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Re: What EXACTLY is "Church"? (part 2) unraveling the crisis

pathlighter25 — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:48:40 -0000

My apologies for any confusion here... I meant the "place" where he laid his head in more of a metaphorical sense of the word, I just included it to emphasize the purpose of the church as the community.However, you seemed to pick up on what I was saying :-)
I think it is important to focus on the gentleness of Jesus, as well as the power put forth in his teachings. I believe a proper balance of the two will actually bring us closer to the true definition of the "church."
To reiterate, most of the discussion seems to be centered around disgust with unsatisfactory methodology and practices, and lack of concern for individuals within the body. In gentleness, we point out these "faults", and move to make positive changes that benefit the whole. Note: the leadership itself (in the hierarchical sense often seen today) may not ever change, but what keeps the people in the "body" from implementing their own changes?
And this should be done in keeping with the concept of power and gentleness brought forth in God's Word. Not done in "bash your neighbor and leaders" sort of manner, but in a reverent manner. I do find that this is somewhat lacking at times when we become disgusted with all the wrong we see. We are eager to change things, or to move away from the rigidity and passivity, but we forget what we came to receive in the first place: more of Jesus. More of that passion that fills our hearts and gives us a desire to live for Him. We find this by taking on His "yoke" and learning from Him.He is meek and humble, and always acts in gentleness.

Re: What EXACTLY is "Church"? (part 2) unraveling the crisis

pathlighter25 — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:38:46 -0000

I wanted to share an important statement I heard today from a guest preacher at our church. He was telling a story of a young girl in a Bible class with one of her professors talking about the turning away of the church from the Bible, and becoming more of a business, etc. The young girl raised her hand, and asked her professor if it was true that the church is typically defined as being a body of believers coming together with one purpose in mind... to worship the Lord. The professor admitted that such was true, but the girl wasn't finished yet. She then said this:
"If the church is supposed to be comprised of a body of believers, yet has become more of a business, hasn't the church become more like a prostitute than what God intended it to be?"
I love this statement for so many reasons... are we selling our "body" for material gain, or are we truly uniting together to draw closer to Jesus? Jesus' teachings are so simple, yet we make his message so complicated when we warp in the cloaks of self- righteousness, business, denominations, etc. Think about who Jesus was when he was on earth... a simple looking man who was homeless, and relied on the body (the church) for a place to sleep,yet never sacrificed the message of truth as a result of his status in life. He was relevant without complicated sound systems, media, or even a church building. The mountainside, country, and even a garden was a teaching place. People loved and flowed him just for these reasons... he was genuine, he cared about people for who they were, not for what they could give him. And he didn't judge, condemn, or criticize anyone. His message was the same for the tax collector, the thief on the cross, and the rich young ruler.
How can you not love a man like that, or want to be more like him? Back to simplicity, the true heart of worship... it's all about Jesus.

Re: What Exactly is "Church"?

pathlighter25 — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:22:47 -0000

Michelle here....

Dale, I've worked in ministry for over 3 years on a church team, and we pretty much helped build it up from the ground. But the people I started to work with had a squabble (of sorts) with the head pastor, etc... and left this church to start another ministry elsewhere. I have also left in the past year to go to a new church where I am quite happy now. But the reason for all the shuffle among our team was based on being disgruntled about what the church was offering, and I learned some important concepts here:
1. Everyone comes to church with different expectations, and ideas of how they should be spiritually fed. Some feel it's through the music , other the preaching, others the extended ministries of the church (youth groups, married/couples nights, etc.) and if they are not "fed" according to their expectations,they leave upset
2. Church , according to the Bible, is a gathering together or fellowshipping with believers. It is not about rituals, formalities, or anything of the kind. The believers in Paul's day met in houses, and were not about rituals, etc. Why do we expect that today?
3. Despite the groups/activities we form in our "church", is there a true connection being made? Paul's type of church worked since people connected outside of the confined walls. They lived in the community with each other, ate, slept, laughed, and played together. How do we connect with each other? Is it just a Sunday thing to do , and we never see each other elsewhere?
As you can see, I have never been about formalities and what people typically "perceive"church to be. I believe that the only way to change the "bad feelings" is to change our thinking of the church into God's thinking. See what he says about it, and follow after the patterns already laid down for us. Not get so tied up in dogma we can't see it and benefit from it.