Disqus - Latest Comments for Phil

Re: Is there a way to overcome panic attacks or is there a cure and something that can help me with it?

Phil — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 10:40:59 -0000

dont know of a natural way but the xanax should help
References :

Re: Numa Numa!

Phil — Fri, 18 Aug 2006 04:52:46 -0000

Det där är tyvärr inte orginalet =/ finns en annan som kom innan på en typ 40 åring som kör numa numa och några andra låtar

Re: http://andytgeezer.blogspot.com/2007/11/new-essays-soon.html

Phil — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 20:05:00 -0000

Hi,

Sorry to bother you, but I found your blog and I wondered
if you would be interested in doing a link exchange? I'm trying to get my site
(findinlondon.com) off the ground. Its a forum site, where Londoners can go and
talk/rant/discuss about anything related to London, problem is I need Londoners
to actually go there and start doing that! :), so I'm looking for successful
London bloggers that I can do link exchanges with.

Theres also a competition, where the most successful poster (judged by me) by the start of Dec wins a small prize.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Phil

Re: fiene & studiengebühren ländersache

Phil — Wed, 26 Jan 2005 04:50:00 -0000

Da fällt mir doch ganz klar ein F**k the system, wenigstens ein bisschen. FÜr ein chancengleiches und gebührenfreies studium, beste grüße aus Trier

Re: Have I believed a lie? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Phil — Wed, 17 May 2006 00:35:00 -0000

@ Big Daddy - My belief is that a person's knowledge of God is extremely limited without the Bible... so yeah, if you dismiss that as a source of authority then there's very little else to go by. I haven't found any convincing evidence against the Bible though... and I honestly don't expect to.

What makes you think that they're two different gods?

Re: Have I believed a lie? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Phil — Wed, 17 May 2006 01:46:00 -0000

Ultimately, nothing can be "proved". It's impossible to know anything for certain. Therefore, everything is faith. Faith in science, faith in God, faith in the sturdiness of your computer chair.

So then, it's just a matter of deciding in what you're going to put your faith and why.

Re: Have I believed a lie? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Phil — Wed, 17 May 2006 02:12:00 -0000

How do I know that science is making the light go on and off?

Re: Have I believed a lie? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Phil — Wed, 17 May 2006 23:29:00 -0000

@ Ubergeek - Right, that's exactly what I meant! But I disagree with what you say about not having faith in the sturdiness of your computer chair. No matter how many tests you run, it's not 100% certain, right?

True, Christianity involves faith -- but not blind faith. There IS substantial evidence.

Re: NO TRUE CHRISTIANS! - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Phil — Tue, 16 May 2006 16:03:00 -0000

So... what is a true Christian again? I think you're confused. Someone who obeys all the commandments all the time? No at all... the Bible also says that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. That's what necessitates Christianity.

Re: NO TRUE CHRISTIANS! - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Phil — Wed, 17 May 2006 00:13:00 -0000

@ one true christian - So what prevents Christ from being that one person? Seems to me like he'd fit the bill. I believe that Christ's death and resurrection covered all sins past, present, and future. People before CE made animal sacrifices as God commanded -- an act that didn't save the people in itself but looked forward to Christs ultimate sacrifice of himself on the Cross.

But regarding the $10... I'm supposed to just give you whatever you ask? What if you asked for something that was bad for you? Hey, you know, isn't money the root of all evil? Yeah... I bet you have a nasty drug habit don't you? Hmmm... can I sent food stamps? :-) Just jokes.

Re: NO TRUE CHRISTIANS! - ExChristian.Net - Articles

Phil — Wed, 17 May 2006 23:58:00 -0000

What's in a name? So they called him different names. Couldn't they still be worshipping one God? Not everybody calls me the same name... yet I'm still only one person. To find out who they're worshipping, you have to compare the attributes of the objects of worship. You can't just go by the name.

@ one true christian - Regarding God changing the universe to make everything peachy without any bloody sacrifice: God is just -- meaning he always acts in accordance with what is right that he is himself the final standard of what is right. To do as you say and 'make everything right' would be to go against himself.

Re: http://www.techniqx.com/2009/07/key-differences-between-nokia-e72-and.html

Phil — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:40:35 -0000

What about batterylife ?

Re: http://www.h-i-r.net/2009/05/securing-php-web-applications.html

Phil — Fri, 01 May 2009 14:25:00 -0000

If people need proof that PHP can be secure, we did participate to a security contest, and no one did find security bug in it... All others apps did have 30+ security bugs.

And for peoples that are looking for it, I do have a 3 days training in security for PHP programmers.

Re: Blogging and the new Public Square

Phil — Sun, 25 Feb 2007 06:04:07 -0000

Your education, Jake, starts with a close reading of Edmund Spenser's account of Circe and the Bower of Bliss.
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/%7Erbear/queene2.html#Cant.%20XII

By what were the sailors enslaved? Why did Grylle not want to be returned to human form?

Moral: in Circe's enchanted garden, consumers can be as happy as pigs in shit, but to be so is to be enslaved to our base desires.

Community at its best is a polis, where we as citizens meet, not in an owned or enchanted space, but as human beings.

"Let us cultivate our humanity" - Seneca.

Onwards, Jake! First the Spenser, then we can talk about Seneca.

Re: My Sweet Lord: George Harrison Lands On iTunes, Buy The Beatles….Solo Works

Phil — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 05:32:00 -0000

Am I the only who sees that Harrison's "Dark Horse" album is not on iTunes?

Also, one of Ringo's albums isn't on there either.

So, technically, the catalogs are not as "complete" as advertise.

Re: On Little Big Planet

Phil — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:28:02 -0000

I promised not to play another game until RoT came out, I'd expect you to do the same. Seriously...dude.

Re: 3rd Annual Holiday Gift Guide/Best Of…

Phil — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:48:06 -0000

Nice reviews but I can still tell that you smell funny just from reading it. It's probably just all the video game talk.

Re: Euro 2008 Group D Final Match Preview And Predictions

Phil — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:08:07 -0000

Ibrahimovic will carry sweden through, easily

Re: Who Are The Premier League Players You Love To Hate The Most?

Phil — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:59:56 -0000

I'm a MANUTD fan and honestly think Ronaldo should be on this list. His antics of the field with him wanting to be traded aswell as his constant falling down.....
Added to the list would be
1. Didier Drogba - Diver
2. Javier Mascherano - Bad Sportsmanship
3. Jens Lehmann - Goof Off
4. Ashley Cole - Off The Field Antics
5. Christiano Ronaldo - Diver/Cry-Baby

Re: Disgraceful

Phil — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:14:20 -0000

I don't think any United fan would be happy if the goal was allowed. Your comment of "fair play be damned, so long as United wins" seems a bit silly in this regard.

It was so obvious that there could be no way the goal would have been allowed to stand anyway. To me, it was an act more of frustration than cheating.

All credit to Zenit - they played a great game.

Re: Surprise, surprise | Letter Never Sent

Phil — Thu, 27 Jun 2002 17:54:37 -0000

Unfortunately, it looks like this is going to be overturned by both judges who voted for it by tomorrow's breakfast. Did you see what Bush had to say about it? Whatever.

Re: Today, or was it yesterday | Letter Never Sent

Phil — Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:20:09 -0000

Sweet, I didn't even know the Cremaster Cycle was coming to Austin!

Re: I sleep on my side | Letter Never Sent

Phil — Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:15:46 -0000

I'm a freefall. That's the only way I get to sleep, although I always start in the soldier. What does that mean? That I'm a paratrooper?

Re: Firefox Sidebar + Google IG = Useful on any platform

Phil — Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:10:00 -0000

Cool idea

Re: FREE STUFF ALERT!!!

Phil — Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:04:26 -0000

What are the pots like? I'll take your word on "nice" as far as material, condition, &c.;, but what sizes are they? Nice-ness of size will vary by the sizes of the pots I already have, so...

I've failed to find a hilarious way to relate this (serious) question about size with your post from yesterday. If someone else were to, though, it'd be awesome.

Re: FREE STUFF ALERT!!!

Phil — Wed, 31 Aug 2005 07:35:42 -0000

Yes, it does. But alas, they're gone. Then again, except for the tiniest saucepan, I think I have fairly equivalent sizes. Thanks, though, and good luck with your move!

Re: Lelouch’s Rendez-vous

Phil — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:43:45 -0000

Le making off est excellent ...vous aurez les réponses à vous interrogations...

Re: Guilty Pleasure: Devil Without A Cause

Phil — Sun, 04 May 2008 19:40:15 -0000

For the love of god, I know this is a Guilty Pleasures, such as mine which is Kanye West, but Kid Rock is by far THE worst musician ever.

Re: Radiohead crack open tour at West Palm Beach (5/5)

Phil — Tue, 06 May 2008 19:33:21 -0000

They played for quite some time actually which I thought was surprising. They went on at exactly 9 o'clock (as planned) and ended at about 11 o'clock give or take a couple of minutes. Truly an amazing show and apparently, in the show coming up in Tampa, it was announced that the band did not want the back screens for people who sit lawn to be used.

Re: Protest The Hero drop new video

Phil — Fri, 09 May 2008 10:51:02 -0000

That song kicks sooo much ass. Awesome.

Re: Listen: The Skamericans

Phil — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:32:48 -0000

Defintily will man. I dont know, down here, were forced fed this crap and you really have to go through each one to see which one really and truly matters. I could have sworn I heard something about Cat Empire, maybe it was Stray Cats. Nonetheless, Ill check em out.

Re: Listen: The Skamericans

Phil — Sat, 10 May 2008 00:54:03 -0000

Hey nonetheless its good. lol. Seriously, you guys are awesome.

Re: Listen: The Skamericans

Phil — Sat, 10 May 2008 22:02:19 -0000

Thanks alot man, I just try to give some good local bands here some credit, even if its just a side note.

Re: Listen: The Skamericans

Phil — Sat, 10 May 2008 22:02:21 -0000

Thanks alot man, I just try to give some good local bands here some credit, even if its just a side note.

Re: Radiohead crack open tour at West Palm Beach (5/5)

Phil — Sat, 10 May 2008 22:08:42 -0000

Yeah tell me about it. I was mildly upset, now that I have had time to climb down from my apeasement of the show, due to the fact that they tried far too hard to not play their popular stuff. This is alright but still, come on, give in once and awhile you know? Especially when its their first show in their U.S tour.

Re: The Faint prep new self-release

Phil — Tue, 13 May 2008 22:23:45 -0000

Soooo awesome

Re: Liars reveal deep dark Radiohead tour secrets

Phil — Sat, 24 May 2008 17:41:51 -0000

Funny how when I saw Radiohead live and when Liars opened up for them, the lead singer not only threw water bottles to the crowd, which was very little, he downed himself an entire bottle of Zephyrhills.

Re: Listen: The Mission Veo

Phil — Thu, 29 May 2008 23:08:00 -0000

To each its own, I just miss the old Veo, it was different fun and innovative. This is just remastered and completely boring music. Guitar is amazing, synth I give credit, but the vocals are boring.

Re: Watch: Weezer’s “Pork and Beans”

Phil — Sat, 31 May 2008 14:22:25 -0000

WOW. That was awesome lol.

Re: Morrissey preps new album

Phil — Sat, 31 May 2008 14:58:17 -0000

What a great performance, Morrissey still has it in him, rockin.

Re: Dear Abby Supports Gay Marriage

Phil — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 04:06:15 -0000

So -- who are the people who most vocally and actively oppose gay marriage? I'll tell you who: self-hating closeted homosexual men.

Isn't that a bit like saying a homosexual activist is really a closet heterosexual ?

Re: Dear Abby Supports Gay Marriage

Phil — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 19:12:59 -0000

It simply does not follow that a heterosexual must be homosexual if he disagrees with homosexual activism, you are engaging in ad hominem wishful thinking.

Re: Please England, Feel Free To Keep Gwyneth Paltrow. She Sucks.

Phil — Thu, 07 Dec 2006 04:51:37 -0000

Actually, the streets and light poles in England are normal. You're right about the hookers though.

Re: Over Heard Phone Conversation:

Phil — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 02:51:47 -0000

I eventually found the car

Re: OhGizmo! » Archive » Build Your Own Bike, Laptop… Laundry Machine?!

Phil — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:20:37 -0000

The motorcycle models are also available on an english page:
http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/global/entertainm...

Re: The Private Display

Phil — Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:01:56 -0000

Forgot where I read about it a few weeks ago, but a similar thing was done to a Laptop screens. The outer polarizing layer was removed from the screen making it appear all white when viewed with the naked eye. Only when wearing glasses with a polarizing filter (in the right angle) you could see the contents of the screen. Anyone have a link to this?

Re: OhGizmo! » Archive » The PocketMod

Phil — Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:04:46 -0000

It would be nice, if you'd be able to link it to your existing database of appointments/contacts/etc.
What's the point of printing a schedule if it doesn't contain my appointments?

Re: OhGizmo! » Archive » 5,000 Year Old Recordings Caught On Pottery

Phil — Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:49:58 -0000

you can tell by the production values that it's totally fake

i.e. the framing of the guy they're interviewing... half his head is out of the shot.

Re: Iowa Independent Q&A: On The Bus With Fred Thompson

Phil — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:49:53 -0000

Good Interview I like the answer about the supposed late (10:00am) start on the day. A candidate's public schedule and private schedule don't have to be duplicates. For instance, was this interview on the public schedule? Of course not.

I think the good Sen Thompson, has gotten a bad rap.

Slow talking? Sure.

Deliberate? Absolutely!

But lazy? Doubtful.

People who would rather be napping, don't run for senator and win, the don't get re-elected, they don't run for president. They nap.

Again, good interview.

Re: Smoke ‘Em If You Got ‘Em: Cigarette Ban Passed by House

Phil — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:52:06 -0000

Thank you for the cleaner air I'm a customer who will appreciate the cleaner air in bars and restaurants that we should soon be seeing soon in Iowa. For years I've been hoping to be able to go out and not stink of smoke by the end of the night. And then there's the burning eyes, burning nose, and sore throat that goes with it. And the long term health effects are much worse than that, especially for the staff.

Re: Here’s your Media Browser right here

Phil — Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:04:49 -0000

Is there anyway to export the spotlight results to apache? using xmlhttprequest the results from spotlight could be put on the web.

Re: Software that SUCKS (but doesn’t have to)

Phil — Tue, 11 Apr 2006 02:51:41 -0000

WORST EVER...

The Cisco VPN client uninstall removes /opt. ALL OF IT.

So, if you had darwinports, and you tried to uninstall the Cisco VPN client, you don't have either.

Re: Jeff Carr: What Would You Ask Iran’s President?

Phil — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:02:23 -0000

Thank you so much for doing this. It almost brought tears to my eyes. This trip is in my prayers.

Re: Brian McLaren: Joseph, Noah, and Pre-emptive Preservation

Phil — Tue, 13 Mar 2007 00:56:17 -0000

even if climate change is not happening, can we afford to take the chance? and can we use that as an excuse for not taking care of G-d's earth? even if it's not, it doesn't seem to matter...

Re: UAV Pilots: Who’s got the joy stick?

Phil — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 04:03:00 -0000

My guess is that it will be officer led, but the actual "flying" will fall to the enlisted. That's what my experience in the Army was, anyway.

Re: Confession of a nargila junkie

Phil — Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:10:05 -0000

Yo, who took that AWESOME picture?! And did you get copyright permission to post it on some random Israel blog? You could have a major lawsuit over royalties on your hand.

Re: Confession of a nargila junkie

Phil — Thu, 02 Mar 2006 09:14:12 -0000

What does the Israeli surgeon general say about the long-term consequences of regular nargila smoking?

Re: Imminent terror threat!!!

Phil — Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:25:52 -0000

Stay strong, baby.

Re: BuyItSellIt Storefront – True Simplicity

Phil — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:55:56 -0000

Scott,

i'm interested in selling digital content with bisi...do you have any experience with them on that end? any insight?

Re: BuyItSellIt Storefront – True Simplicity

Phil — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:01:38 -0000

sorry...comment about digital content was to Cliff...

Re: Blogs in Profile?

Phil — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:55:00 -0000

You can edit the layout of your blog in the Settings - Edit HTML section. Look for #sidebartop-wrap and change the padding and/or margin. That should fix your picture problem.

Re: Have I believed a lie? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Phil — Tue, 16 May 2006 14:55:00 -0000

True, what Scott said.

@ "People believe what and how they do for emotional reasons" - Far too often... but always? Across the board? Is this true in other areas besides religion too?

I still have hope that there are people who can put their emotions aside and analyze the facts when it comes to discussing important matters such as religion.

Re: Have I believed a lie? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Phil — Tue, 16 May 2006 23:28:00 -0000

What kind of results are you looking for?

Re: Have I believed a lie? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Phil — Tue, 16 May 2006 23:33:00 -0000

That was to boomslang... I see that xrayman already asked that question though. But hey, if nobody really knows how God would respond, how do you know whether or not you're getting results?

Re: Have I believed a lie? - Testimonies of Ex-Christians

Phil — Tue, 16 May 2006 23:35:00 -0000

BTW... what contradictions?

Re: Blogs in Profile?

Phil — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:17:00 -0000

I have lied (that works on my blgo, not yours), its probably easier if you reduce the image width.

Re: American Food

Phil — Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:04:47 -0000

He'll no doubt think that "fag ash" has something to do with cremated gays and accuse you of being homophobic.

Anyhow, I'm pleased you've found somebody else to flamebait today :-)

Re: chris around the world 2

Phil — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:03:00 -0000

Hey cooler Movie! Hab die Adresse von der Jule bekommen, naja vielleicht kennst mich ja au no! War mit dem Chris auf der ALp in Deutschland...
Da hat er ja mal echt was erlebt, beneide ihn! Will au wieder weg hier aus Deutschland, Australien war einfach zu geil....

Re: The Jaunt NFL Franchise Overview & 2007 Football Preview: Buffalo Bills

Phil — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:52:00 -0000

There's 41 Jills, with 3 girls named Jessica, 2 named Jill, and 3 named Kaitlin as well....and there's only one Stephanie...the veteran is named Stefanie. Last season, they spent less time than usual in winter coats as no snow fell during any Bills home games. Anyway, the large squad size is necessary for the large demand for public appearances by the Jills

Re: Long Journey Home

Phil — Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:00:00 -0000

can't wait to hear about your adventures. i still can't get an image of a successfully out gay guy at my high school, but i'm working on it.

dream big i always say, or at least i just said.

Re: A Treatise on Episodic Gameplay, Part One

Phil — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:11:20 -0000

IIRC, the new Alone in the Dark game is simply confusingly described, in light of other recent "episodic" games.

My understanding is that the storyline will indeed progress in an 'episodic' format, but you don't buy them separately -- all the episodes are included on the CD/DVD. It's more akin to buying the DVD set of a TV series... the story plays out in episodes, but you don't have to wait for (and pay for) each new episode individually.

Re: This has got to be one of the dumbest products ever

Phil — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:59:52 -0000

Ouch.

Re: Disable your Internal Speaker’s Beep in Linux | Tombuntu

Phil — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:27:42 -0000

Here's what I did:
$ sudo vi /etc/inputrc

Remove the # in front of "set bell-style visible"

Now you get a flash in your terminal window instead of a bell, and that's for all users.

Re: Waste Some Time

Phil — Sun, 30 Oct 2005 01:10:00 -0000

2182.

I hate you.

Re: SQL-FU

Phil — Thu, 15 Jun 2006 16:05:00 -0000

haha nerd test.

I fail.

go me.

Re: vacation in balconia

Phil — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:25:00 -0000

I KNOW!! It's so tough to choose between the crazy antics of Frank and Dina on BT OR the informative overload of CP24. Watching myself on CityNews last night (i'm an attention whore), I noticed in the news room, they still have a CP24 logo in the background. Weird.

Re: The End of Design as I Know It

Phil — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:46:00 -0000

Hey this is a great blog and I seem to connect with you on many of the points in your history here… Interesting parallel with the story of Israel. Like the lines at the foot of your page, I think there are likely more of us whose stories run parallel to Israel's.

Hoping God will save me from my Design affair in the near future.

Sure, I'm mainly working in production so mine is a lesser sin than the one who thinks up the sinister ideas, right? I feel that as long as I am aware of what I'm doing to my culture and the people around me, including my Family, how can I go on producing these enticements? Surely God will find a way out for us and Hes got to have a plan for us too and He'll prosper us, but it will not be easy.

I know He can pull us out of it.

Thank God for Jesus and our freedom in Him by the undeserved grace He's blessed us with!

Keep on posting! This righteous truth (and knowing others are going through similar battles) helps me to carry on…

Peace and brotherly love,

Phil

p.s. If you want to contact me sometime I'd love to chat.

Re: The End of Design as I Know It

Phil — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:48:00 -0000

Hey this is a great blog and I seem to connect with you on many of these points…

I'm actually on my way out of design as I type (hopefully) and although I see there is some good to be done with it, I still Idolize it too much and fell myself adulterating with it even if I rarely work on some good things too.

The truth that the Holy Spirit has been blasting me with lately is that for the most part, they're selling lies. I'm involved with that and the fallout is not going to be pretty. Speaking of pretty, the prettiness that I help to create to sell and market … it's all lies!

Sure, I'm mainly working in production so mine is a lesser sin than the one who think up the sinister ideas, right? I feel that as long as I am aware of what I'm doing to my culture and the people around me, including my Family, how can I go on producing these enticements? Surely God will find a way out for us and Hes got to have a plan for us too and He'll prosper us, but it will not be easy.

I know He can pull us out of it. Thank God for Jesus and our freedom in Him by the undeserved grace He's blessed us with! Thankfully we have the Holy Spirit to lead us and who seems to have brought us together in this similar situation.

Peace and brotherly love,

Phil

p.s. if you want to contact me sometime, feel free…

Re: Muslim Demographics: We’re Taking Over the World?

Phil — Fri, 01 May 2009 17:22:12 -0000

One of the interesting things ive seen in stuff written at the turn of the 19/20 century is that at that time the estimated number of muslims was 200-300 million.

But yeah, we should remember the lesson from the prophetic era that numbers by themselves will not give us success/victory.

Reminds me of a saying from a book i am reading, "Islam is a religion without men/people and Christianity is people without a religion".

Re: Loosing Gracefully

Phil — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:06:54 -0000

Fuck off, mav727 you cocksmoker.

Re: Be Like Jesus

Phil — Wed, 28 May 2008 17:50:00 -0000

Sorry you had such a hard time getting ahold of it. If you'd like more copies, we can definitely send you some - contact:

Bernie_Dake@uss.salvationarmy.org

Grace,

Phil

Re: Grandparents

Phil — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:59:00 -0000

I feel I missed out on this part of life. As the father of a 3 year old with one more on the way, I pray my kids are able to enjoy both sets of grandparents for years to come, God willing.

Re: The Journey

Phil — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:28:00 -0000

Thanks, Commissioner. I needed that reminder....

Re: New job title: Systems Engineer

Phil — Fri, 07 May 2004 21:58:53 -0000

Congrats on the promotion... Bet you didn't know that I read your site... :-)

Re: Twitter Flutters into Mainstream Culture: The New Competition for Attention Starts with You

Phil — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:37:00 -0000

Twitter is responsible for a 50% traffic increase on our blog. Thanks Brian, great article.
http://www.pickedbyguys.com

Re: Content Thieving Splog is OFFLINE!

Phil — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 03:37:19 -0000

Predictably, the "underaged" girl image they've posted is ripped off from a porn site (except the WOG bit, which they of course have added).

Re: Twitter Flutters into Mainstream Culture: The New Competition for Attention Starts with You

Phil — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:37:00 -0000

Twitter is responsible for a 50% traffic increase on our blog. Thanks Brian, great article.
http://www.pickedbyguys.com

Re: Finding An Internet Home Based Business Opportunity

Phil — Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:55:59 -0000

Home-Biz-Group.com has the TOP Money Making Home Business and Work at Home Opportunities and Ideas available on the Internet today! Tired of Scams and Rip-offs! We have researched the Internet for Years and We can tell you that the opportunities on our site are safe and legitimate! We have Paid Survey, Medical Transcription, Type at Home, Mystery Shopper, Data Entry, Home Crafts Business, Learn how to sell on eBay, Scrap Booking for Profits, Home Business, and Internet Business Opportunities. So if you are a stay at home Mom, a college student, or anyone that is looking for a safe website to find that perfect Work at Home Business Opportunity or Idea, You have found the right place! Our Owner is also a Member of The National Business Advisory Council, A trusted name! We have 1000's of work at home and home business opportunities! You can also do your online shopping on our site as a convenience to our customers. You can also advertise your new business on our high traffic site!

http://www.philsinner.com/recommends/homebusine... :

Re: On the Sanford Affair

Phil — Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:00:00 -0000

What makes us think that someone who refuses to honor one oath -- his marriage vow -- is going to honor his oath of office?

Exactly, if you can't keep a promise to a SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL -how are you going to keep a promise to a concept called "the public".

We all know infidelity has always occurred-and always will-but the only way to determine the seriousness of the aldulter's contrition is the passage of time (years and decades, not weeks and months).

If we held politicians to the same standards as the rest of us, the affairs of state would all have to be conducted from within prison walls.

But we don't.

Re: Generosity from the White House

Phil — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 05:57:58 -0000

So you think the professor will get an IRS audit or be put on a terrorist watch list?

Re: Verite from Veronique

Phil — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:35:12 -0000

Good points. But the graphic comparing the standard of living in the US versus France shows a pile of hamburgers next to one croissant. The US GDP per capita is larger than that in France, but not several times larger. I expect better from Reason.

Re: Dog Bites Man, Part II

Phil — Fri, 08 May 2009 19:43:23 -0000

Here's how the cuts go.. not making this up.

A friend of mine is a VOLUNTEER at the Steamtown National Historic Site who told me about this site. He and others shovels coal into a locomotive (interesting thing to volunteer for, but standing in front of a roaring fire dressed in coveralls when it's 90 degrees, not my thing)

They just got over 3 mil in stimulus money, but informed volunteers that no federal money can be spent on what was the annual volunteer banquet. Yessir, about 50 volunteers make it per year and figure that its probably 20-25 bucks a head-so they'll be saving $1000 to $1250.

Re: Worship Projection Software

Phil — Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:22:00 -0000

We use easyworship at Northern - I would highly recommend it!

Re: Hosts vs Sub Domains

Phil — Fri, 16 Dec 2005 02:43:00 -0000

thanks, this was very interesting for us "non-techies"

Re: Test Of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL)

Phil — Tue, 09 Nov 2004 12:24:52 -0000

Cheer up, I have to be up only an hour later than that (5:30am) nearly every day to go to work.

Re: What’s New in the Comment Spamming World

Phil — Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:18:25 -0000

Lovely, informative site, thanks.

Re: Tiga (& Madonna?!) – Shoes (Soulwax Production) via BBC Radio 1

Phil — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:51:18 -0000

"but why is her Madgesty singing with Tiga? Is she screwing him too? Youâ€™re so bad M."

Haha Gossip Girl anybody? Made me laugh!

Re: Cutler gets the nod

Phil — Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:17:21 -0000

Jake had his chance last year. Shanahan had a brilliant draft by adding Cutler and trading for Walker. Now it is time for the rookie to get some experience and Cutler gives the Donkeys a better chance to reach the Super Bowl. i.e. Brady and Roethlisberger
LETS GO BRONCOS!

Re: Cutler gets the nod

Phil — Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:33:56 -0000

Jake lost his job last year performing poorly in the AFC Championship. Shanahan had another brilliant draft by trading for Walker and trading up to select Cutler. This move is simple for Shanahan; Cutler provides the Donkeys a better chance of winning a Super Bowl than Jake. I applaud Shanahan's decesion because Cutler can carry Denver back to the Super Bowl- if his teammates coaches and fans believe. LETS GO BRONCOS!

Re: 09970054433

Phil — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:52:51 -0000

YAY I won lots of money, send it me now !!!

Re: 01253757066

Phil — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:52:20 -0000

call me a lot to, getting right on my nerves. I even told them ive never had a bank charge but they still call.

Re: 01614917208

Phil — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:47:19 -0000

I used comparethemarket.com and now this calls me. It must be car insurance releated.

Re: First Zune HD Commercial

Phil — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:20:00 -0000

Pre order has been available for a month. MS never give unit sales number for Zune and

it is doubtful this will change. Because Zune hasn’t been a profitable business for MS.

No trash talk here but just fact.

This comment was originally posted on Engadget

Re: 01933442211

Phil — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:17:00 -0000

Company is called Best Deal Insurance

Re: Radiohead – Wonderwall (Oasis Cover)

Phil — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 06:46:42 -0000

"taking THE piss"

Re: Videos of Sea Shepherd Intentionally (?) Ramming Japanese Whaler

Phil — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:46:35 -0000

If the environmentalists would risk killing people to save whales, I don't see a difference between them and people who kill whales. The so-called environmentalists have let themselves be dragged down to the level of the actions they are protesting.

Choose your enemies carefully because you become just like the.

Whaling is not under the radar. It's well-publicized by mainstream media.

Re: Need More Juice for Your AA Battery? Shake, Shake, Shake!

Phil — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:12:49 -0000

These would be great for applications like bike lights as you could be charging them as you go.

Re: US Chamber Of Commerce Opposes Possible Carbon Tariff: Indicates "Green Trade War" May Result

Phil — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 08:49:04 -0000

Germany calls carbon tariffs "eco-imperialism"

(Reuters) Germany called a French idea to slap "carbon tariffs" on products from countries that are not trying to cut greenhouse gases a form of "eco-imperialism" and a direct violation of WTO rules.

The issue of greenhouse tariffs has met bitter opposition from developing countries such as China and India, who count on the developed world to buy their exports as they build their economies in the face of the worst financial crisis in decades.

Matthias Machnig, Germany's State Secretary for the Environment, told a news briefing on Friday that a French push for Europe to impose carbon tariffs on imports from countries that flout rules on carbon emissions would send the wrong signal to the international community.

"There are two problems -- the WTO (World Trade Organization), and the signal would be that this is a new form of eco-imperialism," Machnig said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/internal_ReutersNewsRoom_BehindTheScenes_MOLT/idUSTRE56N1RJ20090724

Re: Greening Your Computer

Phil — Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:31:23 -0000

Has anyone conducted an environemntal audit of a computer ?

Not just the ongoing power requirements for operation, (which would be damn interesting in it's own right for data centre servers and the associated cooling systems) what I am interested in is the measured environmental impact of producing a desktop PC.

I do wonder how much impact that new Dell has before it's even plugged in. I'm guessing it's substantial given some fo the components and manufacturing processes and I suspect the construction of a PC is probably the single highest impact event and the operational impact is likely a trickle in comparison.

A carbon neutral web hosting company might be possible if such stats were available.

Re: TreeHugger: First Stab at TV...Green Tips for Slackers

Phil — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 03:12:15 -0000

great idea! I'd say keep those episodes comming...

Re: Yes To Cork — Save Forests, Jobs and the Iberian Lynx

Phil — Thu, 18 May 2006 11:11:44 -0000

I much prefer real corks to those spongy synthetic ones, but what are we supposed to do with them afterwards? Any good (easy) way to recycle/reuse?

Re: Instant Survey: Hybrid Hype?

Phil — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:07:47 -0000

Diesel emissions may be dirtier, but if you run biodiesel, the "net effect" on air quality is ZERO (or close to it). This is because the CO2 emissions absorbed by growing the plants that produced the vegetable oil cancels out the CO2 output by burning it while driving. So its a closed loop. Forget fancy technology that relies on future infrastructure - the diesel engine was designed over 100 years ago to run on vegetable (peanut) oil, and because of the "net zero" effect on CO2 emissions is a sustainable solution.

--

editor note: True, though making biodiesel supply scale can be a problem. The most promising solution is algae-based production, IMO.

Re: Electric Mini: 0-60 in 4 Seconds: It Has Motors In Its Wheels

Phil — Wed, 30 Aug 2006 23:03:22 -0000

Correction, what you ment to say was 1 HP = 746 Watts

Formula is still correct.

4 x 160 x 746 = 477,440 watts of power

Thats enough power to light up a small town

Re: Stand in Front of This Microwave

Phil — Mon, 05 Mar 2007 01:30:21 -0000

Egg! That's bollocks... I guess it would work if you lived in only one room, but sheesh!

Re: Scary Warnings Promote Apathy, Not Action

Phil — Thu, 17 May 2007 23:34:19 -0000

A similar but more actionable point was made by Anthony Pratkanis and Elliot Aronson in the excellent Age of Propaganda ( http://tinyurl.com/23fw7y )

Their research suggested that when the message outweighed the audience's ability to react, the message was demotivating. However, when a fear message was coupled with a simple and do-able response that seemed as if it might do some good, then there was a much higher liklihood of getting a response.

After all, if scary warnings didn't promote action, how did GW Bush get re-elected to a second term? It was the scary message of terrorism combined with the simple response (vote) that lead to the Bush 2nd term.

That, and cheating.

But anyone interested in advocacy, advertising, PR or media-jamming should definitely give the Age of Propaganda a read.

Re: Clarkson Still Not Listening

Phil — Sun, 11 May 2008 07:06:02 -0000

I agree completely that global warming is rubbish, we'll all be dead by the time it makes a difference. Clarkson should be made prime minister and sort out this rotten country.

Re: Organic Cotton: For Clothing, Baby, Bedding and More

Phil — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:02:16 -0000

To address the question raised earlier about the lack of locally produced organic cotton goods, "Grow Free" is a new line of organic clothing for girls and juniors that is designed, grown, sewn and made in the USA. The site is still in its early days, but check it out for a preview of the clothes: http://www.growfreeusa.com</p>

Online ordering will be available within a few weeks.

Re: Converting Your Car To An Electric Vehicle

Phil — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:57:23 -0000

I read about electric cars being pollution free, but if you plug them in to recharge them, aren't you using electricity created by coal-fired generators? Coal-fired generation of electricity seems to be the most efficient energy source in America, so maybe that's better than burning gasoline. But I'd think people should realize that if they recharge their 'pollutionless' electric car at home, they're creating more demand for more electricity, more power lines in their backyards, and more coal-burning generation.

Re: Converting Your Car To An Electric Vehicle

Phil — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:12:29 -0000

> Check out this page, I think it answers your questions:

I'm sorry to say it doesn't answer all my questions and raises more.

The page comments in passing that gasoline pollutes from the ground through all it's refinery stages to burning in the car, but it says coal-fired plants are getting cleaner. I'd like to hear about the pollution from coal from the ground through burning in the plant. Are they finding that there's no pollution in coal mines? That the health risks to miners are comparable to oilworkers? And the death rates? That getting the coal processed from the mine and delivered to the plant doesn't pollute?

If electric cars are plugged in at night when rates are down, are they saying this won't increase demand? That night rates won't increase to meet this new demand? We had rolling blackouts in California a few years back, and they threaten with every hot summer. Will having electric cars not make it worse by creating a situation where there's 24-hour demand? (Assuming we all plug our cars in at night.) Will we not need new generating capacity? Won't we need new or updated power grids to meet increased use from electric cars?

As I said, I think coal-fired generators are most efficient fuel source in America, but I'd like to see more information on what the results of increased demand from plug-in electric cars does regarding the need to mine more coal, build more plants, and increase the number of transmission lines to get the electricity to my house.

I think the Electric Auto Association (the source of that Web page) has an agenda just like everyone else. I don't think I'm getting the whole story from that page.

Re: Seen in New YorkJersey: Geico's Mindless Littering Campaign

Phil — Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:42:14 -0000

Or everyone could just call and email them and tell them that they are angry about the litter and that they won't buy their products in future.

I used to get sent an envelope with lots of junk mail inside. That way it would appear as a legitimate letter and (presumably) would get to people with 'no junk mail' stickers on their mail boxes. It would always make me mad. I'd be tempted to send it back to the people, but there was never a return address, and I thought that I at least would recycle the paper whereas they would just trash it.

There should be laws against junk like this.

Re: Wayback Machine: Solar Power From Contracting Wires, 1932

Phil — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:25:41 -0000

I think it raises the question of patenting technology for anti-competative purposes. I wonder whether that is illegal. If it isn't, perhaps it should be.

Re: Survey: How Do You Dry Your Clothes?

Phil — Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:40:24 -0000

i've never even heard of these crying sheet thingies. Are they just a North American thing or am I not with the times?

We either use the clothes line outside or clothes horses inside if the weather is bad, and only ever use the dryer if we've been bad with planning ahead and need something in a hurry - which is maybe two or three times a year at most.

I understand that people live in apartments with no clothes lines, but the fact that I've managed to get through life without these drying sheet thingies makes me think that they're not a necessity and that other people can get by without them also.

Re: Jalopnik on No PARK(ing) Day

Phil — Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:55:28 -0000

I definitely support having more green space in urban areas, but I can't support this idea. I find it extremely counterproductive and almost infuriating. One spot out of hundreds for a few hours may not be a large chunk of available parking, but to anyone trying to park, it FEELS like a lot.

As Willy Bio alluded to, pissing somebody off and having a negative impact is not a good way to garner support. People who'd support this type of thing are probably already supporters of the 'movement'. Not a net gain.

Re: Jalopnik on No PARK(ing) Day

Phil — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:02:28 -0000

I'm not here to spread any hatred or anything, I'd never even heard of Jalopnik. Why can't we promote more green and have fun without affecting other people in a bad way? (And as an aside, how about doing it without doing the ad-hominem thing or by labeling someone's points as 'hatred'?)

Re: Designer Emulation Kits: Flatpack Homage to Classic Modern Lighting

Phil — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:02:37 -0000

This looks like more consumerism for consumerism's sake. Somebody is China is making a lot of money because silly people in developed countries like buying 'clever' gadgets that they will use for a week and then throw away. I wish treehugger would stop reviewing these silly 'clever' gadgets.

A few comments on the product - If it is pressed metal, then I wonder what happens to the 85% of the metal sheet that got pressed out? It looks like 85% of it got thrown away, and even if it was recycled, then it would have to be transported an melted down, all of which requires energy.

I think you'd be better off riding your bike down to a second hand shop and buying a second hand lamp.

Stop Consuming Gadgets!

Re: Variety Comes Back to the Supermarket

Phil — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 12:13:17 -0000

Where do you usually do your groceries? ;) Even in the 'bland' chain stores, I typically see 4+ varieties of apple. Most of the standards are Red Delicious (as you mentioned, Golden Delicious, Granny Smith, Royal Gala, Rome, Macintosh, and sometimes a Pink Lady or Cameo or some other less popular variety.

Re: Survey: Do You Telecommute?

Phil — Sat, 20 Oct 2007 09:34:20 -0000

No. I cycle-commute.

Re: City of Seattle Gives Bottled Water the Boot

Phil — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 01:11:26 -0000

Fluoridated water is the single greatest public health victory we've acheived in the last 30 years or so. Cavity rates declined steadily at amazing rates as more cities fluoridated their water. However, in the last 5-10 years, when the bottled water fad really caught fire, the cavity rates went up for the first time in years, because people weren't getting enough fluoride.

If you actually believe the "studies" that have been done saying that it's poisonous, you should probably take out all your fillings, because the government is controlling your brain with them. Or maybe aliens, I forget which one... Real scientific studies are published in real scientific journals. Try searching a site like PubMed instead of dumpster diving on Google, where any crazy person can pass off biased rants and conspiracy theories as research.

Re: Terry Kenney Wants to Turn Big Truck Traffic into Electricity

Phil — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:38:21 -0000

It's not apparent to me whether these plates will just be stealing energy from the trucks. This is fine, of course, if the truck is supposed to be slowing down.

Re: Treehugger Buys an SUV - Hell freezes, Arctic Melts?

Phil — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:05:32 -0000

What a bunch of lame-ass excuses. You "need" an SUV for 3 people? When I was a kid in the 70's my parents drove a 2 door VW bug and we kids sat in the back seat - I was not traumatized. Why do people need more room nowadays?

"TreeHugger"? Apparently just a bunch of greenwash. Sounds to me like Mark went to a car dealer and got hit by a very good salesman and now he's trying to justify his mistake.

Come on, you run a blog called "TreeHugger", one would hope you could set a better example.

Re: Hypermiling Causes Road Rage? Hypermiling a Fad?

Phil — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:22:06 -0000

I have been trying to be as efficient as I can with my '04 Kia Rio. The main thing I've done to increase my mileage (from about 30-32 to 36-37) is to drive 65 instead of 75 and take it out of gear on the downhills.

I used to turn off my car on the downhills until I almost crashed into someone because the brakes lost pressure after pumping them a couple times. With my kids in the car, that is just not a risk I am willing to take.

Re: 7 Cheap and Easy Vegetarian Meals

Phil — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:51:32 -0000

If you can get your hands on a slow-cooker (aka a crock pot), making dishes like stews can be even easier. Just pop your ingredients in before you leave for work and you'll have dinner waiting for you when you get home.

Re: Videos of Sea Shepherd Intentionally (?) Ramming Japanese Whaler

Phil — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:46:35 -0000

Choose your enemies carefully because you become just like the.

Whaling is not under the radar. It's well-publicized by mainstream media.

Re: Need More Juice for Your AA Battery? Shake, Shake, Shake!

Phil — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:12:49 -0000

These would be great for applications like bike lights as you could be charging them as you go.

Re: US Chamber Of Commerce Opposes Possible Carbon Tariff: Indicates \"Green Trade War\" May Result

Phil — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 05:49:04 -0000

Germany calls carbon tariffs "eco-imperialism"

(Reuters) Germany called a French idea to slap "carbon tariffs" on products from countries that are not trying to cut greenhouse gases a form of "eco-imperialism" and a direct violation of WTO rules.

"There are two problems -- the WTO (World Trade Organization), and the signal would be that this is a new form of eco-imperialism," Machnig said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/internal_Reuters...>

Re: Former Attorney General in Cyclist/Driver \"Altercation\"

Phil — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:52:18 -0000

"Toronto's tony Bloor Street, but the shoppers with their Mercedes and Bentleys"

Lloyd paints a colourful picture. I've never seen more than the usual amount of Mercedes than you see anywhere else in Toronto, it's a fairly common car -- but Bentleys?! What? No evil corporate robber barons wearing silk top hats, riding in the back of chauffeur-driven Dusenbergs?

"Michael Bryant was a popular Attorney General ..."

Now he's just making stuff up. Bryant is widely regarded as another of McGuinty's Liberal Party hacks.

The best is that he thinks a bicycle lane on Bloor would somehow magically prevent psychotics from attacking moving cars. Suuuure ...

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/07/mercades-nichols-back-in-jail.html

Phil — Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:13:54 -0000

Angel that is just Mercades good hearted spirit showing through .at first it was her heartfelt concern for the shelf in stead of Victoria ,Now certain people thought this made her insensitive to the beating Victoria was getting but it was just her caring for the shelf and as some said it was a threatning act , ruining a lawn but as you point out it Was just free landscaping , How can one as sweet and kind and such a good friend to all that know her be so misunderstood

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/03/mayes-and-nichols-sentenced-in-victoria.html

Phil — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:59:19 -0000

It is hard to say . I always try to believe an apology . It just dosen,t change the facts that the sentences of guilty were woefully inadequet

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/03/mayes-and-nichols-sentenced-in-victoria.html

Phil — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 07:26:37 -0000

Cooper got 2 years probationand hassels one year
Cooper read a public letter of apology to the Lindsays ,it did not say much what was in the leter or if Victoria was there

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/03/mayes-and-nichols-sentenced-in-victoria.html

Phil — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 19:26:48 -0000

Gomp
Is that what we should wish for that they screw up break probation and perhaps get a judge with teeth . The problem with this is that they may screw up someone elses life in the process. what i hope for is that they will be sneered at for the cowarads that they are . Jobs turned down . loud comments are parties and wispering that just about stops when the walk into the rm . They deserve so much more then a spineless judge and SAO has given them .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/02/mercades-nichols-mom-arrested-for.html

Phil — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:13:56 -0000

Hi AmyV and Gomp Up late myself interesting points about BH . What a case defendants getting Pregnent ,Victims father on one site defendants mother on another ,Mother arrested for beating up the daughter she so long defended against those who wanted to beat her up . From life in prison to community service
Strange stuff indeed

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/02/mercades-nichols-mom-arrested-for.html

Phil — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:05:33 -0000

Scott ,We all want BH to go to jail who knows what Victoria wants .If she wanted jailtime for any of them then she could have made this known publically thus putting presure on the state .So Scott you may be wrong on this one . You would think she would want all of them in jail God and everbody else knows thats what I wanted and I only had to endure the watching of the tape . But Victoria and Talsia seem to have a different view . I am still not sure what Victoria's father thinks .
Hi AmyV great post you are right you can tell a criminal by thier actions and these people are criminals to bad the courts have not treated them as such

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/02/mercades-nichols-mom-arrested-for.html

Phil — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:28:55 -0000

Guessing What Victoria would want if dificult at best . She is on record as saying she didn't want prison time for the guilty , We don't know why . or what she feels about the 8 that were involved . I have said it before Victoria is a tough character . She got up off the floor to press charges . Some say They can't wait till she acts like an adult . Seems to me thats what she has been trying to do . Make her own way not wanting to live at home . What she is not doing is acting like a teenager , Who knows though we can all guess away . Do not expect any help from Victoria on this.So you can believe her Father ,which I do but you have to realizes what he sees as major faults in his daughter I do not . Imature stubborn adolesences or free spirit depends on your views . . I think Victoria is a survivor who will outlast March 30 . i do not think haveing regrets makes up alot of Victoria's time . The 6 girls however will wallow in this fer the rest of your lives . It will be very interesting whether Victoria will be at the sentencing herrings . I do not think so . The rest of us including the guilty are more into this then Victoria seems to be.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/02/mercades-nichols-mom-arrested-for.html

Phil — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:09:14 -0000

This was
posted By Sarto on Mercades Mom Sues .
That is the thread that Trench Does not want used I havw copied and pasted it to here . Because
Like always Sarto writes things worth reading so agian what is wriiten below is by Sarto

I wonder how long it will be before this story really plays itself out. Unknown, apparently Victoria’s father, tells us on Toppix that his daughter continues the dark away-from-her family journey that brought her to that tragic moment almost a year ago. How long before she finally joins the adult world that she still seems to reject?

In the meanwhile, Christina and Mercades continue their own destructive dance. Granted, Christina said some imprudent things about the police when this whole thing started, but in many ways she seems to have grown. She put her financial future on the line to keep her daughter out of jail. She speaks about losing her house by the end of February. What did Mercades say or do to trigger this explosion from her mother? The only good point is this: They both said they still love each other. But how long before this story ends?

The others? Kayla, obviously full of regret, expressing deep remorse. April Cooper, bigger and stronger and scary as ever. Did the judge, who seems clueless, note her attitude? B. Mayes? She could still see some prison time, either as a juvenile or as an adult. B. Hardcastle? Scared of adult jail, shedding tears of sorrow for herself as she accepts her fate. What has she learned, this girl who enjoyed something that can only be described as torture? And now, she is pregnant. Will this girl ever stop making losers’ moves?

In a couple of weeks, sentences will be imposed and the thread will end. The future? Something tells me we will hear from some of these girls again. I pray for them all.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/02/mercades-nichols-mom-arrested-for.html

Phil — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:44:06 -0000

Good analogy Gomp , anger and compassion . But as everyone is welcoming you to the club I would feel less then neighbouly if I did not include my own welcome to the club .not much of a club really for me it usally means I have to apologize to someone for something That has its own rewardes I guess . I agree on every thing you said about Christina . its not the fight we were not there nor would have anyone else been there if she hadn't of called the cops . To throw her whole family back into the spotlight for this is ridiculous . then she says that Mercades was not innocent in all of this , You figure , my god we have been saying what kind of person Mercades is for near a year now ,Christina nearly gave Mercades a longer sentece then the judge did for her role in beating the crap out of her friend .
I have no problem believing Christina when she is pointing out the bad side of Mercades . I guess dis respecting your Nana is worse then watching and encouraging your friends to beat ,humiliate , a friend in your own house ,
Well every one has to draw that line in the sand , to make sure that your kids no right from wrong .To say no more . I would think an earlier time would have been more benificial

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/02/last-of-suspects-plea-in-victoria.html

Phil — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 13:08:39 -0000

Hi guyys
As expected no jail yime for Mayes .A gutless performancce by the SAO to match a gutless performance by the six guilty thugs that were in the room . I hope this follows them for the rest of thier lives .I shoudn,t of looked in to see what happened , now its going to take a lot more pina colodas to wash away the pissed off mood that spinless judge and inept SAO has put me in .
I can.t wait to see what BM will get a freakin parade is my guees .
Karma don.t forget in Canada no one,s name would have been published they would have all been proteced by the The Young Offenders Act which for our American friends allows young offenders to do what ever the hell they like with little fear of meaningful punishment Got to go There is still more Tequila to go through before I can think about the disapointment of how this case ended .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/01/plea-reached-in-victoria-lindsay.html

Phil — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 11:43:07 -0000

Scott I better type quickly sometimes I can post sometimes not.
You will likley see 6 months for BH and i bet she will be the only one to serve time . An absolut \e joke when someone can invite people over allow them to visciously beat a friend allow these same people to record it to add to the humiliation and only get probaton ,. The lesson to the youth . If you want to get someone just supply the place, invite over who you want to do the beating then throw up your arms in a mock suprise of innocense .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/01/plea-reached-in-victoria-lindsay.html

Phil — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:49:10 -0000

Mercades has accepted plea deal

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/01/plea-reached-in-victoria-lindsay.html

Phil — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:34:44 -0000

Gomp Ask
" Gomp hard questions to answer
Many people will say no that if you add the public scorn to what ever
punishment they will recieve .Then include the general disdain that a large dded to the negative image that a huge part of populatinn has for the participants , they should not have to have a felony Charge attached .

The exception to some will be BH at just under 18 and the absolute Visciousness of her attack will probaaly get her a felony conviction .
This is where to me it starts to get tricky . Was Bh acting out some ones interest .If they knew this would happen and facilitated the assult with planning or timing , then part of the pysical damaged inflicted becomes part of thier legal resonsibility . If you provide a place for others to assult someone you are guilty of assult wether you hit or dont hit . . If it was planned wasBH just the most viscious of the total acts of the group ..The actions of them all are too intertwined to know where someones resposibility stops and someone elses begin ,
If the state had only 2 options then they should have chosen to convict with felonys it is not if the they did not do these deeds .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/01/plea-reached-in-victoria-lindsay.html

Phil — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:41:36 -0000

The trouble with the current way of thinking to me is that everybody wants it both ways they want a strong sentence that sends the proper message and stiff enough to say that that Victoria got justice yet with no lasting reprecussions for the defendents .If they are guilty of felony charges then they should have recieved feolny convictions . The sentences are woefully lacking in any deterent mecanisms nor do they reflect the seriousiness of the crimes commited . ..These girls deserve to have a lifetime attachment by thier names to shy away from this truth is the courts shying away from thier responsibiliteis . Felony convictions were earned by the actions of the defendents ..To have them pleaded away although fortunate for those luckey enough does not make them any less deserving then those that may or will receive them
...To get proper justice then do we now hope that society will not let these girls forget how we detested thier actions and even further do we wish that society shows them no forgiveness ,so to do the job that the proscecutors have not .Do we want this to follow them to the job interviws ,meeting the new boyfriends family. Do we want thier daughters to find the tape on the internet so to again make the defendents feel the anguish and face the consequenses of thier actions .If ever there were youth crimes that deserved adult status and the punishmentes that went with them it is these people for these actions .There was indeed enough blame to go around .the state did not have to pick and choose and give sentences that would not discouage anyone from seeking to do this type of violence .When they were charged as adults pretty much every body agreed that this was just, The felony charges were well explainedand still the very vast majority though it still just and represented the acts commited . .When the courts fail to make the tough decesions and show mercey to those that did not show mercey to the victim then the defendents win and we all lose .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/01/plea-reached-in-victoria-lindsay.html

Phil — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:12:07 -0000

So Scott ' what do tou do with Mercades and BH ,one year for each not time for Mercades and what would you have Mercades plead guilty to .This is also what the state
is faced with.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/01/plea-reached-in-victoria-lindsay.html

Phil — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:09:37 -0000

Gomp -exactly what my next point was going to be
First off Scott I just used your example with Mercades because it was most recent .Not to dispute anyone's ideas of what some deserve The assult charges facing Mercades are the least of her worries. She would take the BM deal in a minute, but mayby not if it could be a year in Jail. My next question then is equally hard , Do you think the defendents have or will be more deservidly punished if thyy were charged in juvenile court without the tape being released , or the more linient sentencing but with the noeriety that has been brought on them ,

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/01/plea-reached-in-victoria-lindsay.html

Phil — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:38:38 -0000

I have to post here because .I am having problems submitting my post on the other thread

We have had alot of discussions about plea deals and such . Lot's of great debates . I have been really asking questions about specfic charges lately .I would like to explain why .When we say that BM should of got more . All of us pretty much agree to light of a sentence .In any plea deal you have to plead guilty to certain charges .You just cant say 2 years jail + 3 years probation Just because thats what a judge feels thier overall actions deserve.For what BM pled guilty to the maximim is one year You can't really add to a maximum sentence . In order for BM to get an increased sentence is to plead guilty to one of the 2 other charges .Kidnapping and forcible confinement and tampering with a witness are felony charges .

So do you think BM should have had a felony conviction attached to her sentencing . There is no other way to give them more then a year as the charges were laid.
This becomes the same issue i think with the other girls .With BH I do not think they will wave the felony charges .So does at April at 14 deseve a felony conviction .With her they may have come up with something more creative ,this is where it gets the hardest,Does anyone believe that Mercades is innocent . The answer is usually no .She is guilty . When I ask what is she guilty of . Which of the charges she is facing would you have her convicted of . Scott says she should not be charged in the asult because she didn't hit Victoria .This means she would I think have to plead guilty to a felony charges .Does her actions deserve felony convictions and all that it means . if no do you convict her of assult if you do not think the evidence supports the charge . Do you just let her go .

It is not enough just to pick a sentence you have to look what the defendents have to plead guilty of to get the deal

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/01/plea-reached-in-victoria-lindsay.html

Phil — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:56:44 -0000

test

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/01/plea-reached-in-victoria-lindsay.html

Phil — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:10:17 -0000

To Trench as soon as i hit the submit button on my last post my internet window closed . i really hope its the site .Again it is happening at two diferent places under 2 different accounts
Thanks Phil

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/01/plea-reached-in-victoria-lindsay.html

Phil — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:06:19 -0000

To Trench
when I am trying to log on this site my internet shuts down .This has happened at 2 different sites and at this one if i try to go to a different thread .Example Casey Anthony Or Plea deal offered from this site internet shuts down.At home I cannot even get into MCS .No other site I visit at home or here at work is doing this .Is anyone else have issues.
I know i was able to post from here this morning on the other thread but now i cannot and it took me 3 trys to get on here .

Re: Actual Prison Break Music!

Phil — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:14:49 -0000

does anyone know the classical song in season 3 episode 12 when they get picked up by the boat? thanks

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2009/02/last-of-suspects-plea-in-victoria.html

Phil — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:34:11 -0000

Was that a slap or a touch couldn't really tell .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 04:37:05 -0000

Amyv
Sorry I I should of sent some pina colades your way to cool you off some but if you are worked up like I am over the way things went then only in our minds do we get justice .
Truly a sad end to a sad case .This outcome was truly pre written as soon as the state opted for plea deals . As Scott so often said why wait a year for this crap,
You see I just as upset and too early for pina coades . so I guess its rum and cokes instead

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:39:11 -0000

Scott
definitaly Mercades .After Ac attacked her thats who she turned to only to find herself very alone
I wonder if there will ever be a book

I am sort of sorry about what happened to Mercades but it dosent change my view on what she did to her friend .curled up on the couch in her own place watching the torture of her friend whlie making sure the shelve wasn't seriously injured .It still sickens me so sympathy for me is hard to come by .I wish I could say differently , that I was the better man . I think Mercades should be in jail for what she did and for what she didn't do ,of couse it not right to attack anyone but sympathy is not an emotion that Mercades brings out in me . I am more shocked at Christina ,then any thing else .Was she trying to put her own kid in jail .

Is this the Karma that we were talking about the life sentence that will follow these girls . If this was not one of the six , It is not reported in the newspaer complete with the photo Of the "Ringleader " .There will be no room for error for the guilty ' Every infraction they will be involved in will be reported . Although this may stir some much needed sympathy for Mecades . She at least had no intention of betraying her mother . Her mother on the other hand seemed to turn on Mercades . I wonder where I have seen that act before

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:50:08 -0000

Gomp The 20% quickly goes to 30% .or whoever else disagreees . Althoufg this is what happens when common sese leaves the judicila system , Mr Jefferson is right to be fustrated . Just exterme in his response .,How Christina could call the police on he own daughter unless she was hurt bad to put your own daughter in such peril
mercades has three years probation that could kave bbeen revoked

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:23:04 -0000

Gomp
are you saying the early Christians and other undesirables didn.t have it coming. Or are you suggesting mayby look at the factors that cause such things to happen and find solutions that are meaningful and just . I Think we should ask Mr "street smart jefferson "how he would decide which 20% and how he would deal with them.
We all know there are issues and unfairness Mr Jefferson but what you are saying has been tried mant times with disatrous results

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:21:35 -0000

I can't believe it Christina called the cops on Mercades which could of meant serious jail time for breaking her probation agreement and a felony conviction that would stick and Christina was the agressor in this if the corrupt police of Polk County are to be believed .
This may also put and end to her lawsuit .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:17:53 -0000

there is a reason they are called Plea
"DEALS" I am sure the next victim of a beat down of such severity will rush forward to press charges knowing that the thugs will get grounded and god forbid write a letter of apology .
The shame and horror of these violent thugs who had to be home schooled)trying to remember the proper use of of a comma will indeed stop this from ocuring in the future .
Can you imagine being known as the one that used a run on sentence . This could follow these girls everwhere
As Mercades lookes up the meaning and spelling of betrayal we must remember that BH injured her hand punching the crap out of victoria so she at least is paying a just price . . this is serious punishment . Do you think it is easy for April to figure out how to insert giggle in a letter. this is real pain and anguish that the guilty have to face.
With BM does it gets even more murkey . the way she enjoyed herself I do not know if the letter should even be opened and certainly not read in front of children . So myself .i am very comfortable that the next bunch of thugs to be will see this as the deterent it is , I for one after watching those six in action doubted that any of them knew how to write .,

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:14:48 -0000

To Gomp ,AmmV and Scott
three excellent post.
Gomp you are right Kayla had the shortest road to travell .Bad parententing and legal council insured the road stayed long .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:29:30 -0000

Ok Gomp
.I would agree if as in your scenario it meant getting caught or getting away with it ,AC was caught and the sentence given .The oppurinity was there to do what Kayla did .Legally they my have had an excuse before ,not anymore . What would it have cost April with or without tears To say I am sorry Telsia for what I put you through . It would have benifited April more then Victoria

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:51:13 -0000

Gomp .
nearly a year and they don't know if they are sorry .
Sorry not buying it .the more you did the easier it should be ,
April had the same opprutunity as Kayla and more reason to take advantage of the oppurtunity to do so . April's reputaion would have benifited by the same action but mayby AC is not un happy with her reputation she has

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 15:16:48 -0000

Hi Scott
We here have never found your humor annoying your himour
however needs work (LOL),
As I have said before the way you can say so much with so few words has enriched this fourm greatly.

This case ito me is now just freakin insane ,.That no jail time served for thier actionn is senseless and if reports are true the only one that may serve time is pregnent . I have an easier time sending an unpregnent BH to jail for 4 years then a pregnent BH to jail for 5 months . The reason being what's the point , why risk the baby in a jail atmosphere for a token gesture of toughness by the SAO .Why not just continue her grounding for the being a bad girl . We can see how effectual this grounding was if the perps have time to plan a family (sarcasim).I looked at those pictures crying as she hugged Talesia and the one right after on more then one occassion to finally see the some humanity from the animals that were on the video . was soothing to the rage .and you know helps the healing process for victoria and her family . . It also helped all of us, society in general who were stunned ,outraged and bewieldered . knowning perhaps these young women may understand what they did . It also must have helped Kayla Hassals the most of all . To make such a genuine apology directly to the Victims family and the grace of the acceptense had to be more theroputic then the slap on the wrist given by the state. .
I do not know how many more post I will be doing .My role here defined even by me was to continually proof thier guit and to demand strong sentenes, .I find the aftermath of this case is like trying to find something good to say just because, there is nothing else to say

To Everyone ,especially Scott ,Gomp . Thank-you for allowing me the pleasure of sharing ideas and opinions . . You are two are made of the finest of stuff . To Electronics ,.You are a credit to your communnity and you should be proud of your role in this fourm and I hope the rest of the teenaged world has your "amoral " attiude . that would truley give me hope for the world that my son will have to live in . To My partner
and lead chair AmyV . This battle we lost but an honour to have had you on my side . I do not think there was one post of ours that differed . Thank -you for every thing we have shared .Since it has finally moved above freezing i think i will start up the Barbecue and recall those mamoths and snowballs . The best of luck to you all and healing to all those and thier families that were in the rm on March 30th

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 07:21:13 -0000

Gomp
considering the senteces that have been given , the types of post you have been giving has more meaning today then when the debate was on who should get what . Your last post recognizing Mercades cruelity is what I have been looking from you . I did not know if you truly had seen it and somehow it was impotant to me that you have .
Seeing Kayla and Victoria's Mother was rewarding to me and did soften the proscecutors heart . It would have been nice to see victoria there as well but we should all remember that just because Victoria's Mom wants to give out the hugs does not mean we should think less of Victoria if she does not . As hard as it must of been for her to watch the tape . Victoria felt each bretayal packed blow where the only respite was the worst verble abuse friends could give . If Victoria never looks back , never gives anyone of these girls the time of day ever . I would not think one bit less of her then right now . If sh does go the route of her step mom then i will think more of her then i do right now.

The wooly mamoths heady south speaking french was absolutly hilarious or as the french say c'etait TRES DROLE. I was sending them to Flordia each with a snowball for Scott and Amy . , Since Amy seems tired of my whining about the weather ,Hers has alot of extra ice in hers which I am sure she will know what to do with .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:00:16 -0000

Sorry for the religeous take guys , Its so cold here today that me and my friend were trying to come up with how many ways you can use ice .
its not just for making igloos you know
-23 today , as cold as AC heart ,so Amy and Scott a big snowball for you . Sarto did not mean to insult .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 17:27:31 -0000

Sarto
my father was taught by nuns .Thier actions were so cruel that to say they in any way represented a good and kind god is a travesty .Those that do evil while putting on the cloak of rightgesnous are the worst of humanity

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 04:40:31 -0000

Bonjour gomp
Quel vous avez dit est tres vrai ,mais
les filles de cathloique etaient tout bonnes filles .C'etait un grave erreur
d'avoir un condem.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:46:08 -0000

Well i personally hate sending a pregnent woman to jail of any sort .I hope she still gets some sort of house arrest Victoria ,BH ,Mercades,all getting pregant ,In my day we got married danced to chicago's Colour My World as your wedding song then got pregnentt . I mean that's 3 out of seven . is birth controll expensive in flordia or do these boys not know which end of the condom goes on first

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:16:41 -0000

Amy i like your point especially about the ring leader. it is hard to seperate fact from fantesy especially when it comes to the ringleader s .Regardless who is or who was the ringleader I would like to see what she put down on paper to see if the apology was sincere .whether it was BH or Mercades on someone else .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:52:02 -0000

When Kayla apologized on that audio tape I and may others thought it was so insinscere saying you are sorry for the victim instead of sorry for your actions .The letters that they have to write cannot be trusted to be sincere . A young teenage girl crying in the hall apologizing to the the victims mother ,not for the courts sake or the publics sake i find encouraging and hopeful .

I was planning a trip with a close friend to Quebec City to experience winterlude and even there i was being asked about the case , my friends know i follow the case and ask me about the sentences .I said the courts haven't taught them much
but mayby they still might learn a valuable life lesson . In my experience it can be amasing when the unexpected happens . It is nice to be pleasanty surprised .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:05:06 -0000

The other 2 accepted pleas today not much details .Both will be sentenced as juviniles . Kayla was seen in the hallway in tears apoligizing to victoria's Mom . It's a start

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:01:32 -0000

To Scott
polar bears may always be hungry but so are alligators . those thing just freak me out .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:53:30 -0000

Scott I wish you were right . Legally they just have to serve thier time /. For Mercades and Britini this means obeying the terms of the courts(probation) .We would all like to see some sort of reconcilliatin .To see Victoria Forgive the remaining 5 . We want to see the five sincerly ask to be forgiven .All that would be good ..
Victoria might not want anything to do with these people and her families(ever). The defendents did this to Victoria because of hate , what has changed there . They probally still hate her..If BH and Mercades stay out of trouble for 3 years why would they need counciling to understand what they did . They did it because they wanted to .Scott this is so obvious they wanted to and they enjoyed it . Thier parents should put them in councling..The law only reqires that they understand they can't do it again. .For us everything about this case has ended badly.
Besides the letters that will be given to Victoria .I hope each one makes a public display of remosre . Victoria may read the letters and call those that were her friends . We will not know this . The defendants or should we now say the Guilty may try to make ammends .We will not see this either . all of this will move away from the public view leaving us who have followed this it is the same as reading a tragic novel only to have found out at the end that the last 2 chapters are missing . So all we can do is guess at the ending

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:38:45 -0000

Funny the way Karma works ..When this started we were told that it was payment for the bad things wrote about the perps on Facebook or whatever the internet application . .Well now they have had more bad wrtten about them on the internet,then Judas , hitler and Charles Manson(I haven't really researched that last statement.)
Now we have to get beyond the anger part ,our discussions have been what would we say to these girls . should Society offer the proverbial olive Branch ...Myself I am worried , If these girls read this siite ,and lets face it why wouldn't they .they will see all the un nice things that I have said about them ..Name calling , sarcastic made up storys just to make a point .The constant beratement of both character and motive .If the few things that Victoria "MIGHT "of said upset these girls so much what about the 3 post a day blistering personel attacks that are now forever on this site. I know what you are thinking . That i am not the only one to say these things . Although this is true . I do not think the girls will try anything in Flordia right now
so Scott and AmyV I think can relax . Although Gomp saying he was at Vietnamm protest and therefore sounds like the sort of helpless 6 on 1 victim that would appeal to these girls .There is way to much talk of Martial arts for them to take a chance .Lets face it a quick trip up north to Canada where they are not well known .do a little site seeing and as friendly as we are all suposed to be ,its just asking Where is Phil from MCS. My Topix post shows I am from Ottawa .
With all this in mind I think we should all get together to wish these mis-understood people all the understanding that they need .
.I must ,like all of society hope that they have gotten over thier urge to beat people up for bad things said .That being said for those of you who have my email .Please check in from time to time just to make sure I am not receiveing suspcious Text Messages .Being well over 40 with a bad back would make me an easy prey .These girls are just scary,No i meant just Deary .Really all that other stuff I wrote , Gomp made me and he knows Martial Arts ..I will now go and live among the Innuet (Formely known as Eskimos) till it is safe to return to my family .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:26:59 -0000

Reading the last 4 post,
again Electronica has the mildest and perhaps most mature response about meeting any of these defendents , I am still pouting about the plea bargins and probally not ready to move from "proscecutor just yet.

Vven with Electronica's reasonable (Mature beyond her years )approach these girls may have to expain this everytime before a serious friendship can occur . Most of have the luxory of being able first to get to know and trust before we open up about the crucial events in our lives . This could pop up at parties or at each new job.Almost at all circumstances where new people are met ,this may occur. Will just this keep them in thier community where I am sure they can stay close to people who will not ask ..
Those that have teenagers whom they are responsible cannot just say lets be fair to these girls .So that could mean for the younger girls Kayla and April this means also convincing the parents as well before a new boyfriend or other friend can become meaningful. .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:11:22 -0000

Warning .
Do not let BH,Or AC near a DoJo or whatever it is properly called ,.Meditation.medication .anger management . bible studies .Every self help book available,love ins, sit ins. all great ideas If any of these girls learn how to hit properly before they learn to correct what ever the hell went wrong in thier heads then the next person could end up dead .
Victoria definitly . anyone that is the friends of the defendents most defintly could use martial arts training..
And gomp Please do not tell me that the person in charge would be qualified to know the difference .Martial arts is a weapon these defendents do not need weapons they need to learn compassion,/tolerance and basic human decency not how to deliver a better more effective punch.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 12:47:00 -0000

The main reason Dr Phil's ratings are down 27% is since Mr Obama got elected the world has become 27% smarter .
It is not if 5 months in prison is easy or hard,is it enough of a punishment for the crimes committed .
Although that was not your real question.
I have not been even able to answer my own question . .I cannot say that I don't want these (insert name calling)defendents not to get some sort of public backlash .I am not sure if I want them to be able to comfortably go through thier day as if this did not take place .If they have no remorse should I feel bad that someone wants to legaly make it known to them how they are perceived .
.Would I believe it if they said they were remorseful.I am trying to be a bigger person and take comfort in the fact that Victoria and her family believe this is enough . although where I live this could never happen but if my step daughter showed up at home with one of these girls in tow .' wouild she be welcome . .Would she at the very least have to explain herself before she would be welcome or would i just say Hello Britiny Mayes nice to meet you .Hey is that the new JVC video camera you have there . See you guys later have fun and drop in again soon. I doubt she would be welcome ..It is how much is too much and is any too much.When I can become the better person mayby I can give the better answer

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:41:50 -0000

To Gomp and GregS
I would have to agree with that to which I find agreeable unless of course to that which I am agreeing cannot be summed up in such phrasing .
In which case I would have to say that by disagreeing with the previous statement of agreeing that we can all be led to the unequivable but yet realistic truth of the events as it relate to todays scocial /semni political instituions adding in of course the judicial factors we can surmise that hitting is not good .mayby even bad.

Sorry guys just haveing a little bit of fun at your expense

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:37:22 -0000

Sarto
You use your words well to paint a very vivid picture of the lives these defendents may or will have .The question is, Is this what we want for these defendants. .That if the courts are not going to serve justice then society will .Is this not Universal Karma demanding payment to balance the ledger for the evil deeds done against Victoria . The Ultimate cold shoulder to follow these girls whereever they go .Will we see this as just due ,earned by thier actions ,and a fair result in lieu of time served..For how long should society treat them this way, until it is esier for them just to keep thier eyes lowered as not to see what we feel.

Yesterday Britini Hardcastle left the courtroom crying and the comments (including my own) were not nice.Most of us either questioned her sincerity or her motivation for the tears..If she had been stoic or relaxed it would have meant that she had no reorse for her actions . You are in a bad place when it doesn't matter what you do you will be wrong. BH was used by her friends to do thier dirty work and then betrayed and left alone as (Deservidly so )the most hated of the hated . She is the poster child not only of Bullying but the poster child of female youth violence. Even Mercades Betrayal or BM's sick enjoyment or Aprils blistering suprise attacks pale to the brutaliyt inflicted by BH ,but enjoyed and encouraged by all in the room.

Before you think I am asking for sympathy ,at this very moment I cannot get the image of BH striding after Victoria with her fist clenched ignoring Victoria's heart felt plea's to just let her go.Once again I feel my anger at her rising.

I read a post from a mother shortly after the assult took place that said
"Hell has reserved a special place for the fat B**ch in the pink sweatpants. If what Sarto has said is true . This mother may be correct.Is this what we want.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:31:40 -0000

Scott you are just now being silly
The latest has Victoria pleading guity to first degree battery for damaging BM's knuckels . The tape was used to prove when Victoria got off the couch it caused BM 'arm to change angels and therefore caused Victrioa to hurt BM 's knuckles. But to suggest jail time is just you being bitter . I hear at least 2 years of probation for Victoria ,She must write all present in the room a letter of apology.(The site of blood on the kuckels caused alot of distress for the other 5).
Also she must refrain in calling any of the 5 low life scum who got away with assult.)
OK that last one is was mine .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 06:33:02 -0000

Here are some ways Mercades can serve her 100 hours of Community Service

1) Shelf Protection sevices . This ia a good one because no resume is required just see attached Video ..Nothing says I care more then being concered for ones possesions .
2)Do a reality show lookng For new BFF .after all she did loose her last one.
Contestents should practise the bob and weave because you know how you get voted off her BFF list . Please make sure as well that the contestants medicall insurance is up to date as not to impose on the finacial well being of the contestants family.

Sidenote her other friends could help out given thier experiences with the lighting of the house and best places for filming.

3)Set up a group home to help young teenage girls' who for whatever reason cannot stay at home , to have a risk free place to stay . Again can draw on previous experience .,safe guided tours and timley warrnings will once again ensure the safty of those who are in need .
Also the free attitude adjustment for every week stayed will ensure the mental well being of those lucky enough to qualify .
I feel that the above charitable work will help make those 100 hrs of service just fly by .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 05:52:10 -0000

AmyV and Scott .I think some lessons were learned We know that Cara learned that it wan't to bad until you watch it later and you have to be careful with what you want to post on the internet . So you know that they have learned either not to tape the next beat down or to do a better job of hiding the tape .They must of learned to be more careful with thier texting . for The next deseved reciepiant of a beatdown ,codes will have to be used to make sure that if law enfocement are given info by someone 's Nana it cannot be traced back to the peoplee involved . Also they must either beat the person more or come up with a better deterent not to have the person call the authoritys . They obvisiously have to work on thier after the assult threats this was largly innafectual last time. 'They also have to make sure that thier lies and excuses match -up better . This sloppines made it much harder to pinn the assult on the victim and did forces them to do the unthinkable and blame each other . This to me was so sad seeing friends turn on friends. i feel if they learn from thier mistakes and take to heart the states position that it was really not that serious they can get on to thier good work of adjusting the attitudes of all of thier other friends that may need it . .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:54:09 -0000

M Hutchence
I do not feel very sane right now.but I think as we see each of these plea deals 'We now know what April found so funny when the judge was impressing on her the seiousness of the charges no wonder she had a hard time keeping a sraight face ..They all should of extended thier wrist for the slap and all went and stood in a corner for thier time out . Now they are aloud to come out into socoity, after March 4th .They will be free to shop ,go to the beach attend paties . Hang out with each other . To work on those letters to be sure . When any of you saw that tape did any of you envision a scenario where one person may get up to six months . .If BH gets 6 months BM is getting less or none . annd the rest after being gounded for a few months and cerfew for 7 months.. About the same punishment my parents gave me for getting caught drunk at school when I was 15 .

Could you imagine that no jail time would be served for the one who said ,17 seconds left ,make it good .,Mercades .Who let this happen .Invited the people over . Allowed it to be taped .Told BH to continue the beating . And only showed concern for the contents of the shelf also will not go to jail for her betrayal . How is this fair , How does this make sense..

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:37:01 -0000

Of course justice was done, When Mercades writes her forced sincere letter of apology we can only hope that Mercades remembers that the pen is not a weapon and for the next 3 years not to use said pen for anything but wrighting .As not to tempt her too much she should avoid slumber parties and those other events that would have anymore then, 2 " friends " over at the same time. If all of this fails she should learn the way to the closest Clinics so the next time she has one of her little "beat up a friend party" she can drive her new beat up best friend staight to the clinic instead of CVS thus avoiding thoes peskey tampering with a witness charges . Those are always the ones that get ya. .I am sure all of her friends are ready to trust her so probation is probally unnnessacary but you all know those corrupt legal officials they just can't help but to pile it on the innocent .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:59:13 -0000

testing

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:58 -0000

Okay every one Back away from your keyboades lets all take About 6 hours
and reflect on how we want to be represented .Let us promise,not to each other, but to ourselves not to bring up anybody's family that does not belong to the case regardless what side of the fence you are on these comments are only designrd to hurt .. If any of you knew my parents you could all have a field day with me when ever I posted .You don't have to like the person s idea that you are commenting .Or for that matter why we are here in the first place .truth be told we could always be doing something better . that is unless all the starving have been fed the enviroment is back on track ,Rasecism has been eliminated and there is no Super bowl to watch . We all have our reasons and opinions .Now i had a new take i wanted to share with you guys but anger always clouds judgement. Bruised feelings interfers with undesrstanding . I will take my six hours and go do something useful hope to see you all back here then .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 07:33:24 -0000

The Official Canadian Temperature Conversion Chart

50° Fahrenheit (10° C)
Flordians shiver uncontrollably.
Canadians plant gardens.

35° Fahrenheit (1.6° C)
Italian Cars won't start
Canadians drive with the windows down

32° Fahrenheit (0 ° C)
American water(with Bourbon) freezes
Canadian water(with Rye) gets tastier.

0° Fahrenheit (-17.9° C)
New York City landlords finally turn on the heat.
Canadians have the last cookout of the season.

-60° Fahrenheit (-51° C)
Mt. St. Helens freezes.
Canadian Girl Guides sell cookies door-to-door.

-100° Fahrenheit (-73° C)
Santa Claus abandons the North Pole.
Canadians pull down their ear flaps.

-173° Fahrenheit (-114° C)
Ethyl alcohol Freezes.
Canadians get frustrated when they can't thaw the keg

-460° Fahrenheit (-273° C)
Absolute zero; all atomic motion stops.
Canadians start saying "cold, eh?"

-500° Fahrenheit (-295° C)
Hell freezes over.
The Toronto Maple Leafs WIN the Stanley Cup

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 07:27:21 -0000

My opinion on the kidnapping charges is that it happened as victoria has stated 100% .Victoria's testimony is just to vidid in its details ,repeating exact conversations. but her account also fits in with the way the interaction was going on between her Mercades and BH .Again for her just out of the blue to ask for a ride . Scott i seem to be going after you today but do you really see Victoria wanting to get in a car and still be in thier contoll after stating that she was in fear of her life .
The problem with the kidnapping charges to me is as follows , It is by far the most serious of the charges .so unless your intent was to put these 3 in jail for a long time it is a bargining tool and nothing more . Life in prison was never the intent of the state in this case .Kiddnapping and slaps on the wrist do not go hand in hand . The other real problem with the kuidnapping charge is it is the only charge levied against the defendants that is not in some way or any way supported by the recorded tape or any of the texted messages . The 3 defendante would surely have said it didn't happen and it would have been Victoria's word against the other 3 . Even by victoria's statement it is not clear who was in the room with BH and Victoria when they were packing up Victoria's stuff and BH told Victoia "no you are coming with me" .They would have seen
BH leading Victoria by the arm and a jury still might have chosen Victoiria's word .But with the seriousness of the sentence for kidnapping this was always going to be a bargining tool ...

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:53:23 -0000

Scott;
Very true as we have all said enough blame to go around what really strikes me with our exchanges between you Gomp 'AmyV and myself is that we can each pick our theory and have the evidence to support it .This just shows the mistake made by not giving them all somethin more than a punitive slap on the wrist,instead of working out sweet pleas.
Scott You keep on saying that Mercades should not be facing the same chaarges as BH. All three girls BM ;BH and Mecades were always faceing the same charges . They should not be facing the same punishments . What charge that Mercades is facing that BH is facing should not apply to Mercades . Again i am not talking about sentecing just about the charges ..Also Scott not to pick on you but you have said to Amy
that you do not blame Judd 'but to Christina you said
I think the sheriff’s office better do some internal cleaning and fast. What if the state of Florida decides to investigate Judd’s office?
can you please clarify both my questions .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:05:14 -0000

Gomp
i am glad the snow melted .it is minus 27.7 degrees farinheigt with the wind chill today. I accept your version about the one or two persons taking the fall because BH was going to get the worst thats for sure no problem no argument from anyone . punishing Mercades more then BM is an easy sell for the public because of of the public opinion of Mercades has not been good since the beginning . Proscecutors like any one else will take the easiest route given to them .I will say though .They still must have evidence for these charges they just can't say you are just as bad because .Here is how we know if there is the proof ,If Mercades takes a plea deal that may have a felony attachment then they must have proof of her guilt .If not her lawyer woulld not or could not take the deal.
Scott
You are right we must certainly never forget about Britnney Hardcastles .What ever the plan and whoever texted who or whoever threatned who .it became her show .Such brutality can should never be forgotton and you are so correct to make sure we keep that fact squarley in front of us at all times.But Scott we can still have the discussion on why BH was so upset at Victoria .Who was winding BH up .She had no real reason to take it out on victoria .The enforser is very rarley the one to put things in motion

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:55:59 -0000

From Phil

Just to toot my own horn here When we started seriously talking about ringleaders in early December I put forward a theory that i took some flack for ,Normal when we put our opinions in wrighting .I said this on Dec 4th and not to many people if any agreed with me

I find the question on who we think the ringleader or ringleaders were interesting .Every one has an opinion .the reason i find this interesting is , First you have to believe that alot of the events were pre determined . if you believe the defendants statements that nothing was planned then there was no ringleaders and what was done is on tape . here are my views on both scenarios . I think the ringleaders were Brit M and Mercades .

Lots more was said but that was the jist of the post

It seems all the discusions are now centered on this theory .On topix they are now saying things like
Group A verus Group B , which one was more responsible Mercades with the texting or BM with her prior threat against Victoria . I also do feel a liitle bit Vindicated as well with SAO stance about Mercades responsibility .
..Did Mercades Lawyer miscalulate by not spreading the blame to both BH and BH thus taaking it furter away from mercades
. Changing attornies part way through could not of helped . I also think that if you did not activly pursue a deal you got stuck with whatever was left. ..
The only rebuttals have been corruptin against Mercades ,nobody else .is being treated unfairly or unjustly targeted just this one person is undesreved of the offered plea deal.

Judd is probally not embarrsed but disgusted .He handed the proscecutin a case that AmyV and or I could have won
(Okay that's a bit much I know). But remember that Judd has to work with these people every day ,on cases with much more at stake then just this case . When he talked you critized him when he didn't you critiized him . Now if i am hearing you guys right he is responsible for the lenient plea deals being offered .or is it the overly harsh plea deal being offered Mercades .See i am confued again .Mayby Amyv is correct and the postman was corrupt to .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 10:54:27 -0000

test

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:44:04 -0000

AmyV great post .
.I have not heard a word from Sheriff judd in about six months .There have been people (Gomp and Scott )who wandered where he went if he cared so much about tackleing teen bullying or was it just one big phot op .Now its lt is look at the corruption of Polk County ..Corruption is such an ugly word .A sherrif trying to make a name for himself at the expense of the defendents is not corrupt .Showboating yes corrupt know ..Realeasing the video and putting this trial in adult court instead of Juvinile court some would see this as excessive , this is not corrupt .It seems to me The SOA and Judge Sarto seem to believe this should have been handled in the Juvinile system and not adult court . Even if there are some felony convictions that may get attached it is all being done with in a juvinlie punishment system .
These punishments seem to be in line with what
Greta Van Susteren and others who have said this is a juvi matter have called for .

Electronica . You have called this truer then the rest of us as to what they would recieve .
The only saving grace for me is it looks like the state does have the evidence for a pre planned event . That being said The state of flordia seems to agree with your assement of the case in general . Well done

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:31:13 -0000

Coruption theorys abound .Can some one please tell me what has been corrupted ,. Was an innocent person charged and convicted ? .Was somebody paid off to plant eveidence ? Is the SOA flexing thier mussels and throwing the book at someone for something they did not do ..Are they making up evidence to ruin the lives of the defendants .For those of you who have made this claim . There is that litte thing called the Vidoe tape evidense .Look at the reported deals these people are expecting .Every other juvinlie Felon in the state of flordia has probally phoned thier Lawyer wondering why they could not get tried in Polk County ,They should be so upset at thier lawyers for not knowing where the corrupt police , corrupt procecuting attornies and corrupt judges hang out...If I was a youth facing felony charges .I wold really want this bunch of corrupted individuals Trying me . Myself i was looking for an HONEST attempt at proscecuting these people for the charges brought against them .But those corrupted individuals have really thorwn a monkey wrench itnto that whole victim deserves justice theory.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:26:41 -0000

Amy
real interesting piece of logic makes alot of sense .regardless of there reasoning ,BM should have gotten more .I think that because of all the text and that it happened at Mercades place they want more from Mercades then they do from BM. .Gomp once stated to me awhile back that when i pointed out that extra legal responsibilities especially forcible confinement belongs to Mercades because it took place at her house and she did nothing to stop it , that he hoped this was not what would end up sinking her ..I think the public and Mercades deserve a better explanation on why the state feels that Mercades is on the same level as BH .I have been harder on Mercades than perhaps anyone and to put her in the class as BH makes no sense to me . I would like to hear thier reasoning with specfic exaamples of evidence .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:05:36 -0000

SAO put together plea deals Christina not Judges

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:57:47 -0000

If The defendents knew it was going to blowout this big then they would have never started the assult in the first place either .It was thier actions that landed them in this mess . It was horrible and viscious and sicking what they did .This was out of Victoria's hands as soon as she rightfully called the police ..These defendants are so fortunate that Victoria and her family are not out for blood .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:45:58 -0000

Scott you may be right
i live in Canada so i have no idea about corruption in Polk County.The problem i am having with this is corrution allegatins are being issued and i don't no what it means ,was somebody bribed . does the police own the courts is This Judd guy telling SAO what to do .Does SAO have another reason to ruin a seventeen year olds life that has nothing to do with evidence .Lets look at Judd.If he controlled SOA then all 6 girls and 2 boys would still be up on charges with no plea deals all looking at about 5 + years in jail .He made it very clear that he thought these defendants were animals and should be put away .It looks to me that SOA has done everything it can to put as much distance between themselves and Judd..Did the early statments from Judd hurt the chance to proscecute these girls probally .Now if
SAO is corrupt which way ,.if they wanted blood they have a funny way of showing it .So why BM over Mercades as far sentencing toughness goes .Is it pay back against Christina for the lawsuit and the constant attacks against Maybury justice .possible .but until we see the actual plea deal its hard to say ,Or if Christina was offered ,a reduced sentence for Mercdes in exchange for dropping her lawsuit ,then definatly...Or is it more likly that the SAO after looking at the case is saying that BH has to pay and the one who set it up has to pay as well .I do not think there will be alot of jail time to anyone of these defendants so it will probally be about the terms of sentencing and restitution. .TThe SAO was very clear on its resons why Mercades is is not getting the same deal. Her actions have put her thier according to States Attornies.To say corruption without giving what act of corruption from which individual insults people who are dedicated to work for the common good .i just wish they had all done thier job better with the serving the common good part .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:39:23 -0000

Garland
as far as I know only 2 parts have ever been released .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:07:06 -0000

Scott same charges does not equal same sentences .BH ,Bm and Mercades all faced the same charges going in..All of this drama for such lienenant sentences is mind boggling..
The state must have alot of evedence that points to Mercades as the planner but like all cases if the state is unreasonable the defendant can prove her innocennse at trial .
.Would it be fair if BH took a deal and then Mercades got more of a sentence by going to trial. When I see the word fair To me it depends on the view .For Mercades and Cristina this is totally unfair .I have said that I woulg have given BM more than Mercades .I thought after BH she was invoved in all aspects of this ,Assult ,filming,and the kiddnapping..April is 14 being encouraged and egged on by 17 year olds .Mercades .to me was third in my list of who should recieve the most punishment . As far as not hitting her when you tell some one in your own house to continue beating some one Scott you do not have to beat her yourself , Does that make you less guilty ..I think Victoria would have rather Kayla hit her a few more times then when Mercades told BH to continue which after BH reciieves permission from the one who lived there told Victoria now she was going to try to break her nose .So Scott with all due respect , The Battery charges are just and supported by the evidence .What is not fair ,Mostly to Victoria and then to Mercades is the light sentence give to BM

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:14:12 -0000

Scott
Here is my opinion on all of this .I cannot feel sorry for Mercades that she did not get a sweet deal like BM or one like AC may get . I am mad that the other 2 did not or will not get more .I would be very pissed if i was Christina or Mercades . it is another kick in the teeth after the high bail she has been given . I will not judge hers or BH sentecses based on what others got but on wether the sentences recieved are deserved for the actions of the defendents ..I have said all along about actions and guilt of Mercades . I was told that if i had all the information i would see differently . Well the SAO does have all the information .They have seen the whole video they have seen the texted messages , they have intervieed all the players and it seems they have also made thier statement in regards to Mercades actions and guilt . They seem to mirror what i have been saying . So to feel sorry that any of these girls may get something more than the light a light slap no way . To be mad that the others did not get more definatly

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:08:01 -0000

To Scott and AmyV
Obviously you guys don't know fear when you see it . i know the few times i have been truley afraid i too have yelled at some one to beat up a helpless friend .It helps not only to controll your fear but it enables the person you are afraid of to concetrate on the task at hand .I do not why you guys cannot see what is so obvious on the tape .because unless I am missing your point you don't really believe that Kayla was afraid ,and i think these types of tounge and cheek sarcasim takes away of the true fear shown on the tape by kayla .So mayby we should all watch the tape again and this time stop concentrating on that other person doing all that crying and begging and start looking at the other victims that Bh terified . i mean really if you guys are going to continue commenting here some objectivity would be apreciated

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:21:48 -0000

Was there any Video of yesterdays hearings . If yes where

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:18:26 -0000

To Christina
I never said any of them were in it for the money Christina , or that Mercades has not learned anything . You may feel free to imply all you want as I said this is the place for opinions ,Which are like 2 legs everybodys got them . These terms have been attached to BM and it is right to assume that all the rest will not be able to be paid for interviews . Why are you always acting surprised at my opinions .I have been very clear to the point of ridiculously repeating myself that i do not believe anyone at any time besides Victoria should see one red cent of money for talking about this case . When have i not been clear on this and my views about Mercades.
I would look at it as a real sign of true repentence and change if I turned on Operah or any other show and saw any of the defendants on the show because I would know because of the judges rulings , its not about the money but because they have something important to say ,Even if it is to correct misconceptions or to say we got it all wrong .As to when i believe Victoria's statement that is harder to answer but it is usually when she repeats clear quotatios and describes events in sequense . When she uses the words they it is harder to know the extent of her words ,. Both with the kidnapping and the qoutation on " Keep hitting her " by Mercades . The detail is very clear and percise .There is no ambiguity in what she is saying.. But why Christina would you think i should not believve the written statement of Victoria . I am basing my opinins on the evidence and not just what people feel about things .We keep on haveing this same conversation .If you have been told different things by your daughter or have seen different evidense that i am not privey to then you believe that .If i have presented something that is not supoorted by the evidence or it is wrong please let me know where .But I will ask you for your evidence to back it up the same way as anyone else and will ask you the same qustions you are asking of me.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:56:58 -0000

They will able to appear on these t.v.shows if they want to do good or get thier side of the thier sorry storey out, give interviews and write books . or do rallys ,speak to children and the youth in schools .Without money attached the do-gooders quickly fall to the wayside .because its never about the money is it.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:27:24 -0000

Garland
Agree with everything you say .It is amazing that it took 9 months to put together a slap on the wrist plea deal together . .the only thing I can think of is that thier would have been outrage 5 to 8 months ago now everybody has moved on. .
Why do people always have to get paid to get thier message accross .
does this mean that all of you who have read my comments now owe me money .( Canadian funds Only)
And Gomp put away that peanut. (lol)

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:02:00 -0000

Scott
I have made those claims from the very beginnig in regards to Mercades .How do you get all those people with a camera in one house
I am going to cut and paste an earier post of mine it light of the new developments thay seem even more pertinent .I was resonding to gomp

I am going to type in part of Victoria’s statement Gomp in regard to Mercades andto assult and battery pg 10 of Victoria’s statement at he ledger

He said the cops are coming .Someones coming its getting loud . MERCADES SAiD YOU DON’T HAVE TO STOP BEATING HER JUST QUIET IT DOWN PLEASE.
At this point BH knuckles are bleeding and she tells me you think your lips are busted wait t’ill I bust your nose.I guess her goal was to break my nose .So her kuckles are all busted upand they do it for a couple moe minutes and finaly Mercades IS LIKE ENOUGH WE HAVE TO GO TO GET MY NANA THE NEIGHBOURS ARE COMING .

Gomp I capitized to highlight not to yell.But this directly shows her involvement in the beating was not just a spectator she told someone in her house to continue beating another person .Your egg analogy, if you told your friends to keep on throwing or doing mischief you certainly can’t claim that i don’t controll the actions of others .
.Also it shows that Mercades is in controll she tells BH to contiue .BH continues .She tell BH to stop BH stops .No argruments .no few more shhots just because .BH doesen’t turn around and tell Mercades to mind her own buisness .. None of the other girls argue the point . This is the evedence ,Its not like I am the type of person who says well some one’s resposible lets make it her .
These statements take place in the defendants home you add the text messaging involvement and her inviting all the people that had a known grudge .I am sorry Gomp but it is way more than guilty by assoiciation.

The reasons i did not post at Topix .,is they show where you are posting from since I am from Canada i saw to many people from other countries told to mind thier own buisnees ,what right do you have critsizing our systems when yours are no better, and stuff like that . i did not want a USA vrs Canada debate , i am now i hope established enough here where that won't be an issue and I can give my opinions freely .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:22:26 -0000

Scott .
I just put a peanut on your last post at Topix.not that i disagree but anybody can just select "judge it "and put in the symmbol wanted.
I don't post there because Acording to me i am brilliant so those peanuts would really hurt my ego(Lol) .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:53:18 -0000

Hi Gomp
Good speculatin but no evidence . the text messenging seems to orginate with Mercades and BH. There is no way to proove your points as they are Pyscological speculatin on what could influence someone . when i brought up earlier the point about BM being the one to push BH's buttons Scott repied back that BH was already rearing to go "If Victoria doesn't change her atitutude BH is going to beat her up and i am not going to stop it " occured before April aand BM arrived . your points almost add to my points . There must be evidence to support one of these theorys . The text messages probally confirm this .I am not saying that one or the other BM or April would not lie to implicate Mercades and Bh..All of these people through thier lawyers are in survival mode .Each looking out for thier own interest. .When it all said and done .I believe all of the defendants will have gotten off easier than thier actions warented .
I am truly disgusted with the sentece given to BM. and i will probally will be with the rest of them

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:31:12 -0000

Hi Christina .
I made it pretty clear that I was guessing .Its pretty hard not to want to comment on all the goings on .I would also ask you to have the same patience . all of us have Ideas and opinions to not only what took place ,but just as important why it took place .We do look forward to what info you can share .Sounds like you are doing a bit better today . Hope thats the case

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:30:29 -0000

To Gomp
In plea deals having the guilty person wright a letter of apology is common pratice .Think of it this way .The same way Victoria was humiliated for apoagizing ,the defendants now must all take thier turn to do the same .Ordered by law to put it in wrighting.A small victory for Victoria to be sure but it is a victoy .Eye for an eye .These letters should be trophies for Victoria .Ooh Baby ohh Yeah Britniay Mayes will have this tape follow her .Her absoultly disgusting sounds will do her more damage then April's Hitting in the public's mind .

why would the State be tying this to Mercades and not offering her the same sweet deal that BM recievrd . She did not hit Victoria .This is a fact that no-one disputes
Most people do things for a logical reason (to them )even at first if it is not apparently logical to anyone else .Example Mercades don't hit the shelf" Less disgust (by some ) attched to this when we find out about the ashes on the shelf.
Conjecture on my part but I think during the course of the investigation or when working out the plea deals ..BM and April were asked how did you end up at Mercades place .I am now pretty sure that the response was .BH and Mercades told us to get our buts over here because we are goint to get Victoiria . .We all said we knew it was planned .BM and April could not have been in on the planning . that could have only acted on the invite .Mercades would have known of the evnts at the bonfire ..If there was not the strong evidence to support this the penalities are to severe for malicious proscecution.I am not saying this does not ever happen . You may risk this with peolpe you really want to get ,Mobsters rapist and such but the state could have easily throw every one of these girls including Cara under the bus .Without mercades this assult does not take place .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:49:14 -0000

Electronica
Excellent post .i now believe Mercades is afraid of Bh .Can you imagine her having to sit with her at trial. Irony is so Ironic .I really think BH is ready to admit to that Mercades hepled paln this in order to get her pleas deal .But who knows .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:07:17 -0000

If Mercades an BritH were a team
so were Bm and April . Truley a slap on the wrist for confining ,attacking,and filming the beating . You hate to wish someone more harm but when the system
fails to do its job it brings all the crazies out .These girls better be careful. I do not think they will find a forgiving society waiting to embrace them when this is over .Another year in prison would have probally saved Bm lots of grief or at least some meaningful probation to apease a cynical and fustratred public,

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:41:30 -0000

Scott says "The judge should also hit Mayes with probation, community service and perhaps counseling as well."
How can he give extra Scott . she pleaded guilty to a charge that carries a maximum one year sentence . I do not think that you can add to that . I hope i am wrong but i do not think so ,
An absolute miscarage of justice

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:46:07 -0000

The SAO must have the evidence that Mercades was involved in the planning .I would not doubt that this came from BH herself in working out the plea deal .Alss Scott the fact that it took place at her place does carry extra legal resonsibility .Also breaking her agreement with regards to the other charges probally is not helping . It also may not be that bad of a plea offer just that they do not want Mercades going to trial where she could potentialy get more than BH . It did say that Mercades was offered a deal.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:33:14 -0000

A disgusting slap on the wrist .no long probation
no admintence of guilt .an absolute Freaking Joke ..

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:48:55 -0000

Scott you are so right about what you said about why all this time for a slap on the wrist plea ,that could of been given months ago.The only thing I can inmangine is that the defendants could not escape a felony charge on thier record if they reoffend .Everything is speculation at this point but like you I am not hopeful ..I still get very angry at these girls if I think about the visusl of the tape instead of the facts and I want them all in jail , with pictures of Victoria's bruised face adorning the wall so each morning they know why they are there . With those sentiments its not hard to assume that I will be disapointed .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:44:07 -0000

Same here Scott It is still a mystery why the judge has not taken contoll of this .If there is no plea deals he should set a trial date . .He or she does undrstand they have a tape of the crime .Right!.
I can understand you wanting a week off ,you have been at this alot longer then the rest of us ,. and sometimes we just keep going around in circles. Let's hope by this time tommorow that we have something new to talk about.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:41:40 -0000

Welcome back Scott
We will see what transpires but as I said in my above comments it will not be justice .
not for Victoria and not for society .

in my above post
I obviously meant March 30 not may 30

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:23:11 -0000

Good morning everybody
It wll be interesting to see what happens today .I am not talking about Washington.If no plea deals are announced then of couse there will be disapointment and some anger from those of us that are still left.I kind of feel like we are watching a good cop bad cop routine . We were all pretty much outraged by the 6 months house rest scenario that now with more time gone by we would except almost anything stronger and count it as justice served . For us hardliners . which at one time meant throwing these girls into the deepest pits of hell to suffer years of untold torment now means anything over 2 years jail time seved in juvi. .Even with this we will be disapointed .
Any deal today for me will be a victory for the defence .This is a valuable lesson on why they dragged thier heals on this . The deal if annouced today would never have been accepted 5 months ago ..The outrage has died down . .The will to make a serious statement on a real problem is gone . The need of the victim to move on has replaced the need for justice to be served .
Society has been the looser in this since the tape hit the airwaves . We saw up close and personel the dehuaminazation of a young women by 6 other young womane before our eyes . ..The Victim and the defendants all lost whatever innocense youth provided ,spiraling them and thier families into a public nightmare . We as a society also have had our innocense (or naivity )taken away as well and can never again look at young female teenagers in the same way .They have truley reached the equality of thier male counterparts
..We as adults can now be truly afraid of the next generation .This is a stark and real change of being afraid for a generation. .When the plea deal is annouced ask yourself will this do anything to curb prevaliant bulling attached to a new and dangerous technoligy. The public noriety attached no longer brings shames but acceptance in this generation..My belief is that these plea deals leave our chlidren and socity at the mercey of of a generation without a moral compass ..If ever I have been mistaken .I hope it is now .I have too much at stake as do all of us with Children under 17. May God bless Victoria and send her comfort today and any other time that the events of May 30th intrude on her life . May God bless the defendants and thier families that they can shows us better of themselves that what we have seen .And from this Canadian on your very special day, God Bless America
Peace to you all

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:28:42 -0000

I hope the judge says enough is enough .I know this must be hard on the defendants but as my concern has mostly been for the victim(Victoria),she has waited long enough for justice to be served .The defense has had nearly 9 months to get thier affairs in order , Even with the seriousness of the charges faceing the defendants its time for them to face the consequences of thier actions .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 03:16:25 -0000

Any one have any ideas what will happen on the 20th .
Christina does Mercades or the other girls have to appear or is it just the Lawyers again.
Does anyone think that any pleas will be announced ,I am personally suprised that they haven't been able to settle with Kayla .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:20:18 -0000

To Garland
I have read alot of your post here and on Topix. Most people in my opinion believe there will be a plea deal .if there is a trial then you will see all the people coming out of the wood work. The other thing for me is it is hard to keep reminding people of the same thing which is the guilt of those involved . I just see it being whittled away as time goes on .But if there is evidence then that should be looked at

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 09:12:49 -0000

Hi Christina
theledger.com select the Crime and justice section on the left side of the page
under local news
select Video Tape Beating
Select Victoria's Lindsay statement
this will be found on Pg 10
Cristina pleas read pg 11 and 12 .
This deals with the drive to CVS This is again the Victims signed statement not what was said by the sherrif .
Please post to what you read if you can.
It may help you understand why i have my views .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:29:59 -0000

Gomp
just sent you another E-mail let me know if you got it

To Trench and every one else sorry for using this site as a message board .

The more people who comment here and who sign the petition are helping tackle a very serious issues if you have a child or a niece ,or nephew . How do you want them live . in fear and torment of course not . it is not just adults who abuse our youth .Please add your voice .enough small ripples make a wave and change can happen .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:20:02 -0000

Gomp no i did not I did not
I will re e-mail you with my another e-mail
my power went oput so that might have been the problem

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:03:50 -0000

AmyV
once again posting at near the same time .I always get nervous when someone speaks for me in thier post I have done it sparingly myself with you and so far i do not think I have mis represented you .
Your last post was so bang on accurate as to what I think ,I had to check the name to be sure you did not cut and paste.I am not worried at all with the way you included my name now or in the future .As you would say to me .
Agree,Agree,Agree

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 06:48:50 -0000

AmyV
Scott lives in Fordia I believe .
it is was minus 37 with the wind chill last night and the power went out so no heat .lots of blankets ,a log on the fire just made it freaking freezing . power and furnace came on at 6:oo am:(
So please tell me again how cold is it where you are , but please be gentil because if i start laughing before i really thaw out then it could be dangerous .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 04:11:14 -0000

Gomp
Thanks for you response .
I am going to type in part of Victoria's statement Gomp in regard to Mercades andto assult and battery pg 10 of Victoria's statement at he ledger

He said the cops are coming .Someones coming its getting loud . MERCADES SAiD YOU DON'T HAVE TO STOP BEATING HER JUST QUIET IT DOWN PLEASE.
At this point BH knuckles are bleeding and she tells me you think your lips are busted wait t'ill I bust your nose.I guess her goal was to break my nose .So her kuckles are all busted upand they do it for a couple moe minutes and finaly Mercades IS LIKE ENOUGH WE HAVE TO GO TO GET MY NANA THE NEIGHBOURS ARE COMING .

Gomp I capitized to highlight not to yell.But this directly shows her involvement in the beating was not just a spectator she told someone in her house to continue beating another person .Your egg analogy, if you told your friends to keep on throwing or doing mischief you certainly can't claim that i don't controll the actions of others .
.Also it shows that Mercades is in controll she tells BH to contiue .BH continues .She tell BH to stop BH stops .No argruments .no few more shhots just because .BH doesen't turn around and tell Mercades to mind her own buisness .. None of the other girls argue the point . This is the evedence ,Its not like I am the type of person who says well some one's resposible lets make it her .
These statements take place in the defendants home you add the text messaging involvement and her inviting all the people that had a known grudge .I am sorry Gomp but it is way more than guilty by assoiciation.
Gomp i am not asking you to play Lawyer just as when you make your points you are not asking me to be Therapist.But in both roles we must treat the person for what they really did not for what we wished they did .

PS. did you get my email

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:56:34 -0000

AmyV
HELP (lol)

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:55:23 -0000

Gomp.
you are not the only one who has made these claims but we can dance this circle again i do not mind but then we we will be just going over more Mercades stuff .the last time we went through this argument you finally had to agree that this was planned . this does not mean again that you are going to agree that Mercades is the number 1 person responsible but at least bring up senarios that are consistent with what you say you believe . I am not trying to be insulting but some times you go in one direction then the other .,To me when you start at anyones resonsibility in this case you have to start with were the events planned "If you don't change your attitude BH is going to beat you up and i am not going to stop it .'What part of that is ambigious what part of this did not happen . She invites BM and April over who are on record saying they are going to do the same thing ,How then can youclaim not to know . . .But most of all ask Christina what is Mercades to be blamed for ,Not for haveing anything to do with the planning of this not for encoraging others to do what was done .not for the kidnapping that took place afterwords . So Gomp what do you feel she did wrong because it sounds like you do not think it was much more then being a bad friend . I have been very specific to the point in why i feel this way but Gomp i am asking for punishments based on specific actions .If you are saying she should be punished for something than what laws did she break .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:51:29 -0000

To Christina ;
I know when you and AmyV comment you both have to be careful
Some harsh words have been exchanged and some times it dosen't take much to get things going.I am very passionate and stubborn in my biliefs ,If you feel the fire as you put it while walking the tightwire . No prob letting it out on your comments . You don.t have to play by different rules then the rest .
Christina i really mean this . Gomp is right in this we all take diiferent roles . I am the proscecutor .I want these girls , all of them to spend time in jail for what they have done .Your role is the mother of the defendants .We will be butting heads as this goes on .
That's okay too

Gomp You were not at the room that was trashed . Your responsibility and culpibility increases ten fold if you had been in this rm even if you did not take part in the trashing of the room the same as Mercades .,. The other example . if there was text messages exchanged from your cell talking about throwing eggs . You invite more people over who you know are likly to throw eggs at the same house because these people have said that we don't like that person and they deserved to egged . you know this and still invite them over ,. because thay have told you about if they get the chance they will be throwing eggs . They come over and sure enough .And that person whos house just got egged is good friend of yours as well you see where i am going with this . You can certainly say I am not in controll what others did and as you can see I did not throw any eggs . Can you honestly tell me in both of my examples that you are not responsible for rooms being trashed and eggs being thrown ,Can you tell me you would not be asked why all these egg throwing people were invited over in the first place .

On a funny note when i used to read these types of post before i joined I thought that some of the fine folkes
who post here might have inhaled something they shoud not of ,iI wonder what a person reading this site for the first time thinks about the great egg debate .

.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:21:22 -0000

Great debates though

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:19:18 -0000

Gomp ask
Okay, I want to see a quick show of hands. How many people think that Mercades’ poem incited people to violence?…………Not many, good. Now next question, How many think that I was blaming Mercades’ poem for inciting violence when I asked if a poem could lead to violence? Hmmmmmm

Hard to say.
The ring leader question also has to be clarified from my point of view . To say some one has controll over anybody of course not .All those girsls are responsible for thier own actions . i workrd on a sales floors many year sago .this happened in the first month that i was there one of the older stronger salesman was talking to a guy that was a little bit of a hot head . As the morning progressed this salesman kept on bringing up to the hothead hot his rival (for lack of a better word) was always stealing customers and sales . He would drop this allegation or part of a conversation and bits of gossip to support his view , By the time this sales person( the rival )showed up The hot head was so upset that he started an argument in the middle of the store and got fired . Guess who walked away unscathed . the Hothead was truly responsible for his actions and should have known better and talked to a manager . . Mercades hands are all over this is the same way . It Doesen't excuse anybod's else guilt but the ammount of coencedenses that would have to had taken place to excuse her of manipulating the events would have to be staggering . And gomp I still think using the word Victim in that contexted was wrong especially with your vocabulary other words would not have taken away from your argument .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:31:13 -0000

Chriatina
The bail was ridiciculous and puniiitive and the way you have been sticking up for your daughter has in my opinon shown no disrespect for Victoria .You are right to in saying that no on was raped or murdered .But more importantly you have every right to say what you want with the same passion and sarcasim and everything else included that We all do .Please do not feel that you have to walk on eggshels . I refuse to do this myself so why should you .If you feel like I am being unfair unfactual or anything else let me have it and i will respond in kind .thier is nothing disrespectful is what you have been saying nothing at all .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:12:48 -0000

The reason Christina is exactly as you say
.I believe she was a ringleader . that is why I always go back to her ..As i was responding to AmyV's comment that about Mercades which supported that argument .I never even heard of Judd even before i watched the video and please belive me or not his statements or actions have no affect on my decision making process . Every time you bring up an objection it ussally involves Mercades and that also will spurs the the conversation towards her . The last Time i brought up the name and hit game that BH played on Victoria i did list the names but AmyV's point is a good one about Mercades telling both Victoria and BH that the other didn't like them.
This also shows why BH was upset at Victoria
all of these are valid points and i do not know how to get arround this issue to satisfy your argument .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:53:31 -0000

To Gomp
Your trying to show understanding ( i kind of like that word better than sympathy ) for Mercades has never been a sore point with me . The reason being your examples and reasons forces me to look where i would not look and to consider angles I would not .This is one of the few pleasures that occur while talking about this unplesant case . We also both realizes through our studys of history the power of words and thier affect on events ."If the Glove does not fit you must aquit" . You have always been able to seperate your quest for understanding and commpassion from the seriousness of the indivdual actions of those involved .You have stated time and time again what you feel about what was done to Victoria .By using vctim to describe Mercades and BritH You truly lessen the actions of the defendant It also by extension lessons the suffering of Victoria . People have used the oppisite in this case where they try and make it seem that Victoria suffered to the point where her sufferings were compared to the most brutal of rapes.and therfore lets burn the bunch of them and let's have done with it .Christina's reminder that no one was raped or mudered is a valid point.
Please Gomp it is not your opinins that were the issue these we will debate back and forth and both be the better off for the exchange . .I will ask you though please be carefull on who you lable victim .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:23:54 -0000

AmyV really good point about Mercades telling BH that Victoria didn't like her and telling Victoria that BH didn't like her, it is on the tape , and clearly audible. The others were out of breath at that time .Continually yelling abuse can be tiring..We call that playing both sides .of course it is the classic example on how some one pushes another persons Buttons . .She did more than just betray her by repeating confidences .Inviting all these people over who had a grudge against Victoria set the whole thing up .
Christina and Gomp and others talk about her being blamed for more than her actions or non-action warrant .She will not in my opinion make a very sympathic defendant, It is human nature for jurys to judge character and actions. The Betrayal of friends in both cases ,doing what she did to Victoria and later trying to hang BH out to dry for her own shortcummings will not sit well with any judge or jury.
When you add Kayla's same weak offerings ,Mercades first lawyers with the only 2 black eyes defense . April's attorny ,attack the victim stratagy makes it hard to empathize let alone sympathize with any one of these people .

The worst of this is this makes us sound like we are sticking up for Brit H.She was by far the worst of the whole lot . I do not care if every friend she ever had called her and complained about Victoria her brutality shoud be rewarded with the same ammount of sympathy she showed Victoria .pick a number from 0 to 10 and fill in the blank .An apoligy that demands the victim also apoligize is not an apoligy . An apoligy that does mention any wrong doing by the one aploigizing is not an apoligy . . When Is anyone of these defendants going to stand up and say this is what I did . Don't tell me what the other one did.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 04:20:30 -0000

Thanks Gomp
Clear as mud( lol:) )
Gomp i do not mind your obscure views . I have read it twice to pick up some of the nuances .The girls may have taken advantage of one another or influenced on another to some thing that one would not normally do as is usualy the case in group viloence .But to use the word "victim "to describe any of these girls besides Victoria that were in the room to me is going to far.That is not the same as being sympathetic to one's back ground or what external influences they may have been under ,.But Victim .Come on Gomp Free choice does not make a victim .Truly A bad choice of words .A victim has no choice .I know you can say that this person was a victim of past bulling or a victim of betrayal herself so that caused this or that to happen but as it relates to what happened in that room Mercades and BH were not victims they were participants..

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:18:00 -0000

P.S Christina
Yes you are right ,especially with this case Everybody has an opinion nice to see the whit back in your comments .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:09:20 -0000

None at all taken
Chistina thanks

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:20:57 -0000

Gomp
I am confused as Christina .It seemed to me that you were implying that it was Mercades that for lack of a better term .pushed BH's Buttons..I have certainly said as much in the past . I am cetainly not saying this to get you to say the same .For one I would not insult you that way two it would be pointless to try and 3 i would not insult you that way but could you be a little bit clearer in your meaning .
After Tai Chi of course

To Christina
Apreciate you showing concern for Victoria but again in your place it is better for Mercades to have a seperate trial .Therefore better for you . . I will still caution you if I may .Because it is just repeating myself .I am on record as you know .that I believe Mercades did help instigate this and it was planned . I have presented my reasons as well as my gueses .these types of conversations will be comming up again especially now that plea agreements verus trials are discussed .You have said that you are very tired and stressed .Who can blame you Certainly not me.You have put yourself forward and as Gomp tried to explain to me once that takes a certain ammount of bravery and courage that I apreciate more now then when Gomp patiently pointed this out to me. . I do not keep bringing Mercades to get a rise out of you or to add to your stress . I feel Behind BH and mayby BM that Mercades is the most responsible. or just as resonsible .All my post have said as much. I am worried that you will just see this as us just bashing Mercades when for me it is pointing out what I truly believe and what I want to discuss when these topics arise.As we have exchanged more and more comments my view of you has changed quite a bit and all for the better .My views on Mercades's role and responsibilties in the assult have not changed .
. Sorry for repeating the same post to you once again It probally is not nessecary at this point but considering the added stress that is occuring as this drags on mayby it is .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:46:10 -0000

Gomp
Trials can be like politics you are so right this could go every anywhere and every where .as far lawyers and notes do you take rain checks(didn't think so) .
This is a place to throw ideas around .I have said before that some one was definatly pushing BH's buttons .You have the same suspicions .who do you think this was . This is really not to put you on the spot but you do see things in a way that other do not.
It does go to the heart of the event and it s a better discuusion then how much time this one should get as opposed to this one.Really like to hear what you think.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:22:03 -0000

Electronica
Welcome back,I certainly do not know enough about that case with the cops.Felony charges are serious and do not have to relate to violence .,that was my only point in bringing this up .at best if this person is found gulity would face the same hardships of a felony conviction in his future .These 5 as far as the law is concerened are being tried as adults and what they did to me is worst then giving out some info. of course I coud be very wrong because you are right if he gave Info that led to a viloent crime then that would be worse.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:11:51 -0000

Hi AmyV
Your point about which is harder being the parent of Victoria or one of the defendants is such a good question and goes to the heart of the matter in so many ways , It again shows how 30 minutes can change lives forever .It shows there is no easy answers trying to figure out the why this could happen .BH 's mother said I didn't know you could be so mean ..Friends were surprised at the actions of the six in the rm .Parents I am sure had as a hard of a time recognizing thier childern as Mr Lindsay..I am not trying to be funny here . Any parent seeing there children in that video had to be more affected then we were and look at our reaction..There mouths had to be down around thier ankles ,trying to comprehend what they were seeing.
We as parents only ever wish the very best for our children .To see them at thier worst is every parents worst nightmare . This is probally why Victoria's Mom wants justice and to give them hugs . . AmyV like you I think of the world my son has to grow up in and what it will say if action is not taken.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:35:41 -0000

To Christina
Really nice reply to AmyV .Certainly not to comment for her such as the repsonse was for her .To me it is still done with ,class well done.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:33:06 -0000

To Gomp
Thanks again for the compliment We will see if it was brilliant or that I have watched way to much Law and order .
Please do not forget that its not only Kayla that is pointing the finger at BH as the reason they are more blamless than the charges pending .
Mercades defence so far has been the same .This could work but if there is a trial and it is not bought then it will be worse an all the trials that follow .I do believe that the same judge gets all the trials but again not sure .
Nice to have you back. Do you like have a Doctors note or something as to why you missed yesterdays discussions.(LOL)

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:22:22 -0000

Christina ;
It has been discussed here before and not on just one occassion . Mercades and Kalya had warrning before the cops showed up thier stories match and contridict Victoria's the same way .It would be foolish to think that "what are we going to say ' did not come up . As to text messages and kidapping and those types of issues . I have not been the first to raise these issues Christina . And just because Kayla said "No way We are going to say what happened does not mean that she told the truth. Again Victorisa has been very clear that Kayla hit hit her in both statements and kayla says diiferently . Also Kayla backs Mercades with The I was scared of BH defense . As does Mercades .Were both of them scared of BH!.Both saying the same thing as to why they didn't help where the tape shows active participation.. You Know Christina what most of us think about that defense even those that are trying to give Mercades every break .Those are the things that I am talking about . I will always believe the victims statements over the defendants .Either Victoria is lying or Mercades and Kayla are lying .I do not expect you not to believe your daughter . Just do not expect me to believe either of them because they say this is true.

Why would you think you have to apoligize for seperate trials you are her mother and you should be on her side and cetainly not on the side of the SAO who may be trying to put her in jail for years .Certainly no apolagy is expected for that .As to telling the girls that they were witnesses ,Police lying to suspects to gain thier trust and exact information is not illegle and is prasticed in all levels of investigation .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:39:39 -0000

Legal systems ,I do not think are to be understood by anyone but Lawyers..Just for example take the kidnapping charge . .say Kayla gets to go to trial first and gets anthing less then a year ,House arrest ,or probation..She now testifies Victoria asked for the ride(I know ),,Then April is next she's 14' blames BH and BM ,gets sympathy . She then can testify for BM that there was no kidnapping,Victoria asked for a ride . .At this point no one has taken the stand at thier own trial.
For something as seious as kidnapping you will have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt .You now have 2 young well dressed ladies in court stating the oposite of an attorny maligned victim who ran away from home over 10 times. This may go a long way to present reasonable doubt. ,We believe Mercades and kayla got thier storys straight before the cops showed up .
I would imagine that BM and April the same to some degree don't forget I do not think April ang BM gave detailed statments . you can bet the lawyers will present a united front on the charges facing all of them .
AmyV can you see who is getting left out of this , There are only 2 sure targets for the other lawyers to aim at Victoria and BritH .
They have already started unloading shots at both of theese girls.Bh is really getting her money's worth out of her public attorny.
.Trials for the defence is about reasonable doubt not about
presenting the truth.

Rain or shine .
you will always have my best wishes

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:39:15 -0000

Hi AmyV
suffering through another snow storm so right now i don't really like you and Scott that much .Nothing personel.hows the beach!
It would also be good stratagy for the
defense to have seperate trials , for example if Kayla's trial is first then she would be free to testify for the others without having to take the stand at her own trial..and on and on .The danger for the defense is if kayla screws up or gets a stiff sentence then it would be bad news for the. rest. You can be sure that the defense lawyers have got together at some time to work out a mutual benificial statagy,.I think the closest thing to a lawyer here right now is you and me the "Dream Team" which of couse means were still dreaming for justice for Victoria .
I just hope that some dreams come true .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:59:09 -0000

Christina
Thanks for the answer Re Victoria's
representation.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:57:41 -0000

Christina
Again if you can answer or if you know. Will there be one trial or seperate trials for each.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:38:31 -0000

To Scott she may have ,if so then Unknown (sounds like something out of watergate) didn't mention the lawyer only that SAO was very upset and called an emergecy session but was overuled for the fear of the state playing favorites ,I think they use the word transparency..
Before everybody comments . I am commenting on a comment so I may got some of it wrong and have never seen the deposition or heard about this special session anywhere else.
We have had a few conversations about accuracy and just want to be fair (lol a little).

Have you heard anything about seperate trials. .read a comment on Topix forget where ,but the person said that with all the diferent lawyers and different charges that this person doubted that it would be one trial .Assuming that there is any plans to actually have a trial at any time soon.

Christina is this something that you know of and could answer

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:32:49 -0000

Christina
You are right I do not have all the information and i do not expect you ,the mother of a defendent to provide it for me.This place is for speculations and to debate points that we feel are important . Scott and Gomp usually have different angels then AmyV or myself , That being said Christina if Gomp Or Scott said that there was no Kidnapping Amy V and I would be all over thier statements as well demanding proof while presenting our own . Sharing opinions here is a juggiling act of having respect and then having a thick skin .Sometimes i do not do very well with this myself . After all you have been through I have no doubt about the fact that you have had to develop a thick skin .You have certainly shown respect to me in your replys but I have also been attacked for giving statements without proof and that it the way it should be.
I do hope this is over soon for everyone . For us it is important but still just a past time for you it is what you are living . I now can log off and walk away from this case . I am so sorry that you cannot .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:11:04 -0000

Scott
It did not sound like Victoria had any representation at her deposition. According to unkown at Topix it was SAO that was trying to protect Victoria's interest and it was SOA that went to the judge to strike some of the questioned being asked of Victoria an . I have no idea why Victoria had no lawyer there .It could be finacial or it could be Victoria's habit of going her own way .She may not be the easiest person to have as a client as far as having to take some one's advice . Certainly pure speculation on my part .

It will be very interesting what Jan 20 brings .If no trial date is set to me it must mean that a plea deal is close . Again pure speculation. I hope the judge finally takes controll of this case away from the prosecuters and Defense lawyers .
Will there be one trial or seperate trials for each defendant.For example if I was Kayla i would not want a jury seeing me sitting next to BH or even Mercades. . This has not been discussed. This time next year we may still be commenting on the slow pace . God I hope not.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:01:01 -0000

AmyV
what did you think of the cut and paste From Scott's comments on Topix .He has been commenting since the beginng and just keeps on
posting time after time these short concise gems .the above one really impressed.
Scott you are the man! and we are lucky to have you posting here as well as on Topix.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:15:07 -0000

Christina
You said in an earlier post a few days ago Jan 10
"No sir and ma’am, Tori called her friend and said meet us at CVS and asked Mercades to take her. Period! Its all in black and white on Tori’s statements "

in the same post'

The kidnapping is a joke, and it will not hold up in the trial. The other things that you speak about like BH threatening her and all this I don’t know I wasn’t there, but I know what I have read over and over again from Tori and kidnapping didn’t happen.

my comment was for you saying that Victoria asked for a ride instead of being forced into the car .you have been very adamant on this major fact .Saying the charges were not true and that it is in writing . I was never concerned where the drink came from. If you thought by correcting a small point like that was why I wrote my last comment then once again I will aploigize because that was not my intention..
You have stated that the kidnapping charges are bogus . The statement from Victoria' signed statement was posted by me Jan 10 4:45p.m. says other wise .Do you have any information that contridicts this statement.If so then i would like to see it .Until i do how would you expect myself or others to believe that Victoia went willining in the car because she requested a ride ..I truly understand that you probally have information that we do not and that it may not be in your's or Mercades best interest to share it with us here . But i cannot go against Victoria's written statement because you say its not true .
i hope this makes it cleaer Christina because with you more than any one else on this blog I am trying to tread as carefully as i can and still comment the way i see fit .I have no problem with you calling this as you see this .But i like anyone else that comments here i will chalenge your statements .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:28:44 -0000

To AmyV and Scott
I used some sarcasim and a silly fictisious conversation to prove a point about the kidnapping and drive to CVS
.There is this guy from Topix named Scott from Vero Beach Flordia that also used sarcasim to talk about the trip and the "niceness" of apoligizing to Victoria and buying her a drink.
Again From Scott on Topix April 16/08

"Brittany Mayes and Mercades Nichols drove Tori to meet a friend at a South Lakeland CVS, bought her a drink (I suppose Tori was complaining about the blood in her mouth) and actually apologized to Victoria for pummelling her half to death. I guess Tori's endless pleas to stop hitting her and her understandable non stop crying and quivering finally took a toll on the girls".
paints such a powerful picture in such few words .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:19:27 -0000

To Christina
I have posted a signd statement from Victoria Re the kidnapping and drive to CVS.You say it is not true then say you have proof but you can't get it to us .Well to me it is simple ,.Unless you show me proof to counter the proof of a detailed statement from Victoria you should not expect me or anybody else to believe differently. Read the above statement again if you must. I don't like having to convince you one on one of Mercades guilt but when you chalenge strong eveidence in the case with none of your own it will happen ,from me as well as AmyV
There is no way the SOA would walk into court with these charges if they either knew or believed the eveidence was not there to support this . The consequenses are to severe for for the defendents and for any lawyer who would do this

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:48:15 -0000

Christina
you are probally right about Victoria's parents . You know them and we don't but it seems to us that they have never wanted to seek revenge .
I wonder though if that will change if a trial gets nasty and Victoia is viciously attacked by the families attornies.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:46:49 -0000

Scott
Oops indeed .
An anti -bullying day is to me in the same league as if BrittH talked to young students about how bad it is to do these things .It would be a sign of true change and a desire to help others make better choices then they did .
A paid appearence wether it is Tyra Banks , Larry King or Oprah
will always disgust me . The thought of anyone of the six that were in that room to say this is what really happened .How much again is this interview worth is revolting . There are to many other ways to get your story out . Set up a blog .Give a free interview.
.If Victoria was in this for the money then we would have seen alot more of her than we have .Nearly a year and hardly anything and no stones thrown at her "Friends "Insert Oops here" assailents.
What can they say that could not be said at trial . This is the fourm that has been set aside to set the record staight ,if the defendants are so sure of thier side take it there not on tv.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:13:04 -0000

I think these types of shows would benifit the people like us who have taken such a personel interest in this case. I think the defendants have performed for the public enough to last them and us a lifetime . When they have served whatever sentence gets imposed . they owe society and Victoria nothing else (lawsuits excluded ). This is the whole pupose of what they are going through .Doing these types of shows has a whole diffent meaning then particpating in an anti-Bulling day ..Dr phil has taught me one thing .Healing should be done in private and not for the pleasure of a television audience.Because then we are talking about apperance fees,are we not If any of the defendants need to get thier story out then call the ledger they will put it to paper not edit what you say but will not pay either .Without payment i wonder how important it will be to get the defendants side of the story out.Scott or Gomp if you are talking about Mercades or any of the other girls getting paid to be on these shows then I would say ther are much better avenues for healing then cutting any of these girls a cheque .Again Victoria excluded .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:45:06 -0000

Scott and AmyV
As far as the girls never being friends I would have to agree.First of all there may be prison time for some and certainly parole conditions to be sure that may hinder who they are even aloud to hang with.Mercades and Kayla may still remain friends they stuck together with thier versions of events so far .If I were Aprils parents I would not let her anywhere near BM. Of cource unless BH has graduated from anger management with flying colours I can't see Mercades or Kayla being friends with her . I must admit I do not know all the lines of friendship in this case . Were Victoria and BM ,friends . I don't really know .But , forever is a long time . I know for alot of them Church was the only place to go to escape the confines of house arrest and cerfew restrictions ,and mayby some of those messages about honesty ,responsibility and forgivness will eventually mean enough to get closure .I have certainly seen stranger things happen.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:58:03 -0000

Christina
Thanks for the replys. if it wasn't for lawyers who would need lawyers .
Can you please clarify your statement that it would be detremental for Mercades but she should get her storey out seems to be oppisite thoughts but i am probally just not understsnding what you think is best

Gomp said
there is more here than a train wreck. A beating is not an accident, whether it was planned or not, it involves deliberate action on the part of an attacker. It’s bad enough to take pictures of accident victims, but to take pictures of a beating you yourself caused, well that takes it to a whole different level.

Even though Gomp has called for understanding and compassion of all the people involved Like Christina and Mercades
the above statement once again proves clearly his understanding of events that took place Great observation Gomp.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:43:47 -0000

Gomp
And what about the defendants ?
Should they be the poster chidren for bullying 'If they do not get on board.
but Victoria does or is it too late for them and are they already the poster teens for bullying or shoud they even have an imput,Is it fair for BH to have to see this every March 30 after she has paid her debt .
I don't know myself . But interesting questions .
Christina do you have any views on this that you could share without compormising your delicate situation in what you can freely comment on
here at this site . Would this cause more harm for Mercades after she has met her legal obligations .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:31:28 -0000

To Scott
All the good points Amy has made and you get impressed that she knows what NASCAR means you Southern's are all a like I could just throw a snowball at the lot of you (LOL)

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:28:33 -0000

Well said Scott
but lets give Victoria a camera just to make those 17 seconds good
Ooo Ya baby

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:18:28 -0000

To Christina '
I have been reading the topix site and there was a series of post listing crimes as bad or worst than what happened with Victoria . Not just a couple but a few pages worth . In every or most or all concerning adults the bail was lower or much lower than the bail levied against the ones involved in this case .

In my opinion you are 100% right in your claims that the high bail set was punitive and unneccacary, These girls were not a flight risk and it just put extra unwarranented finacial burdens on the family and extra unrefundable cost in Bondsman fees. i know you have brought some examples yourself and for my part i just dismissed them because of my own negativity that i had towards you at the time .. I obviously believe in law and order as do most. .We in the public domain can judge the defendents as we see fit . This can never be allowed in courts. The bails should have refelected the seriousness of the crimes as they have related to past cases .
If i had a daughter in jail and i did not have the means to make bail then i may have done the same thing . You seem to me to be pretty smart so i don't know if you were taken advantage of or that it just served both your interest .
I hate Dr Phil Because he is self serving and takes advantage of peoples real problems without really helping and he is ruining the perfectly good name of Phil.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 09:09:45 -0000

To Gomp 'I commented about March 30 Anti -Bullying Day Saying it may also not be fair to the defendants and that it may hamper thier ability to move on.Is it fair to the defendants who just like Victoria would have thier names put in the news agian and we would definatly see BH on the video . Or if victoria is behind this then does this over ride the defendants concern for the greater good.. I also said that it could be the perfect venue for them to make a meaningful contribution to make ammends as either part of a plea deal or as a way to get thier dignity back and do some good and to demonstrate the true remorse that we have talked about . I am addressing this to you because this seems to be the sort of thing that you give alot of thought to in regards to this case .What are your views on this .Every one else jump in as you see fit.
"Peace Maker" has such a nice ring to it , it does suit you.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:58:46 -0000

Now I am going to bring uo Victoria 's past before you judge please consider that the defence has and will do this. We of course do not believe that this should matter . Alot of Victoria's peers seem to have issues with her .She battled her parents .and didn't want to follow the rules . Has her own issues with the law and to some has not been a vey sympathtiic Character.Having her real Mom in jail. Staying at all sorts of friends houses and on and on.
These so called short comings are in what my opinion gave her the stength to to come though this the way she did . Life has given her a very tough skin.If she would have been the perfect girl next store ,church going , never slept with a boy character then she would not of called the cops after the attack ,Would have remained the victim and endured in silence whatever abuse these people decided she still deserved.If there is a trial I believe life and Victoria's courage (stupid or not running away from home 14 times is not for the faint of heart)has prepared Victoria to get on the witness stand and absoultly bury her attackers . The defense is making a huge error attacking Victoria she will not be intimidated on the stand and as soon as they go to far and make her cry they are done . . They should take Electronica's approach and attack the validity of the severity of the charges and offer all the sympathy they can real or not ,to the Victoria and her family.
Can you imagine how different we would feel if the 5 families and thier lawyers had said that while we dispute the severity of the charges we want to pay for Victoria's medical expense so this is not a further burden to her and her family. This is not an admission of guilt but an act of compassion considering what Victoria and her family endured..

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:43:00 -0000

Hi Guys
Some thing occured to me last night and want to know what you guys think.Re the trip after the assult..How does the defence counter this argument. If there is a trial,of course the defence is going to bring up Mercades and Kaylas version during cross examination .However unless they put the defendants on the stand there will be no direct testimoney from the defense attached to the girls innocense in this matter .This in a way is a trap for the proscecuters .The defence cannot risk putting anyone of the 5 remaining on the stand and with the seriousness of the charges of kidnapping they may have no choice but to directly chalenge the accusations with direct testimony from the defendants..Even
Kayla and April 's lawyers would not risk putiing those 2 on the stand in order 2 protect the other 3 ,even if what the defence claimed is true. .This charge may be harder to escape from then originaly thought and is execellent leverage for a plea deal.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 22:35:26 -0000

AmyV
The Account of Victoria's is to detailed to be incorrect .It follows
true to what was shown on the tape .Can you imagine this scenirio
Brit H poses Victoria adding to her shame and collects another trophey of her conquest,a still photo of her victim. You can see the humiliation on the face of the once proud Victoria.She packs her things again BH going through her stuff helping but really still being in controll .At this point Victoria says Oh Mercades would please drop me off at CVS on the way to p/u Nana .That would be awefuly nice of you its the least you can do since you just kicked me out with nowhere to go. Of couses Tori no prob you can use my cell .you know the one you asked for an hour ago I think its free now . Tori you don,t mind if the 2 Britnies come as well .Of cource not but I get to ride shotgun . Anything for my friend .Are you thirsty cause I can imagine getting the crap beat out of you has to be tiring . We will fix you up once we get there.
Sorry for the sarcasim but the notion that Victoria would willinly get in a car and stay under the controll of BH is so illogical .

Amy there is more to Gomp then just peacemaker remember his run ins with Navigator .He is a true student of humanity .I am sure he has examples of Romans and And Gauls and Mongles that he is just waiting for the chance to apply to this case .And he will do it, there is always a point and it is never a shallow one not like my above sarcasim.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:58:16 -0000

AmyV
It is not the first time we have posted at the same time to say the same thing .For me reading the post long before I joined the discussions it was always your post that i would agree with. With this case there is hardly a difference in any of our opinions .i have truley enjoyed being co-chair with you .The seriouness that we see this is equal to the disgust we feel.I sometimes feel sorry For the person we are debating with because they usally get a double dose of the same. That being said the responses back usally start AmyV and Phil so it does save them time .
In the long run The recording of the tape and the releasing of the tape has protected Victoria from further reprisals .Everybody in Lakeland and Mullberry knew she was off limits .Untouchable. The outpouring of support is just eating up the people that do not like Victoria . The defendants wanted to humiliate her instead they humiliated themselves .Everytime I hear if you knew Victoria ,Bla.,bla bla . its just iceing on the cake.These people who are stuck in thier pettiness have still not realized the thruth .Victoria won you all lost. Now they want to name a day after her . How sweet is that .I wonder what AC.BM, BH and Merc
and Kayla think of that . March 30 may be a day they should just stay home from now on .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:21:50 -0000

Scott
Excellent question about he taping helping or hurting. Victoria.In the long run helped because it took her away from the contoll of her abusers. With all the reved up emotins of the girls in the room at first it dosen't appear that it made a difference . I think it made BH worse she seemed to get into interagation role pretty quickly with tape roling . also with the tape rolling may have made April live up to her role to fight(attack)Victoria. Of couse the humilatin factor is tenfold because it is being recorded .Can you imangine if these "friends had the tape and Victoria had not called the police they would have made every attempt to break her over and over.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:27:26 -0000

To AmyV ,Gomp and Scott
I have been reading your comments for so long that I cannot tell you how much i appreciate your kind words.
Thank-you again for it is a real pleasure to exchange and debate with such people as yourselves not only do you all deeply care about what truly matters, you bring an intellect that is sharp and clear and inclusive .
Well done to all of you

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:54:28 -0000

To amyV
good point abot the shooters at collinbine .If there cannot be honest dialougee on the horificc results that bulling causes then what is the use of haveing a the day at all .
Some like Megan Meier take thier own life others turn to rage not only at those that bully but the instituions that not only allow it but seem to promote it .Who will say anything to the star running back or the popular pretty girl. certainly not the schools. The ones who did this at collingbine were also the victims .No excuses can be made for thier actions but what does the body count have to be before the painful thruths can be discuused.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:20:25 -0000

The above post can be found at the ledger website I have left a few minor things out .please feel free to check but I am just angry at these defendants right now so i'm going to cool off so by the time i get back home i can give my son a big hug .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:11:38 -0000

Form Victoria'sStatement pg 11
Iam typing this out cause i caanot cut and paste

So I o back in the room to pack my stuff BH comes in takes a picture of the aftermath,and I was like holding my check and everything and she takes a picture um and helps me pack up some of my stuff and I'm like ok I'm going to go and walk somewhere .i'm going to find somewhere to go .I'll walk to the nearest gas station and they'll call the cops.And they were like ;She was like no you're getting into the car with me .And i'm like no i'm not your going to hit me. She's like no i swear to God you learned your lesson I'm not going to hit you anymore .So she grabs me by the hand and pulls me out of the front door and puts me in the front seat.This point um there all just screaming at me telling me its going to be worse on my part. This is only the beginning ,If I call the cops and BM And BH are in the backseat Ac ,Kayla steve and Zach jump in his car anfd drive off
pg12
They drove off to um i think to tak AC home .Um i call Lisa Kelly my friend to meet me at her Nana's work which is behind cvs and um Lisa kelly is like i can't hear you I don't know whats going on but i'll meet you there so um Brittnay Hardcassles comes up and hands me a a cold soda and tells me sorry and then tells me i need to aploigize to all the girls that I owe them a big apology .So i apoligize to everybody I walk off BH
goes be careful.And i walk off Lisa Kelly comes up .Then a white explorer comes by and a girl yells something out the window .I don't know what she yelled and they drive off.

How anyone gets they offered her ride or that Victoria asked to be dropped off is rediculous. Please remember the condition Victoria would have been in at this time .
No word of a lie just typing this report Ican feel the bile rising in my stomach .That poor girl to be put through that and thhen have to apoligize .
i know where i would like to stick that pepsi.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:57:33 -0000

Cristina .
Victoria's statement cleary says that she was forced into the car and was threatned and made to apoligise. If Mercades says differently then you should believe your daughter .I do not expect you to feel sorry for Deputy Torres. People who are charged with felonys if found guilty should pay the price. i was using this as a commparison that even if it means hardship if you are guilty pay the price.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:50:20 -0000

Colliinbine would be a better day to represent anti-bulling . It had nothing to do with betrayed friendships and boys and shows all the extremes of this very real problem. It shows what alienated people who are tormented can become and the results that happened there outwiegh Lakeland in any convceivable fashion.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:28:17 -0000

To All
Victoria must have been scared shitless in that car . She would have no idea where they were going to take her .Can you imagine the pain she would have been in and still trying to deal with her captors . but here have a pepsi you don't look that bad yet but you will if you report this to anybody.now say your sorry.Amy is right sickening ,disgusting ,revolting.well i think we all know how i feel about this part of the assult.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:47:46 -0000

To Scott
a simple question .Do you think Victoria had any choice of getting in the car with BH ,Mercades and BM. I do not why would she. Victoria was very clear in her statement how Bh said no you are comming with us and was led by the arm and put in the front seat .She was made to apoligise and further threatened.The fact that Victoria gives them credit for dropping her off speaks more for the class that Victoria showed towards her abusers then any innocents of kidnapping.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:32:19 -0000

AmyV
Please let me know if you find the site for Anti bullying day. .Question though as good of a sentiment as this is ,would it not make March 30th even harder for Victoria to go through year after year.Because we all know what tape will be used to get the message accross.
Is it just for the state of Flordia.Also we have both said after the defendants have paid thier debt they should be able to move on and would this further impede what surley will be a difficult task as it is ,and if so should this even be considered.Ten years from now BH will see her self as well as Victoria the collateral damage of this may never go away as GregS has said Train Wreck. ..
On the other hand (right up Gomp's ally) .If the defendants could get behind this and become involved in a positive way it could help heal so many of the wounds that this has caused .For Lakeland,Mulberry , thier highschools,the defendants and thier families and would show the community at large that the defendants are genuinly remoseful and want to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. The all around happy ending that Gomp is looking for\. .Mayby the attornys for the accued should consider this approach to get reduced sentences instead of trying to drag the victim through a legal meatgrinder.Be really interested to hear eveyones views.
Electronica you said earlier that you had ideas to reduce bullying this would be a good time and place to share those ideas .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:45:37 -0000

To Gomp
what the victim wants is always and should be weighed by the judge'This is done at sentencing in victims impact statements..Many sentences have been reduced with pleas from victims and families of victims for lienency ..It just can't over rule the law. the very best example of why is spousal abuse . many times after an assult the victim for many reasons dosen't want to press any charges.
I have heard it said that if Victoria dosen't want them to go to jail then why should we. Well if Victoria demanded life in prison do we still say then that's fine with me.. of couses not.The onus of a plea deal is on the defense in this case,The SAO has every right to demand payment for the crimes and are under no obligation to put one forward, Mayby they are taking Bulling and internet violence seriously and applying the laws they have to do this.You and GregS understand fighting and hitting more then I do .Victoria could have easily died in tha t room .not because the intent was there to do this but because there was no attempt to limit the damage ..BM's hand was bloodied from so many hits and still this did not stop her or even cause Mercades concern the oppisite no "you don't have to stop lets keep it down." ...as Scott said it was only that they had to p/u the Grandmother that had anything to do with why they stopped.Isn't this the acts of felons..

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:58:49 -0000

Gomp
I will say this if thier lawyers or clients felt they were innocent then they should go to trial to clear thier names of the most serious charges, But this trial has never really been about guilt or innocence and has always been about the punishment deserved. I do not like to dispute GregS's facts because he does so much more research than i but I think it is not uncommen for a youth in Flordia to have a felony conviction when tried as an adult.As GregS has said and I have said in earlier post .If they are guilty of the crimes are they not deserving of the sentences associated with the offenses. I think society gets in trouble when this is not followed. Reading Unkown's post on topix desribing Victoria's encounter with AC's lawyer made me so angry.It was not Victoria's decision on what charges to press . For all the nasty things that have been brought up about her past and her decision making she has done pretty much everything right as it pertains to the assult . She ignored a very real threat of a worst beating and called the police .didn't fight back and hasn't thrown any shots at her (friends)assliants.While the friends turn on one another. .Bad example i know but here it goes . I do not believe in the death penaltiy .but I wouldnt feel sorry when Brooke Bennit's Uncle gets his .If these girls get a harsh sentence I don't know how bad i would feel even if i disagreed .I would be very angry with a slap on the wirst. .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:43:51 -0000

Amy Feel free to jump in anytime .I wonder what mine and everyone else opinion would be if we acutaly saw the rest of the video or seeing Bm and Kayla hitting Victoria .I think hearts would harden fairly quickly.
Its just not about the 3 minuets we see so much worse took place .The reason its hard to tell who said what is with them all the screaming at Victoria all at once it must have added to her confusion and helplessness .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:18:28 -0000

AmyV i have not seen the deposition though i would also like to see it .. JFk mystry , Bigfoot and The Burmuda triangle will be solved before this case . I think Kayla has pointed the finger at BH forJFK.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:02:11 -0000

GregS Says
On the felony conviction, if they are guilty of the crime then they deserve to be convicted, and if they are not guilty then they do not deserve to be convicted. Because it’s a violent crime, and many individuals receive felony convictions for much less, I would not feel bad if they are convicted.
I have said as much the same thing .I am now having my doubts on April and do not think kayla deserves any felony conviction .What are your views in regards to these 2

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:56:34 -0000

Electronica
the deputy in polk county who is accused of giving private info is also facing felony charges. She is 23 years old and if guilty all she worked for is gone . Ask Christina if she has any sympathy for this person.It is not for just violent acts.The lifetime scenario myself and Amy were given was not in a realistiqe setting ,it was based on a fictisiuos choice. The courts already decided that the defendants are to be charged as adults therfore if guilty they face adult sentences . I believe the choice to charge them as adults was just.. The lifetime argument is not what anyone here is still talking about or wants for anybody. . Your sentence recomondation for April is closer to what most people are saying then what i am saying and i am seriously thinking this through more ..Don't know if will change my opinion but when people like Scot and Gomp and yourself (noMocking at all) allagree I tend to re think. If wisdom came with age the world would be a better place than it is now.Its up to you how long you post and from one who disagrees with you more than most i think it would be to bad . Know one else puts me in my place when i say stupid things .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:10:43 -0000

Sorry to disagree she may have asked to be dropped off but did not have any choice to get in the car in the first place . Why would she ask them for a lift after what happened.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:34:30 -0000

To Trench
I would like to add my thanks To Gomp's
Not only for the site itself.but also on the way you make sure respect is given to all that "blog",I mean comment are here .job well done

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:23:06 -0000

Scott
Does this include April in your opinion I know its hard with her because of her willing perticipation
versus her age and the influence
of older teens especially BM.I am trying to seperate my anger at thier defense strategy.I must admit its not easy for me to do so .Part of me feels that her crimes meet the burden of felonys so that should be enough.Electronica and others have raised the fact that it is to life altering for her actions . Is this not what trials are all about .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:58:32 -0000

Christina .Pease be careful.There have been nutcases invoved in this since the beginning , All of us that still post here detest the threats that you and your family and the rest of the familys involved have received since the beginning .I suppose telling you to go to the authorities may be futile but even if you sleep with one eye open being on record is never a bad thing.
.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:00:24 -0000

To Electronica ;
Gomp is probally right
Sometimes I am too sensitive ;
Keep telling it in your own way .
Regards
Phil

Hi Gomp '
Never good when you have to talk to Lawyers.
With BH being 17 and the ammount of damage she inflicted along with personally preventing Victoria from leaving .Dosen't that meet a felony conviction in law and spirit . Huge difference between her and the others as far as reving up the brutality. And She was just under 18 . I really think that with her its is deserved and not being vindictive .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 03:55:48 -0000

Hey guys seem to be able to post here no problems Going to reoost my last 2 as one message ,

One of the largest obsticals faceing these girls is the danger of felony convictions . If this goes to trial they may get this attached . Is a felony conviction deserved for any of the defendants Especially BH .BM or Mercades. This may be more damageing then any time spent in jail . what are your thoughts . I would not loose much sleep if Bh got a felony conviction. and if they are guilty of charges that are felony charges .then are they not deserved . I am not as sure as i once was (thanks Electronica ) .like to get your opinions AmyV ,Scott and Gomp.
Just asking this makes me a lousy procecutor I know .

To Electronica did not mean to exclude you but you have made it clear your views on this of cource feel free to jump in.
I know i got a bit upset on the Phil’s mean comment , i have been reading topix more closely . That’s a freaking war over there . I have no reason to comlain if i am comparing how we communicate here compared to that site interesting to read don’t know about postin

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/11/pleas-offered-in-cheerleader-beating.html

Phil — Sat, 03 Jan 2009 06:09:36 -0000

Don't think so
Gomp later clarified but I am sure Gomp will answer .to me it would have been good news because it would have meant .They were serious about procecuting the rest

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/09/casey-anthony-facebook.html

Phil — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:44:04 -0000

Hi Cindy
could you please tell me where you saw about the fingerprints on the duct tape ,
Thanks

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/09/casey-anthony-facebook.html

Phil — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:29:07 -0000

I know everbody feels sorry for George ,but he is an ex cop Why didn't he doing anything to find Caylee
or push the issues with casey, until Cindy called the cops, Casey had him wrapped around her finger . At least the waaco mom used to try to call her out on things and acutaly got the investigation going while George wanted to stay out of it..

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/09/casey-anthony-facebook.html

Phil — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:37:31 -0000

Greg
You do much legitimate research for me to not to give you her kudo's .i do not know if there will ever be a way to know why sometimes the switch tuns off or on to why one kills and one will just think about it .With Casey i think her mother and especially her father let her get away with things for so long that it built into Casey a false sence of invinceability..This is no way should be interperated that I am blameing the parents

To everybody else ;
.As sorry as I am for George to be saddled with these 2 woman it seems for what i have seen that the mother would call out Casies before George would . Please also think about this ,George the ex cop was making no move to forces the issue on Cayle's disapearence before
Cindy Anothony called the cops .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/09/casey-anthony-facebook.html

Phil — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:55:28 -0000

Latest news George taken into custidy for
considering suicide .Poor man stuck with those 2 women

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/09/casey-anthony-facebook.html

Phil — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:50:58 -0000

Nothing says love like a sticker on duct tape .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/09/casey-anthony-facebook.html

Phil — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:34:19 -0000

Hi GregS
Some people are not born with the ability to show empathy for anybody .Does this make them sick,or just the most selfish. Some people are born evil I don't know if that it a disease or a characteristic . Most people who would have the same brain configuration would not show that lack of empathy with murder especially of thier own child . I to do not agrree with the death penality . Not for study reasons but for me the worst thing you can do to someone like Casey Anthony is to throw her in jail for life and forget about her . ,because to people like her it is all about her ,they hate to be forgotton. .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/09/casey-anthony-facebook.html

Phil — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:32:38 -0000

See the latest
Casey's Mom sent an e-mail ;

In the e-mail obtained by Local 6 News, Cindy Anthony wrote to Lois Peter, "As for my daughter, she never hurt Caylee and that will be proven. She loved her deeply."

Prisons are definatly filled with parents innocent children

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/youtube-tagger-busted.html

Phil — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:21:10 -0000

Funny you say that. Cause that vandal makes more than both of you and is flown all over the world for his art, has his own boost mobile phone, Rebok shoe among many other things.. what do you have to show for your life?

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:07:57 -0000

To Electronica did not mean to exclude you but you have made it clear your views on this of cource feel free to jump in.
I know i got a bit upset on the Phil's mean comment , i have been reading topix more closely . That's a freaking war over there . I have no reason to comlain if i am comparing how we communicate here compared to that site interesting to read don't know about posting.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:01:20 -0000

One of the largest obsticals faceing these girls is the danger of felony convictions . If this goes to trial they may get this attached . Is a felony conviction deserved for any of the defendants Especially BH .BM or Mercades. This may be more damageing then any time spent in jail . what are your thoughts . I would not loose much sleep if Bh got a felony conviction. and if they are guilty of charges that are felony charges .then are they not deserved . I am not as sure as i once was (thanks Electronica ) .like to get your opinions AmyV ,Scott and Gomp.
Just asking this makes me a lousy procecutor I know .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:27:44 -0000

Wow with great power does come the frame
You are always watching

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:09:23 -0000

Re slow page
I think its because there are now 1462 messages on one page .Why don't we start posting under PLEA DEAL OFFERED. it will go faster I think

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:50:49 -0000

I have been wanting to make a point for a while re the trip to cvs and the apoligy that took . to do this in the way i want means sharing personal history .which is never easy .My father was an acoholic and for most of our formitive years abuse went with this as it usually does .Ussaually directed at my mother as bullys of any kind pray on the vunerable. In time he quit drinking and for the most part my parents worked things out .this was after most of us were on our own. So Gomp I have seen the power of redemption first hand .The power of love and forgivness is very powerful Too bad it is not used neary enough .Every time The physical abuse happened wether he was drunk or sober was always followed by an apoligy that went like this . I am sorry for what i did but you should of known better then to Bla.BlaBla . You should also apoligise to for what you did also.. Then of course to either protect herself or us kids 'never really sure which My mother would aploigise for whatever it was that caused my father to do what he did.When I read about the apoligy that BH exacted from Victoria my heart broke in remeberance . To Electronica whatever else you may think or believe about the happings of March 30th . That was not an apoligy, it was a continuation of the abuse . The shame of the victim having to aploigise to the abusers for thier role in getting abused is commen and degrading .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:22:58 -0000

Scott;
If is not prying are you on topix as well if yes are you Scott from Hattisburg MS Or Scott from Flordia
Can't tell from the comments
no problem if you like youe anominity just curious
thanks

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:23:13 -0000

Gomp I said earlier to be careful about wanting this to turn out good for everyone. I don't know how Victoria gets justice . a proper derterent and statement is made and the defendants recieve "lienient sentence " If you had to choose between bad choices where would you go . You asked that of us earier .5 years for Bh or 6 months house arrest if that was your 2 choices what would it be .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:45:43 -0000

To Electronica
Thank you for the last post .
Any time any one goes to prison it is cruel no doubt about it . To send a mother away when she has young children or a father who is the main bread winner is an act of cruelity .I think a sentence of 3 to 4 years would mean 2 years and parole with time considerd for the house arrest . thats usually how it works . I will ask the same questions . Is she guilty of the crimes she is being charged with . if not go to court and prove it . But if found guilty then why should she not pay the price . If all your arguments if even half of your arguments are right then the most of the defendants will be found innocent of the major felony charges .Do you think April and Mercades would be found guilty.
We just can't say put them in jail for 1 year or 6 months house arrest just because . it has to be for being guilty of speccific crimes , Any defendant feeling a plea deal is to harsh goes to trial .My opinion .better take a deal even if its not what they feel is fair,

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:24:46 -0000

To gomp ;
I understand ,I think, in what you are saying, But to me if they are guilty of the charges laid than thats what they are guilty of .Do you think it was proper to charge them as adults , This is the first question .If the answer is no then the tape dosen't get released and Victoria may be still at the mercey of her tormentors .I.but everything is handled in juv court .If yes again what charges laid against any of these defendants do you see as ones that should not be put before the courts , .If they are found guilty then they are guilty .that is what jurys decide and rightfully so . If the defence is sure of thier innocence then go before a jury. We both know if that happens they will probally be found guilty . then thats also fair. How can it not be.And if found guilty by a jury of peers why should they not face the sentences imposed.As far as other examples that do not get charged that is true in all crimes accross the borad .You can also use those examples in trial to prove innocense or at sentence hearings to reduce puishments . How do you go about charging BH that she would be gaurenteed to get 2 to 3 years .You would have to drop pretty much all of the charges against her and then everybody else just walks .None of these girls are in danger of life in prison .Thier is the real danger of felonie charges sticking and i believe this is the stumbling block for a deal . I believe this is the right thing for the courts to decide .Of all the fights you have seen does any of them equal this one .Not the total package from beginning to end .Why was the public so outraged when as you say his goes on all the time .Why would the police and courts act the way they do if this goes on all the time . this attack is in a league of its own .
If it wasn't in a league of its own we wouldn't even be commenting right now.Victims wishes are only considerd at sentencing .you know why this is fair especially in assult cases .Victoria can ask for lienentcy or demand blood and the judge considers it in his rulings.A plea deal may be the best thing but if it doesn't work out does not mean a trial is unfair to the defendants.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:44:32 -0000

To Electronica
i am really trying to give you the benifit of the doubt not about your opinions you passionatly believe your views are right and I don't want a bunch of people on this thread that just agree with me .I like to hear different views and then of course i will respond. Its the saying that i am just making things up or as you said to Amy "And Phils real mean"
Why not say that you just disagree with me or please clarify what you said . any thing to have a discussion and not an argument . you have ripped into me at least twice ,accused me of just making things up and calling peoples ideas or opinions stupid is not having a discuusion its having an argument.,Why not ask Mark if considering other punishments given to other crime if he is being fair . .Again i don't really have a problem with that but its hard for me not to believe its not a personel attack.I hardly agree with you at all but i read everything you say and i think this thread is stronger because you post here . does that mean i am mocking you.You seem to get angry at other peoples opinions when someone dosen't accept your point of view.But how do you wish me to resond or anyone else when you say thats just stupid

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:06:33 -0000

To gomp
Have no idea if April is enjoying this . She was gigling during her court hearing after her week in jail . She didn't seem to upset at that point. April to me is really hard.She is the one i think will probally re-offend Her and her family through thier lawyers are the ones really going after Victoria .That to me shows thier moral compass needs adjusting (Thats me being nice).The actions of her defense shows that they believe as she said to Victoria "You brought it on yourself"

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:35:35 -0000

Gomp
I will take this opurtunity to disagree with you very strongly .A judge and not the SOA decided that the defendants were to be tried as adults. This I wholeheartly agree with .The charges are not bougus these are what took place wether you or i believe that the sentences attached to the crimes are severe .The fact that felonie charges are attached reflects the seriosness of the crimes committed they would not be the first or last teenagers even at 14 to have these types of charges levied . Which charge do you see as not a just accusation to be decided before the courts .If they were reacting to the public outrage is because they saw what we all saw and ruled accordingly . There is no way they are going to get life everyone knows this .They do all face felony charges and to me deservidly so . The defense can also go to the SOA and offer a plea deal . That also has not been done to my knowledge.Last month we were all critisizing that they would only get 6 months house arrest .This latest turn seems to be more in line with what they should recieve. And do you think that the defendants would except anything that would give them a feolnie conviction ,I do not think so .At this point it is up to the state to get a conviction for the charges levied and with all due respect 2to 3 years for BHis not enough for her action at her age she was not 14 Kidnapping,Assult,forcilbe confinement ,Tampering with a witness . Do you believe she is innocent of any of these charges .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:04:51 -0000

To Gomp
How is SAO to Blame
They tried very hard to stop the viscious attack by AC lawyer,The judge is in charge of the schelduing and ruling on defense motions .Are they supposed to drop the more seious charges because the defendants are at risk for heavey time .Please explain futher if you can

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:36:23 -0000

Would everyone agree to life in prison for the lawyers.
On a serious note I keep on going back To GregS's train wreck comments
Colateral damage all over the place.
The more i read abot AC Lawyer the less sympthy i have for Giggles Cooper (I know i did not have much to begin with). I hope the judge or jury takes in account the added and needless suffering some of these defendants (through thier Lawyers) have put Victoria through.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:27:52 -0000

To Gomp
' If you gave your word on the jury that you could reach that decision and you think they are guilty of the act would you still aquit because of the sentence

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:07:01 -0000

To Gomp
It is the only way to follow all your worldly advice.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:53:39 -0000

Christina 100% joking 'for sure .
You have answered all of my questions respectivly and I give you alot of credit for that .
As well as for excepting my apology. i know sometimes It is harder to accept an apology than it is to give it.i did rip into you pretty good. . i also understand why you would not like to guess as to what Mercades was thinking especially to us here. thanks again for your reply

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:47:07 -0000

Hi Christina
I am going to ask you a very difficult question. I will truley understand if you choose not to answer . Do you still contend that Mercades didn't act beacuse she was afraid of BritH. I have not heard you say this since your earliest interviews.
That Karma statement, you do remember that I apoligised for my personal attack right (lol).We truley do have to meet our maker at the end and we all end up paying for our mistakes one way or another .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:24:57 -0000

For us who are calling for signifigant sentences should be reminded what the price the defendants and thier families have already paid ..It is easy to start throwing years at these people and we must always be viligant in our reasoning and concvictions .Or that the defendants are sitting on a beach laughing it up at what they did.
Below is a cut and paste from Rainman on Topix Aug 8 i believe .don't know if this infinges on any copy right agreements.

Again from Rainman on Topix
"I'm pretty sure they've sobered-up quite a bit. All spent a week in juvenile detention, at least one day in adult jail (Mayes served three and Mercades is upto about eight), then at least a month under house arrest, and a daily 7pm curfew since then. The have other restrictions and the DOC checks on them constantly. Their families have had to come-up with tens of thousands in bond collateral, several thousand in non-refundable bond fees, and all except Hardcastle have expensive private attorneys. They were kicked out of their schools. All of their family and friends know what they did. Their attorneys have explained very clearly to them that a significant chuck of their lives are at stake. They can't leave the jurisdiction without court permission. They can't make any long-term plans with this hanging over their heads. In short, they've been thoroughly slapped around and the real punishment hasn't even begun. Also, as David points out, felony convictions are forever. Google is also forever. There is no way in hell these girls are living happily and feeling that it is all over."

To Scott
I believe counciling and other support systems are needed and should be provided to all that were invovled in this . After they have served thier sentences they have every right to and hopefully the will to be better then what they have shown to date .
I feel it is a travisty that anyone who is a victim of a violent crime is expected to pay for thier medical treatment.Talk about adding a burden to the victim.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:54:52 -0000

Gomp,
Not a real fair question but as i said earlier fair is subjective, To be on a jury you have to give your word that you can make these decesions .( they don't let people on death case jurys who cannot vote for death..If i knew that going in i would not seve on a jury that would give them life ..If i was on the jury and we found them guilty then I woluld impose the guilty verdict that the courts ordered. .Personally i would rather see them all walk then serve a life sentence.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:25:45 -0000

Scott said
There is every chance Kayla is a good person who just needs to be steered in the right direction. But Kayla did lose her cool during the assault and it’s inmportant that she realize she did and why she didt .
It is more important rhat she realizes that her role had a direct effect in empowering BH to do the damage she did .She wasn't thinking about opening the door to let victoria out she was in her face making sure BH stayed wound up.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:01:01 -0000

AmyV
was typing my last response so didn't see your last one till I posted .Amazing how we are still on the same page .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:51:49 -0000

To scott
there is every chance that they are all
nice people to someone ,we will not know until we see them do something nice .that may be never because we do not see thier lives ,or thier actions .I doubt BH and Victoria think much of Kayla at this point . but either do i and just think that mayby somthing me BH and Victoria have in common. Our opinions are based on information as it relates to this case . I keep on saying this but this is not about evil people it is about evil deeds. Punish the person for the evil deeds they have done, how good or remorseful they are will show in time . So far thier actions sice March 30 should land most of them in jail.
AmyV I just do not waste time trying to convince people.I present my points , comment where i chose and try to treat people that comment here with with respect. The one time that i did not I was fortunate enough to have Gomp point me to a better place . This is not about convincing Electronica that you or i am right . with every one else it is an exchange of points of views .,not an argument on personal Characteristics ,Way before I joined this discussion group i read all the comments . you are anything but mean . I know that you know this as well .everey one has the right here to give thier opinions . I have a great deal of respect with the thought that gets put in to the comments that get put on this site there are differing opinion to be sure .We don't just make things up because it sounds good or because it supports our view .We all have prejudices that will make all of us have a unique. perspective I know that my views are not based on meaness but on what i feel is apropriate response to the crimes coommited and to help to deter others or at least let the next ones know what to expect if it dosen't deter them.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:23:46 -0000

Amy
you are so right about Kayla .Those girls were made to give over the evidence nothing was voulentered and Kaylas interview I chalenge anybody to find where she admitted to doing anything wrong
Signed
The mean one

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:15:06 -0000

To AmyV
As I stated earlier prisons are also filled with people who just went along
but knew better .Actions will always speak louder than intentions .Of course the most common type of prisoner is the one behind bars that thier parents claim did no wrong..

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 06:08:57 -0000

Gomp
Was typing while you were posting so didn't read yours before i posted mine .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 06:00:09 -0000

To Scott
It hard to say but I think April with Mayes saying they are going to meet .I have stated all along that BM has gotten off way to lighly as far as the focus of blame attached to the beating the more the spot light remains on her the worse she looks.She was the one who to me did this out of enjoyment and not out of anger, I see a 17 year old encouraging a 14 year old to commit violence for her own thrill..The fact that she held the camera for so long and her gross encouragements and the fact that she went with Mercades and /Bh and was part of that little escapade and that she did hit Victoria warrent her a stiff stentence as well .
I make no apoligies what so ever for my sentence recomondations . No matter where you turn in this case the uglinenss of this event just keeps on getting worst . Any apology I have heard is only that some one is sorry for what happened to Victoria . i have not heard anyone or thier lawyers say that they or thier client is sorry for what they did to victoria. Here is the type of apoligy i will believe ,

"Victoria I am so sorry for what i did to you . I was so wrong " I acted terriblly in a way that shamed me and my family no matter what you said or did to any of us . you did not deserve this you are not to blame we are .
Instead we have heard why Victoria brought this on herself..The exception to me is Cara .I do believe that she was sorry for her actions .i think she should still face charges. But in her Audio interviview she said her own actions were not good no lying or or passing the buck .She probbaly deserved probation or 3 months house arrest .Victoria recognized her unwillingness to be involved like the others were .,which was full throttle.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:22:50 -0000

To AmyV
I would also like this to go to trial but if a resonable punishment can be dealt and save Victoria the pain of testifying i would support that . I have to agree with Scott I doubt very much that these people will get what they deserve ..Still the longer it takes to reach a plea deal may mean a trial.If it was just 6 months house arrest then The deal would have probally have been taken.Can you imagine 6 months for that . that would be such a miscarrage of justice ..The only reason to get kayla to testify wolud be to support the planned assult evidence or the kidnapping evidence but she also just may have or would recieve a plea deal that is exceptable and have nothing to do with testifying , But those that betray would expect others to do the same so the i was afraid of BH crap is probally still in play. .You would think if they were that afraid of BritH then it would be the last person you would blame ..BFF just dosen't mean what I thought .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:46:22 -0000

Scott
According to Victoria's deposition reported in the ledger .after Victoria called the cops

Lindsay said Mayes, along with April Cooper, 15, another defendant, called her to complain."She was just saying that I was messed up and she was gonna whoop my butt for it," Lindsay said.

Mayes later threatened via MySpace postings that she and Cooper "were gonna meet up" with her, Lindsay said.

"And I said that my friend had brass knuckles and that if she was gonna jump me, that would be my defense," Lindsay said, according to the deposition.

She was resonding to threats .Mercades would know this for sure 100% and this is who was invited over by Mercades .When we heard about the trash talking and saw the result on tape we could not believe it .how could this be the result of trash talking .Look how much time is spent here tryng to figure out how these people could reach a decision to do this ,it still boggles the mind.Are they evil phycopaths , sociopaths.What are we missing because this can't be the result of some insults and dating a boy .To expect Victoria to to have any inclination that this would be the result is unfair to victoria . Yes she knew that there could be some trouble but 6 people locking you in a room and to do what was done could not of and should not of been expected .As AmyV has stated time and time again .She assumed that Mercades would be her friend and make sure this would not happen. The betrayal was complete and the result was staggering in its brutality .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:19:42 -0000

Scott
I am having the same problem .I think it is because thier is over 1300 messages on this one page . I know less about computers than most just a guess

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:45:22 -0000

To Scott.
If i didn.t want BH to serve a long prson sentence I would almost feel sorry for her(really big on the almost) . You would think she did this all by herself .If BH took a frying pan,the cast iron type , and slapped her self up side her head about a dozen times she could have the pain to match the betrayal of friends Victoria experienced .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:19:24 -0000

Scott
If I were kayla I would worry if she got a phone call or text message inviting her for a pepsi at CVS or just any impromtu get together . But they all are friends so mayby it wouldn't be that bad ,because if you can't trust your friends who can you trust.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:49:24 -0000

To Gomp
Thanks for your last reply.the real pleasure of exchanging views with you is you try to see what I mean as well as what I am saying and then to consider if it is valid even if it chalanges your on views.. A real gift.
and i was worried that that you would be offended Thanks again .
I will say this to you Gomp I understand the need for redemption in this case .the role between the abusers and the abused is complex at best .The betrayal of trust and friendship complicates this tenfold both for the for the defendants and the victim. .The real reason behind this is because if the defendants remain as i believe they are now then thier life will be empty off all thats important . Victoria does not have to do this .She does not have to forgive .talk to the defendants or in any way make it easy for the defendants to move on.As with all victims of senseless brutality Victoria needs to learn that she was not at fault and there is no responsibility for her to to do anything else .The further away from this event she can put herself the better she will be. The opposite is again true for the defendants . the only way for thier redemption is to take in what they did to try in some way to feel the pain they caused and make it part of who they were in order to become what they should of been all along .This is not easy at any age let alone the age of everybody invoved . Your last anology is what I have been trying to get accross since the beginning . ( well after all the harsh punishment stuff ) .
Scott ;
How many women and girls or boys for that matter who suffer that level abuse have the courage to report it .Again i do not know Victoria but crises tends to show the mettle of a person good or bad how she found the courage to pick up the phone is itsself encouraging to her ability to move beyond the confines of her ordeal. This is no small feat. How many battered woman report thier abuse or rape victims tell of thier assult or sexual abuse . How many teenagers suffer years of torment in silence .Of couse we see the thanks that these brave people get.How ever the biggest chalange is always the first step making that phone call .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:10:23 -0000

I think the bravest thing Victoria did was to call the police .If you think her life is more difficult now consider how hard her life would have been if she said nothing .I do not believe the abuse and bullying would have ended .the embarresment and humiliation would have to be fought every day at her school and at every social gathering of her peers . When the tape was released the outpour of support for Victoria and the univeral condemation for the defendants protected Victoria from any further reprisals .If the tape hadn't been released to the public then the fact that she went to the police would have put her in danger just like it did when she called the police the week before because of the other girls that wanted to beat her up. Her life was changed when the beating started not when the tape was released .Again the amount of courage it took to pick up that phone after such an assult so perfectly described by Scott in the above post( "Tori was physicaly broken by those girls, emotionally raped by those girls",)and the very real threat of worst to come if she said anything .Such courage should not be rewarded in the manner that she has been treated since .Compare that courage to the cowardly actions of these defendants and you wonder why so many people want these people to pay.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:31:44 -0000

To Gomp i\
Thanks for the reply always enjoy your responses to my comments .I took some time to answer.I now have no problem what so ever with the proscecuter tag .mainly because it is accurate. Amy mentioned this to me about a week ago and it does suit what I believe and what I seem to want to accomplish in my comments You mentioned in one of your last post to explain what i meant by harsh ,Was I going back to the life in prison arguments that were prevelent when the assult first happened .My last post to you had nothing to do with my role as proscecuter but your role as the "compassionate therapist".You were right to question that if my role \as
the procecuter was interfereing with showing any compassion.Please do not be offended but you must be careful in your role as well .To me it seems that you want these girls to be better than they may be to be saveable . They may be mean girls who actually have no remorse enjoyed what thay did . and would do it again if the fear of getting caught was taken away . They may be evil. I have not seen alot of evidence that any of these girls are anything but what they have shown us ..As you saw concern with my"they must recieve harsh sentences ".I saw concern that you are looking for reasons to believe in these defendants. I am very wary when society gets this type of billing ..it was used in to keep minoritys subservient(1866 to present)) It is used to inflict viloence on women (certain religious societys ).but always used to blame the victim. I am pretty sure without having met you that this is not what you implied but you still must be careful in wanting all of this to turn out good for everybody.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sat, 03 Jan 2009 22:28:31 -0000

To Gomp
I can sort of understand your logic with Dodge or germany and such . But to be truthful you can follow this logic to far.You keep on talking about that these girls are not evil .What is your definition of evil . To me it would be people who do evil things.we do not know any of these people to know wether they are or not .Mercasdes betrayed Victoria's Friendship and then turned on BH ., Accused of stabbing some one .Tried to run a person off the road with her car ,accused of kidnapping .Accused of helping set up a friend to get assulted ,All before the age of 18 ..The girl who helped kill Matt Siiliman wrote poetry and loved animals . yet she to was involved in something evil .Does this make her evil.Does the fact that someone writes poetry and likes animals make them less likly to do evil or not to be judged as harshly when they do something that most would say is evil. the problem with this is there is no conclusions that could ever be reached . You can strech the logic looking for wether someone is or not . To say that this was a statement or representation of a
disinfanchised youth culture who feel abandonned by society is in my opinion stretching the logic to the point where nothing can ever be decided .You cannot change a culture why try .The indviduals actions cannot be controlled , We all have free will ..There are so many people who are in prison for just going along not being strong enough in character to say no.,This was 6 bullys who imposed thier will on a helpless victim some led some followed ,.This is about evil deeds not evil people .this is about what these 6 people did in that house that night to Victoria . .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:31:04 -0000

Sorry gomp
gota disagree strongly.
Every one of those girls knew right from wrong . It is way to easy to blame society .Its the same tired excuse that has been around forever .You just used Andrew Jackson as an example different society same problem . I believe we are all responsible for our own actions .Society did not beat up Victoria . Six girls beat up Victoria .Six Girls chose to do this with the benifit of free will as thier guide.
Bullying has been around forever it is a problem with every society in all cultures since the beginnig of civilazation .Good people can do bad things .Weak characters can be manipulated,this is why the only defense can be to hold oneself accountable anything else lessens the lessons that need to be learned .In the worst case scenrio It is what the trials of Nuremburg taught us .We cannot say that we were following orders I did this because i was afraid . As soon as we forget this lesson and look elsewhere away from the individual actions do these types of things occur . I don.t know these girls to know if they are nice , evil.or something in between. I am not judging thier persons i am judging thier actions.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:41:53 -0000

I don't know what you guys expect the role of the sherrifs office to be once a case gets past on to the D.A office any remarks made by the sherrifs office is nothing but fodder for the defendants.Look how the investigators all shut up once Casey Anthony (Whom hell has reserved a special place for) was charged
to Amy
looking at my last 2 post to you .you were right and i was wrong, if fighting was all this was about you wouldn't of had the interagation 'especially from BH. As I said in an even earlier post . They staged thier little mock trial and carrried out thier sentence.The fact that BH was so primed to go means to me that her (friends) I'm afraid of you Kayla, and I'm afraid of you Mercades ,made sure she was ripping to go . I would love to know when the rest of the girls joined BH Mercades and April . I would bet the texting back and forth was also to make sure everybody was there . (just guessing there ).

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 12:33:33 -0000

To gomp.
Mikeael Vick should not be let near any animal ever again .BritM should never be aloud near a camera ..Rehabiltation is cetainly needed .I just do not think that it is a repacement for punishment . the Carrot and stick method i think is best . It has never been my point to punish these girls because they were evil, Whaat they did was evil and punishing them for wjhat they did is far better then for what they thought .We cannot change the younger generation but they have to know what will hapen when lines are crossed to this severety , Whether you were stupid enough to get caught or tape your crimes.The news today on cnn was the taped beating of a 15 year old the tape they used was Victoria getting beat. This crime has become the standard to which others will be judged .Compassin and help for the defendants has to be balanced with the need of society to protect itsself and its law abiding citizens .They must be made examples of within the confines of the laws they broke. If any of these girls need to change then programs should be made availabe , If as we say they are not evil then they just have to do thier time ,pay back thier debt and move on.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 08:41:19 -0000

Scott
Besides Brit H, BritM was the only other involved in hitting and the kidnapping and she did pretty much all the camera work . She involved herself in every espect of the assult. Mercades didn't hit Victoria and April was only 14 and was not involved in the trip To CVS. . Those that were 17 have to bear some responsibility(Mercades BritH,BritM)for letting a 14 year old become involved in such Brutality. .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 04:31:07 -0000

To gomp;
Can understand your confusion when i talk about spirituality in one post and harshness in the other .As to this moment I have not seen anything meaningful come from the defendants that tells me they have accepted what they have done. We can all repeat our post on thier excuses .Or worst how they have thier lawyers take shots at Victoria at one time or another.These defendants actions do not come anywhere close to deserving life in prison .My opinion(based on absolutly no legal experience exept Law and order) is what ever the deserved punishment should be is what should be given .They should all get the maxamin time , They gave no mercy or compassion and thier sentence should reflect this . It is hard for me to go from being a proscecuter to judge. .But to be clear on what i would give these girls is as follows .BritH 5 to 6 years. BM 4 to 5 years Mercades and April 3 to 4 years Kayla 6 months .Gomp my question to you is what would you give these people for thier actions . I don't know if i have seen your sentence recomondations .,I have seen what you think is unfair but what do you think is Just(I to can stir the pot) . As far as Christina goes .I told Christina that I would d be saying what i thought in regards to her and Mercades .Since . that time I have foundher question and responses respectful and pertinent to our post .I do not think that i have taken it easy on anybody and as dificult as that had to be for Christina to read .She has always shown repect in her replys . others with not as much at stake have called me out
.This to is very Fair .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 21:58:36 -0000

To Amy V
did not read your last post to me before i posted my replyto the one before .
always in your corner .
Phil

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 21:41:42 -0000

To amy
I do not think we have disagreed.And if we have it is minor .Yes they all had thier agenda and carried it out . Bm and Aprils motivation have become clearer . If You sat down with Mercades and asked her why she turned , I think(don't know ) that she would have a hard time explaining what happened in her mind .Was it 4 dollars ,Was it Jake ,it wasn.t another boy like Kayla's or that she was mad at Victoria like BM and AC.It is very hard to get a read on the why, not on that it was done.I also think BH would find it hard to explain why she acted like she did when there dosen't seem to be anything personal that Victoria did to BH.I think the plan was to fight Victoria I just don't think the 2 boys could know what this meant.Unless one of the other defendants say that they were a lookout besides the yelling they couldnt even know how bad it was till they looked at the tape , then they were cowards and deserve the scorn they have recieved..Hearing the words fight and what acually happened have very little to do with one another . It all went wrong when Victoria screwed them all by not fighting back How bad and how far they planned to go I do not think was decided . that became the BritH show .And everybody jumped in with eyes wide open and deserve the harshest sentence because of it.You don't have to excuse yourself for saying they could have cared less how much harm and humiliation they inflicted because they absolutly did not care how much harm and humiliation they inflicted and made sure it was as bad as they could make it. .
You know Amy what i think about thier remorse
and excuses so no differing of opinions there .
I do not think this takes away from what most of us agree was a planned attack . They were there to to punish Victoria how much was decided before hand does not really matter . They did what they were there for .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 20:55:13 -0000

You guys could be right .I would still like to know the dates of the charges being laid agaist Mercades and when Mercades asked for Victoira to move in.Victoria herself said she didn,t quite understand the reasoning behind the attack.I think she was guessing trying to understand Mercades betrayal. The problem is again with Mercades saying she was afraid of BritH .If she was that upset with Victoria for not helping then I do not think she would have been that eager to have Victoria move in. .the million dollar question always seems to be why did Mercades turn on Victoria. If what you all are saying is true this actually supports my earier claim that Mercades was one of the ring leaders.
someone gathered all these people together who else could it have been probally not BH. either kayla or Mercades..Mercades has the past accusations against her for this type of manipulation.I am just not sure how much Victoria not helping break-up Jake from girlfriend really had to do with this case except to point out what Mercades is capable of and why BH didn't ask Mercades to hit Victoria when she almost demanded that everyone else take thier turn.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 18:50:08 -0000

To Scott
Seems alot of time passed between the attempted break-up To Mercades first charges and the assult on Victoria. I do not think there will ever be a logical reason to explain the assult. i think the Defendants are at a loss themselves (excluding April and BritM they seemed to know what they wanted . I do not know if Bh and Mercades understands why they did what they did and for Mercades why she betrayed victoria...I think these 2 are probally having the hardest time with this .Just guessing
certainly no proof.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 12:55:31 -0000

To AmyV
I agree again it is hard for us to respond to one another ..I have shared things here with friends i do not know in a way that friends i do know have not seen . I do not know if this is good or bad but the fact that some one like you agrees with me so much i will take as huge compliment .
I just don't know what the role of the 2 boys was. I do think they knew something was going to happen .I do not think the girls even knew how bad this was going to get .Even being outside or dropping by later was probally not enough to charge them . Without direct testimony from one of the girls saying they were lookouts, Victoria's statements are only opinions. If as a teenager i heard that we are going to fight Victoria . I probally wouldn't have done much and as far as viewing the tape lots of us have done that .Of couse what happened wasn't a fight but if anything the 2 boys probally thought a fight was what was going to happen 'Cara is a whole different story she was in the room ..

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 12:28:29 -0000

To Gomp.
Can you imagine BritM or Mercades explaing thier role not jusy BH .And if the daughter is in thier teens and are being bullied in any way the turmoil for both mother and daughter or son will be immense .Bad seeds planted have a way of multipling ,if however thier response to thier children was can you not see how wrong i was Can you not see the price that Victoria and I have paid . Then good seeds replace the bad . .Thier remose will have to be genuine .If not thier children will see through thier excuses much easier then we do

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 12:07:48 -0000

I know AmyV And myself have consistenly called for retribution from these defendants . It is easy to see that we will always put the victim ahead of the defendants. We both want a strong message sent on what will happen to anybody that wants to do something similar.I find it very hard to show and feel compassion for the.defendants. The rage and hatred of thier actions only allow for me to
travel so far down this road. You look at what Natasha Dahn did 'At her sentenceing she said .I totally screwed my friend Not that others did as well or that others did worse . She did totally screw her friend .For those who counted Victoria thier friend before that day . It is important to remember this was not only Mercades. You also totally screwd over your friend mayby for life. Where does one turn to move on. The law will make it very clear on what it expects. There will be tough conditions applied to whatever sentence is given .(One i know I will not be happy with . I want jail time and lots of it).They must somehow accept that they totally screwd over thier friend for nothing that really mattered .When they do this .If tomorrow they all said we totally screwed over our friend and we don.t know if we can ever be forgiven.
then i hope that I would be able to join those that call for compassion and mercy for the defendants . I doubt i will be put to the test .And that just sucks.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 11:01:59 -0000

P.S.
again Scott would have summed all that up in 2 paragraphs tops.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 10:49:21 -0000

To Gomp
Lakeland is a small place and the world is a big place .If Victoria stays in Lakeland or Mulberry.(Don't really know the area) even in spirit,then this will haunt her more than it should. as she moves further away even if its Tampa or Orlando , Miami .People who recognise her would be in the most part supportive and helpful . if she can only realise what a blessing this could be.I believe (don't know) that as soon as Victoria moved away she started to improved .. The exact oppisite will happen with the defendants .The further they move from the area the less support and more condemation they will recieve (mayby a life sentence in itself)The ones who did this are the ones to most worry about ,If they cannot release thier hate they cannot realises thier true role in this and will always go through life looking over thier shoulder or thinking thier friends will betray them..Or they just don't care and we all no what a life of just not caring brings .this is truly an empty existence. . I know the day my son was born was a day of revelations for me .The way i saw everything past and present shifted.. Who knows if and when it will happen for the six that were in the room. But if i know anything is that it matters greatly that these 6 finds it in themselves to face what they were even if it was just for that day..How will BritH explain to her daughter what she did .Much easier to do if you have faced your demons and to some extent accepted and conqured them.This event will always matter to those involved .If Victoria sees herself as a victim of betrayal as the focal point of what she is then it will take much longer to heal.If she sees herself as AmyV ,Gomp Scott and Phil and countless others sees her . A very brave person who in a crises showed the finest of character then the sky is the limit.this does not have to be the defining point in Victoria's
life for her to be happy. i think it has to be the defining point for the other six in the rm .These 6 have the much tougher road. As they should have for what they have done.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 05:31:22 -0000

Gomp Says;

"But here is the problem. Anyone who thinks it is a light matter to introduce spirituality into the picture, or that it is “off topic” is missing the point."

Missing the point are you kidding this is the point!If the defendants had it this never would of happened
this is exatley what has been missing from the very beginning.If and when these defendants get this they will take responsobility for what they did regardless of sentence
. Spirituality. will arm the defendants with the tools to be able to move forward. to hold your head up high , To be able to explain to thier own daughter what happened.and the most important thing is to be able to eventually forgive themselves. Of course we are both talking real spirituality.Not the sentence saving time reducing crap we have been hearing.
With Victoria .i hope it will be easier.The teens that hate her will become adults .Those hatreds will disappear with time.Is there anyone of us that still has hatred for those we knew as teenagers. Although there is the embarrasment of the video. Fewer 17 year olds have the support or admiration and affection outside of Lakeland that Victoria has. If she also finds "spirituality" then this can turn this tradgedy into something else.I truly hope she makes wiser choices .So Gomp welcome back and Happy New Year .because
spiritualiy is always needed ,even if it is here on this fourm.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:56:32 -0000

thanks Scott
Happy New Year

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:41:17 -0000

To Amy '
a very happy New year to you and all you love;It has been a pleasure to somewhat get to know you through posting our opinions . I will say a special prayer for your father as i remember mine this New year.
Again going to my earlier post .I would like to know what the girls comments were as they watched the video right afterwards . There were certainly witnesses who would have been able to say if any remorse was shown . And if there was any you think it would have been mentioned ,But every one is staying quiet .why is this .They would have talked not ony about what they did but also why they did it and how they felt about it.
Kayla saying she would have opened the door for Victoria if she hadn't been so afraid is such a joke . Mercades being to afraid to stop friends she invited in is just as ridiculos .. It is hard for me to show compassion for the defandant when at every turn when given the opurtunity they have deflected thier blame . I would rather hear I don't understand why i did this or didn't do this as to expext anyone to believe I was afraid when the evidence proves other wise.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:32:13 -0000

To Christina
thanks again for the response .I hope
the one you regret sending was not one of mine.Its not so much the understanding of what was sent . unless i have a clear understanding of actuall punishments the legal terms do not help me form an opinion on what i think is fair ,harsh or linient..As far as the lawsuit goes knowledge is indeed power and if you have info i do not than I will say as always my arguments can only be based on the conclusions i reach with the info i have..
Happy New year

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 09:59:04 -0000

To Scott
The lawsuit can't really have much to do with the delays .It is just hard for me to believe that the feelings of the sherrif of Polk County matters to the FSO .Nothing would ever get proscecuted if lawsuits by defendants and thier families mattered.The fact that these attornys all know one another is more probable or the state or the defandants has not got terms that are acceptable. I do not think BritH would get offered something less if Christina dropped the lawsuit. If Mercades re-arrest and high bail had anything to so with Judd then the state is not afraid of the lawsuit.If it dosen't then they are even less afraid of the lawsuit. if it was a class action suit with all the defendants and thier families attached to the lawsuit instead of just Christina than mayby this would have an effect on the proscecution.As it stands Christina stands alone and unless the other families come on board .The lawsuit should not effect proscecutions case.Also if the other families do not come on board with the lawsuit Christina will not get a favourable ruiling.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 08:53:56 -0000

To Amy
you can have the lead chair.
Your post have been great .The fact that some here who certainly have my respect commenting at different times how you and i are doing a good job as proscecuters tell me how easy this would be to proscecute if the will were there ..The defense can't take a chance of putting the defendants on the stand and flimsy excuses would get battered more than discrepencies in statements .I also think the judge has to get controll over both the defense and state .There is obviously dispute over the plea deal. Setting a trial date in the near future would forces the defandants to either accept responsibility or have the responsibility imposed by the courts.
I think a judgement by judge and jury would serve justice better than a plea deal. I would love to see its "just 2 black eyes defense" argued in court .That would would be a disaster for the defense because it is not even close to the enormity of what has happened .If a plea deal can save Victoria futher suffering and yet deal appropriatly with the crimes committed i would support that .This is highly unlikly because those involved are always pointing thier guilty fingers at some one else,and do not seem to be ready to accept the guilt of thier own actions as well as thier group effort.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 13:58:57 -0000

To Amy
It dosen't matter what angle you look at this case it looks bad for the defendants .you can pick and chose which evidence points to thier over all guilt .from the text . to the gathering of enemies(friends), to the tape and to the gathering to watch the tape.
I have not heard from anybody who watched that tape at the friends house stating that when the girls saw themselves doing this showed any kind of remorse. Bh wanted a copy . No matter what kayla says . she didn't say no to the request..The remose was in getting caught .if they were not sorry for what they did after seeing it for themselves then any remorse is for thier own suffering and nothing to do with Victoia's suffering.They are of course sorry for what they have put thier families through .not so sorry for wht thay did .How could they watch that tape and not see what everyone else saw even those who do not want harsh sentences agree on what we saw on this tape.How could they watch themselves and not say "Oh my God what have we just done!". The fact that they did not speak even after seeing on tape what they did speaks for thier character and just adds to the debt to be paid. I did contact Christina and I will not comment on the specifics . The information I was given was not enough for me to understand what was actually being offered , without any specifics as far punishments go so until i see that Its hard to give any opinions.This in no way means that Christina was not forthcoming in my requst for information.If you were to trust what i feel.I haven,t heard any thing that has me drasticly changing my opinion of a plea deal with these defendants..the state should be trying to get a strong sentence attached to these girls .the proof is overwhelming and the proscecuter should start acting like he has all the cards.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:05:48 -0000

to Christina
I have sent you my e-mail
please look for it
Phil

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 07:14:26 -0000

Well said Scott.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:17:47 -0000

To Amy
All repeated sarcasim aside .Although sometimes sarcasm can make a point that 3 paragraphs of logic can't.
Gregs said it best .this case is a trainwreck.No matter where you look there we are not seeing alot of deceny displayed.To the parents of these defendants I do not think you can be held accountable for the assult .Good parents can have kids that do bad things.You should be held resonsible for the manner your daughter's lawyers have conducted
thier defense on your daughter behalf .To agrresivly go after Victoiria after what your daughters did is no less rehensible because it is done leaglly.Its just a continuation of the attack on Victoria's Character to justify what your daughters did.The ecaxct same thing your daughters did .they also grilled Victoria on her Character to justify the beating .Nice lesson to teach your children.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:58:15 -0000

You guys are being way to hard .
Didn.t i mention the pepsi they bought her .What about the cell phone thay finally let her use .My god they dropped her off after thier little get together .Come on Amy and Scott you guys obviously do not understand about friendship and being nice .
I'm sorry they didn,t buy Victoria a coke but i am sure they were doing what they thought was best
Right !

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:22:38 -0000

The only remorse these girls have shown is the remorse of getting caught . They thought they had broken Victoria ,So sure they were in thier violence .They must have been shocked when the law became involved.The finger pointing at thier co-conspiriters shows the total lack of class and remorse and in the long will follow them like the crimes they have been charged with.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:36:45 -0000

They will not likley get my respect back,because hopefully they won't be in the news again for me to even hear about them
unless they do some sort of public thing with victoria . If that were the case i would like to see it when they all become adults (hopefully law abiding).Some of these girls are still stuck in teenage aingst years. this and thier lawyers will get in the way of anything meaningful taking place

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 22:55:52 -0000

Hi Amy
In most trials the defandant does not take the stand .This usually makes it harder to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. .The defense can raise all the points it wants in cross examination of the states witness without putting an unsympatetic defandant on the stand.In regarde to Christinsa lawsuit .I ussualy don't comment on it unless asked .If I take the lawsuit out of the equation than Its easier for Chistina and me to comment back and forth .To comment on the lawsuit is to comment on the motives of the people involved and that to me means persoal comments (Thats my choice).Christina does not have to like Victoria and if she believes what Mercades is telling her (and she is her mother) then she would have to believe Victoria is lying .Take the drive To CVS Mercades says that Victoria asked for a ride (Please see my post dec 27 )
Victoria says she was forced in .One of these girls is lying..For those who are still reading can you guess who i think it is .
My only concern with Christina is that while blogging here that she does not
bash Victoria . I will never support Christina's lawsuit .and who knows Amy with all the communicatinn between Christina and this website you mayby called as a witness lol!
now that would be karma

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 22:02:41 -0000

To Scott and Gomp
It may be true that kayla was in over her head a small fry swiming with the sharks so to speak...You could argue that she played a smaller part than the rest and i would agree .That being said she has not changed her M.O. sicnse this began .She hid behind BritH's viloence to let her abuse Victoria in safty .Now she hides behind BrittH again this time pleading she was afraid .She cannot even take resonsibility for her smaller role in this.
I think its bad edicate to capitaize your word sort of like shouting but its more just to make a point
ALL THESE GIRLS WANT TO APOLIGIZE TO VICTORIA JUST NOT FOR WHAT THEY DID
.didn't mean to offend but any apology that has these silly excuses attached just doesn't mean anything .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:44:17 -0000

Yeah but don't forget guys they bought her a pepsi !
thats gota count for something
Right!

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:26:43 -0000

To Amy
If they get a fair punishment then the
accused will have a better chance of
fitting back in to society .i am not even talking about phyiscal harm '
if i met any of these girls i don't know that I wouldn't let them know what i thought about thier actions and the slap on the wrist they got ..If all they get is 6 months house arrest I won't have alot of sympathy it does follow them .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:43:58 -0000

To AmyV
With regaurds to Victoria asking for a ride to CV' or whatever the store was .Can you imangine these people just beat the holy crap out of you .They have filmed it and you are going to ask them to drop you off . Are you kidding me. Can you think of any concievable ,logicall explanation why Victoria would want to get in a car with Mecades driving and Brit H and Brit M sitting behind you . No Way! under no circumstances would ,Victoria choose to remain in thier controll .Especially as she has stated that she thought she was going to die . I think she would have rather walked.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:18:00 -0000

To Scott
It always comes down to the combination of the physical and the the manner they broke Victoria that
evening .Nothing is worse to watch then having someons spirit broken on camera for the enjoyment of those that did the deed.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:03:49 -0000

I have always said that to much weght has aways been given to the small discrepencys that have arisen when the end result of thier actions are so ridicously clear.What more would any proscecuter need to get whatever terms they wanted .Why would the defense risk going to trial. The only exception where these discrepencys matter would be the kidnaping charge .This cannot be proven by the video and the seriousness of the charges reqire proof beyond a reasonable doubt. .Even so they would probally get a conviction agaist some of them on that charge as well .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 22:32:59 -0000

To Amy
I do not understand the proscecution at all in this .You can see after Victoria's GMA interview that the
sentiment is still with Victoria .No embellishment of the facts are nessacary .How they could be contemplating a slap on the wrist agreement for such a vicious assult is beyond my understanding.I am not so much against a plea agreement if it saves the victim the pain of reliving this in a trial format . But the proscecution has seemed to have lost the will to do thier duty.
Any "lying" seems to be on small details only and nothing that should stop any convictions were the state were actually interested in proscecuting this case .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 20:57:54 -0000

Amy Said
Some argue April’s punches were not meant to harm. I absolutely disagree. As, I am quite sure the victim who felt the force of these punches would agree. Would deadly force against April be justifiable. I know its a terrible scenario. However, one that should be considered. Would the victim herself have faced charges?

i do not think deadly force would have been called for after April's first attack ,as soon as Brit H and everybody else joined in in thier own unique way all bets were off . As soon as she felt in fear for her life She could have resonded as she wished .they were cowards if they thought there was a chance of an even break it wouldn't have happened thats why there was 6 against 1

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:18:29 -0000

Scott
Why go through the trouble to not
charge Cara in exchange for testimony if you are using the added leverage for a six month house arrest plea deal . You can get that with out Cara's testimony .She deserves something even if its probation.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 00:26:35 -0000

For all of the above, a,b,c,and d
It is still a train wreck .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 25 Dec 2008 23:35:08 -0000

Gomp Says
Your analogy of the train wreck seems appropriate,
Apppropriate!
That was a great anlogy .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 25 Dec 2008 21:43:27 -0000

To Amy
First of all Merry Christmas to you and your family.Hope it was a great one.i feel the same way its more important to comment longer to diifering opinions then those that so closeley matches our own.It is a real regret that I did not jump into the discussion earlier . .I think we are here for the same thing .We both still after all this time cannot watch those tapes without getting that real sick feeling in our stomachs. Then comes the anger and the outlet (for me ) is to seek revenge for what i have just watched .{This is what I feel everytime i have watched it .} The outrage against girls was like nothing i have ever seen .An aweful lot of people wanted to inflict real harm against these defandants .
The only thing that protected these people were the laws that they so calously ignored .How stiff of a penalty would these girls want to impose to insure there own safty against people who ignore these laws .Six months house arrest .I don't think so.
Dwindleing interest in any thing like this is a normal occurance . If there were a trial that would all change.
I do not understand the D. A.
Not insisting for stronger retrubution.
I feel they are totally ignoring the courts will that they be charged as adults .
The reason i apoligised to Christina is not so much for wrighting it , I understand why she didn't like the "Rhyme". Its always a fine line between clever and insulting.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 19:57:20 -0000

Gomp
Hope you are not serious about a mock trial I tend to be gullable at the best of times

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 19:19:11 -0000

Sorry Christina . Didn't mean to offend they were calling me the prosecuter and I had a little fun with it and being a bit serious at the same time,
Merry Christmas

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:53:46 -0000

Thanks Guys
Merry Christmas

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 20:39:37 -0000

All Markist are worldly, it can't be helped .When I was younger and i still knew everything .I admired and still do the person like yourself and GregS who could talk on these deep subjects and even when i was much younger i could usually hold my own.,. . .I have studied history and can probally hold my own with most people. Every generation believes that they are facing the worst that has ever been.
And every Generation can blame the previous one for the mess they got left.It always comes down to the size of your heart and very rarely to the size of your brain.This is why anybody can do amazings things.The song Amazing Grace is about a former traficer in slaves who realized what he had done . He went from someone who created evil to someone who inspired goodness . These defendants also created evil but they do not have to come near as
far .Even as bad as Brit M was or even as bad we may feel about Mercades betrayal it does not compare to the true atrocities that have and are being commited .This does not change what I feel about the crime s commited or the punishment i would seek for these girls. But Greg .Amy and Phil .Do not give up on these girls or the society they live in . They may all do amazing things .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:06:39 -0000

To GregS and anybody else who may be interested.It seems everyone is in
a deep mood these last days trying to make sense out of what appears to be a mess, To Greg ,it has never been easy . When my parents talk about the simpler times they forget that people of colour were not aloud in the same restaurents . Or women could
not make thier own way and dream of better things . I worked for a jewish boss who when he was 19 went into a hotel that read NO Jews Or Dogs . The good old days were not so good for him and he had his own war to fight .As do all people who find themselves oppressed ... Greg You mentioned that the fact that you having to fight for a good life is not fair . i see this word used so much .Its not fair, you are not being fair ,why are they not being fair. Fair is a word used to compare . So fairness itself is fleeting at best . Electronica and I are so far apart on what is fair that you could never build a consenus on anything if fairness is your goal ' it is too arbitrary. Many people in the Middle East would say that it would be fair to kill every American alive today. Greg , Life is a battle .it always has been and always will .It is thruogh these times of conlict that we grow and are given the oppurtunity to be bettet because of it . It is not fighting these battles that is the crime . White people sat around and did nothing while thier brothers and sisters of colour were butalized and humiliated and my parents generation did nothing ,nothing at all . Does this sound familiar when you look what happened in Lakeland this year. This is nothing knew nor is the battle that must be fought. You do not have to be Ghandi or Jesus or Confusious . You do have look for the good things in life and they are everywhere 'except in the news . For every horible story you here do not forget there are a thousand more good ones that are not news worthy. you should go to the park and watch A father with his kids .You should talk to all the people that spend there lives trying to help the homeless so you can balance this against the far fewer who would show them Harm..These defendants also now have thier own battle to face and it is every bit as improtant that they win it as it is for the rest of us .Good luck Greg in your wars . You do not have to change the world but if we all took resonsibility for our own it probally would not be nessacary.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 04:04:29 -0000

To AmyV
We muat be the dream team because dreaming is the only way these defendants get what they deserve
But remember .
IF THE TAPE MADE YOU SICK YOU MUST CONVICT

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:59:07 -0000

To gomp yoy break me up
you are still the only person i am sure between This blog
The ledger and topix who has used dinosaures to make thier point with this case .
You are indeed to worldly for this pros/persecutors to fool
lots of respect for you Mr Gompertz
even if you are stiring the pot.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:26:01 -0000

To AmyV
Now we are proscecuters . Are you lead chair or am I.You have been on this site much longer than i, Just make sure we are being fair .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:14:57 -0000

Scott you said to me 2 days ago
" I don’t think Hassall, Mayes or Nichols should face the same charges and amount of jail time as Hardcastle and Cooper .
Myself i would put BritM with April but behind BM.With all the recording she did she was way more involved than the others after the assult started . Also being 17 to Aprils 14 and Kayla,s 15 also has to be considered .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:51:01 -0000

To AmyV
You said in an earlier post that you would defend me but you didn't think it would be nessecary. Really apreciate the support from you in your blog tonight ..It meant alot
Gomp
"It’s just that you are playing the role of a prosecuting attorney, and doing a good job at it",while I don’t want to be any kind of attorney.

Great read and pointing out our different approach I was just pleased that you said i was doing a good job.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:12:54 -0000

Electronica
I cannot help the fact that you do not think it was planned .I have given you my reasons and you disagree . I think many more people would agree that this was planned . So far Scott AmyV , Gomp have also said that in some way or another there was some sort of plan. and So when you say
"its just not true they lured her not true they planned all this not true they all agreed with it. just isnt the truth."
you are the one ignoring loads of evidence because it does not fit in with your views ,
Who ever said "open the door and let her run away should have opened the door and let her run away" but they did not .Just empty words . You seem to give more credit to one nice thing said when there was no action to back it up and dismiss out of hand all the truley mean stuff ..You always say that you think they should be punished but always side on the least ammount of punishishment possible.Then you say that you are not sure if i hate Mercades the same thing you have accused AmyV of because she made alot of the same points i have . , I will not spend any more time trying to convince you of my Character . And where in any statment that i made did i say i knew what Cara was thinking .and then to say i said its wrong to say who did what.Not only do i not know what tapes you have been watching but i do not know whos 's comments you have been reading

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:23:50 -0000

I idnt think the first message got sent please ignore first one
sorry

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:17:28 -0000

To Gomp . It is hard for me to take this case and look at it in the more worldly view that you have . I tend to be more direct in my causes and effects arguments .
Lets just look at another example in relation to the charges. Forceable Confinement.
There is no doubt that BH,Is the one that locked the door ./Victoria really must of known at this point she was in serious trouble. Even though BH did the locking all the rest of the girls in the rm took advantage of that crime . They had her trapped now she was going nowhere until they (not just Bh) were finished with her .they can now dispense thier justice at thier liesure . Again they all had thier part in either hitting or the humilitaing or encouraging those that did .there was so much shared invovement in this assult .It is only to the defenses advantage to take it down to the individual actions Everybodys interest except BtitH and the little thing called justice .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:56:05 -0000

To Gomp . It is hard for me to take this case and look at it in the more worldly view that you have . I tend to be more direct in my causes and effects arguments .
Lets just look at another exaample in relation to the charges. Forceable Confinement.
There is no doubt that BH,Is the one that locked the door ./Victoria really must of known at this point she was in serious trouble. Even though BH did the locking all the rest of the girls in the rm took advantage of the crime . They had her trapped now they can dispense thier justice at thier liesure . Again thy all had thier part in either hitting or the humilitaing or encouraging those that did .there was so much shared invovement in this assult .It is only to the defenses advantage to take it down to the individual actions Everybodys interest except BtitH and the little thing called justice .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 07:22:59 -0000

sorry Scott
not any good at that short thing you do.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 07:16:03 -0000

To Scot
We have not exchanged alot of views so I'm glad to have you respond.

To answer yours and Christin'a question . Of course not .There is no legal or moral reasoning that can put Mercades or kayla in the same light as BM
BritM descided the level of brutality inflicted and therefore should receive the stiffest sentence . My point had nothing to do with any sentence .So lets assume that the plea agrrement has already been reached . ,.
.Its pretty much established that Victoria Did not have A problem with BH . On the tape you hear Victoria pleading this very thing(not saying 'pleading.I say this because you can never forget the mood of the rm when these things were being said.)If BH was not punishing Victoiria for wrong doing against herself then for Who's wrong doings was Victoria being punished . . Brit H beat Victoria for the alleged wrong doings against the other girls in the Rm.And these girls allowed BH to do this
One thing was very clear to me pre planned or not . This was a trial . Victoria was detained and held accoutable for her actions .They had acuusers and accusatins .They were the judge and jury and they found her guilty "You Brought this on yourself Honey". Brit H beat Victoria for the alleged wrong doings
against the other girls in the Rm. And Everyone of them let her do this in there name . For those who want proof It is on the tape . BM Ask Victoria why she dosen't like this person or that person ,after every wrong resonse she is hit for not liking that person.After one of Victoria' Responses one of the jury yells wrong answer , another hit follows .BH carried out the will of the girls in the rm . That includes Cara Murphy and she should be there to answer for her actions and words
Whatever the punishment given they should be held accountable for this because at the very heart of it this is what happened .What ever the sentence this is what they dersreve to be punished for .With all due respect Christina not just for being a bad friend.
This is what i meant when i said "
They have to be punished for what they did colectively as well as what they
did individually . They are more guilty than the sum of thier indivual actions .”

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:22:59 -0000

ToGomp
And i am worried tht they will try rehabilitation instead of punishment . Don't forget the last reliable rumour was 6 months house arrest ,even BM
.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:56:25 -0000

Big p.s To Electronica
Really loved the return Humour I laughed so hard and Don.t Worry Electronica/Mercades /Utubedetective/ Now that i know who you really are ,your secret is safe with me you however you will no longer be allowed on the jury.
Signed Utubecommenter formerly known as Utubeblogger

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:11:27 -0000

To Electronica
I really appreciate the apology.
No i meant most people . If I meant you ,I would have said you ,As you can tell I tend to say what i mean. You have stated many things based on your opinions i have commented back with equal enthusiam and what I think is thoughtfullnes .My replies to your comments i have felt have been always respectful . .I am not asking for you to respond any differently then you wish to do so . Calling me or my ideas stupid or saying I am cruel is your choice but I will probally not respond directly to you in return but make my comments about your views more generic. Again I truly am apprecitive for what you bring to the discussions we have here .
Merry Christmas

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:13:57 -0000

To Christina
I have read your reqeust quite a few times in regards to your lawsuit You know pretty much my views. .I can try to give you another response if you would like but you know by now I say what I think and feel .. It would be hard for me to comment without talking personal opinions as well as legal.
If you still like to me to resond . I will
if not not offense taken.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 08:40:40 -0000

To Gomp
with you it always comes down to the martial arts (lol)

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:04:53 -0000

Amy hope you agree with me including your name in the above post . I think this has been some of what we were trying to say Sorry if you were offended .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:38:41 -0000

To Gomp
Thank you for your comments .
This is a good place to share opinions ,I have had some of my opinions very harshly critisized as of late , i think thats a great thing .They should be .I am not as concerned with the punishments as much now .I think that has already been decided .I am a bit suprised thy have't tried to bury it in the C Anthony case.
Mine and Amy's concern is that they get punished for what happened .
We hear how a pepsi was bought , A cell phone was given {an hour after it was asked for } ,We hear how you cant tell who really said hurt her or who sent what text or which one was holding the phone when this message was sent . Which on was a little nicer .All these little nuances are allowing these girls to To escape thier responsibility and reduce thier guilt because "I wasn't quite as bad as that one" .Punish them for the brutality and humiliation that they willingly and ruthlessly inflicted on Victoia .Because the real truth is Whoever didn't hit , humiliated and encouraged those that did one time or another.If You were not holding the camera you were adjusting the lighting for those that did . If you didn't lock the door you allowed it to stay locked .Remember the first time you saw the tape the helplessness we felt was a miniscule compared to what Victoria went though .They have to be punished for what they did colectively as well as what they
did individually . They are more guilty than the sum of thier indivual actions .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:12:20 -0000

Sorry did not know first one got sent
My bad

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:09:15 -0000

To Gomp
you were saying just a short time ago that we do not need any type of blog police to tell us what we can say.
After this i am not so sure.
I agree with you Trench did the right thing
I guess that means i can' be UtubeBlogger any more .
oh well.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:55:13 -0000

To Gomp
you mentioned that we didn't need Nazi police deciding what was appropriate or not ,After this I am not so sure .
Trench certainly did the right thing
That being said I sure would like that frame around my comments

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:43:24 -0000

To Scott
how do you manage to make good points in less than a paragraph it takes me a whole page just to get my greeting in

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:08:46 -0000

Christina .When i first came on this bolg 'and you defended Mercades I was so mad .I lashed out at you because you were as close as i could get to the defendants and I really wanted to lash out at them . So when i objected to a point you made it had an edge big time .Who were you to defend these people ..I have said to you twice now that i do not know if being on this blog is good for you . it is good for us but mayby not good for you .I truely do not know yours and Roberts history but why bother returning any of his replys .I hope you always speak what you feel I know I will and i hope that you will allow that from me as well . .I am now enjoying more our debates as i do with Gomp and others . Of couses I still do not wish you well in your law suit . .Once i truley held you in disdain now i wish you only the best. A car should never stop for a barking dog. If you are sure in what you believe the rest of it is doen't matter.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:37:12 -0000

Christina . I expect you to believe what Mercades told in regards to all things not on the tape or what she was thinking at the time ,after all you are her mother . Just because she told you her version does not make it the truth . or just because you say that is what happened that i should believe it . I understand the grey area when we are guessing or what this phrase meant or who really said this and it could mean this , But when the victim clearly state that this is whaat happened then i don't understand why lately. most peoples slant have been to lessen the responsibility of everyone but Brit H. Christina you are her mother i do not include you in this in anway . I am not interested in trying to convince you that you are wrong but I will chalange points from you the same way as i do others .
P.s
I really liked your last comment to me about Victoria .I would have thought you would have wished other things and it was refreshing to hear differently considering what this has cost your family .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:59:24 -0000

Robert 'You seem to get very volitile when something dosen't go your way especially where it concerns Christina .You seem to be attacking more and more people in an unhealthy way . Are you sure this Subject is a healthy endevour for you . First you said i may not be talking to the real Christina . Now Electronica is Utubedetective,who's secret goal is to convice me and others not to want any punishment
for the defendants And we shouldn't attack Christina but you do .
Just to let everybody Know I am not Phil , I shall now be refered to as
UtubeBlogger . My secret misson is to convince everybody to really want harsh sentences ,ruin any pleas deals get us all on the jury and i am the arch enemy of Utubedetective,,

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:41:32 -0000

Amyv
I just loved your last 3 post welcome back . That was the same attitude and conviction that you used to use agree 100%
It can get very frustrating reading these blogs , To me every reason that can get thought of to take blame away from these girls has been used . it dosen.t matter what the victim says , Was any one else in the room besides BritH and BritM .i know April made a small apperance and wasn't really trying to hurt her then the all drove her to a place of her choice and bought her a pepsi. If it wasn't for that scary Brit H none of this would of happened .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 04:02:58 -0000

friends cutting deal against friends.Friends don't do that sort of things to one another
right Victoria !

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:19:35 -0000

Yeah Mike

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:43:31 -0000

Gomp
if we give the defendants proper puishment for thier crimes then how sorry they are is only important to those directly involved .The defendants and thier families .the victms and thier familiee. What ever the sentence it will probally be heavy in probation so we will see if any lessons have been learned.
Again Amyv
so nice to have you in my corner so to speak.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:18:27 -0000

With regards to the kidnapping charge . It to me is a simple question . Did Victoria have a choice of getting in the car . in her own statement Victtoria says that I don.t want to you will just hit me again.She was told no thats over now and you have learned your lesson (BH) i believe. Please do not forget that at his point she was a truley submissive person.She puts her hands down by her side and lets herself to get photgraphed . To record the damage that they were all so proud of All her bravado has been beaten out of her .Again according to the victim . She didn't have a choice but to get in the car .If you belive the victim's statement this is Kidnapping . Also during this trip my personal favorite 'she is made to aploigize and then threatened with more viloence if she reports it.Mercades should be given some credit for giving her a phone but that drive was a continuatin of the assult . more crimes piles on more crimes .Here is a bit of hypothetical. What do you think would have happened to Victoria if these girls found out she had planned to go to the police and reached her first.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:05:24 -0000

My advise to all 5 of these girls is after it is over and after sentences are served move on .This to me is the only way . They do not have to become spoksepeople for all that ails the teenage world. They need to heal and have a life . I am sure every one of them will not need a daily reminder of what thay did ,now that would be a life sentence. For us here are so immersed in the case We would probally follow it . Even if Brit M or Brit H do not feel as sorry as we would like them to be . After the sentence are complete they just have to stay out of trouble with the law .I am sure there families have heard the name Victoria Lindsay enough to last a while am i right Christina .I am sure you have wished that Victoria was never allowed to stay in your Mom's house .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:46:14 -0000

To Gomp
Always enjoy your responses they always make me think .The last blog I sent you ,i was really hoping you would not get upset .I nearly didn't send it and re-read it quite a few times before i did ..There is nothing at all wrong about caring for anybody at any time . Your habit of making good points is directly interfering with me thinking I am right all the time . so for the sake of my inflated ego please stop (lol).
As for My comments to Robert Re his Brit M comments . .About 2 weeks ago as you know I lit into Christina . I have aploagised and she accepted. the only reason i bring this up is if I had not i probally wouldn,t have addressed qustions directly at her after saying what i did . Robert compared me and AmyV (probally more her to BritM) than ask me a question .i politly as possible ask him if he still thought that way .
When I disagreed with you on objectivity
thier was no persoal nme calling attached to it . Again thanks for your response to that blog.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:45:46 -0000

To Christina .
i always find it the hardest answering your questions. I hate the fact that when i wright something about Merades that you will be reading it ,
If you keep asking me qustions I will answer but that means again i am again talking about Mercades. For one thing you don't have to walk on eggshells if you feel i am being unfair or stupid then feel free to call me out as you can see you would not be the only one .You are aloud to show your fustration and anger the same way as the rest of us . I think we are beyond the name calling stage . Thank you again for accepting my aplology.
To answer your question
No not at all as far as any type of vigil anti justice.Never not a bit . As you can see I feel very strongly in what I feel Mercades role in this is . What ever the plea agreement or whatever the sentence that is what the punishment will be . I will probally be very angry and yell that its not enough but that is the system .No-one has the right to impose anything else .I will say this with all sincerity . I think BritH Brit M and April Acted legaly worse than Mercades and that Mercades acted Morally worse than the others .and sentences should reflect that '
After all the defendants have paid there price I hope they forgive themselves and have as normal of a life as these events will allow them

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:18:28 -0000

To AmyV just a quick shout out to you
hard to comment back to you when we do agree so often thanks for the nice words fom earlier it did seem like we were outnunbered . That being said like the way things are going .lots of great comments .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:47:08 -0000

To Robert .
When I first posted here I probally upset a few people
Gomp's" eveyone shows thiers spots "
comment certainly made me think about how and what i was saying. as did Eltronics'a questioning wether i was being cruel for recommending stiff penaltys . Your comments on some of us being the same as BritM
still bothers me deeply . If that is your point of reference it will be hard for me to take you seriously . Keep on posting don.t apoligise for anything you do not feel you have to . Keep on expressing your opinions but after reading all we have to say and the way we really try to let each other express our views do you still wish to be on record with that statement. .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 04:42:21 -0000

Gomp says
Why do I have this feeling of caring about someone I haven’t met?

Because you feel this way it has to affect your objectivity in regards to Mercades.You stated to me in a post
Dec 14"
But you are right that legally she may be held responsible on technical grounds where her state of mind is less important than the fact of her physical presence, in her own residence, and i think that is one point Robert Stevens is making and for her sake I hope her lawyer is competent."
I hope her lawyer is not competent if this means Mercades or any of the defendants do not pay for what the legally resonsible for. I do not Know or expect to ever know Victoria .I can only care for her in regards for the suffering from the assult . That is only a little bit of her life .I show rage and disdain at the defendants ,But again only for the assult . This to is a small snippet of each of thier lives .
One thing Christina and AmyV says that Mercades should be given some credit for the warning this is correct and I have not done this. though i say when she brings the warning up after April's assult the scorn in her voice directed at Victoria takes away from the warning . Where was the compassion for her friend .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:28:09 -0000

Sorry Gomp
Why do you say we over analyse mercades especially , When we did the same thing with the other girls .there was never a doubt that we were speculating about April .Brit m And Brit H pyscological profiles ,We used our observation of the tapes and documents to draw conclusions and advance opinions that were as every bit as speculitive as what was being discussed with Mercades .unless i am now reading you wrong you seem to be saying that we shouldnt do this in regards to Mecades .I truley do not understand the over analysing remark .It could be that Victoria ignore the warnings unless we ask questions analyse the resposes given Read what others have to say will we be able to form opinions when thees point are brought up . This same process has gone on with all the different threads on this blog since the beginning .Yes i have been reading since the beginning. I was certainly not looking or you or anyone else to agree with me about Mercades .About wheter it was spontanious or not I think is very important and how do you determine this without looking at who said what to whom .Because we can never say with certainty is why these discusions take place .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:58:04 -0000

To everyone I have not been able to find any links to Victoria 's discovery statement . My info comes from the Victem statement that or was on the Ledger web site
If there is a link Please let me know .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:31:17 -0000

Cristina didn't see your latest post before i resonded to your earlier one . The warning argument is a 2 way sword for both of us you say that shows she tried to stop it Where i say it shows she knew it was going to happen and didn't stop it .. First off this argument put the onus on Victoria to stop or halt what others were going to do .The legal onus was on your daughter and the others .She should have told Brit M when it was first mentioned you can't do this in my house .She invited these people into her home I see no evidence that either her or Kayla were afraid . so please tell me why didn't she stop this. . .I will go again to the text theat Victoria receive after she asked if there was going to be trouble .Again the resonse was No we just have to talk . Why did mercades not text Or call Victoria and tell her to stay away until i have got rid of these people . Victoria was not greeted by Mecades telling her not to go in she was confronted By 3 very angry girls who all started yelling at Victoria. This is confirmed by the girl who drove her home .This girl also states that when she askes if Victoria could stay for a couple of hours till she found somewhere else to go BritH and Mercades according to the driver shrugged in what everyone thought was acceptance. At this point if Mercades was ao intent of warning her why would she not speak up at this point April is wating . Also at this point they just got rid of the only person who could have save Victoria at the time. Please do not forget she had no place where to go ,Even if she was not smart to go in was she just supossed to hit the streets with none of her belonings is that what Mercades meant.Gomp ,Scott myself and AmyV and countless others believe there was prior discussin and planning .To me it is inconcievable that with the emotin of these girls that they were not all talking about this ,With respect to Scott and Gomp what roles each played is open to dispute .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:48:24 -0000

To Christina .Really interesting argument you have claiming that you have a right to say that you are or were a victim .Even 2 weeks ago I would have played the I am outraged card followed by a few unflattering jabs at yours or Mercades expense .What you say to me makes sense if you are trying to state your case that the lawsuit is justified than you have to be able to present why you see yourself as a victim and how you and your family suffered as a result of what you feel is somebody's elses actions . Again correct as i have pointed out the Blog is about you .I have repeated way to many time that because of this then you should be prepared to hear things you may not want . This also apply to the rest of us .Saying that you were a victim does not say that you think Victoria was not a victim .Be careful though because in some of your earlier post in your anger or fustration you appeared to have come close .For us who do not agree (I will not go over the 's why i have said and re said those thoughts .}you will hear that you were not the victim ,Victoiria was the only victim .this is also different than saying you have no right to say you were a victim . Very important I am not saying that you have made this claim . Maby this is what Gomp has been trying to patiently explain to me for the last couple of weeks don.t know.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 05:46:22 -0000

To Gomp Good points .I knew when I started talking about ring leaders that there would be alot of room to speculate . I am drawing my conclusions certainly based on my own pre-concieved ideas . One of the main points in doing this was to get people such as yourselves to talk about wether the assult was spontainous or some sort of planned happening . Stating these opinions allows us to really discuss the Phycolgy of those involved. Another possibility that also could make sense is that there was really no Ringleader and they all pushed and pulled on one another as the day or week went on.
As far as my overly dramatic greatness comment . The simplest of us can do great things .without ever being noticed . People work at shelters,volunteer as coaches .Or everyday there are people in prison who do a truly great thing they turn there life arround against the greatest of chalenges . I really agree with your last half of your latest post.Being a good mother and unselfishly giving love .Being able to hold your head high
all the really important stuff, this is also what i am talking about .I do not know if this is possible for anyone of these defandants if they do not accept what thay have done .
I also feel that all apologys should wait till after sentencing so Tthat Victoria and her family know that they come from the heart and not as an attempt to lessen punishment . This will also help evryone get to where they need to go

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:33:54 -0000

To Christina
You have read my opinions on Mercades and i am sure that it cannot be easy to read . We exchanged Bolgs where you told me that you were not here to attack me out of hand but would defend your daughter and point out things where you think i am wrong . So far you have done this and that respect thing we were talking about earlier is increasing on my side . Not that I think you need my respect but there is now even more common ground amazing how this can work even when people don't agree

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:24:12 -0000

Gomp ;
i had no doubt that you of all people would appreciate the the Goring example. i have the advantage of reading your post alot longer than you have read mine.The reason i believe she is the instigator and not just a follower . Goes mainly to the Email that Mercades sent saying" no everthing will be alright we just have to talk ". this to me is Mercades activly partisapating in making sure victoria got there.
There is a reason I have been trying to make this point for a while and is goes directly to the last blog you posted to me . If peter did not admit how bad his actions were to his own soul then there would have been no greatness,He spent the rest of his life trying to correct the uncorecttable The betayal of his master with his denial. . If as i understand it as posted by Christina, Mercades wants to apoligise and make ammends How can we believe her when what she wants to apoligize is not the whloe truth behind her betrayal of Victoria. .Mercades wants to apoligise for not doing anything to stop it as she knows she should of but didn't because she was afraid of BH. .and had no idea that anything was going to happen. Gomp do you believe that this sufficently covers what she is responsible for . In most cases sentencing always takes in true remorse and a defendants acceptance of there actions . it also tends to punish harsher those who do not. When the couts fail in this the defandant will uasally suffer some way down the road . Mercades like Peter Or my favorite NT person Saul who became Paul has an oppurtunity to take this awful mess and see if she can do great thing . this starts with acceptance of her actions and non actions . betrayal is always the worst crime and will haunt Victoria long after The bruises from BH and April are gone.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:41:48 -0000

AmyV and Christinaa nd Electronica
Merry Christmas what an amazing time of year .Well done.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:35:32 -0000

To gomp 'when you say Victoria didn.t seem to expect a to be hit i agree .Again i say over and over check the tape someone says to April I thought you were going to fight . Victoria is the only one who shows suprise .Mercades didn't even move off the couch .Does that sound like a spontanious fight just happened around her . you would think there would have been more of a suprise.reaction instead of instant condemation
.Gomp says "If there was planning, and I believe there was planning, that still leaves open the question how much and by whom
".Good question i certainly .I cannot say what role each had in the planning . But to say Mecades was not in the know just dosen't make any sense .Then as i say that makes her legally guilty of more than just of not reacting when the violence started.
As far as Christinas lawsuit and book ideas .I have not commented on this in a while and unless someone as yourself ask me about it i will not . I am trying my best to get some sort of mutal respect blog thing happening with Christina .So far going better . I think her spin is to fine of a distiction as her book thing is . if she wrote this book with all proceede going towards a woman's shelter or youths against violence then i would like to see what she would have to say . If she is getting paid ,than as mother of one of the defendants than I will never support her getting one cent.Gomp there is a big difference with Spilberg (who is jewish ) wrighting about the holicost than A child of Goring doing the same.I will not change my mind regarding what i think about her actions in these circumstances. But there is still a whole lot of other slants and views that Christina and i can debate with respect . With me this is not one of them.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:09:19 -0000

Christina It was not" I thought you were going to fight me "Someone said to April I thought you were going to fight" . And Christina you are ignoring my arguments about wether it was feasable that Mercades was not aware of the earlier threats . I will say this again and again. If she could warn Victoria ,than she had a legal responsibility to warn her invited guest that they were not allowed to assult Victoria in her house . this is what makes her guilty of accessorie of all the complains against her ...If she did this than she could claim her innocense .If the only debate you have is about the "cryptic iWarning" in every thing i have said in the last 2 statments than I feel I have made a lot of solid arguments . All the girls reactions especialy Mercades"s since it was her own home dosen't make any sense if the fight just happened spontaniously there would have to be so much coincidese that it borders on near impossible. Again When she was warned that Brit H would be her up and Mercades would not stop her . This is exactly what happened . Are you saying that the message was not sent or that Mercades was not aware that it has been sent. Earlier statemenst says that she knew but didn't send that message. .Also when Mercades sent her the text that everyting is cool we just have to talk . Lured Victoria in .Again is Mercades claiming that she didn't send this didn't knoew it was sent . or that there was no discussion amongst Mercades and Brit h about the text in general . This also would make no sense .Mercades herself made this claim "i told you not to come in .She obvisiously meant see you just got hit and I warned you .She clearly understoodthat there was a danger and threat to Victoria and did not do what was legally responsible to do which was to tell her guest to leave if they were going to start trouble.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:10:28 -0000

Again one of the biggest statements is just before April throws the first punch someone says (thinkk its BM)
"I thought you were going to fight ". Again i ask people to please listen for yourselves . They were expecting April to fight' certainly more evidence that some type of plan was involved .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:26:48 -0000

To Gomp
I don't know if i am agreeing with what you have been hinting at but i think Btir h knows now that she was set up.this is know way excuses her or gives reason to lessen a deserved punishment but i thinks she knows that her buttons were indeed dilibertly pushed and to me that is Mercades style . She has been accused in the past to hav ing other people do questioable or illigal activities , So the track record is there .Throw in the we were afaid of Brit H Excuse and I think Brit h has put 2 and 2 together

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:53:42 -0000

I truley believe the start of this was planned It may of got away from them but even near the end of the fight they all had that" its fair its a one on one fight" defense which certainly sounded rehearsed. Therfore if that was the case then you had to have people to move other people doing the deed . Very rearly do you have the ones doing the violence being the leader. I think you had BritM working up April. this would have been easy I think BritM is dangerous and with her Age differense and Aprils own Bravado And both had a grudge . Alot of people hear have stated the opinion that April was trying to impress the older girls . That would have meant BM more than the others . It was probally Mercades and April who got BH going . What is interesting ,Victoria said that she didn't have a problem with BH. And i have not heard of one thing that Victoria Did to BH. Yet she was the one that was worked up . That is a huge sign that it was someone was pushing her buttons good . If Brit H sent that meassage " Beat you ,not going to stop it text than she was being egged on way before Britm arrived .The assult ended when Mercades said lets go I got to p/u her Granmom.brit h stops right away . no more punches thrown. I also find it interesting that BH trys to get everyone to hit Victiria except Mercades .The other proof to me that the ringleader were BritM and Mercades is that thay were the only ones to not filled with anger .BritM Directed and Mercades observed nither one had the anger of April ,BH oh Kayla. that is also a telltale sign of who worked who up . .If you believe that nothing was planned then of course there is not much in my last 2 post to agrre with.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:07:32 -0000

Thanks Chistina ,Gomp and AmyV for your comments . it will be hard to respond to all of your remarks . plus I do not want to keep on repeating the same points so I would like to start talking about the case again and see what everyons responses will be.Lots of us got things off our chest and I think that is a good thing.
I find the question on who we think the ringleader or ringleaders were interesting .Every one has an opinion .the reason i find this interesting is , First you have to believe that alot of the events were pre determined . if you believe the defendants statements that nothing was planned then there was no ringleaders and what was done is on tape . here are my views on both scenarios . I think the ringleaders were Brit M and Mercades . The fact that Victoria received a text saying If you dont change your atttitude BH will beat you up and i wont stop it . The first piece of evidence that this was planned is this is what happened Brit beat Victoria and Mercades did not stop it . . Mecades say that Bh grabbed the phone this is confirmrd in Kaylas audio interview she she says that Bh Victoria and Merc were going back and forth .I have never heard Mercades saying she didn,t know what was said only that she didn,t send it it .its not like BH took the phone ran into the bathroom to text this message. This message is the first known time that violence is mentioned .Three teenage girls in a car or the living room there is no way that they are not talking about this.It would be what did Vic say ,tell her this or what did you say ,the phone was probally being passed back and forth..Both Mercades and Kayla knew about this picticular text and thay both said that BH sent it thats because thay kwew.If not they would not of known who sent it . Then According to Vic the whole tone of the messages change this I belive is Mercades .Bh 's aggression is repaced by a much softer tone .Victoria ask is there is going to be trouble and is told " not to worry we just need to talk ". .This I believe is Mercades This to me is important because this is a luring statement because according to Victoria and confirmed by the driver they were met by 3 very angry girls and not by"its ok and lets just talk". According to The Driver she left with the understanding tha Victoria could stay for 2 hours to find a place . this did not happen.
A warning was given to Victoria not to go into the house but it was cryptic and again thats Mercades .I think she said just enough to make sure Victoria went in the house .everyone pretty much agrees what happened next .Victoria goes into her rm and AC is wating . Not that an arguement started or Victoria started talking tough .April is waiting in her Rm . Even if Victoria is kicked out she would still have to go in her rm to get her stuff. Just Before April thows the first punch in front of the miracously appearing camera When some one is yelling Elmer you can here somone {I think BM} says" I thought you were going to fight"
Please check this out ".Lets look at some very interesting responses Mercades does not act suprised whwn Victotia came out of the bdrm . No -one did they were all waiting . If thhis just happened how come there was no disscussion about the hitting itsel it moved right away to an all out verbal attack by everone against Victoria .If a spontanous fight breaks out how do you get six teenage girls all on the same side so quickly whatever else is argued It was 6 people against Victoria.Mercades never acted like she was suprised it happened never triied to stop it .I have seen fights happen in my friends home .In all instances the person whos home we we in always tried to stop the fight .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 11:28:15 -0000

I thought I was being clear with regards to Christina .but let me be clear . I am going to cut and paste an earlier blog that i posted and ask you to look at what i have said and please critique it from me dec 12

Here is the problem with all this fairness to Chritina that is being mentioned here . Here is A cut and paste from Christa’s blog 2 days ago

“Why do you continue to try and guess things that you clearly have no clue about? At this point things are so screwed up with the case that people read things like rumors and guessing ie. your little comments and take them as facts then form thier opinions, this is how the hate all got started. Are you trying to cause this to happen to my daughter? I am being sincere, not sarcastic or angry. If you want to go on about the facts and have your opinions fine, but please stop the guessing game, I am begging please just stop”

Again this is what we do here we talk ‘guess ,imply .assume and lable . How can we post honest opinions, assuptins and debates when the above quote is the peramiters that Christina want s this case to be discussed .
I will continue to discuss rumors make assumtions and make the same types of comments that have been made about Brit H Brit M and april and kayla . And again if we all look back at these post we all had the freedom to go where we wanted . And sometimes we bashed the people we talk about . Christina reads these same types of comments about Mercades and we are being accused ogf unfairly attacking Mercades . Cristina is on this blog begging us not to mae assumptins but only deal in the facts and stop guessing because of the effect it is having on her life.
I am sorry the things you read here cause you distress . I just cant see how it couldn’t and have us being able to blog freely
End of previos post
Christina is asking us to limit our resonses so she will not get upset .
Gomp Do you think I am mis -representing what she requested and is it fair

'then the issues of Christina going full tilt at amyV and then hearing how we should be more respectful of Christina and no one asking her to be more respectful as well . it seemed like a double standard was starting to take place .
Most of all After that post I was truley concerned about the effect that Christina reading our comments was haveing on her . \ It is good for us to have her here i do not think it is good for her . We harshly critique.
the others invoved in this case without fear or prejuduce .I don't know is Christina will aford us the same where Mercades is concerned .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:32:40 -0000

To gomp It Truly wasn't directed at any indiviual and cetainly not you at all ,I was following up on your comments To Amy in your last post

and I don’t mean to sound critical, but I want to refer back to the time I objected to people using the term
“white trash.” I also said I didn’t like it when people described the perpetrators as “fat and ugly” not only because I don’t think they are fat and ugly but because it is just hurtful without

This is what I thought happned To AmyV just hurtful statements and nobody was objecting .
the gloves coming off was my way of commenting about the the last bunch blogs getting more amd more viscious because of this. I was agreeing with you that this is what was happening again
It was not meant that i thought you had any responsiibilty or you should have got on and objected right away it was an observation of those post that were there not ones that were not

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:31:35 -0000

I cant believe i misspelled Christmas

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:25:14 -0000

To Christina
You mentioned to me "I mean Phil even though you question things about me, I still feel a touch of respect".you are a hundred percent right . i truley think with most people if you talk long enough without resorting to vilonce than these things usally can be worked out .Because this didn't happen lives are changed forever and never in way thats easy .
I will be as open with you now as possible .i still can hide behind my annominity you can not this gives all of us a great advantage . You know what i feel about this case you know of the outrage i feel . I am on this blog vent these feelings to point the finger and the hardest thruth to judge the moral character of those involved .This unfortunaly includes you .Your lawsuit is the header of this blog . your motivation for wanting this is a crucial part of the discussion . You bring angles and insight that controversial and really stirs thing up . Look at the number of post since you have been back .I do not feel that this is the place for you when you say

"I come here for support believe it or not, not to talk anyone into changing thier minds about the case. I just need someone to talk to."

You will continue to read things that will put you and your daughter in a bad light . This cannot be good for you and I urge you to seek out those who can make this time easier for you if you stay then I will apoligise now for all the things i will probally wright .The nice thing about life is if you really want to you can make lemonaide out of lemons
Merry Chrismas

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:32:53 -0000

To Gomp
If you look at the last bunch of blogs directed at AmyV .Her kids have been brought into it her dying Father and she has put on the same level as Brit M(that one still really gets me} . And hardly anyone objected. and as I say if what she has said gets her that type of response than lets all take the gloves off.

Amy if i am sticking up for you again its because you have truly earned my respect and i promise that in the future i will not try to send you a hundred and ten emails .
My Father passed away about 4 years ago i live in another part of the county far from my family so it was up to my siblings to bear the burden of taking care of a dying man.I was spared so much of the suffering that everyone went through and i was and to this day so envious of my siblings that i was not able to share in that burden .Not everone who is facecing what your father is has family and love ones there for them . We have a great responsibility towards those we love and to me that is what makes those sacrifises so worth while

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:19:47 -0000

Here is the problem with all this fairness to Chritina that is being mentioned here . Here is A cut and paste from Christa's blog 2 days ago

"Why do you continue to try and guess things that you clearly have no clue about? At this point things are so screwed up with the case that people read things like rumors and guessing ie. your little comments and take them as facts then form thier opinions, this is how the hate all got started. Are you trying to cause this to happen to my daughter? I am being sincere, not sarcastic or angry. If you want to go on about the facts and have your opinions fine, but please stop the guessing game, I am begging please just stop"

Again this is what we do here we talk 'guess ,imply .assume and lable . How can we post honest opinions, assuptins and debates when the above quote is the peramiters that Christina want s this case to be discussed .
I will continue to discuss rumors make assumtions and make the same types of comments that have been made about Brit H Brit M and april and kayla . And again if we all look back at these post we all had the freedom to go where we wanted . And sometimes we bashed the people we talk about . Christina reads these same types of comments about Mercades and we are being accused ogf unfairly attacking Mercades . Cristina is on this blog begging us not to mae assumptins but only deal in the facts and stop guessing because of the effect it is having on her life.
I am sorry the things you read here cause you distress . I just cant see how it couldn't and have us being able to blog freely

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:19:30 -0000

What does what Victoria" parents not calling Cristina have any thing to do with this and how would you know who they called and why they didn't if they did . but come on comparing traded insults on a blog to what Brit M did is silly ,assinne 'insulting ,stupid . moronic ,well you get the idea. but then again mayby not . Oh No i am as bad as Brit M .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:50:52 -0000

Even if she fired thier lawyer He went into court representing Mercades and and asking to be able to go out of state to do interviews .If they were that unhappy with thier lawyer going for that condition they aginn should have stopped it .Again by the response of Christina then it was her lawyers fault and not thiers . This i find is an ever recurring defence with this family So at this point making money off of Victorias beating was on the agenda . .That along with book ideas and Lawsuits has gone form being a parent to one of the accuses to a major player in this case . It is hard to not to comment on her role in this when these things are part of the public record.I will never accept any scenerio where Christina or her family receiving money from this tradgey as being morally proper .

I would like to comment on the whole who had the cellphone debate later when I can think a little clearer .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:53:10 -0000

Well Steven Don.t really want to comment on any gift giving especially during the christmas season but to comment that a harsh opinion here against Christina makes anyone equal to Brit M is ridiculous. Nobody that I know on this blog Voideo taped an assult helped with the beating the kidnapping and humiliation of a peer .(Least that i kwow of ) .You single out Amy V in pictular read all her blogs on the earlier threads as well as this one.Look at the responses given by Christina and the ones given by Amy V . Look at the title of this thread . If you have and Amy V was who you were comparing to Brit m than you have said worse than anybody here .
AmyV I kwow you can handle yourself sorry but your meanest replys to Christina were mostly in line with what has been stated elewhere and again we should all have a certain ammount of freedom and Chritina gave as good as she got .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:00:03 -0000

Robert Stevens
thanks for the reply
Then it can happen here to be sure but this is a pretty good place to share your opinions but prepared to be chalenged and in diferent ways .
Could you tell me what you meant with the days Christina has left
pretty cryptic

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:31:30 -0000

To Gomp It really had nothing to do with your storey about Brit h conjecture as it mayby not a bad attempt at profiling 'the point being made is if any of these girls mother gets on this type of blogs they are going to see alot of unflattering things said about thier children sometimes just based on an ideas or one remark made out of many .It could be for any reason the person making the blog . It in my opinion is impossible to speak freely about the situation and not say hurtful things . Our discussion about Brit H being a physcopath would have been hurtful to Mrs H if she were on this blog . Even if i do not see that as a personal attack.

What is trolling
Robert Stevens
Whats this about those days you keep mentioning .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:01:49 -0000

To Christina .Gomp and GregS
When i will be replying to Christina it will be like i was responing to any other statement made by others . i will refrain from making derogitory statesment about Mercades you must however be prepared to here her character discussed as it relates to her actions and lack of actions and and what some of us believe had legal resonsibilitys as well as moral responsibiltys . If you look at the last discussions of April and Britnay H and Britni M .We discussed whether tey were Pyscpaths or Sadist ring leader or bully or weather any type of counciling would even help people who could do such a thing and imean the whole thing from beginning to end .
To Gomp and GregS mostly but to every one else should that change in regards to Mecades because Christina post her views here.

To Christina i am speaking to you as a father . It is Dec 11 .Christmas is 2 weeks away .You should try to put this case away for awhile you have all had such a terriible year that has already excacted a price that is difficult for me to imagine .You have 2 children a mother and all you hold dear that must despertly need you especially during this Christmas
season .Go do what we all try to do on the holidays .Try to give them the best Christmas possible .You are to close to this not to be affected by what you will read here . It will not help serve you well at this time of year .Christmas is a time to celebrate something purer than what gets discussed here .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:48:15 -0000

AmyV
This case has gone on way to long
we go around in circles on this blog no date set. .Murders that have happened since have gone to trial. I don't know who is to blame the defense or the prosicution but to me the proscucutors have dropped the ball big time if they plead this down after the courts decided the defendants were to be tried as adults.
The longer they wait the better i believe it will be for the defense . The only thing I think it can happen is that any plea deal may have to be agreed by all and if that dosen't happen than it goes to trial which is the only way i see the defendants getting a fair punishment for thier actions . I just do not see house arrest as a suitable punishment for any of these girls excepting mayby Kalya and to me that is still a big mayby.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:49:45 -0000

Amy
Have to agree again with your take on kayla .If you go back and watch the tape where Victoria takes that brutal hitand Brit M is making those sounds you can see Kayla in the background with a big grin ..Still with her blaming Brit H like she did she had better hope that Brit H is going to abide to whatever conditions she gets .
GregS appreciate your response to my BritM question . Is the fact that she acted out of some sort of pleasure rather than anger make it easier or harder to figure out a suitable punishment for her actions '.
I doubt that we will hear her saying that she was afaid of Brit H

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:15:00 -0000

My 2 cents here it goes .Christina how can you say she didn't know something was going to happen but she warned Victoria not to go in because some thing might happen . It can't be both so a direct question which one was it . This is the corner stone to Mercades defence . If Now with the new information about Brit M and April from the week before the attack an truley amazing coincidense for all those people with a grudge against Victoria to be assembles in one place . That with Victoria's testimoy about all the text messages prior to her arrival and to me that is evidence not speculation Plus her comment that If Victoria didn,t change her attitude then Brit H is going to beat her up and Mercades was not going to stop it . This to me means she could of stopped it knew it was going to happen and didn't . There is no evidence of either Mercades and Kayla being scared on the tape but Christina this blog is for speculation and thats probally not going to change
My comment about paid interviews had nothing to do with the Dr phil interviw bit when Mercades lawyer was trying to get her arrest conditions reduced one of the request was to travell out of state to do interviews This i believe is part of the public record .
I will once again have to agree with Gomp . You are very brave to come on this post .The rest of us can hide behind our anominoty and you cannot .You have given this blog an insight that is apperciated .I am sorry that you have to read all the things that get said here ,some of them are anything but flattering .For my part i would like to sincerly apoligise for the hurtful things i have directed at you in my post .Again as Gomp and GredS have pointed out every body should be respected here and I certainly did not do this . i do not want blood where your daughter is concerned i do want her to be sentenced for what she is responsible for . We obviously disagree with what that responsibility is . I will go back to my first question Christina how can you say she didn't know something was going to happen but she warned Victoria not to go in because some thing might happen . It can't be both so a direct question which one was it .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:51:56 -0000

To Robert Stevens
To me it just depends on what you mean by support . You can read my earlier blog to know i am not a fan of her actions . that being said i have said my persoal attack and can't see myself doing the same again.However I will never support her trying to make money off of the pain and suffering that Victoria lindsy endured . She tried to get mercades on paid interviews ,Book deals and lawsuits those issues are still out there to be critisize and I will try to be more respectful in tone (thats for Gomp ,see I do listen) .I do not look at her as a guest on this blog but a participant and she to should turn down the retoric also (see her last blog to Amy V ).I also will not support her allegations about her daughters minimal invovement.you seem to know her personally therefore your support is probally needed to help her endure what she and her family has gone through . Why she would need support from complete strangers I do not know The part she has gone through because of Mercades actions she deserves support , She cannot be held responsible for that .The other critisims
i feel her actions have brought it on herself . I will strongly challange any view points where I feel like responding but in the same way i would to anybody else .
Gomp
One of the reasons for my last 2 questions to you and gregS is I believe with Brit M doing the video taping that makes her much more of a perticipant as resposible as Brit H
and April . That with the fact that she aslo perticipated in the hitting although not that much and with her demeanour during the assult to me is
has been understated especialy when compared to April .
To Amy
on the 8th you said Hi Phil - Talk to you about your comments later was there someting specific i said that you wanted to comment on or have you moved on to other thoughs about the case .Either way look forward to your resonses as always .(That's probally because I almost always agree )

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 04:39:00 -0000

To Gomp and GregS
Gomp thanks for your reply .
i was more looking to get yours and Greg s opinion as it relates to Brit M She seemed to have a detached enjoyment . When she said "seveteen seconds left make it good " there was no anger in her voice at all or the other sounds that don't need translation to her concern about the lighting . .For myself i would rather hear I don't know what made me so anggry as opposed to i don't know why i enjoyed it . With what you guys have read does she have problems that are even harder to treat than the others . Also Brit M has avoided alot of the discussion that has been aimed at the others . Interested to hear what you think,

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:30:38 -0000

To Gomp and GregS
Reading your blogs on the physco stuff couldn,t follow alot of it but both of you seem to have done your research .With brit h I have an easier time recognising the rage or April's role in wanting to prove herself in her part of the beating .Even Mercades and kayla I believe I understand thier motivation in what happened , Brit m is the one that i have the most time coming to terms with . Anger can usually be diagnosed and through hard work controlled to a degree. I am sure Brit h now realizes the demon she has inside . Brit M however seemed to really enjoy the whole experience and How do you treat some one who enjoyed the process as opposed to someone who lost controll.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 13:41:59 -0000

To Amy
If Brit h mom came on to say how sorry than she would probally be welcomed and respected . If she came on and didn't . I don,t think so .
It is so hard to deal in the hypo-thetical.So could be very wrong
To Greg s
I understand what you say .Emotion its self can be detsuctive . This will be one of these points that will be very hard to put in proper words . but here it goes
Mason murders was not just another murder ..Killing or rapeing a child is never seen in the same light as doing the same to an adult ,even though both are human beings. As a society we are more outraged when someone kills in one fashion over another and we set up laws to take this into account . again the judge usally has minimum and maximes sentences to handle this in most crimes before the courts. The reason in the first place that this was moved to an adult court was that when it was viewed thier was a colective outpour of emotion from eveybody involved . The law called the attack animalistic Most agreed .We must always use the laws and logic and purpose when deciding the fate of anyone before the legal system but to say it has no role .i will disagree .
I cannot watch that tape without feeling angry and sad and a liitle bit sick to my stomach . I hope i am never able to do so..

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:20:15 -0000

To Gomp
For the record I never had even the slightest problem with your respone to my Chritina rant . You were bang -on 'I have never had a problem with you accepting Christina in whatever form that you see fit . you took your shots for it and gave them back when you thought it nessecary . ..When a judge is making his or her ruling they often will do so based on thiers and societys outrage so emotion is never entirly taken out of the equation . My emotins have served me well and have given me what i think is a good moral compass .You seem to liike following different lines of logic to explore different angles so to me you found what christina had to say interesting . .I mayby Amy ,Nav (do not mean to speak for someone else ) just foung it insulting and degrading.
you have every right to hold your judgement comment favourabley on any point she or anyone else makes . I just can't get past all the other stuff that i have already gone on record with . one thing is sure to me i have spent to much time on someone who really isn't involved in the actual assult. One other point when alot of people really started disagreeing with her she left the Blog (i Think )
Came back to get some good and very personal shots at Amy and left again .
At least Amy has answered when called upon as have Electronica Nav and yourself.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 05:39:01 -0000

To Amy and Gomp
When i put those comments about Christina and said I woild except the critisim that goes with it i will try to clarify what i meant .I do not understand why Christina or any parent would perticipate in a blog where these types of thing are being said . If you look at the post at the top of this thread before Christina joined on they were universally Brutal . Why should she expect that to change . Her comments were excepted by some rejected by others . When I receive critism ,the first thing I ask is what they are saying is right . If not i move on . If they are right (Such as Gomps spots comments I was certainly showing mine .) than I ask even if the person is right does not mean I was wrong.Amy we have both attacked Christina vicously with our words on this blog . Other people have the right to do so in return if they disagree . . the reason I will not try to defend back if some think I went to far is this is not a debate on what the sentence should be or if this one said this or who's more responsibe Brit h Or mercades .Adult prison or juv. The statement was what is was there is no denying the intent so how could i disagree with someone who disagrees .That way I don.t have to get that upset over it .I think the other parents would face nasty barage on any thread in this case if they tried to defend thier daughters . Can you imagine the response if Brit h mom said that her daughter is not that bad and didn't mean to really hurt victoria that bad but got carried away . They are in a no win situation . But the other Moms are not talking law suits . book deals and talk shows.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:24:22 -0000

To Gomp .
when i have read Christina's responses there is most times an underliying malice in her blogs .From the Jake the snake to seemingly able to bring a negative as far as Victoria goes but still saying she supports victoria . with her I just find it difficult to swallow .I don't understand her motives but the trying to make money off of this is the one thing that really gets to me. I tend to let go of my emotions from time to time and have to eat crow time to time as a result . I was wrong to suggest that Victoria get friends and settle this as please Amy reconsider agreeing me on this point . This is how people really get hurt .I will stand by my Chritina rant because it did come from what i truley feel about her role in this . I will also accept the critisim without responding from anyone who thought i was overly mean or overly disrespectful.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:02:10 -0000

Greg S
Went to the link on your latest post
May be dumb but did not understand what the link was for in relation to this case

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:50:29 -0000

To Gomp
I did not answer your second question . There is not much I would want to ask the parents .I do not blame any of the parents for the actions of thier daughters .not even Christina .I have commented in earlier past that i do not think these girls are pure evil beyond repair and the strain on thier families must be enormus . I have said before this blog is about stating opinions and then having the tested .I hope i will think the same even if the bad deal becomes a reality . I would say now
to these parents that I hope everyone of these girls are truly sorrry for what they did to victoria and after thier ridiculos sentence is finished that they work hard to undo the damage they have done forgive themselves where possible and as the good book says do unto others as you would have them do onto you . Then thier families will heal and mayby in the long run Victoria will as well .
Thanks again for the nicley worded question Even the part about me showing my own spots .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:32:41 -0000

to gomp
Fair question and another good anolagy .I really don/t know especiaaly today . I am not in the right frame of mind to be fair and rational . First off the other 2 mothers stayed silent . I really have read most of Christina's statements ,watched her interviews and listened to her on radio.and i have to say I don't have alot of respect for her . If the other 2 mothers were trying to minimize thier daughter role and involvement at the same time giving those little jabs and innuendos about Victoria then I woulld probally react the same eventually. I will ask you this why would she even be on any blog where what we say has no effect on the judgement of the courts . She has made herself a lighting road scince the beginning . All it has done is brought more scorn on her family .I do not take back what i said in my earlier post . I agree with amy and answered her scorn with my own .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:28:26 -0000

To Christina .
Nice to know the jackel is showing her spots you must be sad this may be over soon the only thing you will be remembered for is what your daughter did . I'm sure if you think long and hard you can find another way to make a buck off this . what shows do you and your daughter have lined up, I have found your participation in this case disgusting since your first interview nice to know you haven't disapointed me in your latest barage . Read all the blogs . what Amy has said about you 2 has been flattering compared what most of society thinks . You haven't enough time to to chase down and comment to eveyonne who has distain for you 2 there are way to many . . You came on this blog of your on will . You added your piece of poison . I am not buying it and agree with amy . This is about as nice of an address as i can write to you I know you don't care but You still probally like for me to buy your book or whatever post Victoria career you might have in mind .
So much for the compassion i was just sprouting about but I feel better now .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 11:32:19 -0000

I woluld like to apoligize for my last post where i said that Victoria should of got some of her friends and taken care of it . I was to angry and that type of thinking is what started this mess . The only thing that makes sense is that both Victoria and her step mom said they did not want jail time so mayby they are signing off on it . Me i am still pissed
if it is true but I truley believe in rules of law,compassion and justice and the previous post was lacking in all 3 .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 09:10:38 -0000

I wouldn't trust growns ups either if you report a crime like Victoria did and this is what happens . she should have gotten a bunch of her friends together and taken care of it herself because the adults she trusted let her down . Those 6 who did all of the damage should trust adults beacause thy took care of the villians .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 08:36:02 -0000

The law is supposed to protect those that cannot and to set an example to those that cross it . That sort of deal is a sad end to a sad storey ..
To scott still dont agree about April but thanks for answering me .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 06:43:09 -0000

Scott what proof do you have that"I personally think April was caught between a rock and a hard place. She may have wanted to give Tori an attitude adjustment but she had to beat up Tori enough to please the older girls encouraging her to hurt Tori and yet not beat her up so much that she killed or maimed Tori. April had to straddle that fine line with the girls and Tori.She seemed to me egar and willing to do what she did . Mayby at first she might have been egged a little on but the second part there is absoultly no eveidence besides the fact that she dosn,t hit as hard as Brit H..Besides that I don't understand how you come to that conclusion . Reading the statments that are available and watching the tape there is no hint that aprils intent was any other then what she did which is strike Victoria over and over when no one ellse was .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 05:54:21 -0000

Amy V if that's all these girls get then it is a travesty . open season on teen violence . Go ahead and post it on the net you will get famous and the worst that can happen is you get grounded for a lousey 6 months . Go ahead and beat and humilate who use chose . Better yet use my place no prob I can just plead I didn,t know . .Every beat down involving teens in the lovly state of flordia will now look at this as the default sentence because short of murder it couldn't get much worse and if there is no tape perhaps nothing . Can you inagine if there was no video . Victoria would have been charged with stealing Mecades 4 dollars . There is no protection for the victem . If again this is trre than i am totally disgusted and I believe its puts some of these gorls in harms way for vigle -anti justice ,. The courts can blame themselves for that as well

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 01:55:15 -0000

To GregS
Can you say where you heard this (the 6 months house arrest)Was it from a news source or someone you know close to the case .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:17:18 -0000

to gomp '\Thanks for your response this is not my area of expertise so its very hard to disagree with you. I think its a little impratical and probally expensive to put in place your ideas. It would take to many years and tooa much money and again I don.t know if like the eastern philosoph is any better than ours An easy way of telling if these girls are that bad or phycopaths is if after all of this we hear about them than thats your answer . .i think though that everybody invoved will try to stay under the radar ,not including Mercades Mom.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:07:06 -0000

To Electronic . Speaking only for myself I understood what you were trying to say . I just don,t agree ,. To claim that April was not trying to really hurt Victoria . Is way to fine of a distiction to make . If you hit someone as many time as she did I assume you are trying and doing damage . You and i can't read her mind to know if she was really trying to hurt her or just trying to hurt her , Its not just the hitting its hitting her as she is comming off the couch Victoria is moving right into a right hand that throws her back,At this time she is almost stagering towards the door a . As well her body and mind are given no rest before Brit h is taking back over. I am really trying to see somethings the way you do but you seem to always be giving the benifit of the doubt to the ones doing the crime , Who cares if Kayla hit her 3 time or 10 times .To me she hit between 3 and 10 and kayla say she didn,t hit her at all . To me it was 6 against 1 all of them are more guilty than the sum of thier own individual actions .Victoria never had a chance and this is what lawyers always try to do minimize thier clients intent and point it somewhere else it was a team efforr from the whole bunch and again i understand what you are trying to say but April is very responsible for the damage Victoria suffered and continuus to suffer .Every hit taken soft or hard added to her pain and humiliation. If she was scared she was going to die it was not just because of Brit h . I think you are way to soft on some of these girls. You have called me cruel in the past for some of my statements and thats okay but I do not understand you continued defense for April .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 07:37:18 -0000

I don't believe Brit h and the reat of them are psychopaths I think they meant to punish Victiria and planned to do so but it got way out of hand .A
psychopath has no regrets or consciense in thier acts. I am not saying this as excuse for thier actions nor to use this as a point foe a more liniant punishment . I am a firm believer that once the price is paid that these girls are not above redemtion and should not be wriiten off . If any of them re-offend then all bets are off

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 05:13:07 -0000

I don't really understand the whole Martial arts debate it seems to me that countrys where this is praticed and common have as many crime issues as the rest of the world . that being said ,when someone goes to prison or faces these life altering charges it seems to go 1 of 2 ways . Some use this as an oppurtunity to make ammends and change there lives. There are many people who do not re offend and they use counciling ,religion, family support or even the types of dicipline s that are being discussed here to help them become better members of society. Many others do not and use these same methods just to get lighter sentences ,of course these are the ones that will be on the news . I would have to say until Brit H completd many years of anger managemnt that giving her martial arts training would not be in the best interest of society.Do you guys think that after this is over that this will be the last we hear of these 5 or more likly that they will re-offend .Interested to know what you think.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:11:44 -0000

To Electronica .I'm a bit sad on how upset you appear to be getting .As i have said this case stirs the emotions like no case i have seen . When it is all said and done I think a plea bargin will insure April is in juv and not adult prison . I dont think kayla will get much .There are kids in Juv who sell drugs and b& e's that have not done viloence April has done violence .giggled in court about it when charged .I really admire your compassion and please believe when i say it seems to serve you well I don't know that April is deserving of all the emotianl support that you are expending . That being said you know your own mind better than us .April struck her many times,the reason i am stating the obvoius about that is Victoria vision is still fussy in one eye the repeated blows had to have an effect on this added to what Brit M did, This cannot be excused with She wasn't trying to hit her to hard . When she started hitting Victoria again after Brit h clocked her by the coach this forced Victoria to try to get away from her forcesing her back into Brit h . To me it was Brutal . It just didn't stop .April made sure that when Brit was taking a break that the violence continued . hope tomorrow fins you better
Amy V
I still can't believe that people think that because some facts came out that Victoria has problems and may not be likesd by her peers should make any difference in alloting the proper blame . If anything every time i hear one of these accusations it proofs to me that this was a planned attack and payback was delivered

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:57:14 -0000

Don't forget they can always refuse any plea deal and take a chance whith either a jury or even just a judge who is trained to be impartial and not be caught up in the hype but if I were April and got offered 2 to 3 years I wouldn.'t take a chance on either if it was 4 to 5 years i would probally not take it . if it was less than 1 year I would feel like i won the lottery

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:49:40 -0000

So much to comment on its always hard to know where to begin .I do not claim that all jails are the same can you imagine the of fear the person that will end up with brit h as a cell mate .That person may have the same claim as what did i do to deserve such cruelity ,as a guy she scares me . What you are saying Eloctronica about alot of other people saying about April is true alot of people want her in adult prison for a long time .that shows me that most people really think she is deserving of such punishment I think it is deserved .The same could be said about April . Would it be fair to put her in a prison amongst non violent\offenders then it would not be fair to them . Jail is a hard place to talk about fair .April 's offenses were cruel and violent and no one can promise that jail time will be easy or free of danger . I am thinking that you or most of your friends would have never done the things that April did ,the ones that would or could have to know that whats await them and it is not worth doing the deed .And no we don't kill her and I really hope its in a Juv prison .but 3 months an conditions will never be the proper sentence as i see it .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:37:17 -0000

To clarify . 'I would be opposed to April spending her sentence( whatever it is )in an adult prison.I also beleve a heavy dose of counciling is in order . If April is sincere in her regret and determined to put this behind her then this would help . If not then that also would be up to her .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:31:03 -0000

Electronica ;I think she should be in juv prison for no less then 2 years that being said the courts have decided that thier actions were so bad that thy will be tried as adults . Punishment must fit that distinction . You can look through the legal system and find cases where a person gets 5 years for killing someone and another gets 12 years years for robery or fraud or simple drug possesion. I cannot dispute you when you pull theses cases out .If the courts had decided that they would be tried in juv courts then the punishments would fit these crimes . Its is not that i want anybody to go to jail , I will just state again that I do not believe your sentence recomondation meets the the punishment deserved forwhat she did .one if the biggest reson for this is that your recomondation is to short to have a deterant factor built into the sentence which i believe is so important to let others know when you crossthat line that badly you will pay . How many of your generation would be afraid of , 3 months juv even with your other conditions . My step daughter says nobody. mayby just another opinion.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:59:10 -0000

To Gomp
in one of my first post i stated that you seemed to except the ashes on the shelf excuse . Ive been reading the old post and it was Scott who made that statement and not you , belated apology

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:30:49 -0000

Gomp
It is hard to cross reference different types of crimes and relate a suitable type of punishment . Today crimes of hate and sexual assult are seen (and propery so )in a much worse light than just 10 years ago . The only thing you can do is charge people with the laws they break and use these laws to to justify the punishment . .What someone gets for dealing drugs is as about as consistent the weather . Each set of cicumstances is different . that is why there are minimum and maximum sentences attached to most crimes . its usually
not the laws that get in the way but the will of those charged with insuring that sentences are consitently just . Even with a video tape of this crime look how many opinions there is on this case. Can you imagine how hard it is when there is not such proof . I have a hard time beliving when other people see the same tape read the same reports and see this in a totally different light than me . Some people get outraged at any type of drug use and others see it as no big deal.As societys standards chage it is areal chalenge for the laws to keep up with them such as possenion for pot if outside caligornia or something as serious the Lori drew case .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:38:00 -0000

Greg
I feel sorry for the whole mess . These girls have put thier friends and families in a no win situation . If you try to defend them your are attacked.
.I still think it is nessecary for them to pay a harsh price like all people who do such things but it is such a waste that a half hour of brutality has made these girls some of the most hated people on the planet .I do feel sorry for them but not a tenth as sorry as I feel for Victoria and her family .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:28:10 -0000

To electronica
You would make an excellent defence attorny ..Time served in jail would only make her criminal if she decides to do things that criminals do which has got her in this mess in the first place .If she re ofended it only proove that she is what most people are saying about her. We will have to agree to disagree because as you think my sentence is to harsh I truly believe yours does not meet the standard of the offences she has been charged with or act as a deterent . That being said I will think again on your statements . I do find of all people that have differing opinions than mine on this case your logic has been the most persuisive.
Keep up the good work

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:17:50 -0000

To Electronica
I just read through your post on the plea deal blog , Before I comment I just want to say how much I appreciate your views re the long sentence I recommended for April . You really gave me pause to think about why i came up with 4 to 5 years .Your points hit home in many ways and I have found myself having some second thoughts . That being said if you found 4 to 5 years exceptionaly cruel I find 3 months exceptionaly low . How can 3 months be a payment for whay she did not only will this not teach April the lessons she needs to learn it just says to anybody else if you do something like this you won't get much time .I would recomend 2 to 3 years for april and that is because she is 14 because she was with 17 year old girls they have more culpibility .Mayby 6to 8 years is to long for Brit h But anything less then 5 to 6 years to me would not be right . Brit m 4 to 5 and Merc 4 to 5 thier is enough evidence that this was pre aranged even if it got out of hand . I think this was a horendus crime not just the hitting but the planned humiliation if this was just another beat doen there wouldn't be so many blogs abot the aussult . The internet is full of fights ,teen fighs ,girl fights and you name it but this goes beoynd bad in so many ways . When teenagers get sentenced in adult cout thy are sent to juvenile prisons and if the sentence is beyond thier 18th birthday then usually they are transfered to adult prison when they reach thier 18 th birthday .Hope to hear back with what you think and hope you feel better soon .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:03:28 -0000

To Gomp
I did not take her statement that way .You are right its not the same
intent as some of the wars between you Amy Nav and Christina
Sorry Electria

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:34:21 -0000

To Gomp \Another excelent analogy,My answer is still the same with the emotion that case invokes you are going to be attacked .Electronica has called me cruel . Everybody who knows me would disagree and that was for just stating an opinion on what I thought April should receive .She is passionate about her beliefs . She sees a bunch of adults out for blood .I don't know how wrong she is .I can either respond or not respond ..I will not respond to those who call for vigel -anti viloence .This case is before the courts and that is where it will be decided If Nav or anyone else attacks your statements or your integrity then you have to be ready to take it,or attack back or ignore it . When we make these statements we reveal a little of who we are and we open ourselves to harsh critisizem.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:07:04 -0000

To Electronica .
I didn't pick on her all year long not that this was my main point . Also special needs does not mean mentally retarded . I am not disagreeing with you at all as far as my conduct was concerned . I am 47 yeras old back in 1974 there were few laws in place to protect kids from bulling kids if we would have been charged with anything my mother thought I was as guilty as those that did far worse . She made me understand that when I laughed and supported those that bully i became the bully so if you thought that charges should have been brought in this case than i woudn't have been able to hide from what I had done. This pont was in direct response to Christine"s claim that her daughter was just a bad friend defense . I cannot imangine the type of person i would have become if my mother had played that the others were doing the abusing and i was only doing the laughing and encouraging .If those laws were in place and enough people were outraged then she would have had the protection she had every right to expect. I am listinening to what you said about Aprils sentence . Please tell me what you think is just do you think that punishment should also be strong enough to hep deter other from this same course .

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:07:39 -0000

I get so torn up with this case I can't imagine what those other girls and thier families have gone through and honestly I have not spent alot of time trying to figure it out i have refered to them as Goons , felons, animals and have thought much worse. It is hard to know what they think because of the gag order so much is speculation . If thier lawyer's actions are representitive of there clients then I haven't seen much remorse .These people all made horible mistakes I wish when I think back to the video that the anger would go away but it just dosen't . So it is not only with logic that I say these things and my anger and disgust have to be tempered[ But not eliminated} with in the confines of the legal system for good or bad . As we are not perfect either is the system. There are plenty of laws to deal with most crimes it all boils down to how much punishment these people deserve . I know for some this is easy for me this is not ,To send these girls away in thier formitive years would be devastaing and a cruel hardship to them and thier families I don.t know if I could ever be a judge .I would probally be more like Mercades Mom and want to give them all a hug . They will be alone afraid in an hostle envioment .So yes I can feel some empathy for these "felons". However felony laws are in place for exactly these types of crimes it is why jails are built in the first place .so we can put away people who show such disrespect for thier fellow citizens. If or when they get sent away I will feel no joy only sadness that these girls mades such bad decisions .When I think of all the pain that eveyone invoved in this case has and will experience I could just cry ,

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:49:17 -0000

P.S God I have to learnhow to proof read better

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 06:47:34 -0000

To Greg It is tough today the legal system is not set up to deal with internet bullying. Unlike the Drew case there were few laws in place that could be used ,that is not the case with this assult . There were plenty of laws broken hense the multiple charges .
Eltronica everytime a judge sends someone to prison he or she is being cruel but that is the burden a judge has . .Again I am not a qualified judge and I can't weigh this against past cases of similar a similar nature . I promise I will not direct any more cooments at ou till you have had a chance to respond if this is you wish.

Re: http://www.crimene.ws/2008/07/mercades-nichols-mom-files-lawsuit.html

Phil — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 05:55:01 -0000

Again to Electronica . The problem I have with your views on sentencing is in my opinion is that not only does it not fit the crime but there is no deterent to the next bunch of who may think of something similar . A couple months in Juv scares no one these days .When you stated if i was april and i was sent to prison for five years like phil and nav demand id probably kill myself cause it would be so unfair. that is the type of deterent that that may make a diference . I do not think that April should serve that time in adult prison . Please also remember that many others have called for life , viloence and other untold horrors to be be inflicted on these girls . I also stated that "Itӳ hard for me to come up with approiate punishment in this case . They are or were teenagerӳ at the time of the assult . I also do not have the experience to see how this assult stacks up against others ..Any punishment given to these girls should have profesonial help included so whatever broke down in thier thought process can be addressed . I would like to state again that I don't thing Brit h is a sycopath or that April and Mercades are evil .I just think they have a price to pay for thier actions . With Brit M its even harder gor me because while the others seemed to be angry she seemed to be enjoying the whole process and being behind the camera made her way more of a participant then Kayla and Mercades.I can't remember exactly what you have stated before so if you could explain again what you give to these girls. then I would like to hear it That is the problem with joining a blog so late you guys have already discussed and stated your opinions and probally don't want to go over old statments
hope you feel better soon