Disqus - Latest Comments for groansfromwithin

Re: Inerrancy vs. Infallibility

Kurt Willems — Thu, 16 Sep 2010 16:19:18 -0000

This is great! Just happened to google infallibility and found this post from my web friend! Good thoughts...

Re: Friday Links Round-Up

Kurt Willems — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 17:12:45 -0000

Reading list:

The Bible As Improv, Ron Martoia
Inspiration and Incarnation, Peter Enns
Torah (Hebrew)

And then I have to actually get some work done ;-)

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 16:46:27 -0000

David... that may be a fair question you pose to Noll. However, still not sure that it counts as a "just war". Blessings!

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:38:58 -0000

Wow... Rene! Thanks for your kind words. I pray that I will continue to learn what it is to discern the Holy Spirit's voice... and the same for you. Blessings!

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th May Be Compatible

Kurt Willems — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:55:26 -0000

Wow! Logan, I would sure love to meet you someday and grab coffee... this was a great post. And I want to make a couple of observations.

First, I appreciate that we are clearly on the same page when it comes to the issue of violence and faith. We both affirm that these are incompatible... and yet have respect for those who differ on this point.

Second, you said: "But I’m not convinced the U.S. is all bad." All I can say to this is a resounding AMEN. My post comes across as a bit more frustrated at the US than I actually am. My belief is that everyone has to live somewhere, and I am privileged that I happen to reside in the US. This is a nation that is unlike any in the world, and I have had amazing opportunities having lived here. I say the following in my unabridged version of this article that appears on my personal blog:

“...I have a great deal of respect for those who are Christians and who ‘support’ military and our troops. Those who serve our country (although I may disagree with it from my standpoint theologically) deserve respect for their sacrifices and I am glad to have some friends who have served or are serving in the armed forces...Let me add that I love fireworks, BBQ’s, and any good excuse to hang out with friends. I do not think that by simply attending a July 4th gathering that you are sinning. In fact, I often make the trek to the beach to watch the fireworks over the Pacific… while not choosing to actually ‘celebrate’ the holiday. I also love that I have had the privilege to grow up in this country. So, I am not “anti-America” by any stretch; I am happy that I live here. What I think is that as Christians we need to recalculate our past and allow the Gospel to be critical of certain things we now celebrate.” (see: http://groansfromwithin.com... )

Third, I think you are correct to point out that taxation was not the only cause of this war, however this is what we teach in our schools and what the common person thinks of regarding the Revolutionary War. The motto we hear: "no taxation without representation." But, with that said, I am with Mark Noll who points out in his article that "Just War" criteria were not followed in churches that supported the revolt. There were conspiracy theories that would have mostly been proven false had the colonies not rebelled. He stated:

"To the extent that colonists really thought that Britain intended systematic despotism, their going to war could perhaps be justified in classical Christian terms. Armed action to preempt an enemy's destructive intentions had long been considered moral. But if the problem in Britain was not primarily a malicious conspiracy but insensitive bungling, war would not have been justified." (http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct...

Finally, my concern about the Fourth of July is that it is rooted in the "rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in air" etc. I have no problem acknowledging the good that this nation has accomplished, but think that an uncritical engagement between the church and the Fourth is dangerously unbiblical. I am not a liberal (as was suggested in the comments by others), nor a conservative... I am an Anabaptist who thinks questioning power is a missional calling.

Thank you for your amazing follow-up article!
Shalom!

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 17:15:15 -0000

Squeaky... I couldn't agree more! This post isn't about being anti america but: "As Christians, we need to recalculate our past and allow the gospel to be critical of certain things we now celebrate." (from the post)

Thanks!

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 17:13:02 -0000

Rodelyn -- Thanks for your thoughtful response.

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Mon, 05 Jul 2010 03:07:00 -0000

John, I appreciate that you are obviously a man who wrestles with the tough issues. Although I may not agree with you on Christians in military etc, I can say that I can tell that you have a deep desire for peace and justice to reign on the earth as it is in heaven. thanks for your comment.

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Sat, 03 Jul 2010 15:46:57 -0000

Sam, thanks for you balanced interaction with me here. You may be interested to know that this sojo article is an "abridged" version of a post on my blog. Not sure that it will fill in all the gaps, but maybe some more context would help understand where I am coming from :-)

http://groansfromwithin.com...

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 18:38:03 -0000

Derek, I couldn't agree with you more!

As for nonviolence... it took me a long time to finally embrace it. You mention Rand Paul... well, I voted for Bush in 04 :-) But the more I read the bible the more I am convinced that nonviolence is the way of Jesus. If you click the word "nonviolence" in the post, you can see some of my recent wrestlings with the topic on my blog. Blessings!

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:09:26 -0000

Deborah... I wish I could quote you on this post because it was a beautiful comment. Thank you and have a wonderful weekend!

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:07:26 -0000

Xfree9 ... Thanks for your thoughts. The "trigger happy" statement was meant as hyperbole, not as literally describing history. Unfortunately, we had to cut this article down a bit for Sojo's site. If you would like to read it in its entirety, feel free to check out my blog. It may fill in some of the gaps you wish weren't there. Blessings!

PS - excellent book suggestion!

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:04:09 -0000

Michelle... I am thankful for getting a small glimpse into your family story. My prayer is that the church would recognize that such holidays (4th) do indeed "cover up with great fanfare" the reality of suffering and violence that breaks the heart of God. Many blessings to you and your family as well!

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 17:01:22 -0000

Your statement about taxation is somewhat justified. See my comment to Joel above to get an explanation there. Even so, I hope that you have a blessed weekend!

Re: Why Christianity and July 4th are Incompatible

Kurt Willems — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 16:59:42 -0000

Hi Joel,

Thanks for your comment here. Let me reply to some of your concerns.

1) By "just" I am referring to the 'just war theory' that is classically outlined by St Augustine. I have written a longer version of this article on my blog, but for the sake of being concise I wasn't able to include every detail here. Let me simply add that my main point is that Christians killing Christians is not just... it goes against the whole witness of the New Testament.

2) I also understand that taxation was not the only reason historically that the Revolution took place. There were several conspiracy theories that Mark Noll discusses in his article that is quoted/linked above.

3) "False witness"... With all due respect, I don't think the bible gives Christians permission to kill anyone. God alone reserves that right. So yes, when Christians rise up to kill over issues that are inconvenient, but not actually oppressive physically... yes, I would say that this is giving a 'false witness.' Biblical standards are to: pray for those who persecute you. love your enemies. turn the other cheek. go the extra mile (when a foreign enemy [Roman soldier] makes you carry his pack as his subordinate). As Peter states: "19 For it is commendable if you bear up under the pain of unjust suffering because you are conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps."

4) You say: "You do realize that America not going to war would have meant more money for England to use to kill French Christians?" Perhaps you have a point here, but it would be hard to convince the New Testament that the "end" justifies the "means" in this or any other instance where violence is employed. The intent of this article is not to argue from historical hypothesis, but to recognize that the God revealed in Jesus Christ calls us to love our enemies. Christians should never be enemies of other Christ-followers, but when they are, the worst we can justify doing to them is simply to love. You can't do this with a riffle in hand ;-) But even if you disagree with me on the issue of nonviolence, I think that even Just war theorists can’t come up with a sound biblical argument on this particular war. Therefore, the holiday that remembers the war that led to freedom ought not be something Christians ‘celebrate.’ (for more on this see my blog)

Finally, let me say that I also appreciate your humor here!!!!! Hope things don't get to overwhelming at work!!!! Blessings to ya!

Re: Calling People to Faith

Kurt Willems — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 19:44:10 -0000

This was beautifully said. Thanks Jim!

Re: BOOK LAUNCH BONANZA!

Kurt Willems — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 10:02:50 -0000

It has received great reviews around the web by people I trust like Chad Holtz, and is endorsed by some of my heroes! Way to go!!! As far as a quote, well I am in summer Hebrew so I will give u a quote from my textbook-- "shalom!"

Kurt Willems
http://groansfromwithin.com

Re: Why things have become slow lately

Kurt Willems — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 20:43:34 -0000

You friends are awesome! Dan, I still would love to hang out! I am glad to hear you are still in the area and that you have a new job! God is good!

Eilidh -- I hope your studies are going well :-) Thanks for your encouraging words...

Jon - Let me know when you are going to come this way and partner in ministry at my church... maybe you could go to Fuller or something... ha, just throwing it out their! Anyway, i think it would be cool to meet up someday...

Re: Is the Earth Valuable or a Resource? Quote to Ponder: Christopher J.H. Wright

Kurt Willems — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:15:00 -0000

JW - I am sorry that our discussions do not fit your categories of 'meaningful discussion.' Nevertheless, thanks for coming by the site...

Re: Quote To Ponder: Billy Graham on Evolution

Kurt Willems — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:50:06 -0000

I think genes are probably the best explanation! ha

Re: Quote To Ponder: Billy Graham on Evolution

Kurt Willems — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:16:48 -0000

RTW... First, when i typically read your comments i laugh :-) Thanks for the smile.
On a more serious note: There is no problem with your view that it is ok to simply believe "let there be light" means "let there be light." I respect that view although i dont think it allows hebrew poetry to be hebrew poetry... but that is another issue :-)

the quote of yours I agree with most!: "It’s kind of ironic that we spend so much time worrying about how God got us here, time that would be much better spent focusing on what God wants us to do now that we are here."
I couldn't agree more! But unfortunately the christian leaders of the last century decided to take your position (young earth) and make it an issue that was as important to following Jesus as believing the resurrection. You can read about the history of this here: http://groansfromwithin.blo...

Here is my big issue. I think that in churches across america we set students up for failure. We tell them that Young Earth Creationism is the only viable option for a christian and that the whole science community (who about 95% or more hold to evolution) is driven by an ungodly liberal agenda to keep God out of the public square (this is true for some, but i heard a statistic the other day that stated that 40% of scientists [evolutionists] are born again christians!). Well, this is ingrained into the mind of our intelligent 18 year olds who then go off to a college and find out that science actually has some good arguments for an old earth and evolutionary process. What happens to such a student. Well, they are then forced into wrestling with a false dichotomy... a typical fruit of fundamentalism... a false polarity that causes him (so many stories go like this) to make the "intelligent" choice in agreeing with what science seems to show us. Therefore, a student who grew up following Jesus becomes an atheist or agnostic who is angry at the church and Jesus because they were "lied" to their whole childhood.

So, I think that at the very least, we need to teach students to think for themselves and Christian adults as well. Evolution and biblical Christianity are not in conflict... in fact, as a speaker once said "Lets not try and get young earth creationism into the schools and science; lets get the atheism out of science."

Re: Biblical Authority, Postmodernism, and Patristic Hermeneutics...

Kurt Willems — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:41:12 -0000

Very interesting conversation happening here. Let me say simply to Dan that I agree with what you said in comment 1 in regards to not quoting wright's view about 'god's authority, christ's authority, somehow exercised through the bible.'

but, in my own defense, the purpose of my article was not to expound a complete view of biblical authority, but rather to demonstrate that even from a fully postmodern perspective one can arrive at the bible's practical authority (meaning how God's authority through the text is actually lived out). In other words, i was focused on metanarrative, modernism, 'nothing behind the text,' etc; and not the issue of a doctrine of biblical authority. Rather I wanted to demonstrate that the bible doesn't fit into the modern categories that it is often been subjected to due to modernism/fundamentalism. If I were to write a paper on the subject of "the doctrine of biblical authority" then I would 100 percent affirm wright's view as it is my very own perspective!

Other than that, I am really enjoying the conversation between you (Dan) and our new friend Mark.

Grace and Peace!

Re: Quote To Ponder: Billy Graham on Evolution

Kurt Willems — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:26:53 -0000

Steve! Thanks for coming by the site and for pointing me to this post by Enns. I had not read it, but it is spot on to what I have been thinking about. Yes, change is happening indeed!

Re: Atonement? Do Jesus' Words Get Priority and Do They Demonstrate the Rest of the NT as Heresy?

Kurt Willems — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 13:49:24 -0000

AMEN and AMEN! No disagreement here. As Greg Boyd often says, "What does the God of the OT look like... He looks like Jesus dying on Calvary for his enemies!"
OK... so now i must get back to actually writing my sermon! ha ha

Re: Atonement? Do Jesus' Words Get Priority and Do They Demonstrate the Rest of the NT as Heresy?

Kurt Willems — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:50:35 -0000

I agree with this wholeheartedly as long as the words of Jesus are not seen as in conflict with other New Testament texts as Robert suggested in his comments (I know that you dont share his view). All Scripture is useful and none of it is influenced by Satan... it is not in conflict with Jesus, it reveals Jesus (when read in its proper context within the narrative of the whole of the bible)!!!!