My favorite part is how the Righties do everything they CAN to strangle and destroy public education ... and then they're "shocked" and "outraged" when the system fails. omfg

Want better graduates? Support top-quality PUBLIC education.

This is not a new issue. http://betrayed-whyeducatio...

NEWS FLASH:
Local grads unprepared for college!

McDonald's ready for local grads!
United Rainbow Ditch Diggers prepared for local grads!

"for the students graduating from Lake City HS who apply to North Idaho College, more than 60% will have to take remedial math before they can start into regular community college classes. More than 60%…oh my! "

Let's first look at how many LCSC graduating students are going to NIC, AND it is important to look at where these students are at in the graduating class.

Let's be real here, the top students are going to be leaving CDA to go to 4-year colleges/universities. That leaves the non-top students that may or may not be going to NIC. I think it is safe to assume that many of these are going not as a first thought, but maybe because of pressure from parents, etc.

So, LCHS has a grad class of about 300. If even 10% are going to NIC, that is 30 students. Then let's look at the 60% number that is being cited, that is 18 students. 18 out of 300 that are need to take a remedial course. Not that high of a number.

It is also important to realize that these remedial classes are money makers for NIC, and as their budgets get cut and cut, they are looking for ways of generating revenue.

Math curriculum is driven the ISAT. According to the State Board of Education, the math ISAT only correspond to 40% of the material required by colleges. Teaching to the test is dumbing down the curriculum. High stakes testing has damaged the educational system.

We need to go to a European model of education where kids are tested and split off around the 8th or 9th grade to either vocational type of skills or the more engineering and science oriented skills.

It needs to be recognized and accepted by the powers that be, that not every kid is going to, or wants to, be a rocket scientist.

The Common Core which will be implemented in our schools uses a hands on/visual approach to teaching math. That is a much more successful and real world technique than the current "stare at the page and memorize the answer" technique.

once your trustees find that Glenn Beck linked Common Core to Agenda 21, heads will explode.

Has already happened.

But I do not know any teacher who uses a "stare at the page and memorize the answer" approach. None. All math instruction requires students to actually do math.

I don't mean that as a put-down toward teachers, I'm just talking about basic math teaching methods. I should have been more precise. I remember when I went to school in this district we were taught the arithmetic, multiplication, etc. procedures, but it was nothing more than how it looks on paper. With the Common Core they are actually using objects and talking about how and why it's relevant to the real world. That will be a huge improvement to students math skills. In summary: the district is already working towards improving student success.

And just for the record, the decision to adopt the Common Core was made in January 2011. It took time for teacher training and overall preparation before it could be implemented. The current school board can stake NO claim in the advancement of the district's curriculum.

I see what you mean, but I don't know of any teachers who just teach pure math. They all talk about real world applications and have students use their knowledge to solve real world problems. I sat in on a calculus class this week that ended with some practical applications.

Much of the problem can be blamed on allowing children to make it through the lower grades not knowing their basic math facts. Knowledge builds upon knowledge. You cannot succeed in higher math functions without mastering the basics.

Ann initiated testing in basic math facts which led to remediation in every elementary school math class in the district. Kudos to her for identifying problems and working on solutions!

Argue with the numbers all you want, but the bottom line is no student should be allowed to graduate without proficiency in Math and English.

"Ann initiated testing in basic math facts which led to remediation in every elementary school math class in the district. Kudos to her for identifying problems and working on solutions!"

What?! You need to clarify this. Are you saying that there was no testing of basic math facts in the CdA school district elementary schools prior to Ann Seddon being on the board? Are you saying that there was no remediation in elementary school math classes prior to her being appointed to the board one year ago?

There was no basic skills testing in the lower grades until Ann came on the board. There was no remediation for basic math skills.

My kids were skills tested in Winton 12 years ago.

What are you talking about? I have taught "in the lower grades" for 6 years in the CdA school district and there is most certainly basic skills testing and remediation provided and has been since I have been in the district. This is NOT some magical thing that just appeared when Ann Seddon joined the board!!

If we could figure out how to make the mathematics curriculum more relevant and obviate comments such as Cindy's and scootermom's, we'd have a better educated populace, and less need for post-secondary remediation. From my (very limited) tutoring experience, I suspect that elementary education is more likely the place we need to focus than secondary. If someone doesn't get the early essentials, remediation may not fix the problem. Math skills ARE essential, but humans are nothing if not adaptive; just as you can get by with one arm or one leg, or no sight, you can work your way around innumeracy. That doesn't mean it's not a handicap.

What I would much prefer seeing as a grad requirement is real world math. Students should be able to calulate interest, understand loans and mortgages, prepare household budgets and know how to balance a gosh-darn checkbook. The high school my son attends offers such a class. The kids call it Dummy Math.
Grrr...

They do offer those classes: "consumer math." Colleges want more.

Why?

That is a question to address to college boards. I just know what their requirements are. I do not know how they create them. Mary's claim is that public schools are not preparing students for college. She was NOT claiming that students do not need to know higher math.

Please refer to my blog post of lat Friday, which wasn't posted on Huck's. I think it is a good example of the other side of the argument. http://bayviews.blogspot.co...

I wonder if this is any different than in the 70's when I graduated CHS. If you were average or less you went to NIC to get yer stuff together (or avoid having to go to work.)

Many of the people I graduated either didn't continue with education and instead went mining, logging or headed off to Alaska. Right now, those kind of jobs that do not require a more educated work force are now in diminishing supply.

So now students are coming out and joining NIC for post secondary education and are having to relearn information, that they WERE taught in school, Possibly because of lack of parental guidance, disruptive social groups, or excessive use of drugs they did not use the information they were given in High School. They (the graduates) are now realizing that without an education they will economically fail in life.

So, now these students, who at one time would not even go to NIC are now hitting the college in increasing numbers. So, yes I expect numbers to be in the middle as they are.

I would like to see a stat on how many people that are Mary's age returning to college that are having to take remedial English? Bet it is more than 90%? Does that mean that her school was a failure?

When people like Mary use stats incorrectly to create a perceived wrong so that her power base can blame it on the Unions just makes me sorry that she is so consumed in anger and hate of any progressive idea and that her idea of a good school system is to strip it down to nothing, and then sell it to a commercial entity (K12). And even sadder is that her misrepresentations are supported by well meaning, but ignorant voters that make up the Coeur d'Alene School District.

If you want better schools, don't have people that homeschool their kids be in charge of a PUBLIC school system. Don't have a school board that rams it's isolated Christian beliefs down the throats of teachers and students.

Vote REAL-LIFE intelligence in May. VOTE Hearn & Christa..

Regardless if you for or against crazy Mary everyone should be concerned if these statistics are accurate. Regardless of whether or not these are the "cream of the crop" or not, graduates should be above a remedial level, period. If your thoughts jump immediately to ideology and partisanship and that is more important to you than our future (yes, the children are our future), then you are doing nothing to solve the problem and are in fact, part of the problem. Put the politics aside and do what you can to change the system and help the kids, that's the only way a difference will be made.

Thank you for an intelligent contribution.

Agree 100% Cocolvr!

Do all students need to be prepared for college math? Should we change Idaho's graduation requirements to four years of math instead of the current two?
EDIT: instead of the current three?

Heavens no! Like scootermom, I've never used Algebra a day in my life and all that class did was lower my GPA.

Sigh, math haters. If you've ever been at a 7/11 and thought to yourself with the five dollars in my pocket I can buy 2 of this and 2 of that OR 4 of these and 1 of those, yer using basic algebra ($5=2a+2b=4c+d).

True, but even remedial classes at the college level are more complex than that.

(And before you lable me as a math hater... I'm a data analyst. I earn a living with math.)

Strongly agree, Jim. Part of education is training the brain to think and there is no more pure form of logic than mathematics. You may believe you have never used algebra again, but you have. And you're better for it.

Your post hurt my brain. May have to take the rest of the day off.

I believe all students who are planning on going to college (including NIC) should be prepared for college math. Granted there will always be students who just can't accomplish that, but I think the large number of students needing remedial math more reflects a lack of hard work ethic and discipline rather than ability. I also agree that the primary responsibility lies with the parents. Teachers cannnot be expected to teach a child everything they need to know. Parents are responsible for teaching morals and ethics, teachers are responsible for educating, and the community is responsible for providing the infrastructure and opportunities for those children who are willing to work hard.

Agreed all around.

I took remedial math in college. An entire year.

I finally took, and passed, the math class that gave me the credits I needed to graduate with a BA. I then went on to get a JD.

I have never needed any of the math that was required. I have never needed algebra in my life, or my profession. Not. One. Bit. I have never encountered a binomial squared and seriously doubt that I ever will.

Total and complete waste of time.

As one with math/cs on my parchment and whose children are engineers and mathematicians I have to ask, really?!?

My life has been built on math, one way or another. From guidance systems to telecommunications, data communications, digital television... the list goes on.

I guess you don't use that PC, talk on the phone (cellular or wired), listen to the radio, watch television or drive a modern vehicle? It is people with strong math skills who create and expand these capabilities.

Sorry you didn't get the opportunity to understand and employ or apply the basic principles in a personally relevant way. "Total and complete waste of time?" I think not.

I did not say math was useless, just that the requirement made no sense for me.

I use computers, and medicine, and art and literature. Just like you reap the benefits of centuries of jurisprudence. I don't think you should be denied the protections of the law just because you can't cite the relevant section of the United States Code.

The question is one of graduation requirements. I absolutely agree that students with math apptitudes should be encouraged to take all the advanced classes possible. Not every student is cut out to be an engineer, that doesn't mean they aren't smart or capable.

Cindy, when I graduated requirements were four full years of math, four English, three foreign language, etc. No, I did not graduate from a school around here. It is important we all basically understand how things we use every day actually work. A foundation which includes algebra, geometry and some statistics is absolutely necessary. Calculus is needed if you're interested in physics or probability. While much of what we use today appears very simple the technical complexity beneath it astounds. Maybe it's ok not to care about it. To me, if you're not understanding the tech you get left behind. Not a good place from which to begin.

Remedial math for a year to get through basic mathematical logic yet you have a JD? Sums up the whole legal field in a nutshell.

I understand Dewey, Cheatem, & Howe, LLP is hiring.

AMEN!

Raises hand, entered UofI straight from CHS. During high school I stopped taking math as soon as I could. I prefered advanced biology, german, etc. Took Math 050 at UofI. Managed to obtain a PhD in geochemistry. Still dislike math.

Are high school classes supposed to prepare ALL students for college math? No. Idaho requires two years of math to graduate. Students on a college track should take four years of math. I would wager that many NIC-bound students have not been on a college track.

That's no knock on NIC. I went there for a year and thought my classes were excellent.

High school does not provide college prep classes to all students. If Mary wants to argue that we should, she should do so.

Actually the State of Idaho requires 3 (three) years of Math and 3 (three) years of Science. Additionally, 1 (one) of the math years must be taken during the senior year of high school. This was part of the State's efforts to reduce remediation. It took effect with the graduating class of '13, so I would say it's a bit early to say whether or not it's having an impact just yet.

Right you are. I was using Mary's class of 2012. Here are the Idaho graduation requirements:

103-02b Mathematics will include instruction in addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, percentages, mathematical reasoning and probability.

105-01d. Mathematics. Four (4) credits are required. Secondary mathematics includes Applied Mathematics, Business Mathematics, Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry, Fundamentals of Calculus, Probability and Statistics, Discrete Mathematics, and courses in mathematical problem solving and reasoning. For all public school students who enter high school at the 9th grade level in Fall 2009 or later, six (6) semester credits are required. For such students, secondary mathematics includes instruction in the following areas:

i. Two (2) credits of Algebra I or courses that meet the Idaho Algebra I Content Standards as approved by the State Department of Education

ii. Two (2) credits of Geometry or courses that meet the Idaho Geometry Content Standards as
approved by the State Department of Education; and

iii. Two (2) credits of mathematics of the student’s choice.

That means that the highest math Idaho REQUIRES graduates to complete is Geometry. At most schools, that is a 10th grade class for college bound students. Most colleges want students to have completed Trig at a minimum. Calculus is preferred.

Good point on the geometry. The challenge is to find ways to get students and parents and everyone involved in the total education process to recognize the need for better proficiency in math. It's not that each budding student needs to be an engineer or something else that requires rigorous math, but having a solid basis from which they can operate will help them complete faster, thus saving money to them and to the taxpayer who are a major funding partner in the public education system.

Mary's "points" are always political not factual, actual data analysis is beyond her. You want better results? Since the righties don't think children belong to the community then let the slacker parents work with their own kids to better prepare them.