DISQUS

Here are my thoughts..and I will try to be as fair as possible ;)


I think the type of "mockery" these guys are displaying for their Halloween decorations is rather crude and I defenitely don't think is art. I agree with Brady and you on that for sure.



However, since this issue has been brought up, let's compare what happened months ago (actually the first effigy in these elections that we know of) around September and October...at George Fox Univeristy, a Conservative Christian University in Oregon where the effygy of Obama was hang on a tree by 5 or 6 students who were part of a group...not during Halloween or any sort of festivities...and that had a message that said "Act Six Reject".



http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-effi...



I was wanting to talk about this a while ago...but nobody mention that here (unless I missed it) and I don't understand why. I thought maybe because the act was so wrong..that maybe people didnt wanted to talk about it here, but then this post opens this subject now...



I'm not sure Fox news even reported it...but it was showed briefly in CNN and other media...briefly only, because of how sad this was. Situations like this are nothing to be proud of or happy about for any of us...



Answering your question though...I think both acts could carry "hate speeches" but I think the latter was worst, for me to know of, because of the context in which it was executed...because it was done in a Christian school and by Christians...which whom I expect more from...much more from....



The day I heard those news Randy I almost cried...because I feel like we many times...we missrepresent the name of God...and this shouldn't be.



None of the acts was good, but I guess what I'm trying to say is...when we put all the facts in perspective something that would be "hate speech" vs "hate speech and hate crime" is based upon what message that act could carry and what acts could most likley unfold of it.



Sadly, we have had a long history of oppression in different groups of people...so when we carry messages of division or hate, the heavyness they have can also be measured by that history we've already faced.



There are messages that, as wrong as they are, could be applied to one person only, while others, on top of being wrong, could be applied to a whole group of people...none are good, but some are worst than others...and that to me...is when you ponder what crosses the line and what doesn't.



I don't agree with either, but I think in fairness to your questions, we need to do a careful evalution at what happened in West Holllywood and what happened at George Fox Univerisity.

Here are my thoughts..and I will try to be as fair as possible ;)

I think the type of "mockery" these guys are displaying for their Halloween decorations is rather crude and I defenitely don't think is art. I agree with Brady and you on that for sure.

However, since this issue has been brought up, let's compare what happened months ago (actually the first effigy in these elections that we know of) around September and October...at George Fox Univeristy, a Conservative Christian University in Oregon where the effygy of Obama was hang on a tree by 5 or 6 students who were part of a group...not during Halloween or any sort of festivities...and that had a message that said "Act Six Reject".

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-effi...

I was wanting to talk about this a while ago...but nobody mention that here (unless I missed it) and I don't understand why. I thought maybe because the act was so wrong..that maybe people didnt wanted to talk about it here, but then this post opens this subject now...

I'm not sure Fox news even reported it...but it was showed briefly in CNN and other media...briefly only, because of how sad this was. Situations like this are nothing to be proud of or happy about for any of us...

Answering your question though...I think both acts could carry "hate speeches" but I think the latter was worst, for me to know of, because of the context in which it was executed...because it was done in a Christian school and by Christians...which whom I expect more from...much more from....

The day I heard those news Randy I almost cried...because I feel like we many times...we missrepresent the name of God...and this shouldn't be.

None of the acts was good, but I guess what I'm trying to say is...when we put all the facts in perspective something that would be "hate speech" vs "hate speech and hate crime" is based upon what message that act could carry and what acts could most likley unfold of it.

Sadly, we have had a long history of oppression in different groups of people...so when we carry messages of division or hate, the heavyness they have can also be measured by that history we've already faced.

There are messages that, as wrong as they are, could be applied to one person only, while others, on top of being wrong, could be applied to a whole group of people...none are good, but some are worst than others...and that to me...is when you ponder what crosses the line and what doesn't.

I don't agree with either, but I think in fairness to your questions, we need to do a careful evalution at what happened in West Holllywood and what happened at George Fox Univerisity.

I am with you on this one Randy. Bringing an extreme representative of either side...doesnt show in fairness what other Christian with a more balanced and godly perspective will opt for. It isn't a good representation at all.


I have to mention too though, that I too have seen anti-gay Christian rallies (in the defense of marriage) that have used pictures and names of 'extreme' supergay people, even considered odd in the gay community, to defend a point, which hasn't been fair either in my opinion. Basically, I would have the same general concept in either case and the fact that I have seen it in both sides doesn't make any of them right.



I have attened debates that I have really really enjoyed though in which a variety of people were indeed represented, breaking many stereotypes of what it means to be liberal and conservative, Christian or non-Christian, struggler and non-struggler, and I think presenting a balanced, more common, perspective in all cases in order to proove any point is always much better in order to resolve anything and build any bridges. Those are my thoughts of the day! :)

I am with you on this one Randy. Bringing an extreme representative of either side...doesnt show in fairness what other Christian with a more balanced and godly perspective will opt for. It isn't a good representation at all.

I have to mention too though, that I too have seen anti-gay Christian rallies (in the defense of marriage) that have used pictures and names of 'extreme' supergay people, even considered odd in the gay community, to defend a point, which hasn't been fair either in my opinion. Basically, I would have the same general concept in either case and the fact that I have seen it in both sides doesn't make any of them right.

I have attened debates that I have really really enjoyed though in which a variety of people were indeed represented, breaking many stereotypes of what it means to be liberal and conservative, Christian or non-Christian, struggler and non-struggler, and I think presenting a balanced, more common, perspective in all cases in order to proove any point is always much better in order to resolve anything and build any bridges. Those are my thoughts of the day! :)

I understand what you are saying Randy...and I know where you stand very clearly and I respect all your opinions about everything, I do.


But let's just not forget that a lot of Christians feel very divided during this elections as a result of so much happening, good and bad, and so although I defenitely respect people who defend the Republican party, I just wanted to share my perspectives about the perspectives other Christians might have too.



I just wanted to add a bit of my thoughts even if at least once, since I've been holding myself for many months really.



There is so much I wish I could say (hence, I wish we could go for a coffee).

I just think that Joe's "possible" idea of earning 250,000 per year doesn't represent the reality most people face today. I think it is wonderful if he has that much money saved, but most people in the country currently arent as fortunate, there is nothing wrong with him asking, but there isn't nothing wrong with realizing that he isn't speaking for the majority of people either I think....everyday in the news we can see this reality, its not just a theory I'm throwing out there, everyone knows...so while Joe has all the right to wonder and save, I worry about the majority of people right now...



As far as the "spreading the wealth" and the so called "socialist" label people are using to be afraid of one side....ah, there is so much I could say...such a the fact that nationalizing banks its part of socialim, something we did just a little while ago under this government and will continue doing so to get out of this situation...and the fact that our wealth has been spread in many ways for quiet a while for years now..so I rather stop here before I keep on going.



In either case Randy, I do appreciate it, value you and your thoughts very much, and I just wanted to share my views in some instances just to speak for those who I know couldn't here. I won't say much more.



I'm praying, not for a particular person to win, but for good judgement in all of us as these are crucial times for the country and our future. May God do His will during this upcoming weeks and may we all come together regardless of what may come.

I understand what you are saying Randy...and I know where you stand very clearly and I respect all your opinions about everything, I do.

But let's just not forget that a lot of Christians feel very divided during this elections as a result of so much happening, good and bad, and so although I defenitely respect people who defend the Republican party, I just wanted to share my perspectives about the perspectives other Christians might have too.

I just wanted to add a bit of my thoughts even if at least once, since I've been holding myself for many months really.

There is so much I wish I could say (hence, I wish we could go for a coffee).
I just think that Joe's "possible" idea of earning 250,000 per year doesn't represent the reality most people face today. I think it is wonderful if he has that much money saved, but most people in the country currently arent as fortunate, there is nothing wrong with him asking, but there isn't nothing wrong with realizing that he isn't speaking for the majority of people either I think....everyday in the news we can see this reality, its not just a theory I'm throwing out there, everyone knows...so while Joe has all the right to wonder and save, I worry about the majority of people right now...

As far as the "spreading the wealth" and the so called "socialist" label people are using to be afraid of one side....ah, there is so much I could say...such a the fact that nationalizing banks its part of socialim, something we did just a little while ago under this government and will continue doing so to get out of this situation...and the fact that our wealth has been spread in many ways for quiet a while for years now..so I rather stop here before I keep on going.

In either case Randy, I do appreciate it, value you and your thoughts very much, and I just wanted to share my views in some instances just to speak for those who I know couldn't here. I won't say much more.

I'm praying, not for a particular person to win, but for good judgement in all of us as these are crucial times for the country and our future. May God do His will during this upcoming weeks and may we all come together regardless of what may come.

Well, I have 7 friends this far (that I know of) all over the country who have lost jobs due to the financial crisis we are facing today, That list includes: a lawyer, a teacher, a banker, a projetc manager, an engineer, a real estate agent, and a veterinarian. All of them hard-workers, smart, and with families that need their support.


Although, I do respect Joe the plumber's story (even though he doesn't have a plumbing certificate and doesn't have such business yet) I do not think he represents the reality that most people face today nor the reality many of us could face tomorrow.



I think it has been an interesting story, but if you want my opinion friend, for me, it isn't working.



- Ana, Missouri.

Well, I have 7 friends this far (that I know of) all over the country who have lost jobs due to the financial crisis we are facing today, That list includes: a lawyer, a teacher, a banker, a projetc manager, an engineer, a real estate agent, and a veterinarian. All of them hard-workers, smart, and with families that need their support.

Although, I do respect Joe the plumber's story (even though he doesn't have a plumbing certificate and doesn't have such business yet) I do not think he represents the reality that most people face today nor the reality many of us could face tomorrow.

I think it has been an interesting story, but if you want my opinion friend, for me, it isn't working.

- Ana, Missouri.