DISQUS

Mad Men will never be a hit, and it's okay. AMC is happy with the performance and is using the show to brand itself. Personally, MM is not to my taste. I've watched several episodes and it just doesn't grab me.

Jeff, it was fairly understandable what they did back in 1994 and 1996 because there was noplace else to go. One specific network had the rights to the Olympics and without a resource as well developed as the internet, for most, it was either watch it tape-delayed or wait for tomorrow's newspaper for the results. Of course, that's all changed now, so NBC has to be very agile. It seems to be doing a great job, helped in no small part by the US team's stellar performance (esp. Phelps) up to this point.

NBC must be doing jumping jacks that the next Olympics are just 18 months away and are being held in Vancouver, giving them prime-time live coverage for the big events. NBC really needed these Olympics to be huge not only from a profit standpoint, but also from a promotional one - it'll be interesting to see what kind of boost its premieres get out of this. Another plus for NBC - if these Olympics do end up boosting this season, the 2010 ones will boost next season as well. If any network ever needed a life-line this big, it was NBC, and it got just that and more.

You guys run a fantastic website, so the kind words are more than deserved. I ran one myself from 2000-2006, but it's too hard to break-out and Nielsen was much more picky at that time. I remained a relative unknown except to a dozen or so readers, but it also allowed me the freedom to archive full ratings lists. Of course, it's all gone now, so it's a moot point.

the reason why your website is fantastic is because there's raw reporting of the numbers, plus analysis and lots of other goodies that the networks send out (things most people miss because they don't even know the networks have press sites). along with tvtattle, this has quickly become by favorite resource for television.

You guys got linked on Drudge. Congrats!

You have to wonder what the share numbers are going to look like. A 24.4 at 11:30? That's got to be a 60, maybe 70 share.

I think we all have to keep in mind that most series are never going to be hits for whatever reason. AD had cult classic written all over it, and Fox did give it three seasons. I really don't blame Fox in AD's cancellation. I mean, it was on Sundays for two seasons and won the best comedy emmy in its first. That's pretty stable. But it also lost a consistent portion of its lead-in in every timeslot it aired. It was just a show that was never going to catch on, even if it's now more popular than it was when it aired. And I say this as a huge AD fan, one who owns all the DVDs, can recite entire scenes and has seen every episode at least 5 times. 30 Rock is the same deal. I don't like 30 rock, however.

Mad Men may very well be in the same league. What MM gives AMC is definitely branding, and awards. For that alone, I can see MM getting a third season, if not more.

Keep in mind that Wipeout was also a "best of." I've been watching it all summer, but turned it off after a few minutes last night.

Mentioning Moonlight here is akin to a series doing a big stunt for sweeps. It gets lots of viewers, sure, but only for that one post, and you eventually lose your more loyal viewers.

Yup. The One struggled to reach 2.5 million viewers. So it has been worse...

It's nice to see a US network importing a Canadian show and leaving it as it - and it being a hit! With the constant decline in viewership effecting ad dollars, it'll be interesting to see if more Canadian shows make their way to US tv - cofinancing to bring down production costs. Canadian shows are at a great advantage because Canada is cultually seemless with the US (for the most part, and unlike other english speaking countries). Several Canadian shows are already in US syndication and Fox just bought the scripts to make a US version of Little Mosque on the Prairie.

"Finally, if we want to talk about discrimination, I'll say I feel discrimated against. I'm 26, and I resent advertisers and progammers thinking I am mentally deficient and financially inept."

I do agree with this statement as a sane 27 y/o, but you must admit that many people in our age demo are mentally deficient and financially inept. That's why advertizing towards this demo still works.

"I'm 43. For the first time since the X-Files, there was appointment T.V. on Friday nights. Everyone knew I would not answer my phone while Moonlight was on. WTF??????"

This is why people don't like ML fans. Please stop trying to turn everything into a ML discussion.

I agree with you somewhat, Katie. But as somebody once said (PT Barnum?): Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public. Witness the concentrated 18-49 ratings for dreck like Moment of Truth.

I do believe that people are more cynical these days, but there are swaths of the public who still fall for advertizing hook, line and sinker, which is why it still works. To me, the best ads are tongue-in-cheek; the ones that make me laugh. I don't consider myself to be very influenced by advertizing (it usually comes down to a medium between price-point and quality for me), but those are the ones I enjoy the most.

"It is also the >49 demo which gives the money to their children and grandchildren to purchase products. Conversely, If we don't give them money, we go out and buy the products for them!"

That kind of proves the point. If you're giving them the money, it doesn't really matter what you like. What matters is what they like, since they're the ones buying the products. And when you buy these products for them, you're most likely going to buy what they want which, in turn, is influenced by advertizing.

Studies have shown that younger people are more open to try new products time and time again. If you look at new and innovative products, it's not the 50+ crowd that have launched them into popularity. Ie - iPods, DVDs, CDs, PCs, etc. Older people have came to these trends later than younger people, even if they have more disposible income to spend on them.

The big sector of advertizing that I can see leaning towards the 50+ crowd would be the auto industry simply because they can be prohibitively expensive for the younger crowd. 20-year-old Suzie can watch consecutive ads for the iPod and the Nissan Versa and both may pique her interest, but the only one she can realisitically go out and buy is the iPod.

Regarding the supply of <30 viewers, the numbers bear that out. Take me, for example. I'm a 27 y/o male, have cable, but have not turned on the television in weeks. After Lost was done for the season, nothing appealed to me at all, so I simply don't watch. Wait, I lie. I watched Swingtown this week, but was bored out of my mind.

Another facet of the demo-targeting is the HH-income target, which would definitely skew more towards the older crowd. The ad rates for Lost hare that out - despite drops in overall ratings, it's audience is the highest earning in all of primetime, so ABC can still charge an arm and a leg for advertizing. With this narrow-marketing, I really don't think that advertizing is solely about age-ranges anymore, although it's still the most important factor.

Are you seriously comparing <30 viewers to smallpox? The ratings bare out the story - we are a harder demo to reach, thus advertizers will pay more for us. It's not discrimination, it's supply and demand.

Remember, you were once in our demo too. And I'm sure that when you were, you really didn't give a damn that the over 50s were virutally ignored. And someday I'll be over 50, and maybe by then I'll care.

Swingtown is dead, pretty much. It's got to be expensive to produve and 6 million viewers just isn't going to cut it. MDP is cheap to produce, so even if it does a sub-2.0 in adults, it's still passable.

Part of the reason why advertizers go after the 18-49 demo (and younger) is because they're harder to reach. Older people watch more television, thus an advertizer can go to just about any series and get that demograhpic. That's why there's no premium on it. The 18-34 demo, however, is much more fickle and doesn't watch as much tv. Thus, if a show does well in that demo (especially males, like Lost does), the networks can charge a premium because you can't get those viewers anywhere. It's not that advertizers don't necessarily value older viewers, it's just that they're everywhere. It's simple supply and demand.

C2H did much better than Ml in viewers and demo, and IMHO, CBS should not have cancelled it.

The bottom line is that viewers do not flock to CBS looking for hip, urbane series, and that's why most of them fail on that network. If anything, ABC has that segment of the audience locked up. That's not to say that ML would have done any better on another network - the odds of renewal for a new series are just 20%, so odds are that ML would have failed no matter where it aired. It's the television business. ML fans need to understand that the cancellation decision was not done just to pick on them. It wasn't some conspiracy between CBS and Nielsen because they hated this show. All networks want to see any one of their new series succeed because then they make money. It just wasn't in the cards for ML.

Yes, Comradai, and almost all of my friends and family watch Lost. Therefore it must have 100 million viewers! Nielsen is wrong! Anecdotal evidence is just that: anecdotal. And usually pretty worthless.

For better or for worse, Nielsen ratings are an accurate measure of what people are watching on television.

Truth is, until ML got cancelled, I had never ever heard a peep about it anywhere.

Can't wait for the Ex-List!

So, Moonlight for the shaft. Big deal. Dozens of series get the shaft every year, and a good number of them are better than ML. It's time to let it go... it's not coming back. Do you really think that DirecTV is going to pick it up? If they do, it'll be like Passions - convince a bunch of people to switch and sign a contract, then dump the series and keep the customers. That's EXACTLY what happened with Passions.

As for The Ex-list, I hope it's a huge hit. Because really, this whole ML situation has gone too far and tested the patience of too many people.

The ratings system does work. You want to know the proof? Every year Nielsen tweaks its sample, but the numbers don't dramatically change.


As for ML grabbing 15-16 million viewers... pass me some of what you're smoking.

KO has probably levelled off, but MSNBC is still ecstatic over his ratings - he occasionally beats BOR in the 25-54 demo and skews much younger. I would venture to say that MSNBC makes as much money off of KO as FNC does off BOR.

The pathetic viewer numbers for the Daytime emmys mirrors the pathetic numbers for the daytime soaps. Back when Susan Lucci won in 1996 (?), the DE drew 14 million viewers. Now this.

As for MVP, it already failed in Canada (and has been cancelled), so why would any network in the US think that it would do any better there? It's truly a bizarre pick-up, considering that there are so many other Canadian shows that would probably do much better stateside, but are overlooked.

However, Canadian series are starting to make inroads in the US. Corner Gas, Davinchi's Inquest and Cold Squad (the original, the one that Cold Case ripped off) all air in US syndication, and Fox just signed up to do a remake of Little Mosque on the Prairie. There was a lot of hope in Canadian television circles that the strike would mean US networks would look north for programming (there was no strike here), but that didn't happen to a large extent. I still think a US network would do well to program a Friday or Saturday with Canadian programs. They'd probably get them dirt cheap, the quality is there, and none of the networks are airing anything of consequence anyway on Fridays or Saturdays.

That's the problem, Joe. People 35+ tend to watch much more television than those <35. Supply and demand. You can go to 30 different series and get a 5.0 rating in adults 35-64 (or maybe more than that), but just a handful to get a 5.0 rating in adults 18-34. These viewers are harder to reach (especially the males), which is why advertizers will pay a premium for them, and why we get a daily release of the 18-49ers. It doesn't mean that you're irrelevant, it just means that you're not as valuable as a 25-year-old ;)

I doubt that ST gets renewed. While those numbers are okay for the summer, they're nothing to write home about. Unless we see some uptick in the coming weeks, it'll be over and out.

The last two games of the cup drew a 3.9 rating? That's FANTASTIC! NBC and the NHL must be thrilled right now.

I was referring to the ML fans who seem to be invading the entire internet, not this site itself.

Do you guys have a mailing list or something?