looked just as I do now. Breasts, female figure etc. No penis as such (at least, not visible except to a pelvic ultrasound), but testes. Though they were retracted completely when it was cold.

Which bathroom should I have used? Do I look at the thermometer? Would the prospect of someone in a skirt and blouse using a male restroom not cause some comment? Here in Australia, we have stalls in restrooms, of course, so don't go around exposing things.

Now, after some surgical replumbing, I look just like any other woman who had had a hysterectomy.

Yes, we're a tiny minority, like those with wheelchairs, or the blind - two groups that society sees fit to make some minor accomodations for. What would you have us do?

Now the important stuff : thanks for the welcome back. It's good to be amongst friends, especially those who remain so despite genuine and deep-seated disagreement on just about everything. Just no-one call me a Lefty, OK? Freak is acceptable.

Re: Looking To Please Homosexuals And The Transgendered, Maryland County Goes To Unisex Locker Rooms

Zoe Brain — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 22:03:37 -0000

Neiman, reading what you said again, you do raise a valid issue, one I glossed over. Restrooms aren't a problem, but locker rooms are.

It would be manifestly unreasonable, and cruel, to have normal women's private spaces invaded by someone who looks male in one important aspect. A significant number of women have been raped, and many have deep psychological trauma from that. They are a minority, but they deserve exactly the same consideration that other minorities do.

The solution there isn't a good one. But it's the best we have. Given that TG people are such a small minority, requiring those whose bodies are inconsistent, and where the inconsistencies would be exposed, to use the special unisex areas set aside for the disabled would see to be a reasonable option.

That of course entails that such accommodation actually be provided, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Not only TGs would benefit.

If the report is correct, and the Montgomery County authorities are being Fanatical about this, then they're doing it for politics, not for human rights. God save us from such "friends".

Re: Looking To Please Homosexuals And The Transgendered, Maryland County Goes To Unisex Locker Rooms

Zoe Brain — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 22:18:15 -0000

Chief RZ - Snap! Great Minds Think Alike etc.

In cases where the differences aren't obvious and upsetting, there should be no Apartheid (for that is how TG people would see it). But where they are, there should be.

People who are born Intersexed, be they Transsexual or Androgen Insensitive (or Swyer or Turner or Kleinfelter or....) are people. Some few are androgynous, neither M nor F in their brains, and they should be accommodated as best we can. But most are just Men and Women, born with bodies that don't fit their minds. Many have deep insecurities. How does an 18 year old girl tell her Boyfriend that the reason she can't have kids is that she's genetically male? She only found out herself just a month ago, at the fertility clinic.

How does a guy tell his Girlfriend that the reason *he* can't father kids is that he's Kleinfelter, neither 46xy (male) nor 46xx (female) but 47xxy? And that although most such people look male like him, some look female, and have even given birth?

To then tell such people that they should be separated from other men and women would be terribly traumatic. It's only in the cases of obvious physical anomalies, and where those anomalies would be both visible and distressing to others, that segregation should occur.

Thanks to everyone for your kind words, by the way.

Re: Looking To Please Homosexuals And The Transgendered, Maryland County Goes To Unisex Locker Rooms

Zoe Brain — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 23:18:15 -0000

How many of us are there? Good Question, and there are few 100% confidence figures.

One of those few is that the top 3 surgeons in the USA perform about 500 MtoF operations per year. The best estimate is 1000 per year in the US and Canada. Figures from Thai surgeons indicate another 1000 US citizens per year there, and this might be an underestimate. I went to the most expensive surgeon in Thailand, and in the month I was there, he had 13 patients from the US, about average for a month according to his business manager. When I went back for revision surgery, there were 7 in 2 weeks. He's one of over a dozen.

So a reasonable estimate of those US citizens who have actually had the operation - or a similar one for Intersex conditions like mine - is 2000/year. This has remained constant over the last 20 years, as far as we can tell. So a reasonable estimate is 50,000, taking into account some have died, but that surgery has been performed for 30 years, not 20.

Another "reasonable estimate" is that only 1 in 10 with Gender Dysphoria serious enough to require medical treatment have the operation. Many don't need it, hormones are enough. Many more can't afford it. Surgery costs $10-40,000 depending on the surgeon, but the costs of FFS - facial feminisation surgery - are even higher, and then there's the cost of electrolysis to remove facial hair. Many can only afford enough to look normal when clothed.

Leaving aside those whose hormonal dose is enough to keep their brains working right, but not enough to cause bodily changes, we're looking at perhaps 350,000 women. Figures for men are less reliable, but we think it's about 1/3 of that, as the surgery there is less good. A 30% success rate, and $100,000 basically, in a procedure involving up to 12 operations over some years.

So 500,000, more or less, of whom 60,000 are post-operative.

For other Intersex conditions, 1.7% of the population is technically intersexed, but most are asymptomatic. Only 1 in 1000 have conditions so severe that they cause problems. Maybe 300,000 all told.

The reason why TS people are so much more visible, is that they are so much more visible. IS people can and do usually conceal their condition. It's only the "serials", those whose bodies are born looking like one sex, but change to look like the other, that can't really hide.

The most common causes are 5ARD (5-alpha-reductase-deficiency) and 17BHDD (17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency). That's about 1 in 100,000 and 1 in 147-175,000 respectively, but all the figures are rubbery, and sources differ. In both those syndromes, baby girls grow up to be big boys.

The reverse, boys becoming girls, is perhaps 1 in 3.5 million. 3 cases known in Australia anyway, with 3 different causes. We think there are 4 causes of this. Type II is by far the most common, more than the rest put together. Types III and I are probably fatal in most cases. Type IV has only been reported in the last 3 months. But really, we're clueless, guessing, sample sizes are too small.

The official figures for MtoF Transsexuality according to the DSM-IV (official US psych handbook) is 1 in 30,000, based on Norwegian stats from the 60's. Since 1983 it has been forbidden to use Federal funds to study this area. The official figures from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health say 1 in 11,000, based upon Singaporean studies in the 80's. This will be updated shortly as the result of studies in the US, UK, and re-examining historical raw data using modern statistical techniques, to about 1 in 3,000, which is in accordance with the measured surgical numbers.

Re: Is The New Transsexual Police Commissioner In San Francisco The Right Woman For The Job?

Zoe Brain — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:49:27 -0000

Yes, it's probably under-reported. This is the first known case where the victim - and I use that word advisedly here - did not have a female gender identity. Instead of a wonderful relief, it's a descent into Hell for him.

Most in this situation probably just quietly suicide. It's not as bad as you think, it's worse than you can imagine. Trust me on that.