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I believe women have great power...it's the power of conscience.
Women don't want to sit in the back of the bus. We should be ordained and for one of you that say you would leave the church there are ten that would return. Let's get rid of this last moldering vehicle of sexism. I do control the checkbook and my money goes to the nuns until we are ordained.
This Catholic woman says donate your money where you wish, and dream on. Not going to happen, thank goodness.
Never say never!
The new Pope will be Catholic.
Well done, Phyllis. Please keep speaking up and keep the conversation going.
I was reading your article while listening to the news of the election of the new pope. Christiane Amanpour mentioned the hope of many U.S. Catholics to see women deacons. It won't happen if no one talks about it.
Christiane Amanpour also mentioned, the last time a Pope was elected, that the Catholic church was "heavily, heavily involved in the Ugandan massacre" . She's kind of out there on many things.
I didn't know that about Uganda. But she isn't out there on the issue of women deacons - she is on target.
It's all about fear and control. "We've got to save our phony Bologna jobs!" Mel Brooks ("The Gov.")
Should I appreciate the irony of the red and the black trying to settle on an issue that is pretty black and white?
I just saw John Allen on CNN. I wish NCR would think of at least one other Vatican spokesperson. Maybe not fire the guy, but give an alternative. He is NOT an authority over there! He missed out on the problems in the Vatican, the problems that have blown up in the last year: mismanagement and corruption etc. He sounds more like an apologist for the Vatican rather than an analyst. And his expression of the role of women in the church is so out of touch.
Lets get women back to being ordained deacons. Then there will be no ground for anyone to stand upon why women would not be allowed to be ordained priests...one small step for women...one giant leap for the good of the Catholic Church!
You haven't read recent changes in the canon law...deacons no longer have the same "ordained" standing as priests and bishops...deacons are still considered ordained for "service"...the priests and bishops aren't. Women don't need another two-tier system...
Women dont' need another two-tier system - but they need a foot in the door. This could be a beginning but doesn't have to define the end.
Why would we once again just be considered as "servants"?? Although, that's exactly who and what Jesus was and told us all to be...women don't need ordination to be servants...we've been servants for all time...
You are right, but even men must serve as deacons first before the priesthood. I know you want it all and I wish for more radical change too, but it just is not likely. Pragmatism.
I used to work in a Catholic seminary...many men were ordained deacons one week and ordained a priest the following week...what a waste of time and money!! It was as though the diaconate meant nothing but a hoop to be jumped through!
A priest factory? I did not know those existed. In my own diocese, deacons are common, priests are the exception, not the rule. Just a few years ago, 33 deacons created, all but two permanently. Priests were ordained a day or so later, all two of them.
Don't know what the Church is to do, but whatever the remedy is, it must be found and found soon.
A strange procedure... and unacceptable. I have never heard about such situation in my country. Deacons have to wait (and work pastorally) for at least one year to be ordained to priesthood. Perhaps there are exceptions but very rare and I have never heard of it.
Canon law states that they have to be deacons for at least 6 months before they can be ordained presbyters. It is a good step. Why not learn the role of servant first before their life just revolves around the sacraments.
I think it's likely but it requires time. I don't think it would happen during Francis' reign but he can open a path leading to it.
But will he? That is a very open question right now. We know LGBT are dead in the water, but perhaps married priests and women in the diaconate can at least be discussed.
Even small steps are better from nothing.
Indeed. Come, let us walk forward in peace, knowing that God's love is with us always until the breaking of the world, but, to quote a fine Catholic, here on earth, God's work must truly be our own.
Which is precisely why we should never even entertain the notion of "ordaining" deaconesses: it's a foot in the door. And I've never heard a woman whining for "ordination" who was actually able and willing to uphold Church teaching on abortion, homosexuality, or much of anything else.
But nevertheless the office of deacon belongs to clergy. From the psychological viewpoint it could lead to further change.
"Of course, the elephant in the Sistine Chapel is female, and she's not leaving."
And she's wearing a brown polyester pants suit. And a lapel pin. And she's not going to be ordained any time soon.
Interesting. I never knew that women have the power to stop and clean up sexual abuse. No wonder sexual abuse NEVER happens in a family, right? Oh, wait, the majority of abuse happens in families. Hmmm...something doesn't add up.
Actually I agree with your comment. After 25 years of working with teens who were abused by father, step fathers and uncles and brothers, guess who did nothing about it? That's right, the powerful woman in the family. And the sad thing is this is still going on in the world. Don't be to quick to exclude women from sin and collusion.
Please give up on this broken record about deacons. Having female deacons solves nothing. Christianity needs a new narrative that speaks to the modern world, not the same tired old stories told now by women.
One new narrarative is to honestly acknowledge that Jesus was Jewish and considered a rabbi and that the first followers were Jewish. Today - a woman can be a rabbi. Perhaps that is a model for the Roman Catholic Church - just bypass having women deacons - and go right to ordaining them as priests.
I'll meet you back here in 300 years, Sue...it will have happened by then. :-)
I don't entirely agree since being deacons is a step toward being priests. Women should be deacons first as a step forward toward that ultimate goal. I know the Church moves at a glacial pace, especially on this point, but perhaps under Francis, we may see something.
There are transitional deacons and permanent deacons...do you really think that any women would be ordained as "transitional"????
At first, probably not. I think married priests will get the nod to move from permanent to transitional before women. Does not mean I agree, just saying.
Not immediately. But it will be the first step. And when people get used to women being part of the clergy, the time will come for the step 2: ordination to full priesthood. Too hasty changes are often rejected. Changes with small steps are usually accepted after some time.
The Vatican has excellent women on staff working in what are called the #3 positions - it is time to promote them upwards to assist with the reorganization, restructuring and good governance internally. As well the little women's first insert once a month in the official Vatican newspaper that was started last spring- should become a daily item. It is about time that people around the world - hear about the reality of the present role or lack of it - of women in the Roman Catholic Church.
I don't understand where the audacity comes from to write something so blanket as, "Women are hopping mad about what has been going on."
This speaks not for my wife nor all the faithful Catholic women we know.
I don't mind pressing issues of one's conscience that don't challenge settled dogma or doctrine, but don't be so vain as to ascribe your position to the entire half of the Church that is female!
Perhaps your wife would like to speak for herself???
I'm pretty sure we can trust him to know his wife's opinion about these matters. I've always found it hilarious that the worst enemies of those who subscribe to your brand of feminism are the women who disagree with you.
Most men have no idea what their wife really thinks because they seldom ask her...and in your case, I'm sure she would be unable to voice her true thoughts if they are in anyway oppositional to yours.
Wow! "Most men seldom ask what their wife thinks"!. Talk about wild statements. And he knows what his wife thinks, you do not. Come on, get real.
Oh please, by your account there's never been a more oppressed group than bourgeois white women. Another thing-- I also find it hilarious that the people who claim that the family structure is oppressive also never have more than two children, whereas it often happens that the Catholic women who disagree with you have large families.
Where exactly did I state that?
And I had 4 kids...one is deceased (accidental drowning at age 17, severe brain damage, dead at 29)...married to a Catholic clergyman...
Yes, God has a very funny sense of humor...yes, she does.
Very interesting -- absolutely all the women and men I know think it's centuries past time baptized women were "allowed" the same opportunities in ministry and decision-making as baptized men; I concur.
And your theological basis for this position is? Besides Oprah, I mean.
You - speak for your wife and all the other women!
Exactly. I have yet to meet anyone who was seriously upset by the men only thing. Some will look askance at it, but It's not a big deal. However, there seems to be a tradition on this web site of saying very large things with very little evidence. I think they talk each other into it. And then they talk about the church being out of touch with the people!
"The general consensus from the sidelines is that women in authority would have cleaned up the mess of the sex abuse scandals more quickly and cleanly than the bumbling hierarchs."
Seriously? The Magdalen launderies in Ireland were run by nuns.
Bigger question...why do you lot care so much about ordination? Half the articles on this site blast the RCC as a cesspit of every bad 'ism out there. If you find so distasteful, then do the rest of us a favor and leave. Join the Episcopalians and follow them down the path to extinction.