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Re: Broken Traditions? Intercultural Marriage and Cultural Continuity

mocroidh — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:13:17 -0000

Glad to hear you've been able to strike a good balance and hopefully alleviate your mom's concerns over time! I agree that it's something that will probably get better over the long term. We live here in the U.S. and don't have any plans to move to India in the foreseeable future (though I don't think we've ruled it out completely - one never knows!), so I think we should be able to handle the whole cultural continuity thing just fine. Given that I'm a U.S. historian to boot, our future kids will probably be absolutely sick of American history by the time I'm done with them! Sometimes it's hard to see why my mom doesn't put all these factors together and realize that she has nothing to worry about, but then, I have to remind myself that she's responding emotionally, not rationally here.

My mom's concern I think also has to do with a larger worry over how much time she'll get to spend with her future grandchildren. Given that my husband's parents are living with us, she's naturally worried that our kids will end up being closer to them. Plus, she has an ongoing conflict with my younger sister over how much time she gets to spend with her children, so there's that history thrown into the mix. Once our future kids are old enough, I think we'll definitely be sending them off to spend at least a couple of weeks in the summer with Grandma (vacation for us!).

Re: Broken Traditions? Intercultural Marriage and Cultural Continuity

mocroidh — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:18:07 -0000

Yup, I think our mom's might have been separated at birth (in the grand tradition of Bollywood cinema...lol!) It is incredibly frustrating, not only because I hate to hear these kinds of comments coming from my mom (I mean, jeez, do you hear what you sound like?), but also because there really isn't much I can say to alleviate her concerns. I think time will be the best remedy here - once she sees a bit more of our new family's culture, and once she realizes that we're planning to honor both heritages, hopefully a lot of her worries will fade. Next time we talk about this, I'll let you know how it goes!

Re: Broken Traditions? Intercultural Marriage and Cultural Continuity

mocroidh — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:50:29 -0000

I love this post! If and when I have another difficult conversation with my mother about these issues, I'm definitely going to give it to her to read. She worries that I'm somehow "losing" my cultural traditions, or that our future children will not be fully "American." It's frustrating for me to deal with her concerns, because I'm coming at this from a fundamentally different perspective. So it was great to see this post! Not that I think it will automatically change her mind, but maybe it'll help her see where I'm coming from a bit more clearly.

I was talking this over with my husband last night, and I asked him why his parents didn't seem as concerned over the whole cultural continuity issue as my mom did. He replied that he thought it WAS a concern of theirs, but that they were more accepting of the fact that cultural traditions often shift and change. Given their experience as immigrants (coming to a country that was totally different from the one they had left), they had learned to be flexible, holding on to those traditions (like their religion, for example) that really mattered to them but also changing or at least recognizing that some things would be different here. Whereas my mother, having never lived abroad and having a very strong sense of her roots and traditions, isn't used to having to confront this issue. Anyway, I thought this was interesting. As other commenters have pointed out, while immigrants often face a difficult dilemma over how to maintain or preserve their cultural traditions in their new home, the immigrant experience can also give one a broader perspective and a more flexible/open attitude toward intercultural experiences.

Re: Intercultural Interviews: Indian Parents’ Perspective (Part One)

mocroidh — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:27:23 -0000

Okay, so I spent a good few minutes of time trying to understand MMDP's point, based on her words. Took me back to reading student papers! I finally had to get the second view of my husband to decipher what MMDP might have meant from the somewhat garbled explanation above. What I think she's trying to say is that when Gori's FIL used the word "girlfriend," he probably meant "a girl who is a friend," with little to no sexuality involved at all. In other words, a platonic relationship.

While one could probably make the gross generalization that many "White Americans" would associate the word "girlfriend" with a sexual relationship, that certainly isn't true for all sub-cultures within the U.S. In a hardcore Mormon or evangelical Christian community, for example, "girlfriends" and "boyfriends" might not necessarily be in a sexual relationship (or at least not openly to their parents!). This just points out the problem with generalizing.

As to the final comment, wow. The level of condescension is almost staggering here (to the point of being kind of amusing, actually). Why should Gori (or any of us involved in relationships with Desis, for that matter) "defer" when being "taught" the so-called "Indian perspective"? As if there is a single "Indian perspective" that somehow is injected into all Desis upon birth? And (as my husband rightly pointed out) as if by virtue of being in a relationship with a Desi individual, Gori (and the rest of us by proxy) aren't at least in some measure becoming "Desi" ourselves?

Seems like MMDP is a rather angry individual. There's really no reason for such hostility and negativity!

Re: To Hug or Not to Hug: More on Meeting the Parents

mocroidh — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:30:56 -0000

'I’ve heard complaints about how no one in an eastern culture has time to look after their own affairs because their too busy looking after other’s."

My husband and I had a conversation about this a few days ago, specifically about how Indians and non-Indians have very different views on family/community obligations and independence. As he put it, it's a trade off. On the one hand, if you are part of an Indian community, everyone is going to be all up in your business all the time, and (at least to some extent) you have to conform to some very complex social rules and norms (like having to attend every wedding/baby shower/anniversary party of people you've never even met, or bending over backwards to show regard to people you might not be all that close to). On the other hand, when you need support or help from the community, you know they'll be there for you and do everything they can to help you. So there are some good things and some not-so-good things about belonging to an Indian community (as with just about everything in life!).

This balancing of individualism/community is certainly one of the things that requires adjustment (from both sides, ideally) when entering into an intercultural relationship.

Re: Following the Iran Elections Aftermath

mocroidh — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:25:44 -0000

Yesterday here in LA I was driving past the federal building on Wilshire Blvd, and the Iranian-Americans were lining the street in a solidarity protest...probably about 200-300 people in all. Holding signs that read "Say no to the coup" or with a picture of Ahmadinejad and the words "Not my president" underneath. Quite an inspiring sight - I gave a couple of honks in support. The pictures coming out of Iran are really amazing...

Re: Indianfied Chicken Pot Pie

mocroidh — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:28:33 -0000

Well said, D!

Sometimes I think people (not necessarily white people or Indian people, but all kinds of people) have instinctual trouble grasping the fact that interracial couples come together for the same reasons that all couples come together - because they fall in love. In their minds, it must be for some other reason - because to admit that an interracial couple (or any couple that violates so-called societal norms - gay couples would fall into this category too) are together because they love each other would be somehow invalidating to their own notions of what is correct and "normal."

And I happen to already have a PhD, while my husband is still working on his. And while my degree is in History, why is that any less valid an academic pursuit than the "hard sciences"?

Re: Indianfied Chicken Pot Pie

mocroidh — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:47:03 -0000

To bring this comment thread back to the ACTUAL topic, I actually made the Indianfied Chicken Pot Pie this evening! My MIL really loves chicken pot pie, so this was perfect. It turned out really well, though I think I'll modify the spice ratio a bit next time. My husband said it was like pao bhaji (I'll have to take his word for it, cause I've never tried that).

A couple of questions for Gori, though: does it store well, and is it good as leftovers? There's more than half the pan left - it made a ton! :)

Re: Words on Hindostan - Part One

mocroidh — Tue, 19 May 2009 02:50:27 -0000

As a historian, I'm not too surprised at Mortimer's viewpoints. It would be more surprising, for me, to see a 19th century text on India written by a Victorian British woman that DIDN'T have that "colonial gaze." When looking at historical documents like this one, it's awfully tempting to read it with a "presentist" eye and dismiss it as hopelessly racist, orientalist, colonialist, etc. We have the luxury of looking at the writings of Mortimer and realizing that she is approaching her subject from a particularly narrow and biased view. No one today, for example (or at least I hope no one!), would take her description of India at face-value and think, "Well, that's exactly how it was in India in the 19th century." Where a text like this can be useful is in giving us insight into how a person living in 19th century England might have thought about life in India at that time. And yes, on the whole it's both uninformed and ridiculously biased, by 21st century standards. But is it appropriate to apply 21st century standards to a 19th century text?

I was actually struck by how moderate Mortimer's views on India were. Sure, there's that whole bit about the "heathens" (pretty standard fare for a 19th century missionary) and the overall tone of "look how strange and backward and weird it is in India - aren't you glad, children, that you live in a nice, modern, civilized country like England?" But her characterizations weren't entirely negative, which you might expect in a text from this era (and which there are many similar examples in other 19th century primary sources). Though if we consider the aim of this text (to try and convince eager young missionaries to go to those exotic lands in the East), that might just be Mortimer's attempt to sell India as a destination. But on the whole, I found it to be a much more complex document that it might appear on the surface.

Part of the fun of being a historian is getting to look at stuff like this and really take it apart, examining documents not only for basic historical facts but for what they can tell us about the mindset of the people who created them. I always tell my students that people in the past thought very differently than we do today, and one of the most interesting things about history for me is trying to understand the mindset, the worldview of people in the past. And of course, we always have to keep in mind the gaps or silences in these documents - what are they NOT telling us? For example, it would be awfully enlightening if we were to compare Mortimer's views with an account of life in 19th-century India written by an Indian. And it would be even more illuminating if we had an account of life in 19th-century India written by an Indian villager, like those described in Mortimer's text. The problem, of course, is that not everyone in the past was able to leave behind the kind of historical record that might survive into the present for us to examine. So our picture of history will always be inherently incomplete. But we do the best with what we have, and try to always keep those gaps or silences in mind.

Re: Have You Ever Felt Guilty About Your Intercultural Relationship?

mocroidh — Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:42:50 -0000

I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties, Aisha - I can only imagine how hard it must be to be feeling such guilt and conflicting emotions. On the one hand, you must be feeling pretty bad about breaking up with your boyfriend, but on the other, you are probably feeling terrible about potentially causing such drama and anxiety in your family. It's tough...

Here are my thoughts, prefaced by a little background on where I'm coming from (I'm a white American woman married to a Punjabi Sikh man who came to the U.S. nearly 30 years ago. His parents are currently living with us, and fortunately, there's been no drama from his family regarding our intercultural relationship.):

You mentioned in your original post that your boyfriend loves and accepts you unconditionally, but then you commented that you knew it would be difficult for him to live both in the western and eastern worlds. Have you guys talked about this? Is he open to the idea of embracing at least some aspects of Desi culture? Does he want to meet your parents? If the answer is yes to these questions, I think perhaps you can take comfort from the fact that if you do decide to get back together and tell your parents about your relationship, you may be able to weather any potential storms together. By demonstrating that he is committed to you and willing to embrace at least some of your cultural background, he may be able to alleviate some of your parents' fears about what an intercultural relationship for you might mean. If you take an honest look at your relationship and decide that the answer to the above questions is no, then sadly, perhaps it's better that you have gone your separate ways. After all, you deserve to be loved by someone who accepts/embraces all aspects of who you are, including the aspects of your identity that are Indian (and similarly, he deserves to be loved by someone who can accept/embrace aspects of his own cultural identity as well).

Above all, I think honesty and open communication are crucial in any relationship, whether it be romantic or familial. If you and your boyfriend haven't already talked about how to make your intercultural relationship work, and how to resolve your feelings of fear and guilt, then you should at least try to sit down and discuss these things. And if you do decide to make your relationship known to your parents, you need to be open and honest with them as well. As Auroracoda suggested, speaking with your parents as an adult, respectfully but firmly, is the way to go here. Be honest with them about your fears and concerns as well. There may be all kinds of drama, but if your love is strong and if you are willing to be patient, the storms may eventually subside.

Re: Wait… I Thought This Was MY House!

mocroidh — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:08:00 -0000

Very insightful comment, jijibean! This part in particular struck me:

"I've also given up new bottles of nice perfume, purses, and make-up to my MIL. V couldn't understand why I would be upset. He just said he would buy me new stuff. At the time I remember thinking, "but those were mine, how can you just give them to your mom because she wanted them?"

Maybe it's because I was the one coming into the communal living situation as a (sort-of) guest, but I've encountered almost the opposite problem. When I first arrived on the scene, my now-MIL was *constantly* buying me stuff or giving me things - it's lessened somewhat, but she'll still give me "good will" money, or if I just mention off-hand that I like something, she'll automatically go and buy it or give it to me. Of course, it's lovely to receive gifts, but it's also a little uncomfortable for me. The flip side of this is that when I buy her gifts, she's very appreciative, but she either puts them away and won't use them, or she says she'll give them back to me later! Coming from a family/culture where gifts are something you're supposed to use and enjoy (or discreetly return if you don't like them), I've found it a little hard to get used to the Desi gift-giving culture - the re-gifting, buying random items to give as gifts to people, etc.

Maybe there's a cultural difference at work here over one's relationship to personal objects. As you mentioned, the Desi way of relating to "stuff" (i.e., the things you own) is a lot more communal. And there's a certain beauty in the "what's mine is yours" attitude that I think I wouldn't have been aware of or been able to appreciate had I not joined a Desi family.

Re: Wait… I Thought This Was MY House!

mocroidh — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:35:50 -0000

Colleen, I'm one of those who is currently living with her in-laws. My husband's parents were living with him (he's the only son) before we got married, and they'll likely be living with us pretty much permanently (unless he gets a job somewhere else and we have to move, but I imagine they'd eventually move back in with us in any case). It's certainly a unique situation, and one that has both benefits and drawbacks. Like you, I've found it a challenge to be living with so many people, especially after having been pretty much on my own for quite a while (I had roommates, but it's not the same thing). See my post above for more on this. Fortunately, I think we've found a pretty good balance - I don't feel as though I'm deprived of "alone-time", and my husband and I make an effort to spend time together, just the two of us. Occasionally, it'll irk me a bit - case in point, last night, we were planning to go out to see a Hindi movie (Delhi-6 - I'd highly recommend it) and my in-laws decided to come along. For a while, I was a little bothered - I'd been looking forward to having some time with just my husband. But they ended up seeing a different movie, so I got to have time with my husband and we got to go out together as a family - the best of both worlds. For the most part, I really love living with my in-laws - it's just more people to love and care for you (and for you to love and care for), and who doesn't love that? :)

I've also been struggling to manage my own mom's reactions to my living situation - she's got similar concerns to yours, as I think we've already talked about a bit elsewhere. Haven't quite figured this all out yet, but it helps to know there are other "gori girls" out there dealing with the same problem!

Anyway, if you'd like to chat about this off-site, feel free to contact me via email: meg at sethi dot org.

Re: Intercultural Marriage Fluff

mocroidh — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:56:33 -0000

I just heard about this independently, and watched it and LOVED it! So beautifully done, and hilarious to boot. I was just going to make a post about it here, but you beat me to it! Sita Sings the Blues is awesome! :)

Re: Intercultural Marriage Fluff

mocroidh — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 02:57:41 -0000

Oooooh, these are fun! Here are my answers:

How long have you been together?
We've been married for a little over 8 months now, together for a little over four years.

How long did you know each other before you started dating?
Hmmmm, interesting question... In our case, we met through Match.com, so we had been corresponding for about a month or so before we first met. We had our first meeting and then our first official date, and we've been together ever since. So not long at all, I guess!

Who asked whom out?
He was the one to contact me first, so I guess you could say that he made the first move. Ordinarily, I wouldn't probably have gone for someone like him, simply based on his picture (this is not to say he's not a handsome guy, but just not the type I would have thought I'd be attracted to), but his optimism and love for life really came through in his emails. So I went for it, and I'm sure glad I did! :)

How old are each of you?
I'm in my early 30s, he's in his late 30s. We're 7 years apart. Neither of us look our age, though. Once, we were in a casino in Reno and a woman there thought I was honestly underage and that Ricky was doing something illegal! I still get carded sometimes, and I'm starting to appreciate that a lot more than I did when I was in my 20s... :)

Whose siblings do you see the most?
His, surprisingly. Ricky has 2 sisters, who live in Texas and Florida, and I have one sister, who lives in Iowa. But we end up getting together with his sisters much more often than we do with mine. I've actually spoken with his sisters more frequently than I have with my own in the past couple of months. Sort of an unfortunate situation, but I'm trying to remedy it.

Which situation is the hardest on you as a couple?
Hmmmm, I guess I'd have to say the thing I've found most difficult to deal with is the whole "Indian time" thing. I've always been a hyper-punctual person, so getting used to people (my husband included) who have a looser conception of what it means to be on time has been a challenge! Similarly, I still have trouble sometimes when I just want to get stuff done quickly and efficiently, and he wants to be measured and take his time. I like things to be more planned out and don't do too well with change (though I'm getting better at this), while he's more spontaneous and adaptable in many situations. But we've had many conversations about this, and I think we're gradually coming to a great happy medium on this issue!

Did you go to the same school?
No, though I almost went to his undergraduate university - but given that we're 7 years apart, there's no way we could have been there together. While he was in college, I was still in middle school!

Are you from the same home town?
Not at all - I'm a California native, and he was born in India, then moved to California when he was 10.

Who is smarter?
I suppose you'd have to define what you mean by "smart" first. He's pretty brilliant, and has much more of a head for numbers and logical thinking - and he's almost always right about almost everything (which can be a really annoying, though useful, trait!) I'm probably the better writer, and I'm quicker on the uptake and have more of a head for trivia (i.e., useless facts). But we're both over-educated! :)

Who is the most sensitive?
That would be me, at least as far as emotions go. Though he can be easily irritated at times!

Where do you eat out most as a couple?
We've got our favorite restaurants, but we also like trying new places a lot, so I'm not sure we have one place we really frequent more than any other. We like to eat a lot of sushi (and living in So Cal we have plenty of places to get it), and there's a Mexican restaurant down the street we've been to a couple of times. When we were dating we ate a lot of Mediterranean food (given that there was a restaurant right across the street from my apartment), and we went to Coldstone Creamery a lot (sadly, our diets no longer permit such indulgences). We also frequent a local taco chain (Ricky's almost obsessed with their all-meat burritos), and we order in a lot of pizza.

Where is the furthest that you two have traveled together as a couple?
Zihuatenjo, Mexico - our honeymoon destination, and Orlando, Florida, for a conference of his that I tagged along for. We were planning to go to India this past December, but we've postponed the trip for later this year. Furthest road trip - driving me to and from a teaching job in Minnesota last year.

Who has the craziest exes?
I'm going to have to say Ricky, definitely. Of course, in his fantasy there WAS no man for me before he came along because I was a lesbian (I went to a women's college, right?). I let him have his little fantasy... :)

Who has the worst temper?
I'm more the flash-in-the-pan type of person, while Ricky's the slow burning embers of rage type.

Who does the cooking?
That would be me. Ricky claims he's a good cook, but I have yet to see much evidence for his claims. He does a great job with the BBQ, though. But given that I love to cook, this isn't really much of a problem.

Who is the neat freak?
Oh, that would be him. He's got a very mild case of OCD, so germs and having stuff not in the place he left it really bugs him. But I'm not a total slob, so I'm happy to accommodate his neat freakishness.

Who is more stubborn?
I think I'd have to say he is. I'm definitely more quick to change, while he takes a little longer.

Who hogs the bed?
Again, he's more of a bed hog. He will actually pull the covers up from the end of the bed and wrap them around his head while he sleeps. Making the bed every day is a continual chore.

Who wakes up earlier?
Me. I've always been an early riser - I take after my dad that way. Ricky, on the other hand, can sometimes sleep til noon if he doesn't have anywhere else to be. Of course, he often stays up til 4 or 5 in the morning working, so I let him have his beauty sleep. Living with a computer geek... :)

Where was your first date?
Our first meeting was at a coffeehouse. Our first actual date was at an Indian restaurant (my choice).

Who is more jealous?
I think he is - but neither of us really has ever had any cause for jealousy in our relationship.

How long did it take to get serious?
For me, it was about 4 or 5 months into our relationship that I realized I was in love with him. Ricky loves to tell the story of how when one of his friends met me for the first time (this was a couple of months in), he said to Ricky, "Wouldn't it be weird if someday, you guys got married?" Ricky says that's when he knew I was the one... :)

Who eats more?
I eat a lot faster, but in terms of sheer quantity, Ricky eats more.

Who does the laundry?
Me. Though I like Gori's idea of me separating out the laundry and then getting him to do a couple of loads! :)

Who's better with the computer?
Oh, him definitely. Ricky's getting his Ph.D. in Computer Science, so he'd better be the better one with the computer!

Who drives when you are together?
Ricky, always. I always offer, especially on long trips, but he's ever the gentleman and always powers through.

Re: South Asian Women and Nepalis in Intercultural Relationships - Speak Out!

mocroidh — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 20:58:30 -0000

We've got a couple of these relationships in Ricky's extended family - two of his cousins are Indian women (I'm not sure whether they were born in India, though) married to white American men. Their relationships seem to be pretty solid - both couples have kids who are teenagers, so they've been together for quite awhile. I think I remember hearing something about how when Ricky's cousin P brought her boyfriend home, there was a certain amount of drama...but it's so long ago now that I don't think anyone even thinks about it any more. We've got some great footage of their husbands dancing bhangra at our wedding! From what I could observe, it seems like both husbands have done a lot to embrace Desi culture. Next time we see them I'll have to ask them about their experiences...

Re: Initial Family Resistance to your Intercultural Relationship

mocroidh — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 12:54:57 -0000

Wow, Pardesi, if that's what it means to be a feminist then I sure as hell don't want to be one! I would consider myself a feminist - and having attended a women's college here in the United States, believe me I am well versed in the whole "down with the patriarchy" thing - and yet I am realistic and mature enough to know that being in a relationship means having to change yourself in a number of ways and possibly make accommodations to your partner. It goes both ways, you know - men have to change themselves for women, and women for men. And "changing yourself for your man" can actually be a positive thing! Now, I agree that neither person should be forced to surrender their core values - but in that case, it's not a truly loving relationship where each partner is accepted and loved for who they are. And in that case, I might urge a person involved in such a relationship to take a good look at it and decide whether it works for them - but such advice would have to be offered on a case-by-case basis. I would also keep in mind that you can never really know the true dynamics of a relationship simply by observing it from the outside. You may know a couple very well - but you don't know what they are like together when you are not around, you don't know their full history. So passing judgment upon other people's relationships is really impossible.

I'm willing to assume that you probably don't want to offend most of the regular women who read this blog by asserting that they're all simpering idiots who have compromised themselves as strong, independent feminist women by entering into a relationship with an Indian man - but I'm afraid that might be what you've done.

Re: Initial Family Resistance to your Intercultural Relationship

mocroidh — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 21:04:10 -0000

Sorry, Pardesi - I wrote and posted my comment before I had refreshed and saw your last response!

Re: Initial Family Resistance to your Intercultural Relationship

mocroidh — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 20:53:35 -0000

I'd echo GG and sf_sg regarding the generalization thing, and just add a reminder that India is an incredibly huge place, with over a billion people and a lot of very different and diverse cultures. I think sometimes people (myself included) tend to forget that, and to assume when they're speaking about India that all people and places there are similar. Thus, while the families and villages that Pardesi says she lived in might have conformed to the more traditional gender role dynamics, not every family or locale in India will do so.

I'm also wondering, Pardesi, whether your stated purpose for living in India - "religious stuff and volunteerism" - might be contributing to your view of Indian families. That is, were you a missionary, targeting poorer areas that might be more traditional, culturally? If so, is it possible that your view of Indian families might be skewed, based on the subset of the population you were ministering to? I'm sure, despite having lived in India for 13 years, you can't possibly have seen or been exposed to every single aspect of Indian culture. After all, I've lived in the U.S. all my life, and there are still some areas of the country I've never seen and some aspects of American culture that I'm unfamiliar with. It's important, I think, to be willing to recognize where one's own views might be shaped by particular circumstances.

Re: Cross-Cultural Connections in your Community

mocroidh — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:25:01 -0000

I think that might be another reason my mom at least is having trouble with the cross-cultural thing...she's never lived outside the country, and has only ever visited Great Britain, Ireland, Canada, and very briefly Mexico. I think she just has never gotten the opportunity to really venture outside her comfort zone and experience a different way of life - thus, her labeling American culture as "normal" and not realizing that her grandkids will automatically be American, despite or in addition to having an Indian heritage.

I think the most frustrating thing for me is that some of her comments just seem so ignorant and even vaguely xenophobic. I know she means well and would never intentionally want to hurt anyone, but I can't help but cringe when she says things like, "I want your children to be normal!" or "Why would you want to listen to that awful music?" or "You aren't going to convert to Sikhism, are you?" It's a good lesson for me in patience, I think! :)

Re: Cross-Cultural Connections in your Community

mocroidh — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:16:28 -0000

Hmmmm, maybe our mothers have secretly been in cahoots, because some of the things you mentioned your moms saying were almost word-for-word quotations from MY mother! The whole thing about being "normal," the fear that her grandkids won't be "American"...I heard it all. I think perhaps it might be a generational issue, perhaps - as we become more and more of a global society, maybe people will become more used to cross-cultural connections. But for people of our parents' generation, who grew up in a world that was much less connected than our world is now, such connections might seem a little strange or worrisome.

Re: Cross-Cultural Connections in your Community

mocroidh — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:42:55 -0000

Funny you bring that up, Colleen...I was visiting my parents this weekend, and had a conversation on this very topic with my mother. I'm not exactly sure how the conversation started, but basically she had similar concerns. Namely, she was worried that I've adopted a lot of the Indian culture, and that our children (non-existent as yet!) were not going to be "American enough" as they grow up, partly due to the fact that she worries they will be unduly influenced by my husband's parents, who live with us. Ricky's mom has never really adopted many of the external hallmarks of American culture (dress, cuisine, entertainment, etc.) and so she worries that our children will be forced somehow to conform to a more Indian way of life. I tried to reassure her on a number of levels - that Ricky and I and not Ricky's parents are going to be the primary caregivers, that while his mom doesn't seem very "Americanized" outwardly, her attitudes and ways of thinking are very Westernized, and that while we have every intention of raising our children with the knowledge of their Indian heritage, they will also be raised with the knowledge of their American heritage as well. But it was a frustrating conversation on the whole, because while she's making a really good effort, I just don't think my mom is as comfortable with cross-cultural connections as I am. As you put it, I'm not exactly getting "gushing acceptance and cultural sensitivity" from her. Maybe this is a generational thing, I don't know. I'd definitely be interested in a forum on this topic, because I don't think it's an issue that's been discussed very much on this or other intercultural relationship sites I've come across.

Anyone else have similar experiences, or thoughts on this issue?

Re: Cross-Cultural Connections in your Community

mocroidh — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:52:35 -0000

Well, living in Southern California you automatically get a lot of cross-cultural connections! Ricky and I live in a predominantly Chinese area, but we've visited areas that are dominated by people from all over the globe (Japan, Korea, China, India, Russia, Armenia, Mexico, Ethiopia, etc.) as well as predominantly WASP-y locales. One of the great things about living in a large city like LA or NY is that you have access to just about any sort of cross-cultural experience you might wish.

In addition, since meeting Ricky I would have to say that my personal cross-cultural experience has definitely expanded. Our circle of friends includes (among others): an Indian couple; a guy from Turkey; a guy from Italy; two brothers from Ecuador (one of whom is currently living with a girl who's got a really diverse background - so much so that I can't remember all the places where her family hails from!); a Japanese-American girl (my best friend from college) and her boyfriend, a white guy from upstate NY; and my best friend from grad school, who's Jewish/Irish and her husband. Our wedding party (which also included my little sister) was quite the patchwork quilt (the poor wedding coordinator at the church had to keep track of all those crazy names)! Most of these friends were originally Ricky's, but now they're ours, and I truly feel blessed to know them all.

Speaking of "crazy names", I remember reading an article a month or two back on how people who have less-than-traditional names here in the U.S. are now feeling a bit less self-conscious or more accepted, given that our President now sports the decidedly non-WASPy name of Barack Obama. It was kind of a fluff piece, but I thought I'd mention it here since it seems relevant to the discussion. Maybe we all collectively have more cross-cultural connections now? :)

Re: ESL Tutoring - or How We Met

mocroidh — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:37:24 -0000

Very cute story, GG! Ricky liked it as well. :)

BTW, we're in SoCal, and yes, it's been about 80 degrees here the past few days. All I can say is that after having experienced a Midwestern winter last year (I was teaching for a year at the University of Minnesota), I'm very glad to be back in the land of sunshine and palm trees and balmy weather in the winter! :)

Re: Arranged Marriages and Intercultural Relationships

mocroidh — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:45:39 -0000

I was struck by a couple of things in your post, Alison. First of all, I'm very sorry for the pain you're feeling over your relationship - that really comes through in your post, and while I haven't experienced similar heartache over my intercultural relationship, I empathize with how hard it must be to feel as though you are being rejected for something you have no control over.

You mentioned that your boyfriend was originally from a rural Punjabi family, but that you're both now in Australia. How did he end up leaving his home and coming to a foreign country? It just strikes me that if his parents were probably willing to allow him to leave home and go abroad, they might not be as close-minded as you and he would anticipate. Of course, from their perspective, they were probably thinking that he would go abroad to further his career, not find a gori girlfriend! But I would argue that to allow your child to move far away from you, even for purely pragmatic reasons, takes a certain amount of openness and willingness to give your child not just roots, but wings (to quote one of my mother's favorite sayings).

You mentioned that your boyfriend feels a big responsibility toward his parents. While that's all well and good (certainly he should feel a sense of responsibility towards them, and you probably wouldn't want to be with someone who didn't feel any connection to their family), what about his responsibility towards you...and towards himself? This may be a more "westernized" way of looking at it, but I can't help but think that ultimately, making your family happy at the expense of your own ultimate happiness cannot be a healthy way to live your life.

You said, "But he argued that no matter what I did, they would still never feel comfortable with me… from the simple things like not being able to understand their favorite tv show, little jokes, music… me being a progressive western woman is so foreign to them." I think he's not giving you or his parents enough credit here. Of course, it may take a considerable amount of time and effort for his parents to feel comfortable with you, and vice versa, but I imagine that ultimately, a certain comfort and ease with each other would arise. You come from different cultures, certainly, but you are both human beings with the same basic needs, wants, desires, etc. I'm an American girl married to an Indian man, and his parents are currently living with us. While I don't understand everything about what they enjoy (tv shows, jokes, music, etc.), I haven't found their culture to be so utterly foreign that I have absolutely no point of reference from which to make a connection with them. And even if your cultures are different, you can each learn from each other - I believe there's a great deal of positivity in that.

You also said, "It is hard for me to understand why men become involved with us in the first place, if they never have any intention of becoming serious. It makes me feel like a toy, and it hurts so very much." Here's where the pain you're feeling comes through most clearly, and I'm really sorry you've been hurt so much. I wish I had an easy answer for you, aside from the standard "Guys are sometimes real idiots." If I were face to face with him, I would tell your boyfriend that you are worth being loved for exactly who you are, and that if he can't do that for whatever reason, then maybe it's time for you both to move on. That sucks, but sometimes life is pretty sucky. But I would also say that if you do try to stay together and make it work, it may not be the easiest route to take, but ultimately the reward may be a thousand times more satisfying. You and he need to decide together whether you think that reward (the potential of a lifetime of happiness and love together) is worth facing the hardships you may encounter along the way.

Re: A Tremendous Overachievement in a Community of Overachievers

mocroidh — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:39:20 -0000

I thought this bit on The Daily Show this week was really hilarious...spot on work by Mandvi!

On a somewhat related note, congrats to the cast and crew of Slumdog Millionaire for their Golden Globes wins tonight! I loved that Anil Kapoor grabbed some screen time with both hands, and that they got Shahrukh Kahn to present the film. I also noticed Karan Johar in the audience and wondered what the heck he was doing there - I don't think he was involved with Slumdog Millionaire, was he? Anyway, go Desis! :)