DISQUS

Daniel, what's the source of this damning chart? The NY Times? Hrm, hardly good journalism anymore. I assume they must have had a scientific study done, so I'd be interested in how the metrics were determined.

Things such as per capita birthrates, total marriages vs. total people unmarried living together, determination of online pornographic sites, etc.

Statistics can be skewed any way you like. That's basic statistics theory 101, which is why it's important to know the method used to gather data.

BTW, I'm not disagreeing with all the results, just saying a little more transparency might be nice.

Let's see what we have:

--Upholding illegal wiretaps indefinitely
--Not closing Guantanamo at least til 2012 (refer to approps cmtte)
--Not allowing 5 days of public comment on all legislation (SCHIP, Credit Card Bill, Ledbetter Act, and most importantly Cap and Trade (which wasn't even complete and in the House well when voted on)
--Sending troops to Afghanistan and funding a war there (which Bush was crucified for in Iraq)

The list will get longer as time goes on. That is a fact. And this was just things I could think of off the top of my head. He is a liar and a con. Your typical politician, only he's increasing the size and control of the federal government faster than any President in history.

If this Cap and Trade makes it through the Senate, then I sincerely worry for the complete collapse of America.

Wish the author knew how to spell "truly".

Wow Daniel. I never thought you, a Ron Paul supporter, would ever endorse theft. Forget Socialism or Collectivism or whatever other label we want to call it. Obama's economic plan is so far from what Ron Paul supports and what he stands for.

Taking something that is someone else's and calling it your own is theft plain and simple. This isn't just a tax the rich program, this is redistribution of wealth all in the name of fairness? Fair is forcefully taking money from people who have earned it?

You said it yourself that "We’re talking about taking a very small percent from the VERY rich, and giving it to the middle class who ARE contributing." It's not about the fact that currently it will only be a small percentage tax on the "very" rich. How do we define those that are middle class and contributing? It's about the principle of taking something that's not yours.

What's the incentive to become VERY rich when if I, as a middle class citizen, am somewhat successful and contribute to society based on some vague government definition, I'll get some free money from the government (aka rich people)?

My wife and I can't have kids but are good people and contribute to society. So, the government goes to a family that has been successful in their production of offspring and has 6 kids. It's obviously not fair that they get 6 kids when my wife and I can't even have 1 child. So the government takes one of the 6 children and gives it to us. It's TAKING something of value and giving it to someone else. Is it a shame we can't have kids? Absolutely. Is it the responsibility of the family of 6 to give us a child? No. That's exactly what Obama is proposing, only he's talking about dollar bills instead of children.

I love Robin Hood just as much as the next guy, but this taking from the rich is wrong and you know it.

Wow Daniel. I never thought you, a Ron Paul supporter, would ever endorse theft. Forget Socialism or Collectivism or whatever other label we want to call it. Obama's economic plan is so far from what Ron Paul supports and what he stands for.

Taking something that is someone else's and calling it your own is theft plain and simple. This isn't just a tax the rich program, this is redistribution of wealth all in the name of fairness? Fair is forcefully taking money from people who have earned it?

You said it yourself that "We’re talking about taking a very small percent from the VERY rich, and giving it to the middle class who ARE contributing." It's not about the fact that currently it will only be a small percentage tax on the "very" rich. How do we define those that are middle class and contributing? It's about the principle of taking something that's not yours.

What's the incentive to become VERY rich when if I, as a middle class citizen, am somewhat successful and contribute to society based on some vague government definition, I'll get some free money from the government (aka rich people)?

My wife and I can't have kids but are good people and contribute to society. So, the government goes to a family that has been successful in their production of offspring and has 6 kids. It's obviously not fair that they get 6 kids when my wife and I can't even have 1 child. So the government takes one of the 6 children and gives it to us. It's TAKING something of value and giving it to someone else. Is it a shame we can't have kids? Absolutely. Is it the responsibility of the family of 6 to give us a child? No. That's exactly what Obama is proposing, only he's talking about dollar bills instead of children.

I love Robin Hood just as much as the next guy, but this taking from the rich is wrong and you know it.

Forced redistribution of wealth through taxes or any other means is not right or for you Paul supporters, a Ron Paul endorsed concept. Anytime you take money from someone with more income and give it to someone with lower income that's a simple version of collectivism and/or my opinion a beginning of a socialist economy.

You worry about people getting money to get their hair done or upgrade their cars? That's what's already happening with Welfare money. I was in Wal-Mart just the other day. A woman was using her food stamps to buy milk, bread, eggs, etc, but then had an entire buggy full of other junk food. Sodas, junk food, expensive cereals, etc. Why is it there are people who make too much money for food stamps, but they struggle some months to buy staples? So if these people would just make less money, then the government would give them a free handout and they'd have enough to buy their 'wants' as well as their 'needs'.

I will never vote for Obama because he supports this redistribution you mention Daniel. And frankly, I'm shocked that you are all for "spreading the wealth".

Forced redistribution of wealth through taxes or any other means is not right or for you Paul supporters, a Ron Paul endorsed concept. Anytime you take money from someone with more income and give it to someone with lower income that's a simple version of collectivism and/or my opinion a beginning of a socialist economy.

You worry about people getting money to get their hair done or upgrade their cars? That's what's already happening with Welfare money. I was in Wal-Mart just the other day. A woman was using her food stamps to buy milk, bread, eggs, etc, but then had an entire buggy full of other junk food. Sodas, junk food, expensive cereals, etc. Why is it there are people who make too much money for food stamps, but they struggle some months to buy staples? So if these people would just make less money, then the government would give them a free handout and they'd have enough to buy their 'wants' as well as their 'needs'.

I will never vote for Obama because he supports this redistribution you mention Daniel. And frankly, I'm shocked that you are all for "spreading the wealth".

Tried posting it before, but it doesn't appear to have worked. Trying again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M

Tried posting it before, but it doesn't appear to have worked. Trying again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M

The intent of the Founder's was never to remove the church (or religion) from the state, but to remove the state from the church.

The intent of the Founder's was never to remove the church (or religion) from the state, but to remove the state from the church.

Jason, why explain the truth? It's far better to let people sensationalize topics with headlines and videos to convey their own beliefs.

/sarcasm

Jason, why explain the truth? It's far better to let people sensationalize topics with headlines and videos to convey their own beliefs.

/sarcasm

I guess it would completely outside of your "thinking rather than following" mentality to recognize the fact there is a program called Photoshop right? ;)

I guess it would completely outside of your "thinking rather than following" mentality to recognize the fact there is a program called Photoshop right? ;)

That homeless guy doesn't clean up poop most likely for the same reason my alcoholic uncle would rather stay in jail than go to rehab. Existence of rules and submission to authority. In rehab he has to follow someone else's rules, while in jail it's different. 99% of those homeless guys can find work. There are plenty of opportunities to "go clean up poop." But then again, doesn't stop me from throwing some dollars their way usually.

I recognize the diversity of people by all means. I also recognize some people are dealt a bad hand from the start, but I shouldn't be forced give my money and resources away to those people. There's too much room for corruption and laziness (ie. welfare). There's no incentive to get a job or "do better".

I like this analogy better. A little more depth to the "analogy" than Daniel's:

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, but her father was a staunch Republican. One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to high taxes and welfare programs.

He stopped her and asked her, "How are you doing in school?"

She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA, but it was really tough. She had to study all the time and ever had time to go out and party. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because she was spending all her time studying. On top of that, the part-time job her father insisted she keep left absolutely no time for anything else.

He asked, "How is your friend Mary?"

She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, but was very popular on campus, didn't have a job, and went to all the parties. She was always complaining about not having any money, but didn't want to work. Why, she often didn't show up for classes because she was hung over.

Dad then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the Dean's office and request that 1.0 be taken off her 4.0 and given it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a respectable 3.0 GPA. Then, she could also give her friend half the money she'd earned from her job so that her friend would no longer be broke.

The daughter angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair. I worked really hard for my grades and money, and Mary just loafs. Why should her laziness and irresponsibility be rewarded with half of what I've worked for?"

The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party".

That homeless guy doesn't clean up poop most likely for the same reason my alcoholic uncle would rather stay in jail than go to rehab. Existence of rules and submission to authority. In rehab he has to follow someone else's rules, while in jail it's different. 99% of those homeless guys can find work. There are plenty of opportunities to "go clean up poop." But then again, doesn't stop me from throwing some dollars their way usually.

I recognize the diversity of people by all means. I also recognize some people are dealt a bad hand from the start, but I shouldn't be forced give my money and resources away to those people. There's too much room for corruption and laziness (ie. welfare). There's no incentive to get a job or "do better".

I like this analogy better. A little more depth to the "analogy" than Daniel's:

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, but her father was a staunch Republican. One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to high taxes and welfare programs.

He stopped her and asked her, "How are you doing in school?"

She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA, but it was really tough. She had to study all the time and ever had time to go out and party. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because she was spending all her time studying. On top of that, the part-time job her father insisted she keep left absolutely no time for anything else.

He asked, "How is your friend Mary?"

She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, but was very popular on campus, didn't have a job, and went to all the parties. She was always complaining about not having any money, but didn't want to work. Why, she often didn't show up for classes because she was hung over.

Dad then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the Dean's office and request that 1.0 be taken off her 4.0 and given it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a respectable 3.0 GPA. Then, she could also give her friend half the money she'd earned from her job so that her friend would no longer be broke.

The daughter angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair. I worked really hard for my grades and money, and Mary just loafs. Why should her laziness and irresponsibility be rewarded with half of what I've worked for?"

The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party".

The outcome that I wish would've occurred would've been two to center mass on the perp. Now he just lives to rob some other sheeple another day. Scum.

Problem is, if your friend had put two into this guy like he deserved, he would've been arrested, possibly charged and then even sued in civil court by the offender's family. What kind of screwed up world is that when the victim gets penalized? I say one less thug the better.

The outcome that I wish would've occurred would've been two to center mass on the perp. Now he just lives to rob some other sheeple another day. Scum.

Problem is, if your friend had put two into this guy like he deserved, he would've been arrested, possibly charged and then even sued in civil court by the offender's family. What kind of screwed up world is that when the victim gets penalized? I say one less thug the better.

"DailyKos for news? That’s about an order of magnitude worse than Fox for legitimacy."

Big +1

"DailyKos for news? That’s about an order of magnitude worse than Fox for legitimacy."

Big +1

Can you explain what you mean when you say Obama will reduce the pressures that are causing crime?

Can you explain what you mean when you say Obama will reduce the pressures that are causing crime?

"I expect the crime numbers for 2008, country wide, to be alarming. More to follow."

Especially if Obama gets elected. People think just because he said after the Heller decision that he supported the 2nd amendment that Obama is just as good as McCain on the 2nd amendment issue. That's not the case however. Obama supported the DC Gun ban, he supports the Chicago gun ban, and continues to steer money to some of the most anti-gun groups that exist.

Criminals will ALWAYS have guns. Surprising to some, criminals don't care about laws or background checks, so 99% of the time, gun control legislation only hurts the law abiding citizens.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Inartful.html
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Mjk5Y2Y2MWY1MDJjYmFkMzM5NDEyMWFiNTAxMDczOTA=

"I expect the crime numbers for 2008, country wide, to be alarming. More to follow."

Especially if Obama gets elected. People think just because he said after the Heller decision that he supported the 2nd amendment that Obama is just as good as McCain on the 2nd amendment issue. That's not the case however. Obama supported the DC Gun ban, he supports the Chicago gun ban, and continues to steer money to some of the most anti-gun groups that exist.

Criminals will ALWAYS have guns. Surprising to some, criminals don't care about laws or background checks, so 99% of the time, gun control legislation only hurts the law abiding citizens.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Inartful.html
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Mjk5Y2Y2MWY1MDJjYmFkMzM5NDEyMWFiNTAxMDczOTA=