The RCMP proudly state that "...the RCMP were in control during the investigation and ensured the alleged explosives could not be detonated."

So the RCMP were in charge of this deranged plot from day one. How much money was spent to cultivate and groom and feed and water this sad duo? And why is Canada's national police force (aided and abetted by CSIS and CBS) helping to foster these crimes?

So this is what we get from a multi billion dollar surveillance apparatus which spies on each and every Canadian resident.

This is what a runaway authoritarian state looks like. The tail wagging the dog. The ends justify any means. Worse, the police are ultimately just 'following order' themselves. Who dictates the actions of the RCMP, CSIS and CBS? Federal agencies all. Which leads us to the PMO office and our own repressive Stephen Harper.

And the icing on the cake: our Mainstream Media responds like a trained seal. Repeating all the talking points ad infinitem. On command. And unable to state a pivotal fact: two of the offences was committed on March 2, 2013. Which means they could have been charged at any time in March, April, May or June. Why wait? What high level discussions occurred between the police and the AG department?

It is clear. The date of arrest was a choice by the police. Very carefully chosen. With input from Christy Clarke and Harper. Had they not consulted their political masters, heads would roll. Which means Christy Clark's eloquent speech was being carefully written for months. Bravo!

Meanwhile, back at corporate/government HQ, the real criminals are
breaking corruption law we have a name for. Beginning
with the Basi-Virk scandal, which the MSM media still refuse to cover
(remember when Gordon Campbell's AG called off the RCMP when they were
en route to Hawaii to question a highly placed Liberal cabinet minister? (Gary Collins, BC's Finance Minister). Yup, the same Minister who was scheduled to testify that Monday morning, on the first day of the Basi Virk trial, which suddenly got 'disappeared' the same day. Yeah, that one.)

Maybe Nuttall and Korody should have gone into politics instead of
blue collar crime. It pays better. And it comes with free police
protection.

The Tyee continues to be an outstanding voice of truth is a time of increasing spin and media collusion. And kudos to Bob Mackin.

Jeffrey...don't forget that white wash "Missing Womens Inquiry", where the RCMP supplied information on a voluntary basis only and forgot to include they had an ongoing investigation going on at the farm since 1994!

Right on Jeffrey!

Eyes wide open.

The fact that the RCMP "were in control" tells you this alleged plot was home grown all right, RCMP grown. This alleged plot could have never gone anywhere without RCMP involvement. And what I find troubling is the possibility that the RCMP might have lost control of this alleged bomb plot and Canadians could have gotten hurt and killed as a result. What gives the RCMP the right to roll the dice with the health and well being of Canadians like that??

All old stuff from a previous article:

'You will not succeed': BC Premier Clark to Canada Day bomb plotters

By ANDREW MACLEOD
Published July 2, 2013 01:45 pm

- See more at: http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/The...

Yep, seemed like a false-flag right from the beginning.
These two schmucks could not even afford to buy ONE pressure cooker, never mind two. The RCMP learnt from the FBI how to get more funding by their heroic actions uncovering 'terrorists'.
Yah, no way.

Thank you Bob Mackin, you have come very close to the truth.

A sting is usually defined as an operation to entrap criminals and hence prevent crime.

This operation is something more than that, I believe it was designed to further political objectives. Nuttal and Korody were merely the unlucky individuals lured in to play roles they did not understand. The real crime here is unlikely to be addressed in a courtroom.

I've read quite a bit about terrorism entrapment in the US and have been suspicious of this RCMP terrorism sting (or setup) from day one. Their secrecy and their desire to use the words Al Queda despite no connections to this terrorist group is sensationalism at it's worst, and is indicative of a more sinister motive.

There are a lot of funds to be had fighting terrorism and you need to catch terrorists to keep the gravy train running. I am suspicious it is all part of a dirty scheme by our corrupt federal government to soften us up for more attacks on our constitutional rights.

harper knows he's finished and we should all be very concerned about what his scorched earth policies will be.

Entrapment, for sure! How can they charge them with planting explosive devices when they brag the devices wouldn't explode? Scripted? Oh, for sure! And so, amidst all the rah rah of Canada Day celebrations the various initialed groups grab the TV news to scare the pants off the public by assuring us we have nothing to fear because the initialed groups are on the job.
These aren't terrorists. They're a couple of sad losers who got used by the RCMP, CSIS, CBS and who knows which other secret group?
And there's Crispy, looking decidedly uncomfortable, reading the script someone else prepared for her, telling us all how well protected we are. Well, at least she didn't say , as did Dubya, "they hate us for our freedoms."
You know our freedoms...the ones we USED to have...

It is great to see so many Canadians waking up to the incessant manipulation and misinformation from our governments and the RCMP. If they are colluding with the government on this, what are the chances that $90,000 Mike Duffy bribe by harper is being properly investigated?

The corruption of Canadian society by the harper cleptocracy is nearly complete.

I wonder if The Tyee is the best site to gauge whether or not "so many Canadians [are] waking up..."?

It seems to me that many of the regulars here have already woken up, but I have my doubts about the majority of Canadians. We have obviously corrupt governments and corrupt institutions such as the RCMP and CSIS but too many citizens are either paralyzed by fear, have fallen asleep, or fallen into despair that anything can be done about it.

Life is too comfortable for most people to do anything about these crimes against citizens until it will be too late. Some reports out of the US, for example, suggest that most people, especially the younger generations, simply don't care about the end of privacy due to the Big Brother surveillance state. Orwell wrote 1984 as a warning, yet even thought its prophetic view is coming to pass before our eyes, most people either don't care or don't know what to do about it.

I know it's not cool to reply to your own comment, but fight after posting my comment above, I read the latest edition
of Popular Resistance Newsletter, which addresses some of my pessimism. The situation is not yet completely hopeless. Here's the last paragraph of that newsletter and link:

"This is the week when we were shown once again the power of the people from mass nationwide protests, to solidarity actions on specific issues, to individuals standing up in acts of conscience. All of these cases this week showed that in the end, we have the power. We must embrace it, join together and use it to transform the United States and the world."

http://www.popularresistanc...

The other issue is that conspiracy to commit and illegal act is a crime and the date on that count is March 2nd. It really does make you wonder why they "played" with these "culprits" till July 1st. What if they had gotten wise to their manipulation?

The amount of money spent to encourage and assist two socially disadvantaged people to get themselves into more hot water than they'll ever be able to cope with would have been better spent by the education system, or the mental health system. These people were on welfare. How did they manage to afford to buy those pressure cookers? They don't have a car so you want me to believe, what, they caught public transit and took the ferry over to the Island with "weapons of mass destruction" in their luggage? Then what? Planted them and caught the bus back to the mainland? All this on welfare money?
I remember how the same gang of thugs tried to make it look as if Weibo Ludwig was blowing up pipelines and gas wells...when their own surveillance cameras showed him still on his farm...and I remember barns being burned in Quebec...
Oh, I'm paranoid, of course I am! That doesn't mean I've got my head so far up my basic fundament I can't see how they're trying to strip us of the very things which at one time made this country a place of freedom!

Hi Anne. Glad to see you're still plugging away :) Thanks for calling it for what it is. UN believable.

They certainly can't be trusted with this kind of action. The cops involved in these kinds of actions are not our local small town cops. They work upstairs where the air is rarefied and smells of politics and Ottawa. I've done some electrical work in the Courtenay Detachment and the feeling between the grunts on the ground floor and Subdivision upstairs was the difference between living on the coast and living in Ottawa. Strange people working up there.

This is big time politics and they are going to milk the situation until the cow is all used up and they have to sacrifice another.

When I first heard the news, I thought "how convenient" (Canada Day and all the controversy surrounding information gathering). Then a second thought, "the RCMP blew up barns in Quebec". No, I don't trust the RCMP, I don't trust CSIS, and I don't trust the government to be telling the truth. Even Christy's comments were well scripted and I suspect written days before the event. Thousands of people owe their jobs to spying on their fellow Canadians--no plots, no jobs!

The terrorism bogey-man is nothing but a paper tiger to soften the public up for attacks on our freedoms.

The "convenience" part of your comment was mentioned on this same topic a few days ago. However, I wonder about the (right now) 23 positive support tics you got -- whether they are due to this part of your post or whether they were in support of this point you made:
"No, I don't trust the RCMP, I don't trust CSIS, and I don't trust the government to be telling the truth."

I am somewhat perturbed if this part was more on the minds of your supporters, because if it was, it certainly shows a cinical attitude on the part of a lot of TYEE readers towards the people that are being paid to protect us.

and how many Canadians do you think "trust" the RCMP, CSIS, and the Government to be telling the truth? not many?
in recent years, the RCMP and CSIS had committed various acts that have indeed LOST the public trust, and inspired instead public anger, and impatience with their ham handed ways of doing "business" in the cop industry.

as for the government....it's well known that they lie out of both sides of their mouths all day long if it gets their pet projects through...and to defend their guilty bums from public censure...just look at Harper and his Conservative caucus these days....lies right and left...with nary more than a bare smidgeon of integrity to be found in the entire caucus....

I gave your arguments a vote; however, if you are totally correct in assessing people's reaction to our police and our government, then we have reached a state of anarchy. Althought there are a lot of protests throughout the country, and particularly with our Native peoples (who have every right to do so), I don't think we have reached that stage yet. So far, we have continued to wait for every 4 or 3 years until an election is called. If we had abosolutely no faith in either institution (this doesn't include the Senate, which IMO should be abolished outright), we would look like Egypt today.

it's really hard to stir up the masses enough to make a big stink...the "Mass" Inertia is just too high, when there are so many other competing sources of "entertainment"....distracting people with such "bread and circus" items as "Hockey Night in Canada", or "Monday Night Football"....and so on...who's going to pay attention to these matters unless some highly sensational news items point to such government misconduct and criminal behaviours...and then we vote the same rascals back into office...because it's "better the devil we know than the one we don't"....B.C.'s recent election showed this principle in spades...so i don't see public uproar or rebellion at all in the near future, unless Hockey is cut off, and the supermarkets run out of food, while the bank forecloses on their homes....then there will be some restiveness...over National Security, not so much....people have been utterly propagandised by the MSM and Government that all these National Security Police State surveillances are necessary and important to "protect" us, and keep the "terrorists" "at bay", in the eternal war on terror....all in the name of Capitalism and "good government", whilst they (the Corporatocrats) strip the populace and the land of all resources, by day, and retreat to their gated communities, by night. this is definitely not going to go away if they can help it...but most people are not interested...they BELIEVE that they are safer when Big Brother is watching them....they've forgotten what Nazi Germany was like, what the DDR (Deutsche Demokratisches Republik, or "East Germany") was like with the entire population Stasi-ised.....spying on each other and reporting their neighbours' peccadillos to the monlithic state security apparatus....

I posted the following comment as a reply to Jackal, but it does not show for some reason. I'm posting it again here as a reply to kasi, since he mentioned Germany.
***************************************************
Jackal, I agree with your assessment of the current state of affairs in Canada, that we haven't reached that stage yet. However, one of my biggest concerns may be that most citizens do not awaken to what's going on until it will be too late.

I'm a cult survivor, and a common metaphor to explain how someone can get caught up in a cult is the parable of the frog and boiling water. I don't know if it is scientifically factual, but it goes like this: put a frog in a pot of boiling water and it immediately jumps out because it recognizes the danger, but put a frog in a pot of cold water and slowly bring it to a boil and the frog will not recognize the growing danger, so won't jump out until it is too late. It explains how some people, otherwise intelligent and aware, can get sucked into cults and not realize until it is too late.

I just read a fascinating book excerpt that explains this phenomenon in the political realm. It's from the book, "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45" by Milton Mayer. The excerpt is titled: "But then it was too late". It's a short excerpt you can read at: http://www.press.uchicago.edu/...

Here's a couple relevant quotations from that excerpt:

"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people."

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security."

It is extremely apt for our situation today.

See my comments to Perry above. Thanks.

See my reply to Perry above. Thanks

Jackal, I agree with your assessment of the current state of affairs in Canada, that we haven't reached that stage yet. However, one of my biggest concerns may be that most citizens do not awaken to what's going on until it will be too late.

I'm a cult survivor, and a common metaphor to explain how someone can get caught up in a cult is the parable of the frog and boiling water. I don't know if it is scientifically factual, but it goes like this: put a frog in a pot of boiling water and it immediately jumps out because it recognizes the danger, but put a frog in a pot of cold water and slowly bring it to a boil and the frog will not recognize the growing danger, so won't jump out until it is too late. It explains how some people, otherwise intelligent and aware, can get sucked into cults and not realize until it is too late.

I just read a fascinating book excerpt that explains this phenomenon in the political realm. It's from the book, "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45" by Milton Mayer. The excerpt is titled: "But then it was too late". It's a short excerpt you can read at: http://www.press.uchicago.e...

Here's a couple relevant quotations from that excerpt:

"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people."

"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security."

It is extremely apt for our situation today.

I understand what you are saying, and to the extent that it happened in Germany, and happened in Russia where my parents lived and escaped, and is happening in a lot of Muslim countries in the Middle east, and so forth. I also see our Canadian voters as being politically lathergic and our MSM as being even more so: however, (and, according to my brother) I am as left wing as you can get (having been labelled as Communist and Socialist in letters to the editor of the local paper), I still have some faith in a few of the people in the Federal Conservative party as well as a few of the local Liberal party. There is no doubt that our local MP is toeing the Party line rather than representing SOME, but not ALL of our constituents. You also have to remember that a lot of the younger and middle-aged people ARE working, but are up to their rear ends in debt, don't know the meaning of saving for a rainy day, and DON'T want to disrupt the status quo, so will vote for Harper and Christy. I've also said many a time that there are a lot of stupid people out there who haven't got a clue, don't watch the news, and as I've also said before, are controlled by the right side of their brains which make them conservative in any case . OK, Jackal, stop!

A 5 month long project to capture would be terrorists. In all that time did none of these law enforcement officials ever consider trying to convince the suspects not to blow stuff up or commit crimes of any kind? Educating people is a far better way to combat crime. Then again if we lived in a truly equal society would there still be terrorism?

Methinks Trevor Aaronson is right in this, a direct play for publicity using disadvataged folks. A page right out of the FBI playbook. Sensational news, get the sheeple heated up and further restrict rights and freedoms in the name of keeping us safe.

"The RCMP and its partner agencies used all of its available resources
during this investigation," Rideout said. "I'm not prepared to go into
the details of how we were able to disrupt and assure public safety, but
there are a vast number of resources and specialty groups that are
available to us. We employed most of them."

This level of secrecy for a couple of social misfits? C'mon you have to be joking especially when the RCMP state categorically they're not affiliated to any group.
I certainly hope this is not a set up by our "enforcement" agencies.

I do wonder, does anyone smell a rodent?

We British Columbians must exhibit zero tolerance for the aiding and abetting of terrorist plots, bringing them to 11th hour fruition and potentially putting at risk innocent people.

It is becoming clear that this couple was guided, resourced and potentially even radicalized by the authorities. They were not even present in Victoria to plant the bombs! This was clearly undertaken by the authorities, and they were even flying helicopters well into the evening spotlighting the ground. All an attempt to legitimize their clandestine activities of manifesting what may have simply been discussions with a couple clearly struggling with their role in society.

It matters not that the authorities are enabled by draconian and ill conceived laws that enable entrapment. We should have zero tolerance for such laws, unfortunately such events are self perpetuating and we will now see even more enabling legislation and resources provided, which will result in even more outrageous undertakings putting innocent Canadians further at risk.

Moreover the political exploitation of these events serve to undermine our freedoms. We should be outraged in Canada that our government is surveilling us, just as the NSA is doing in the US. However an event like this will twist the story and we will suddenly be celebrating and encouraging such criminal invasions of our digital lives and privacy.

Not to mention the exploitation yet to be elected leaders, such as Christy Clark, have exhibited stemming from this largely fabricated event. The real questions should be focused on exactly who among our political overlords directed this plot to land on the steps of the legislature during a National holiday celebrating the Country and the freedoms we once enjoyed.

This will tighten the noose on what are now defined as Multi issue extremists, which includes activists and many of us here, now that the definition has been skewed to conflate activism with terrorism.

None of this bodes well for our future and instead of embracing ever escalating surveillance and intrusions into our daily lives while being ushered into wildly inappropriate legal definitions of our lives and activities we should be resisting at every turn demanding exactly what legislation enables events like the Canada day bombing and pressuring governments to reverse course.

How is it the evidence, and chain of custody was surrendered 1 day after they were arrested?

The landlord/landlady allowed media into their basement suite, she had no authority, the accused are still innocent, we did CSIS and the RCMP clear the residence so quickly"

Why were media allowed in the suite, allowed to go through drawers, take pictures, read letters, how come the RCMP allowed this? Are the police not investigating the dark man in the black pick up truck.

No crime scene is cleared within one day, tell me the police were monitoring the home, the media were allowed in because the Feds wanted maximum publicity.

That begs the question, how did the RCMP know there was nothing of importance in the home?

False flag, this was done to perhaps take attention away from this..

http://www.ctvnews.ca/polit...

Three members of Harper`s office involved, the Conservative party involved, and they wanted Duffy to shut up..Timing eh!

My Mother`s neighbor had a police incident last summer, mom had to leave her house for a day, the neighbors house was yellow crime scened taped for 5 days, no one shot, no suicide, a shot was fired by a distraught son of the neighbor, the end result, a stern warning and a patch in the wall.

Yet a so-called major terrorism act and police let the residence go within a day.

I call bullshit!

I'd say that some people were looking for a promotion!
If nothing else helps, then create some terrorist attack and make sure to get the headlines for a week.

With little or no real evidence the Cowboys give Clark another great Phot op, just before the by-election. With lots of evidence hidden the Cowboys ignore the BC Railgate stuff and Clark's involvement in that. Pick your friends EH.

Kinda blows a big hole in the "self-radicalized" story, doesn't it?

'The Security State.' ......How to Fall in Love with Fear and Chains.

Harperland Productions Inc.

Assorted cast and crew.

Dumb and Dumber Big Media plays their usual Neville Chamberlain role.

Was RCMP Insp. Kevin deBruyckere involved? Just asking.......

Well said Jeffrey. As we continue to learn more about these would-be terrorists, it becomes obvious just how much help such hapless folks needed to get them to this point.

Also, how is they got arrested in Abbotsford on Canada Day when they were supposedly placing bombs at the Legislature in Victoria? just wondering

You do realize that you're pulling a CNN. Basically that is making wild speculations when not all of the info is in.

Joy!
Harpers Police State is alive and well.
Harper was building Jail Cells at $300k each, while the crime rate has been falling.
Stockwell Day said at the time that the new cells where for people who had not been caught yet.
This is why I'm no longer a proud canadian.
Guess I'll be arrested next, welcome to conservative hell!!!

Well I don't have any RRSPs or Pension worth a pot to piss in, seeing as I have had to provide for my own employment for so long. So maybe it will come down to us all being jailed and put up at the taxpayers expense. And we won't be the taxpayers anymore if they put us in jail.

it has been a while since I've visited and I AM PLEASED to see a high degree of skepticism being presented. It is warranted and welcome

The Mr. Big scenarios are a unique set of circumstances where they are after a confession. However, in a case like this, where is the threshold between a 'terrorist' and someone who had been nudged and coddled down that path by the authorities?

""They've been successful here with the prosecutions because they're able
to get people to go as far as push the button or deliver the bomb."

This says it all. Intent must be proven for a prosecution to stand.

Jeez, this sting pales in comparison to so many successful ones of the past. Have the rcmp just given up on 'organized crime' ie bikers, mob gangs, internet fraudsters are they just mainstream good guys these days?
(I caught a repeat of biker wars)

My goodness media has made TV movies, documentaries and books about semi /successful crime operations that have used entrapment to catch real thugs. Few complained.

I agree with most of the comments, our police are losing their credibility. Too many folks are cynical about this entire 'presentation'. That can't be good.
Isn't everything about perception, advertisers and ratings? Law enforcement needs a new reality TV program: call it 'free radicals' or 'how low will you go' or

'refried Al qaeda' or 'Under pressure (cookers)' something like that.....

"... losing their credibility... " ??? G - 20 destroyed any they had left.

I wonder when the conspiracy to commit crimes against protesters trials of the Head Honchos are going to start? It will be some time after their conviction that the police/CSIS's credibility might start moving a bit towards the zero mark.

I take your point.
But there were times when the fed police actually went after the bad guys example the biker gangs in quebec, slow off the mark and they went to extremes to convict certain individuals.
And in BC they finally convicted willy P. A good effort too late

In our own area of northern BC on the island most of the crap our local rcmp has to put up with have been petty, crimes, fights, thefts, grow ops, suicides, managing ridiculous public events like rock concerts etc... Its work that has little respect from the public, but its not much different than being a paramedic or ferry worker. I'd be jaded.

Frankly I sympathise with folks who become rcmp officers, they get located here for a year or more, get to know a community, get involved, think they have found a home, (sometimes) and then they are relocated. But thats what a career is about I guess
.
We have had the opportunity to rid our village of the rcmp but people thought long and hard about it, and the alternative scenario was worse. Unfortuneately we havent reached a level of maturity to manage our own affairs.

What is telling is the number of controversies regarding our esteemed federal police force, when one tries to find something redeeming about the rcmp on the net. There's nothing there.
The only news is 'bad' news.

I figure in a decade or more we may do away with the fed cops and hire private contractors to police our streets. They will suppliment their investigative efforts with 'coke a cola' ads on their crusers. The laws wont change only worse.
I wonder who we really blame, the grunts who take orders or the head honchos and politicians.
Pappy always said the working man is his own worst enemy. All they have done, the federal government, is create an environment of Us vs Them. They convey some romantic, freakish notion of policing, but it certainly isn't mine and its not beleivable. Bad marketing.

I live in the Comox Valley (60,000 pop) - a slightly bigger small pond then small up island communities (350 - 7000 pop) (excepting CR.) I agree with your take on the situation re bad PR, a few locals and occasional vacationing predators not being able to police themselves.

Small town RCMP are individuals, and they know we know where they live and they try to keep things together with the locals and still "uphold the law" . I know some cops that managed 2 man detachments in 'northern towns'. Even they can't believe what management has done to the force and to their reputation, and how new members don't have the same standards as the old ones did.

As for private cops ... the US has private cops. Every prosecutor is elected, every sheriff is a hired gun w/ his revenue retinue thugs - These are the people who are committing the most egregious violations of persons not allied with their power base.

The locals can't be trusted any more then the 'come from aways'.

We have local interactions with police from a detachment with about 25 cops in it. Some are smucks and some are not. We haven't had problems during demonstrations because we and they keep our acts together. During the NEB hearings on the Northern Gateway Pipeline there was a different breed of cop show up from somewhere else. They looked like they were high on steroids, pumped up, jumpy, hyper aggressive and just spoiling to kill someone. Good thing only 2 of them were that way.

So:
- Small detachment - everybody knows each other = direct accountability.
- Mid sized detachment some anonymity occurs, police and inhabitants = less direct accountability.
- Large city police detachment or large gatherings (ie G-20) - total anonymity ( except for YouTube and Twitter Ha.. Ha . Ha.) = no accountability.
- Large gatherings - party time - lets go crack some heads. Troops brought in from elsewhere to crack heads. = Anon militarized riot police in masks w/ no nametags. And the courts don't help cause they are part of the problem.

I'd settle for a thorough house cleaning of miss fits in the ranks and brass at the top, massive safeguards of individual rights w/ direct accountability for any misdemeanours ( no law unto themselves) and independent oversight of the whole process.

You know, its not only the RCMP that has to clean house. At one time you had members in the Force that were mostly honest, hardworking and just in their dealings with the public. But this is true of nearly every profession. Teachers were the same way. But society has changed -- for the worse. And police have to deal with it every day. Teachers have to deal with children everyday whose parents have no respect for the police, for the judicial system and for each other. And then you have the politicians, who, seemingly have no respect for anybody or anything but the almighty dollar. Things have gone to pot --literally -- in our society, and how do you go about cleaning house in a situation like that? imagine what Quebec is going to have to do to get back to some semblence business integrity? Where will they start?

time to charge the rcmp with aiding and abetting that should cause a change in tactics .................also time to charge prosecutor with millishous prosecution with there sentence to mirror that that they were seeking