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Guest • 11 years ago

Reading through this I don't see any different behavior. This country has always exploited people, look at the Chinese labor force with the railroad, the slave trade, undocumented farm workers and so on. Look at the land grabbing from the Native Americans, look at the gilded era and the Robber Barron's of the 19th to 20th century's. It seems our course has always been set in greed and personal power, it may seem more excessive now but I think it's a fundamental cornerstone of Americana. The modern middle class had never really existed until WW2, when we by keeping any bombing away from our land, and at the same time through bombing, destroyed the major manufacturing centers of Europe and Asia to give rise to a massive growth in our economy. But I do agree, and see a hardening of the American culture, away from civic duty and more towards looking out for number one. But these perspective are always subjective to the beholder, to say the anytime in American history depending on your race, creed or religion is how you would have perceived society.
And I guess we can trace our modern dilemma to Reagan's morning in America, and the torrent of deregulation that has followed for the past 30 years.

Alister Sutherland • 11 years ago

We are living in a different time from all those other eras. History may have parallels but it never truly repeats itself. The lessons of history provide one with a view and perhaps a mirror, but we have never experienced, in all of human experience, the kinds of conditions we are witnessing in the world now.

It really isn't just about America, but it must be said that the US is the epicenter, because of its status as the most powerful nation on Earth, and because of the shift going on within it that Giroux has so eloquently and incisively exposited.

Guest • 11 years ago

You say history never truly repeats, it may not as far as the story but the plot is always the same. What is it that makes this era different? The technology? are our leaders somehow even more pathological than any of the tyrants throughout history? Our leaders gain their power not in spite their overcharged narcissistic ego's and their sociopathic behavior, no, they come to power because of it. And we as naive as always somehow think this time it will be different. Power corrupts and it always has, we may have the capacity to annihilate all of humanity with the weapons we have developed, we may have created an economic system that is keeping masses in servitude, but just because the scope of the story is so much bigger does that really mean the plot has changed?

Louis • 11 years ago

pete - well put. Henry's article is well thought out as well.

I think Democracy can only thrive on a foundation of truth, and we have never really arrived, yet. I keep hoping the next generation, or the one after that, finally puts their collective foot down and demand justice.

As an aside I was filling out a form today that had a drop down list for 'political affiliation.' I found and selected "socialist". It was one of the most proudest moments of my life since the form was to become an historical record.

Julie Vaughn • 11 years ago

Important correction needs to be made in that the F-35 costs 90 million each instead of 90 billion per referenced article. This article otherwise is impressive, thank you for beautifully stating what I have been seeing. Recently, an ad I saw encouraged me to participate in a survey that would allow me to "help bring an offering to the market." That sounded curiously like a religious act, and I do think capitalism has been sold as an absolute religious institution that cannot be deviated from at risk of being an apostate. In this current, thoroughly unimaginative and punitive system, we punish the have nots and elevate the haves as being better priests in the religion. That is how you explain the antipathy toward those most hurt by the last sacrifice by fire created by the high priests that punished all outside the blessed inner sanctum.

Jay • 11 years ago

The article indeed states "90$ million each".

Julie Vaughn • 11 years ago

Yes, they corrected it.

Stella Mack • 11 years ago

I agree with many points made by the author, however, I have to defer to SisterLauren in her remarks about Occupy: radical voices and social movements HAVE cropped up to address these multivariate problems, but have just as quickly been dismissed and denied a media presence or honest public accounting through these same devises of oppression (namely, corporate media see a threat to its hegemonic influence and the masters it serves, thus it must paint all enemies of the status quo in the most wretched terms in order to undermine their potential). Much as I hate to say it, in today's bizarro-socio-political climate, if groups like Occupy want to be heard, they must form alliances with those who have locked them out of political, economic, media and educational institutions--a task only undertaken if they abandon their entire premise (essentially, they need to be a functional astro-turf movement like the Tea Party, to serve as a mock 'people's movement' controlled, financed and scripted from on-high). It would appear that the grassroots approach is having difficulty courting longstanding support and participation, and it will not enjoy the massive media coverage and public praise it deserves until it either contradicts itself (aka Tea Party route) or collects enough homeless, foreclosure-victims, victims of the justice system, unemployed, underemployed, and debt-ridden citizens who have long been disillusioned by the state of affairs in this country, but have been so hampered by exasperation and exhaustion that they haven't been able to join the ranks previously (and that is part of the tactic used by our corporate-political class to disarm Occupy: keep the public ignorant, over-worked, and disconnected form one another so that they may never form cohesive movements to oppose these crises en masse). Eventually, the greedy and the power-hungry will go too far, and Americans will have nothing else to do with their time but organize against this oppression--until then, the ruling class knows to feed the starving masses just enough crumbs to keep the toiling corpses alive...for now, we await the day when that tipping point emerges, the actions of the ruling class go beyond our collective offense, and enough people suddenly awaken to the turmoil around them and take action with their neighbors against these systemic iniquities. Where the master is capricious, the slave is patient. Where the overlord is gluttonous, the serf controls his appetite. And where the elite are overzealous in their grasp for more power, the masses are disciplined in their contravention.

the jack • 11 years ago

nice words, but nonviolent action will get nowhere. the powers-that-be laugh at such silliness as "occupy", as they have no teeth, no way to enforce or bring about the change they want. preaching nonviolence is good political correctness, but will get no results. interestingly enough, the left wing is trying to criminalize and do away with the very instruments that will bring their goals to fruition. go ahead, push for gun control, and the powers-that-be will continue in control, and the left will continue marching around and camping out and continue to be nothing more than the annoyance it has been. have a good day.

Alister Sutherland • 11 years ago

Take a look at the history of populist non violent movements. MLK and civil rights, Gandhi in India. What's needed is a cohesive objective for people to rally around. With that, one can move the Earth.

colinjames71 • 11 years ago

The next Occupy movement won't be derided by media. When things reach the breaking point, it's gonna break. People can only take so much.

the jack • 11 years ago

with lot's of casualties. i'd be reluctant to call the civil rights movement "non-violent" with all of the dogs, water cannons, hangings, etc. where are the self-sacrificing "leaders" to lead this "non-violent" crusade, willing to take the beating for the sideliner participants. good luck with this ipad starbucks drinking crowd. the occupy movement is a classic example. lot's of noise, but no coherent direction.

Lisa M. Alter • 11 years ago

I'll take the beating, even for you. I'll be the leader. Problem is that every time I stand up and volunteer, no one believes. They judge the book by its cover and turn to listen to someone, generally male, telling them whatever they want to hear. But I will take the beating, survive it, and stand up to keep talking. Where will you be?

LoKeys • 11 years ago

geeeeeeze, that is the VERY definition of non violence, ie, to stand up to the VIOLENCE perpetrated upon you by the opposition, and resist NON VIOLENTLY ! get edumacated !! lol

george renaud • 11 years ago

This has been going on for years. When Johnson lied about the Gulf of Tonkin and when Nixon lied about bombing Cambodia. The students spoke up but the press made us look like dirty, unemployed, drug addicted, liberal, communist, socialist, atheistic, spoiled brats that hated America. We loved America we just didn't like our corrupted government.

Hipolito123 • 11 years ago

And the corrupted government pigs continue to wallow in their own filth.

Sharee Anne Gorman • 11 years ago

Labor is the largest demographic in the world - transcending all gender, political and religious differences. What we need is a Global Labor Treaty for Living Wages to lessen the inequality and economic gap between owners and workers. http://www.change.org/petit...

Aquifer • 11 years ago

Fat chance - you can't even get public and private sector workers in this country to stop beating on each other let alone get workers to unite across national lines -

S.A. • 11 years ago

I am sure that I have never read an article before by anyone who really understood and addressed the militarization of American Culture. A depressing article, but a truthful one that does not sidestep or obfuscate exactly where we stand as a nation, and at least for me states "what oft was thought but ne'er so well expressed" on the subject of the military . madness that grips and sickens America and greases the way for laws that create more poor, more disenfranchised, and further divide our nation in the haves and have nots while more and more is spent on military weapons and gadgets and overseas wars while the manufacturing corporations walk off with billions. S,A, Women Against Military Madness

Alister Sutherland • 11 years ago

What a fabulous dissertation.

We have a lot of work ahead of us, people. It may seem insurmountable, but we can and must do it.

howarddoughty • 11 years ago

What to do? What to do?

I have enjoyed the comments, deep humanity and delight of "Sister Lauren" and her posts for some years. I hope she won't be offended, but I imagine her as a replication of Joni Mitchell, whom I saw in 1966 when she still advertised herself as Joni Anderson. The place was the Mariposa Folk Festival in the Caledon Hills, Ontario. Joni closed the Saturday night event with "A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall," just as the sky lit up with thunder and the rain came a-tumblin' down ... as close as I ever got to a god-moment.

The next morning, I shared a picnic table with Gordon Lightfoot, Phil Ochs and Ian Tyson. I doesn't get much better than that ... except when listening to Stan Rogers across a campfire as the Sun came up in 1980.

Then, a couple of years ago, I found myself in the presence of Henry A. Giroux, in whom I pride myself as something of a kindred political/moral/educational spirit.

Do I choose between or among?

Plainly not ... I just lift up a voice and add them to an inventory of excellence from Albert Camus to Edward Thompson and from ... fill in the blanks ... to Sister Lauren ... whom I'd love to meet one day along with the likes of 20th-century "hero[in]es" with whom I have been privileged to share air. They include: Danny Cohn-Bendit, Jules Feiffer, Paul Goodman, Abbie Hoffman, Phil Ochs, Utah Phillips, Bonnie Raitt, Gloria Steinem, Kurt Vonnegut, other celebrities, any number of almost anonymous ecological and trade union stalwarts and the splendid Tommy Douglas (father-in-law to Donald Sutherland and grandfather to Keifer Sutherland - sorry son of "24"). Tommy was elected Premier of Saskatchewan in 1944 and brought the first "socialist" health care system to North America in 1961.

Bless them all.

snideelf • 11 years ago

"The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." - Thomas Jefferson

Hipolito123 • 11 years ago

"Hear, hear." (Or is it "Here, here." All rise to the reality. Democracy in the United States is dead.

Janet Innes-Kirkwood • 11 years ago

Excellent rant. If we are trying to create a new pedagogy for the oppressed which because of our living in this current bubble, is all of us, as we are all oppressed by the ignorant materialist inhumane and deadening ideology that surrounds us then maybe we should understand that academy's role may be limited and the real classroom and the real world lessons must be learned living and witnessing and contextualizing our own lives and experience and those of others in our world in place. When we collectively start speaking our own truth- then watch out. Forget the Occupy Movement now it is time for the real "Occupation".

SissiePooh • 11 years ago

You make a very good point here, but in order for us to "collectively start speaking our own truth", we must have confidence that our voice -- individually and collectively -- has the moral authority and power to bring about profound and meaningful changes to our society, nation and world. Creating a new pedagogy will also mean creating a population who have the confidence, moral authority and power to use our "voice" with courage, and who are able to effectively witness and contextualize not only our lives and experiences, but to teach others in our world to do the same. Then the collective voice becomes disciplined, unified, powerful and more effective.

sisterlauren • 11 years ago

How does one account for the lack of public outcry over millions of Americans losing their homes because of corrupt banking practices and millions more becoming unemployed because of the lack of an adequate jobs program in the United States, while at the same time stories abound of colossal greed and corruption on Wall Street?

What do you call Occupy?

I don't see a lack of public outcry, I see a media in deep denial about it.

What do you expect? For people to riot? I think our homeless people are too busy trying to survive to throw a riot for your entertainment. I will never understand why 'intellectuals' like this author seem to need people to riot in order to pay attention to them and their efforts. If you couldn't notice Occupy, then you might as well quit.

howarddoughty • 11 years ago

And also an absence of political parties and other "legitimate" institutions. I'm willing to allow some slack for "pragmatists" who are sick of yelping from the outside while others run the kennel from within. That's why I continue to suppose - however tepidly - the New Democratic Party of Canada, but patience with the "old" Democratic Party in the USA runs thin.

jandingo • 11 years ago

your post starts by asking rhetorical questions- for the question, ("do you expect....people to riot?"), the answer clearly is "no", but, curiously, you respond by assuming the affirmative. the author doesn't, in any way, suggest "rioting" as a strategy. you then speculate on the fiction you created (the author's urging people to riot) and ascribe a motive- "entertainment" (again, without any evidence). you finish by whining that the Occupy phenomena was ignored in the article. perhaps Occupy should have been mentioned, but the fact is that Occupy is now essentially moribund and therefore, not entirely relevant- it needs to be brought back to life or superseded altogether. one more thing- i was involved in Occupy Oakland and there was more than a little "rioting" going on- not to entertain "intellectuals", but to defend ourselves and create visible resistance when the opportunity presented itself.

Drew N • 11 years ago

One of the best articles I have read on truth-out in a long time. Well Done.

I would add to the militarization argument by saying we live in an violent society with additional elements that perpetuates the aggression we see between classes. Look at our favorite sport: Football (mostly in my opinion because of the violence). Look at our favorite past time as a nation: War (21 years of peace since we became the US of A).

This lends itself to someone with compassion/empathy being labeled as a softee, and our nation just doesn't stand for that. Sadly I don't see how we will be able to pull ourselves out of it.

toddsaed • 11 years ago

46% must be shown Carl Sagan films, see an observatory or planetarium, and read at least
one article on astronomy, or evolution, that is an absurd number to believe in that juvenile
bull puckey, creationism, Yes , Chomsky and Giroux are brillliant at explaining the problem, and it may be enough to see a solution fall out from the explanation ,if enough can be reached, so more marketing so to speak, and more background on the US left, there are still many groups active, PLP, et al, making the connections, and presenting all the options and preparations necessary, and a clear vision, in detail of the good society possible, 100% employment, free school and so on, the mass movement comes from emotions, and reclaiming the lost rights, nationalism in action, globalism in thought, dare we say the usurped and hackneyed word revolution, or maybe say seizure of power, armed resisitance, and other back ups, we do our best, and when when the Unseen joins the Seen maybe we will see that better day, we can imagine it must come, from the historical processes and patterns, we boomers may just be watching from the spirit world, in a crystal geodesic dome pyramid sports stadium on the moon,

James Miller • 11 years ago

The imagination will set you free. We can no longer trust the truth.

SissiePooh • 11 years ago

But... can imagination be fully trusted to set one free, especially when "truth" can be arbitrarily manipulated?

Michel Losier • 11 years ago

CORRECTION: the university in Boca Raton, FL is Florida Atlantic University

Neptunes Daughter • 11 years ago

This whole entire mess we are currently living in not only in the USA but globally will come to a breaking point as always. I do believe that change in the direction mentioned above can be a reality if we are willing to deal with our shadow doing the inner work required. While the process seems long , is arduous the current state can be used to cultivate it.

The results give the attributes of humility that is actually known , and when crisis unfolds the ability to hold space in not knowing, to pause without fear that previously caused a rushing out to fix what has not even been understood creating more madness. Just coming to understand that we have a vision of what should be , being very careful to observe your motivations when moving to change , or bring solutions to bring about change.

Many of us started out with excellent motivations but the shadow within can corrupt in causing us to believe that others are an enemy , evil and then our view becomes myopic and we see not real people, like ourselves but fictional characters far removed from ourselves . This colors all our interactions tainting obstructing what is fully genuine to come through. The more honest we can be with ourselves using everyday life , the circumstances which cause emotional reactions that are visceral are excellent opportunities to examine ourselves instead of blaming the trigger whomever that may be. Truth is it isn't an intentional evil that got us where we are today but an indifference to the decay that resulted from compromising life to accomplish our means. We need to see that all life should be met with the highest integrity and to compromise any human beings life is to do the same to all.

I believe this can be done , and most likely will be though while the process is unfolding many things can be brutal to witness. By the law of diminishing effects the various distractions will eventually loose there beguiling quality freeing us to see the vacuous nature which then propels us to seek what is real.

Frank Pitz • 11 years ago

And the shame is there are only 19 comments.

SissiePooh • 11 years ago

Unfortunately, the violence, narcissistic individualism, and glorification of militarism and authortarianism which Prof. Giroux has pointed out so eloquently is nothing new. All of these things -- including the market economy which has nurtured these attitudes, beliefs and behaviors -- has lurked within the American spirit ever since the nation's founding. But it took sixty years (beginning with the Truman Era) for education, culture, civic responsibility and social values to come under a relentless assault from the unleashed corporate oligarchs, market fundamentalists and religious fundamentalists who were able to seize, establish and consolidate their power by blatantly pandering to our greed, petty prejudices, imagined hatreds and slights, and our ramped-up addiction to violence in all forms.

george renaud • 11 years ago

No, they were able to lie to people with conviction. Hitler said in Mein Kemp that you can unite more people with hate then love. The right wing knows this because they practice what Hitler preached. Until good people challenge evil, evil will rule. I call Reagan a Nazi not the Great Communicator. I call Bush, Nixon and Johnson war criminals. I call Limbaugh and Beck Nazi Propagandist. I call Trump an asshole. I call the fundamentalist ignorant. I call the oil companies destroyers of the earth. I call our government stupid and corrupt. Get the message. Call an ace a spade. When someone lies tell them they are stupid. When the poor are arrested for petty crimes ask why they don't arrest the people who pollute the earth, launder money through their banks, kill people by the millions, vote for greed instead of needs.

SissiePooh • 11 years ago

Quite true. Certainly the religious fundamentalists have refined and polished this "lie with conviction" technique over the past thirty years. Just look at how easily people can be whipped up into an emotional frenzy over "Islamofascists", yet a fascist who is wrapped in the flag, carries a cross and says "I am a Christian Patriot" is perfectly acceptable to those who have been mobilized by hatred over the existence of the "failed ones".

Bruce • 11 years ago

OR, we could Just(ly) Kick A$$ !

JDmysticDJ • 11 years ago

This wordy article by young Mr. Giroux titled, ”The Politics of Disimagination and the Pathologies of Power” should instead be titled, “The Politics of Disinformation and the Pathologies of Demagoguery.” Young Mr. Giroux seems to be trying to make a name for himself as a person with superior insights and moral acuity AND as a creative writer. In the political realm, what has been described as the “Information Superhighway” has become the “Disinformation Superhighway.”

First, and a minor point I’m sure, is the disinformation that, $90,000,000,000.00 is the cost of each F-35 fighter. $90,000,000,000.00 (the claimed cost of an F-35 fighter x 2433 (The number of F-35 fighters planned) = $218,970,000,000,000.00, or 218.97 trillion dollars [?]. 89 MILLION dollars is the conservative projected cost of each F-35 fighter over the planned production run, not 90 billion dollars each. If the cost of each F-35 was 90
billion dollars just 11 fighters would cost nearly a trillion dollars (990 billion dollars.) The 2011 budget request for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter was 11.6 Billion dollars.

(The above error has been corrected by truthout editors, yes 90 million not 90 billion as originally published. A minor error missed by Mr. Giroux’s superior genius and truthout editors I suppose.)

Mr. Giroux wrote the following often heard demagoguery. “President Obama arbitrarily decides that he can ignore due process and kill American citizens through drone strikes
and the American public barely blinks?” It is Mr.Giroux, his sycophants, and
his ilk in the radical media that are guilty of blinking. Aljazeera English a
News outlet based in Doha Qatar reports DAILY the numbers of people killed and
injured by indiscriminate terrorist actions; such information is also available
on the back pages of our major Newspapers, but you won’t find that information
on radical News outlets, such information does not serve a narrative of ultimate U.S. responsibility for evil.

“American Citizen” Anwar al-Aulaqui preached that Muslim’s around the world should kill Americans “Without hesitation.” A discussion regarding al-Aulaqui’s connection to terrorist
organizations and acts of terrorism replete with the recorded words of al-Aulaqui himself can be found at:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar...

And video of al-Aulaqui urging terrorist acts can be
found at:

www.cbsnews.com/video/watch...

Obama’s complete “signing statement” that accompanied his signing the NDAA can be found at:

www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres......

The most pertinent excerpt from the signing statement being:

“I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a Nation. My Administration will interpret section 1021 in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law.

Mr. Giroux is an outspoken dissident and I am of the opinion
that many of his observations and complaints have a great deal of merit, but I
did not find this article enlightening and I don’t believe that this article
contained any revelations. Although I agree with Mr. Giroux in substance I have
to say that this article did not change my overall perspective by even a “millimeter.”
I still support our representative democracy in spite of its shortcomings. I
still support our current President and his hard to achieve objectives. I am
still opposed to anti-Government anarchist rebellion and I believe there are
many dangers inherent in such rebellion. Anarchy provides the fertile soil for
the worst aspects of repression and suppression of freedoms to take root. Only
democratic governance has the capacity for change in a non-violent way. Anarchists
eschew governance and such is the essence of their belief system, governments
are evil. The Occupy movement as structured and guided by anarchists had no
REAL POLITICAL POTENTIAL, and Occupy quickly morphed into a movement counterproductive in word and deed.

I’m certain that this post by me will not change the thinking of radicals and chronic dissidents; I’m hoping for just a “millimeter” of attitude change.

“You write in order to change the world knowing perfectly well that you probably can't, but also knowing that [writing] is indispensable to the world. The world changes according to the way people see it, and if you alter even by a millimeter the way people look at reality, then you can change it." - James Baldwin

How poor are they that have not patience! What wound did ever heal but by degrees? William Shakespeare

Obama is not the instigator of violence but instead the defender and protector of those threatened by cruel violence and the tyranny of religious fanaticism. The balm that Obama applies might sting and burn, but it is this balm that holds the best hope for healing the wounds caused by past tragic errors in U.S. foreign policy, if we are fortunate and wise the wounds will be healed gradually and incrementally; gradually and incrementally not from want but from the necessities of political reality.

Atomsk • 11 years ago

Look, dumbass. The first incredible mistake you managed to nitpick was a mistype that was already corrected. You managed to spend about one third of your post on it. If that's not cheap and shallow nitpicking, I do not know what is.

Then you go on to substantiate while Anwar al-Aulaqui was evil - which of course *does not in any way* mean that he doesn't deserve due process. This is pure sophistry. Even much larger criminals deserve and were given due process. Not to mention his son, of course, whom you conveniently forget.

Third, you quote this:

I want to clarify that my Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens. Indeed, I believe that doing so would break with our most important traditions and values as a Nation. My Administration will interpret section 1021 in a manner that ensures that any detention it authorizes complies with the Constitution, the laws of war, and all other applicable law.

as if it meant something, which is nothing but a meaningless *promise* about not using a law that was just signed in. Why sign it in in that form if they don't intend to use it? Do you really think this promise means more than the words of the law itself? Again, a cheap, shallow and transparent non-argument.

The rest of your post also has no content whatsoever, no arguments, just cheap shots at people. This, on the other hand:

Obama is not the instigator of violence but instead the defender and protector of those threatened by cruel violence and the tyranny of religious fanaticism. The balm that Obama applies might sting and burn, but it is this balm that holds the best hope for healing the wounds caused by past tragic errors in U.S. foreign policy, if we are fortunate and wise the wounds will be healed gradually and incrementally; gradually and incrementally not from want but from the necessities of political reality.

Is one of the most disgusting drooling sycophantic pieces of small minded and propagandised brainless idiocy that I've ever read. I think I'll use it instead of a goose feather when I next want to lose weight.

JDmysticDJ • 11 years ago

Fast Facts (From the WFP)

1. The US was the leading donor of official HUMANITARIAN aid in 2010

2. The US’s official development assistance (ODA) was equal to 0.2% of The US’s gross national income (GNI) in 2010

3. GNI (Gross National Income) rank in 2010: 1 of 215

4. 91.5% of the US’s official HUMANITARIAN aid was spent in fragile states in 2010

5. 47% of the US’s official HUMANITARIAN aid was spent in countries classified as long term recipients of humanitarian aid in 2010

Someone who cannot distinguish between
HUMANITARIAN aid, development aid, and military aid has got a lot nerve calling someone a dumbass.

“The World Food Programme (WFP) is the food assistance branch of the United Nations, and it is the world's largest humanitarian organization addressing hunger.[1] WFP provides food, on average, to 90 million people per year, 58 million of whom are children.[2] From its headquarters in Rome and more than 80 country offices around the world, WFP works to help people who are unable to produce or obtain enough food for themselves and their families. It is a member of the United Nations Development Group and part of its Executive Committee.”

The U.S. is by far the largest contributor to the WFP. The U.S has contributed 8 times as much the next largest contributor since 2008.

Sophistry?

You are the dupe of radical overzealous DEMAGOGUERY, the U.S. is NOT responsible for all evil, and the U.S. is not responsible for the huge preponderance of civilian deaths in recent years, (2009-2013) terrorists have that nefarious honor. The NDAA does not give the President the authority to kill American Citizens, or detain American Citizens without trial. The NDAA gives the President the authority to target enemy combatants who are members of al-Qaeda, affiliates, and associated forces.

"That term [associated forces] is well understood to cover cobelligerent groups that fight together with al-Qaeda or Taliban forces in the armed conflict against the United States or its coalition partners. [...] after carefully
considering how traditional law-of-war concepts apply in this armed conflict against non-state armed groups, the government has made clear that an “‘associated force’ . . . has two characteristics”: (1) an organized, armed group that has entered the fight alongside al Qaeda, [that] 2) is a
cobelligerent with al Qaeda in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners. [...] an associated force is an “organized, armed group that has entered the fight alongside al Qaeda” or the Taliban and is “a cobelligerent with al Qaeda [or the Taliban] in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners.”"

“The volume of sheer, unadulterated nonsense zipping around the internet about the NDAA boggles the mind. There was a time–only a few months ago–when the NDAA detention provisions were the obscure province of a small group of national security law nerds. Now, however, this bill has rocketed to international notoriety. The added attention to it is a good thing. It’s an important subject and warrants genuine debate and discussion. The trouble is that much of the discussion is the intellectual equivalent of the “death panel” objections to the health care bill. While certain journalists have done a good job covering the controversy, it’s much easier to get bad information than good. The reader who wants answers to simple questions faces a confusing array of conflicting information.”

“The NDAA is a spending authorization bill for the military for fiscal year
2012. At more than 1,000 pages, it does a great many things. Almost all of the
controversy about it, however, deals with a single portion the bill: “Subtitle D–Counterterrorism.”

www.lawfareblog.com/2011/12...

“The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for Fiscal Year 2012[2] is a United States federal law which besides other provisions specifies the budget and expenditures of the United States Department of Defense. The bill passed the U.S. House on Dec. 14, 2011, the U.S. Senate on Dec. 15,
2011, and was signed into United States law on December 31, 2011, by President Barack Obama.

The Act authorizes $662 billion in funding, among other things "for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad." In a signing statement, President Obama described the Act as addressing national security programs, Department of Defense health care costs, counter-terrorism within the U.S. and abroad, and military modernization.[6][7] The Act also imposes new economic sanctions against Iran (section 1045), commissions appraisals of the military capabilities of countries such as Iran, China, and Russia,[8]
and refocuses the strategic goals of NATO towards "energy security."The
Act also increases pay and healthcare costs for military service members and
gives governors the ability to requeSt the help of military reservists in the
event of a hurricane, earthquake, flood, terrorist attack or other disaster.”

Why did Obama sign the NDAA after first threatening to Veto the bill?

In his Signing Statement, President Obama explained:"I have signed the Act chiefly because it authorizes funding for the defense of the United States and its interests abroad, crucial services for service members and their families, and vital national security programs that must be renewed . . . I have signed this bill despite having serious reservations with certain provisions that regulate the detention, interrogation, and prosecution of suspected terrorists."

Incidentally, I mentioned Henry Kissinger as a means of pointing out the meaninglessness of “credentials.” Your comment, “Edit: I misread your
post because I'm an idiot. I'll still leave this here,” Is incomprehensible.

“Finally, A U.S. official said the young man (al-Aulaqui’s son) ‘was in the wrong place at the wrong time,’ and that the U.S. was trying to kill a legitimate terrorist — al-Qaeda leader Ibrahim al-Banna, who also died — in the strike that apparently killed the American [?] teenager.

If you want to believe that the U.S. (i.e. Obama,) intentionally targeted and wanted to kill an “innocent” teenager then I can only believe that you have been deranged by demagoguery and that it is you that is the “dumbass.”

Atomsk • 11 years ago

You know what the world wants from you, fucker? Not your shitty aid, but to GET THE FUCK OUT of other people's countries. The "aid" you provide does not in any way compensate the exploitation and destruction you self-satisfied retarded shitheads create in the countries you "aid". And they pay it back hundreds of times over.

Jesus fuck. I really hate self-satisfied ignorant shithead Americans fucks like you. Seriously.

Anyone actually bringing up American (or Western in general fwiw) aid as something positive and not understanding it as imperial power is just...argh. Why do I read these sites ffs.

and the U.S. is not responsible for the huge preponderance of civilian deaths in recent years, (2009-2013) terrorists have that nefarious honor.

Really? Because destroying the economies of Libya, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Afganistan has no effect? Exploiting racial and tribal tensions even with help of terrorist groups to get access to resources has no effect? It's all about terrorists?

Fuck you and your egoist, self-centered and self-satisfied idiocy. Jesus. I know I should be a bit more civilised but I can't help myself when I see this combination of ignorant blindness and self-satisfaction.

JDmysticDJ • 11 years ago

Atomsk aka, “Comrade Nothing,” aka “The Star Stealer,”

You are the characture of a loud mouthed bigot. You demonstrate clearly the personality characteristics of nihilistic radicals the world over. Such a moral hypocrite you are. You become hysterical when your wrong headedness is exposed.

Poor boy, you are not even intelligent enough to realize that you can’t win an argument on a forum like this one with profanity and a loud voice, your opinions are the dime store variety and they are overpriced.

Atomsk • 11 years ago

No, I become infuriated when I read the kind of selfish idiocy you're spouting. And btw, I don't wish to win arguments. I just get pissed off by your kind of shithead.

Hipolito123 • 11 years ago

Excuse me, sir, but the United States is an anarchy run by the military-industrial complex. The strategy is to lie to get elected, then support the worship of money over life itself, leaving millions to starve while the few wallow in opulence. This is anarchy at its worst. You talk about the 15,000 persons killed by terrorism each year but conveniently ignore the 3.5 million innocent children who die of starvation. Why is that not important? Because the anarchy exists. True leadership knows that survival of the species requires the care of the children. When the wealth of an individual is more important than the life of a child, the only values that exist in leadership are greed, cowardice and irresponsibility. That is where the world is today. Anarchy. Money worship disguised as responsibility. 3.5 million dead children. I'm sure you'd agree that it's their parents' fault for not knowing how to stack a deck. I'm sure you'd agree that letting children die of starvation for greed is "human nature." Go ask a mother.

JDmysticDJ • 11 years ago

Apparently you have very little understanding of what anarchy is, either as a noun or as a political philosophy. The Military Industrial Complex is but one of the special interest groups that have power and influence in our democracy. The money spent on National Security Annually (All related agencies) amounts to not quite 5% of our annual GNP. Mr. Giroux tells you what you want to hear so you believe it without thinking critically and without checking the veracity of his sources or the validity of the assertions made by those sources. For example, the “social logic” of liberal democracies is general welfare and not a “Military Social Logic.” The briefest inquiry into who Theo Goldberg is, (Theo Goldberg is the coiner of the phrase, “Military Social Logic,”) reveals Mr. Goldberg to be a bumbling pseudo-intellectual (My opinion based on observation) who was once the producer of music videos shown on MTV. Theo Goldberg has academic credentials and credentials as the producer of independent films and documentaries, but Henry Kissinger has far, far greater credentials in academics AND in government, (National Security Advisor, Nobel Peace Prize winner, etc. etc. ad nausea, the list of Henry Kissinger’s supposed credentials goes on and on, and on, and on.) Are we to give credence to anyone who has credentials without first examining the validity of his assertions, and the possible consequences associated with giving credence to such?

Another illustration of your shallow thinking is your apparent belief that the U.S. is responsible for severe malnutrition and starvation around the world. That more aid is needed to end starvation and hunger is a given. The data reveals that the U.S., the nations of the European Union, O.E.C.D. Nations, the European Social Democracies, along with Saudi Arabia have provided the lion’s share of Governmental humanitarian relief, by any analysis, (percentage of GNP and individual contributions etc,) Perhaps reading Giroux’s demagoguery could have some impact on malnutrition and
starvation but I doubt it, the actual issue of hunger and starvation is not as
sexy as the contention that the U.S. is responsible for such.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid

Hipolito123 • 11 years ago

What a load of neo intellectual crap. World starvation happens because leadership is too busy stuffing its own craw. And nobody gives a damn. All it would take to stop world hunger is for everyone to think about it. When the wealth of an individual is more important than the life of a child, the only values are greed, cowardice and irresponsibility. We are all individuals and when any child dies, it is the fault of all of us. Human nature is to care for children. The greedy flee in a dead run terror from that responsibility, usually hiding behind money... capital. That is why capitalism was conceived, to keep greedy cowards from having to take responsibility for leadership. Instead they take responsibility for, and control of money, while deliberately leaving children to starve. Although you worship capitalism, the reality of the world shows it doesn't work. And the only reason it doesn't work is because the wealth of the individual is more important than the lives of the children. Take very careful not that I'm not saying "survival." Capitalism doesn't kill children for survival. It kills them for wealth.

Assume a hereafter and an interview with a creator. Would that creator grant merit for technological development? "My, look at how clever you all are. A telephone that takes pictures!" I doubt it. I would more likely believe a tearful creator saying, "You know all those you left to die of starvation in your ambition to glorify yourselves? Well, those were my children too."

All this, of course, is way too soppy for those who condone 3.5 million dead children a year to support a humanity that loves its toys so much. But one day you might think of what it feels like for a mother to close the eyes of her dead child. If we had the guts to think about it, we could stop it. The problem is, we don't. The goal is to glorify ourselves, not save children. The irony is that if we did save the children, our glory would follow. Since we seek unwarranted glory, we continue to fail. Of course you would believe the state of the world today is success. My, look at all those toys.

JDmysticDJ • 11 years ago

How does one reason with a crazy person? A sizeable number of people have become crazed because they are unable to make rational judgments about the world in which we live. Instead of calmly assessing the facts some people become hysterical; wild accusations and conspiracy theories abound.

For example, people unable to rationally assess what occurred in New York City on September 11, 2001 turned to a variety of grand conspiracies to explain who was behind the 9/11 attack. No, no, no! it couldn’t have been terrorists who commandeered planes and flew them into buildings who were responsible for 9/11, it had to be the Bush Administration with its 21st Century Neocons, or a secret shadow government aided by Mossad with nano-thermite; hysterical irrationality is/was evident in such beliefs, a hysterical irrationality nurtured by charlatans claiming the authority of science, while REAL and authentic scientific investigations were conducted by the recognized experts in all relevant fields who examined the facts and best explained what happened on 9/11. Terrorist fanatics planned, trained for, and carried out the attacks on 9/11 is the conclusion of the recognized experts. “But, but, but, NO! such a conclusion is nothing but a massive cover-up perpetrated by the secret cabal responsible for the attack, the facts and the experts be damned, such a conclusion does not satisfy my world view of U.S. leaders being ultimately responsible for every evil,
the U.S. has been evil since its inception, the U.S. is an evil nation, it
always has been evil, and it always will be evil, DEATH TO AMERICA!” or some such. Apparently some believe that evil only resides in the West and the U.S. is the Western Nation where evil is headquartered.

Another example? Those who cannot accept a black man in the
Whitehouse believe: “Barack Obama is not a U.S. citizen, his birth certificate is a fraudulent document falsified and implanted in the records of the Department of Health of Hawaii by those that back him and installed him in office (The CIA, the shadow government, the Illuminati, Masons,” so on… and so forth.

Other examples?

“That is why capitalism was conceived, to keep greedy cowards from having to take responsibility for leadership. Instead they take responsibility for, and control of money, while deliberately leaving children to starve.”

“US military imperialism in the middle east and Northern Africa is clearly a war to monopolize resources, particularly oil, and to eliminate [sic] any regimes that threaten the stranglehold that US and European banks have on the world economy.”

Yes indeed, a spewing of simplistic platitudes coming from the
mind of someone hysterical.

(Dialogue from within the halls of power: “O.K., we’re agreed then, we’ll let children starve so we can monopolize resources and keep our
stranglehold on the world economy. That being affirmed, these deliberations are now adjourned, let’s go have a drink.”

Many advocate that Wall Street miscreants [?] must be punished.

Definition of miscreant (n)

1. somebody who does wrong: somebody who behaves in a dishonest, malicious, or otherwise contemptible way

2. infidel: somebody whose religious faith is frowned upon or loathed

Synonyms: troublemaker, scoundrel, mischief-maker, malefactor, wrongdoer, criminal, reprobate, offender, villain, lowlife

Terrorists? Nah let them be. They are not to blame for their terrorist acts, we are. There, there, we understand, you boys are pissed, who
could blame you what with all that American evil and whatnot. We’re in total agreement, people who advocate education for your wives, sisters, and daughters, and liberal social values do not follow the teachings of the Prophets; they are infidels and blasphemers that must be killed, ALLAH BE PRAISED!

**********************************************************************************

“Assume a hereafter and an interview with a creator. Would that creator grant merit for technological development? Duh?!... No! The creator would only give merit (and 72 uneducated virgins) for martyring oneself while killing infidels in a holy Jihad, ALLAH AKBHAR!

Severe malnutrition and starvation is an issue not related to the issue in dispute here, and bringing that issue up here is obfuscation. We could diverge into a discussion about the numbers of people who die as a
result of automobile accidents, gun shots, lack of health insurance, disease, work related injuries, abortion etc., but all of these issues are distinct and separate from the issue in dispute here.

(Incidentally, the numbers of the unborn aborted each year worldwide far exceeds the number of children who die from starvation each year
worldwide.)

www.numberofabortions.com

The issue of U.S. military actions is blown out of any rational proportion, obvious cruel anomalies notwithstanding. Really, and with all due respect (not much) the issue of drones etc. has been subject to
demagoguery beyond all rational proportion by anti-American/anti-Obama radicals, and ALL THE DATA supports that contention. The past cannot be undone and focus should be on the here and now. The issue of Combating terrorism is a no brainer from any perspective, and all perspectives, with the exception of radical demagogues who attribute every evil to the U.S., its leaders, and its allies.

Hipolito123 • 11 years ago

Sniveling little whimpering spineless cowards will always flee truth in a dead-run, wild-eyed, salivating terror. You're doing an excellent job.