Disqus - Latest Comments for jleemvpc

Re: Will Worship Be flat (Bb)?

Jeff Lee — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:23:48 -0000

I'm responding a month later. I somehow missed your comment Chris.

Your comment hit too close to home with me, especially the "three kids fighting for my attention" description. I constantly wrestle with what you described in terms of worship and the insanity of life. Unlike you, I rarely have anything left in terms of energy after the children go to bed. I sometimes do but I often feel like I need to restart the day and I'll wait until the next morning to carve out some time.

On another note, John 4:23 - what does that mean to you?

Re: Stirring Up Apathetic Spirits: I decided to step away from the church office in...

Jeff Lee — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:49:12 -0000

Nate, I am replying to your throw-down response 4 weeks after the fact. I was thinking long and hard over these 4 weeks about your response... actually, I was just lazy and I forget to check back in on my blog entry for weeks. Let's leave that behind and get to the subject at hand.

I agree with your disagreement (you like that!). I made the assumption that being in relationship with others or connecting with others leads to positive outcome while being in isolation leaves a person unchanged. As I reflect on your thoughts, I agree with you that isolation does not put a person in a bubble that leaves them unchanged. In contrast, that person does change. In fact, the person is more apt to follow his or her natural inclinations apart from the necessary feedback of caring friends and family. Isolation also provides opportunities for secrets and secrets rarely (if ever) lead to a positive situation. We had an in-depth discussion about this at Men's Fraternity this past Wednesday.

So, we agree that there is no self made person. And we now also agree that an isolated person does change and that person often does not change for the positive.

Anyone want to comment on that change?

Re: Fire In The Bones - You too can be strong…

Jeff Lee — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:48:38 -0000

I'm trying but I need to add a basketball component to my workout routine... do I hear Nate Sielaff???

Re: HOW MANY HANDFULS?

Jeff Lee — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:39:16 -0000

Henri Nouwen provides many helpful dichotomies in his books. The productivity vs. fecundity is another one. The word "fecundity" sounds odd at first but your definition helped me understand what it means, especially in contrast to productivity.

The tension between fecundity and productivity applies not only to our individual lives but also at the communal and organizational level. I can think of team after team (whether during my time in software development and also now in full-time church ministry) where this tension plays out.

Your final question points to a comment that you left on my blog (http://stirringupapathetics...) regarding the tension between contemplation and action. As with all things, I see this playing out in life with both extremes being present at various points. For example, one day may call for action without a lot of contemplation. Other days lend themselves to more contemplation without specific action. Overall, the classic circle applies because the most meaningful action oftentimes comes after contemplation and the most meaningful contemplation occurs after an action that needs to be considered with fresh eyes.

Thoughts? I am in the same place with your question though.

Re: HOW MANY HANDFULS?

Jeff Lee — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:34:19 -0000

I like how you described your understanding as "just knowing" when you have wandered off the path. I also find myself "just knowing" when I am engaging in busy work as opposed to meaningful activity. Oftentimes, my busy work is based on a checklist that I make apart from prayer, talking with my wife, considering my children, assessing how it impacts my friends, etc. The basic prayer of "Lord, what do you want me to do today?" is more powerful than we oftentimes can see at first glance. This conversation is a reminder that I need to lift that prayer up every day (and many times throughout the day).

Re: IT's IN The FAMILY

Jeff Lee — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:29:21 -0000

Great observation Andrea. Racism is indeed so deep in our culture that we don't even realize where it exists. I learned more than I could have anticipated at seminary during conversations with those of different races. I struggled through the discussions because I had to resist thinking, "There is no way your point of view can be correct." i came to realize that my assumptions about the world were deeply ingrained in me from my upbringing and that not all of them were true. The shift towards critical thinking about my own life was a turning point for me in considering racism in my own life and how that impacts my life with others.

Did you (or anyone else reading this blog) have a "wake-up" moment regarding racism or has it been a more gradual wake-up or maybe you don't see any issues? Thoughts?

Re: IT's IN The FAMILY

Jeff Lee — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:15:21 -0000

Everything changes when the issues that seem "out there" hit home in our own families. I have had the opportunity to learn from my brother-in-law who is African-American. I still am grateful to my sister who first introduced my brother-in-law to me and my family through descriptions without mentioning anything about his background. In fact, I grew to respect him and I felt like I knew him before I even met him due to my sister's stories. I'll never forget the day that I met him and realized that he was a different race than the rest of my family. At that point, I began to experience the same "in the family" moments like you described.

In response to your post, I want to treat the issue of racism like it is in the family but I often struggle to find ways to do that out here in Maple Valley. There are moments but I found it a lot easier to engage the issue when I lived outside NY City where there was more diversity. With that said, there are more than enough opportunities to get to know others who are different from me.

I'd like to hear more from others about specific ways that they have wrestled with racism in their hearts and how that has played out in their lives.

Re: Worship blog, really worth my time!?

Jeff Lee — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:48:29 -0000

I'm right with you on that one Dixie. I first thought that "Happy Day" was a light-weight song because it seemed so simple. I reviewed the lyrics and realized that the basic confession of Jesus is alive and the resulting joy (happy day) removed my initial reservations about the song.

Re: Worship blog, really worth my time!?

Jeff Lee — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:13:08 -0000

That's a great response to hearing pointed truth in a song. What would happen if we did simply stop the song at a pivotal moment like that?

Re: Walk Across MV

Jeff Lee — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:52:45 -0000

Every story functions as a starting point for follow-up stories and conversations. In many ways, the story that I am about to share fits that description so please feel free to leave a comment with follow-up questions or thoughts.

My story began in New Jersey where I was born as the second child of three. 1 1/2 years later, my sister Taryn was born normal but ended up becoming disabled with cerebral palsy due to hospital negligence. I did not have a close relationship with my parents due to the ongoing challenges that my family faced in caring for her, especially in her initial years. I often felt alone and I filled that need by striving for perfection in order to create a connection with my parents.

Christ found me during my freshman year in high school during a small group Bible study after years of relationships in the church (Sunday school teachers, mentors, friends). I clearly remember reading 1 John 4:10, "This is love: not that we loved but that God first loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins." Shortly thereafter, I heard the gospel message clearly for the first time at a Young Life Camp and I responded to God's love by giving myself to following him. I have experienced the love of a new family since that time - my heavenly Father and my brothers and sisters in Christ. In particular, groups of guys have always been a source of encouragement and challenge to me in each chapter of my life. I can go back through my life and identify group after group of friends who helped me grow in my faith as we shared life together.

God's welcoming me into his family provided a level of freedom from that endless striving for perfection (though it is still there). I am forgiven, accepted and loved for who I am and now I have the opportunity to share that love with others.

Re: Worship blog, really worth my time!?

Jeff Lee — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:25:19 -0000

The song "Yielding" always leads me toward a place of humility before God. In particular, the words "I yield my dreams. I'm yielding all I am to you." I particularly like the musical arrangement of the song. The version that I found online does not sound like the one played at MVPC and I definitely prefer "our" version.

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 2 (cont) - Friday 8:05 PM Will Miller -...

Jeff Lee — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:33:19 -0000

Jan, his comment on being changed externally made me stop and think. We normally here that God is changing us "from the inside out" but he noted the opposite pattern. I found it ironic that one of the Saturday morning worship songs was "From the Inside Out" but that is another story.

How does God change us from the "outside in" based on what Will shared? Is this the 'better' pattern or can it be both? Thoughts?

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 2 (cont) - Friday 8:05 PM Will Miller -...

Jeff Lee — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:50:58 -0000

Thanks for adding these links. It is good to see speakers again in order to recapture some of the flavor of their talks.

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 4 - Saturday 10:50 AM Russ Robinson -...

Jeff Lee — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:49:54 -0000

You do not sound snotty. In fact, one of the fastest ways to ruin a small group discussion is by asking the obvious question and then waiting out the awkward silence when every person knows the answer. I'm glad that Russ Robinson pointed this out in the session. I'd also like to hear from other leaders regarding specific examples of when they adapted the guides for a study.

In fact, we have the opportunity to do that this coming month for the Just Walk Across the Room study. The guides are good but we can personalize the questions based on our knowledge of our group members.

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 4 - Saturday 10:50 AM Russ Robinson -...

Jeff Lee — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:47:34 -0000

Great observation Andrea. Do you see room for a person to serve as a facilitator of a group without feeling like they are "the leader"? Is there really such a thing?

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 2 (cont) - Friday 8:05 PM Will Miller -...

Jeff Lee — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:56:30 -0000

We have also talked about how many in the Pacific Northwest seem to resist invitations to "just come over." The challenge is out there but I still believe that a heartfelt invite can open many doors to friendships that everyone needs.

To answer your question, I see how many join running clubs or other types of meetups in order to get that need met. These are usually based on common interest and probably never go to a deeper level. What have you seen?

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 2 - Friday 7:30 PM Mindy Caliguire,...

Jeff Lee — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:31:26 -0000

Andrea, I agree that most people are longing for this time in their group. "Prayer request" time oftentimes leads to the same sharing (which is not always a bad thing) or the safe/relationally-distant requests for travel.

Your idea of breaking into groups of 2-3 and praying through those questions is a good one. These questions move the individuals toward responsive action in light of what God is doing.

Have you shared these questions with your huddle?

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 2 - Friday 7:30 PM Mindy Caliguire,...

Jeff Lee — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:28:44 -0000

I found this video of Mindy that includes some of the same material that she shared with us during her session - http://www.willowcreek.com/...

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 5 - Saturday 12:50 PM Mark Batterson -...

Jeff Lee — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:11:45 -0000

Thanks for sharing your observations from the conference.

I was convicted also by the same observation regarding "growth" and discipleship levels. I do not believe there are a clear set of conditions for God to 'decide' to grow a church but there is a definite pattern of "to much has been given, much is expected." Stewardship plays out in more ways than we often consider.

In addition, I continue to ask small group pastors from around the country about the different types of groups they utilize. Real Life Church in our area utilizes the affiliation model. I constantly wrestle with the various models of small group ministries out there. I would like to investigate this in a more intentional manner with our coaches and vision team.

Re: Group Life Conference 2008

Jeff Lee — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:49:32 -0000

Last Spring 2008, I received some information about the Group Life Conference simulcast and I prayed about the possibility of MVPC hosting the event. I envisioned a conference that would inspire, equip and strengthen the small group leaders of MVPC. The vision expanded to include churches from the surrounding area after considering the fact that we could gather 100+ individuals who were invested in the same ministry - leading small group gatherings where truth (Jesus Christ ) comes to life.

I was truly blessed to serve with a set of volunteers that functioned as the body of Christ in the weeks leading up to the conference as well as the two-day event. God is definitely at work when the team in the kitchen seemed to be having more fun and getting more out of the conference than the people directly engaging the material. I saw "group life" lived out in the kitchen during the event as vaious gifts were used to serve Christ and many many laughs were shared.

I walk away from this conference with a renewed vision for why God has called us to live a small group life. Small Groups are not part of a church. Small Groups are where God works best in connecting individuals to himself, to one another and to a world that needs God's love, grace and comfort.

Please take a moment to share how God worked in your life through this conference. You can share generally here or post a comment to one of the specific sessions.

In Christ,
Jeff Lee
Associate Pastor of Small Groups @ MVPC

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 6 - Saturday 2:20 PM Miles McPherson -...

Jeff Lee — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:43:03 -0000

I wept tears during this session because God used McPherson to convict me over and over again. Here is what impacted me from the session - We must re-establish your evangelism starting point as the exact place that God has worked in our brokenness. God responds to the cry of his people and he wants to use us as his agents of comfort in this broken world. My heart broke for our Small Groups when I heard this session because I realized how easy it is to go through the motions of ministry without focusing on why God has called us to do all of this in the first place – to share God’s love with a desperate and hopeless world.

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 5 - Saturday 12:50 PM Mark Batterson -...

Jeff Lee — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:39:00 -0000

Here is what impacted me from the Batterson/Zempel session (trust me, it wasn't the chemistry skit) - All Small Group ministries need catalysts to keep pushing forward community. These catalysts will not always take the same form in every context. In fact, one of the primary challenges facing Small Group ministries is the temptation to blindly apply a model and expect automatic outcomes. In light of this, leadership needs to consider experiments in order to discern the way to maximize community in a specific context. My favorite takeaway was Batterson’s use of the phrase “It is just an experiment” whenever he faces resistance to a new initiative.

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 4 - Saturday 10:50 AM Russ Robinson -...

Jeff Lee — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:34:12 -0000

Russ Robinson's session provided more than I could summarize in a paragraph but here is the main thrust of what impacted me - Small Group leaders are called to be with the people in their groups. This notion of “being with” goes beyond merely sitting in the same room. We need to prepare well for meetings so that we are fully engaged with our groups when we meet. We need to move beyond basic questions and open up discussions that lead to interactions between each other. We need to look back after our meetings and assess. We need to take advantage of the 334 hours between meetings. Overall, we need to recognize that being a small group leader is not merely filling a position in a church but it is a calling to “be with” the people God has put under our care.

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 3 - Saturday 9 AM Bill Donahue -...

Jeff Lee — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:59:58 -0000

Here is what I took from Donahue's session - Endless books and conferences can point leaders toward talking about vision without dealing with reality. All ministries need both and there is always a tension between the two. If we fail to focus on reality, then we ignore important feedback and conflict. Small Group ministries that start with the good idea of creating transformational communities but fail to assess the reality of the people involved will eventually become only a “good idea” without any changed lives.

Re: Group Life Conference 2008 - Session 2 (cont) - Friday 8:05 PM Will Miller -...

Jeff Lee — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:56:05 -0000

Here is what impacted me from Miller's sesison - Small Groups in churches have never been more relevant to the challenges of every day life in light of the connectional challenges facing every American. Our me-focused culture promises that if I become the best ME then I get YOU but reality as seen in Scripture is the opposite, meaning that when I engage YOU, then I know ME. Small Groups suffer when the habits that have been ingrained for wreck the relationships that we all desperately need.