Disqus - Latest Comments for garthur

Re: A Modest Plea for Coaches to Stay Pastors (by Geoff Holsclaw)

Greg Arthur — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 11:12:53 -0000

Thanks Geoff, this is a good word. I am of a similar age and have a similar desire as you express. 6 years into my current pastorate I feel like I have barely begun to live out the longterm calling God has given me here. I have had questions form others about what is next. I can only answer that question within my current context. Everything that is next is here or associated with here. I am coaching other pastors, locally and regionally, but I do so as my tithe back to the the larger church. The only legitimacy I feel in doing so is based on my localized ministry. As soon as I remove myself from living out what I am coaching I feel I will lose much of my authority to coach others in it.

Re: Wearing the same clothes you wore to church on Sunday to work on Monday.

Greg Arthur — Mon, 02 Jan 2012 13:16:14 -0000

The best is when you take the outfit and simply change it a bit. Change those slacks for some jeans and you can rock the church button up at school the next day. Totally legitimate.

Re: New Statement by Board of General Superintendents

Greg Arthur — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:25:57 -0000

Hey wait, an intentional statement with good clarity, well thought out perspective and hopefulness from the BOGS!?! Now that is a direct answer to prayer. Very cool, I hope this will really help some people.

Re: LOST Meets the Missional Church

Greg Arthur — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:20:15 -0000

Incarnation is such a central reality to everything it means to be the church and yet we seem to fight it at every turn. It as if we want to live saying, "Humility and incarnation were fine for Jesus, but really it is too hard for me."

Re: Deep Church: Reflection #1 - Emergents Like to Protest

Greg Arthur — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:54:18 -0000

Jim,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying. Liturgy is literally the work of the people. But if it doesn't have root in the community that is using it, much of the meaning can be lost. I have really enjoyed writing new liturgy to fit my particular community and have found it life giving.

Re: Deep Church: Reflection #1 - Emergents Like to Protest

Greg Arthur — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:52:47 -0000

David,

Thanks for grabbing on the question I was most interested in. I think the 7 points are a helpful starting point in a debate that has struggled to find any good ones.

I think the point about a narrow view of salvation and a weak ecclessiology have been especially strong in my own resonance with the emerging church. I had a better seminary experience than you did, but a couple of years out of school I realized that my preaching, my view of the church, and my own understanding of my salvation were inadequate with what I was finally grasping in scripture. There were several voices within emerging circles that first help me put a finger on the questions I kept running into.

And yes, both sides within the traditional church, liberal and conservative, have fallen into traps of orthopraxy that misses the point.

Re: Deep Church: Reflection #1 - Emergents Like to Protest

Greg Arthur — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:50:37 -0000

Roy,

i am not sure who your comment is directed to. I assume it is to James Diggs, althought I am the author of the post, but I wanted to respond regardless.

I would say that it is true that emergent nazarene can be offensive to some people. I would say that concerned nazarene is offensive to some people. I am certainly offended by its inference that others are unconcerned.

But why is any of this conversation about Brian McLaren. Brian is a great writer, has been a very good pastor, and is trying to do the work of the kingdom. In the time I have spent with him I have found him to be an extraordinarily spiritual, Christ filled, and caring individual. That being said I don't agree with everything he writes, and the point of this post and an examination of these specific critiques of the traditional church, is that bearing the name emergent does not mean that we must identify ourselves with Brian or any other individual.

What is taking place in this movement is a reexamination of the our faith by those who have been dissatisfied with the expression of Christianity exhibited by the church we have grown up with and encounter today.

So I would challenge you to look at some of the specific points I have brought up for this conversation and wrestle with them. Maybe you are asking some of the same questions.

Thanks for the comments Roy.

Re: Deep Church: Reflection #1 - Emergents Like to Protest

Greg Arthur — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:49:31 -0000

I am really sorry to hear that church has become such a difficult place for you, unfortunately your story is not all that uncommon. I guess all I would offer is hope. There are wonderful expressions of Christ's body to be found all over the world. None are perfect, but they do offer hope and freshness.

We do find great comfort in form and structure. It is not as if we don't find some of these pieces in the early church or in scripture, but we certainly like to rely upon it more than the Spirit, quite frequently.

Re: What does it mean to be Pro-life today?

Greg Arthur — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:56:38 -0000

Kelly,

Thanks for your powerful testimony. Would it be that there are more with your courage and openness.

Re: What does it mean to be Pro-life today?

Greg Arthur — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 09:28:13 -0000

David,

I think you are touching on an important part of this whole debate. If we are seriously pro-life, Christians should practice adoption and orphan in incredible numbers. Obviously the ethics of caring for orphans and widows goes deep to the heart of God and any talk about care for the unborn has to equaled with care the for already born and alone.

I know of a couple of churches that have specifically targeted the foster care system and adoption as one of their main missional focuses and it has produced amazing stories. Those churches are few and far between, however. Such a huge issue and it goes straight to our understanding of the heart of God.

Re: What does it mean to be Pro-life today?

Greg Arthur — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:39:41 -0000

Jen,

That completely goes to the heart of what I am talking about. Even women in the church are turning to abortion. How much are we lacking as the church where this is an issue even for us?

Re: What does it mean to be Pro-life today?

Greg Arthur — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:38:33 -0000

Stephen I concur exactly. I have no idea why so many Christians are pro-death penalty, especially when you look at the brokenness of our system. I would love to see some statistics about the number of pro-life Christians who are pro death penalty at the same time.

Re: The Changing Demographics of Religion

Greg Arthur — Sat, 09 May 2009 10:24:56 -0000

Monte,

Great to hear from you again. I have been looking at that book, this may be the impetus I need to pick it up and read it.

The only take away from this video is fear. There is no call to action, no moments of hope, and no attempt at anything other than scaring whoever is watching it. Too much of what we believe about the Muslim world is exactly that, stories told to scare us.

Re: The Changing Demographics of Religion

Greg Arthur — Fri, 08 May 2009 13:30:30 -0000

Steve, the post was really a reaction to the video, which I didn't like at all. I have had so many people email me that link and bring it up with fear in their voices that I just wanted to respond.

I agree with your thought that a return to minority status would do wonders for the church in Western Culture. Christianity spreads much faster when it is not in a position of power.

Re: The Changing Demographics of Religion

Greg Arthur — Thu, 07 May 2009 09:33:51 -0000

Jesus,

Thanks for the investigation into the video. It was obviously very slanted and has many people working themselves into a lather. I received an email with this link from a number of people and they were all essentially mourning the end of civilization.

Thanks for adding some work and balance into a subject that obviously I was trying to show is decidely out of balance.

Re: The Changing Demographics of Religion

Greg Arthur — Wed, 06 May 2009 20:51:47 -0000

Gregory,

Thanks for stopping by and adding your thoughts to the conversation. You are very welcome here. I would contend, however with the quote you offer. While there may be little Christians can do to change the reality of a billion Muslims in the world the god of Islam is completely incompatible with the God of Christianity.

There are major differences that cannot be reconciled.

That doesn't mean, however, that we shouldn't seek to live peacefully with Muslims.

Re: Statue of Liberty

Greg Arthur — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:09:02 -0000

I love the poem and appreciate its message thoroughly. I have used the statue of liberty and the New Collosus poem several times in sermons as an example of what we are not and found they worked very well.

As far as the cursing goes, it all depends on the context. You don't want to go too Tony Campollo on the issue if you know that the use of the word will defeat or distract from the purpose instead of adding to it.

Re: Denomination Caves To Concerned Nazarenes

Greg Arthur — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 21:40:10 -0000

Mark,

The difficulty in these questions is that we are speaking in different languages. You are asking if the contributors to this blog submit to the authority of scripture. As a contributor let me say absolutely. But stating that means very little. There are such radically different ideas of what it means to submit to the authority of scripture within Christianity, even within Evangelicalism, that the bigger question is what influences your submission to scripture? We are part of this blog and its conversations because we are trying to submit to one another and sharpen one another in our understanding of and submission to scripture. We believe that community and accountability are essential for understanding scripture.

As far as the mocking comments go, most of the humor has been pretty tongue in cheek, not mocking. God uses sarcasm all the time in scripture to prove a point. Check out the last three chapters of the book of Job, God created sarcasm!

Re: Denomination Caves To Concerned Nazarenes

Greg Arthur — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:13:09 -0000

I hear that. Preach it brother!

Re: Denomination Caves To Concerned Nazarenes

Greg Arthur — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:36:22 -0000

This is the funniest run of comments this blog has ever seen. We have funny comments from Tony Jones, anti-emergents, want their names of James' parody people, emergents who fell for April Fools again, pretend GS's, voices from the grave and well the regular crowd. Too funny, is there anything more postmodern than that!

David, thanks for answering the question from the Great Emergence, Where now does our authority come from. My follow up is whether that authority comes from ourselves or from you? Just checking cause if it is from you, I have some things I would like permission for.

Re: Denomination Caves To Concerned Nazarenes

Greg Arthur — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:13:49 -0000

Oh that made me laugh. After last year I knew you would have something good for us James! Thanks for keeping it real. Too funny, because it is almost true.

Re: Calling the Police on Jesus

Greg Arthur — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:17:05 -0000

That is a really tough situation to deal with because you have to balance grace and truth. It sounds as if you were gracious to Mr. X and your plan is to try and be even more so prepared to be gracious with him if there is a next time. But, we can't give up our responsibilities to speak with truth to someone like Mr. X. You need to make him feel accepted as he is, but never allow him to think that where he is pleases God. God loves him and wants far more from and for him.

You are right, however, that we need to make sure we don't look past people like Mr. X without remembering they too are created in the image of God and that desires to redeem them. But we need to always balance grace and truth.

Re: The Church of the Nazarene Will End in the Next 15 Years

Greg Arthur — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:50:10 -0000

Jen,

Welcome glad to have you here.

I have totally missed out on about the last week of comments, sorry about that.

I think that the example of membership is a great example of where things are changing from the bottom up. While the denomination continues to insist on different lifestyle choices as necessities for membership many churches within the denomination, especially those that are growing and reaching into the post church crowd, are not holding members to these same standards.

I won't speak for any particular churches in this regard, but as I talk to different pastors it seems that there is this sense where in order to reach those outside of Nazarenedom, let alone the kingdom, they have to down play their Nazareneness. I now find in a new assignment pastoring a church that was an restart and it is barely Nazarene in many ways.

Change is coming one way or another it is more a question of whether the structure of the church will flex to allow churches on the fringes to remain in the denomination or will push them out.

Re: The Church of the Nazarene Will End in the Next 15 Years

Greg Arthur — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:13:48 -0000

Steven,

Maybe part of the answer for our future is an acceptance that to be Nazarene in South America feels more pentecostal, to be Nazarene in North America is to be more middle of the road evangelical and to be Nazarene in Asia or Europe will have a distinctly different flavor. Won't we have more strength as a people if we are okay with having diversity and unity?

As far as the structures go with the GS's I agree, so why not revamp the entire GS system. Why do we only have 6? Shouldn't we have a lot more than that with a church spread around the globe. Divide the world into regions, let each region have its own GS that understands its flavor, its needs and its churches. Let's have 12 GS's elected from all over the world. This seems far more consistent with the idea of the church to me.

Re: The Church of the Nazarene Will End in the Next 15 Years

Greg Arthur — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 09:48:15 -0000

The point of needing to change in order to survive is certainly correct for the COTN and pretty much all denominations. So the question then is what changes need to be made. Here are some of my quick reflections.

1) Globalization of Leadership - as you pointed out David the North American church will have to become less for the COTN to become more. We certainly don't need to continue the endless stream of North American white people, especially from the Midwest to the role of GS.

2) Restructuring - the institution itself of the denomination is set up simply to propagate its existence. The changing economic realities and the lessening of the North American domination of the church will, as you pointed out, require a flattening and a divergence of the leadership. Top down isn't going to cut it for long.

3) Holiness Reeducation - Had to throw this one in here since it is the name of my blog. Our ideas of holiness must expand beyond some sense of personalized sin management and become an awareness of our corporate responsibilities in this world.

4) More Wesley Less Fundamentalism - We are at best a bastardized version of Wesleyanism at this stage. The fundamentalist roots of our founding have really taken a toll on our Wesleyan heritage. Let's dilute the fundamentalist background with more sacraments, liturgy, and celebration of our connection rather than our individuality.

5) Stop pretending we are something that we aren't - We have emphasized our peculiarity for so long that we have started to believe our own press clippings. Despite a 100 years of holiness emphasis, revivals, and evangelists, and 100 million altar calls (give or take) we are facing the same dilemmas as everyone else. Our people live like the rest of culture, we can't keep our young people in the church, we are losing any denominational loyalties, and we are struggling to effectively minister to the communities on the margins.

There's my nickles worth..