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I have seen video footage of the violence against Palestinians by the Israeli forces...this was twenty years ago. The Israeli's have become everything that we hated about Hitler's regime. Maybe there's no gas chambers, but does that make it OK? As an American, I am ashamed of what our troops have done in the middle east. I am ashamed that my government continues to give money to the Israeli's. I am ashamed that my government has continued to perpetuate this brutality. Please forgive those of us who are trying to change that. Please forgive the Jewish people around the world for what the Israeli's are doing. Hateful, abusive people are found in every "developed" society. They are the fringe in most cases, but those who do nothing to stop these atrocities are just as bad.
"Please forgive the Jewish people around the world for what the Israeli's are doing."
That is the most confused and inappropriate and ill-informed statement you could possibly make. It is obvious that the Zionists have tried to convolute the separation between Judaism and Zionist nationalism but just because Zionism is based on an exclusive religious "racist" myth does not mean that those that profess the religion need "forgiveness". They have committed no crime by having a faith and they are not responsible for "what the Israelis are doing", many Jews in Israel and abroad in fact are active in their condemnation of the evils the present Israeli regime have perpetrated against their fellow humans to achieve a political end and some, namely the orthodox and those who know their spotty history even condemn the Zionists in general.
Remember the history of Zionism is parallel and similar in many respects to that of National Socialism having grown out of, or as a reaction to, Austrian and Prussian paramilitary nationalist extremist groups, mostly racist student fraternities. Both nationalist ideas depend on a cultural racist myth, building a mother-land or fatherland for a people, which in fact as Shlomo Sand, professor of history at Tel Aviv University and author pointed out never were a "people".
So, please don't buy the Zionist propaganda and please do not mix up Jews and Zionists. One is a very old religion and the other is a political concept of sudo-racist nationalism.
P, 176.. http://history.tamu.edu/fac...
This is a specious distinction. Zionism will not be stopped in a reasonable way until Jews stop it. Just as Nazis could not be stopped without terrible destruction because Germans did not stop the Nazis so Jews have to take responsibility for their own or the consequence will be terrible destruction in order to stop Zionism. That Zionism is a terrible mark on Judaism is undeniable. Because it is intrinsically unsustainable and consequently short term, Zionism will be stopped and if Jews don't do it soon the collateral damage is going to horrify the entire world.
MidaFo ... it is most certainly NOT specious, in any way... it is in fact the opposite.. a crucial distinction. 'Jews should fix it' ... right ... sure... next time they all get together for the annual 'Jew party' we can demand it of them. Zionism is NOT 'Jewish' ... it's racist blathering. I have, always have had, many friends who are Jewish. Not one of them would adhere to Zionist drooling. WTF are they supposed to do about it? shoot someone? THINK before you post, please.
Thanks for the reply. While I admire your reaction I cannot but point out that Zionists will not listen to anyone but fellow Jews that is if they listen to anyone at all. If international Jewry stood publicly and vociferously against Zionists they would have a remarkable effect. Because of their admirable application to intellectual development and hard work Jews often hold positions of significance and potentially great power in society everywhere. Their disapproval would readily extend to include disinvestment and isolation. This would be the best way; the peaceful way.Yet Jews do not do this while the Zionists openly do their dirty work in the name of Jewry. Why do Jews not stand against Zionists? The only answer must be that Jews as such approve in the vast majority. There are many other indicators to this end.This is shocking! This is intolerable! This displays a terrible weakness of intellect in the Jewish identity. The evidence for this lies openly on the ground in Israel. Israeli Zionists even openly mock those who refuse to see this. While having been educated in a Jewish primary school has made me aware of how right Jews were to distrust others and put a united front onto the huge and healthy disagreements tolerated within their culture the matter has now gone too far; obviously a full circle in fact. The great rel;ion of Judaism is endangered from within. It is now looking increasingly slippery and absurd. YHWH will reject them, turn those who yearn after or tolerate Zionism into a a collective pillar of very smelly and dirty salt.What I write here is very straight forward. If it appears to be thoughtless perhaps it is because some think too much. Thinking too much is always sign of terrible things.
Ha, if people don't like what you write, it's their fault! In the context of world affairs and dire on-going events, no-one can "think too much", good grief. And how in the world can "thinking too much" always be a "sign of terrible things"?!
Debris 54 is right. What do you think a Jew is? Your view is just wrong and impractical. In fact it is "racist" in the anti-Jewish sense, not that Judaism is a race although what Zionism practices is effectively racism. People are born Jewish if their mothers are Jewish according to their custom, whether or not he/she ever practices his or her religion or not but to become Zionist one has to make a decision to do so. Just as someone might be born Christian but has to decide whether or not to become a Freemason or a Republican party member. Do you hold all people baptised responsible for the effect of Freemasons or Republicans on American history. That would be about as ridiculous as what you are suggesting.
And, by the way, there are plenty of Christian Zionists too...
With respect, and appreciative of your discernible distress about the matter, I think you are confusing the issue.So do we all at various times.
Let us try to keep it simple:Zionists are systematically killing and constructing cultural and religious genocide in the name of Judaism. Jews do not object.
If they do, and given the egregious nature of this matter, where is the protest? For years many besides me have been asking this question. It is after all being done by Zionists in the name of Judaism because Israel is defined by Zionists as a Jewish state. Where, again, is the protest? Where I demand!There come a time when expressing revulsion to a friend is not enough; is indeed mealy mouthed cowardice if that is where it stops. Presently it is crystal clear that until Jews put their future on the line about the way Israel is behaving openly in their name they are complicit. Right now the great religion of the Jews, Judaism, looks like a damned religion. No sane man will deny the connection between it and Zionism.Although I am not aggressive, my aim is also not to seek your sympathy. I am accordingly being hard arsed so let me say that Christians, being monotheist and accordingly self conceited , are not my favourite people either. But at least they came out in strength against Apartheid South Africa.There were marches under the auspices of organised Christian religion and unwilling governments were pressured into making highly significant public pronouncements against the Nationalist regime. Without this Apartheid would still be a tool of the USA in support of the new Organisation of African Oppression called Africom.
And then, Zionist Christians are the willing and increasingly insane fools of the Zionist's .
"Where, again, is the protest? Where I demand!"
Humanity cannot be broken down into them and us. Your racist attitude just helps the Zionists.
Thankyou for the links. The accusation of racism is a sad thing.
My experience with Jews in my home city is that the great majority of Jews in my home city do indeed deeply connect their Judaism with Zionism and with the State of Israel. The largest yeshiva in the Jewish neighborhood in my home city flies the Israeli flag prominently over the playground. Israeli flags can sometimes be found flying in other places as well. When there is a "crisis" in Israel i.e. Israel has once again, invaded a neighboring people's land, Banners calling for support of Israel go up on a goodly number of the synagogues.
It was so maddening that I ended up writing my thoughts in support of the Palestinians (with wide-tip magic marker, by dark of night) on a number of the banners some years ago - including one at the largest synagogue in town, founded by the Heinz family. To their credit, they replaced it with a less controversial "save Darfur" banner - an over emphasized pet cause of many Jewish organizations, for some reason.
That is my experience here, maybe Jews in other cities are different.
It cannot be denied that many Jews buy the racial supremacist propaganda of Zionism, just as many white people in the Old South bought into the propaganda of white supremacy, and decent Jews have a duty to repudiate Zionism vocally, just as decent white people have a duty openly to denounce white supremacy. But Zionism, which is really only a rehash of the racist and militarist doctrines of Nazism, is Jewish only in the sense that Hitler's Aryan supremacism was Aryan. That the racist propaganda has been effective still does not make it true.
You're right. I guess you mean pseudo when you type sudo.
You guess right, thanks for the spell check.
People need to wake up!Gaza and the West Bank are open air concentration camps, these are the new Warsaw Ghetto.Auschwitz is still in operation it has been renamed Gaza, and the students have outdid the master.
Dachau, is more appropriate. There were gas chambers were in that camp, but they were not used. Didn't make the place any less evil though, instead of killing with gas, Dachau killed with disease, beatings, starvation and bullets.
Get a grip shit-for-brains. Have you no sense of moral equivalency? You and all others who try to analogize the treatment of Gazans or West Bank Arabs with that of the Jews in Nazi Germany lose credibility. It would be laughable if it were not so ignorant, tragic, and insulting.
What a powerful video. Pity that it, or anything like it, will never be seen on mainstream media in the U.S.
Barbaric as the treatment meted out to Palestinians, including minors is, it is comforting to know there are at least some Israelis with the character to come forward and confront the truth about the occupation.
Cold comfort, though. As a Jew and an American, I am totally appalled (not surprised but once again, appalled). How can we stop this? Certainly our leaders aren't trying.
The opportunity missed by Israel after the second world war can be measured by all the budgets all the world knows today that support war. Whatever the supposed, collective religious claims of that nation may be, they like so many others, are visibly set against peace. War is the proof.
Irrespective of our collective failures, the opportunity to end war today must now be measured by the social implications of shifting out of and away from what may be the greatest weight of failed, misguided financial foolishness humanity has ever known. You won’t stop spending what you spend on war. All human suffering today is the price humanity pays for your commitment to war. The budget is the proof.
Rectifying this insane imbalance stands as the greatest challenge human intelligence has ever been faced with. Honesty and commitment to the obvious alternative is the straight-line solution.
How many need to be strapped into a movie theater seat Clockwork Orange style to be compelled to come to understand the real implications of their own complicity. How do we take collective responsibility for the real Task of shifting away from our collective commitment to the priority of warring ways of competition.
War or Peace has risen to the place of a final, fortunately single, wide-scale, potentially world-wide policy choice. It is the measure of your investments that prevents the essential honesty necessary to the only agenda that matters in our world today. Everything else we speak about by any means in public is convenient avoidance resting either in denial or resignation all of which is the childish, irresponsible, myopic immaturity of fear.
Any adult among us who will not stand for the essential, single, polite demand for a worldwide agenda founding a final peace has reason to educate him- or herself about the real details of the financial reality currently committed to weaponry and ALL the skins it infects.
All of every other thing any of us pay any attention to whatsoever is entirely irrelevant. One nation, any nation, ready to stand for Peace could accomplish the necessary Task, and today none will.
While this is an excellent post with fine intentions it is rather like any of mine ie it is imperfect. But then in this hurly burly of a discussion mistakes do not matter. Meaning is intention and detailed criticism regarded as finite dismissal is simply nit picking.
My (radical) comment on it is that nation (see last para) has very little to do with what we are talking about, other than the fact that it lies at the heart of the problem. This paradox is useful in that it points out that the solution contains the need to eradicate nation as it has come to be understood in terms of identity and origin in our modern world. The greatest example of this is the American nation, which to some extent has to be seen as inspired by Israel. Both are exceptionalist.America, like Israel, has to be done away with. The USA has some potential but not while US people think of themselves as American.
You are absolutely right when you say " the need to eradicate nation as it has come to be understood in terms of identity and origin in our modern world"
Nationality and/or religion are the two (mainly) accidents of birth used by the faithless and immoral sociopaths to lead most of the sheeple of the earth to their own hell and demise, usually to the benefit of banker or war profiteer.
Nationality and religion alows them to carve up humanity into "us" and "them". And you are right that this is the essence of the Zionist phenomenon as it was with the Nazis.
Ibo notes, rightly, that the money made in perpetuating war assures that it cannot end. Unfortunately, among the most potent weapons of war is what now is called "public relations." It is as scientific a field as nuclear physics, and the like a thermonuclear weapon, public relations is available only to those with the obscenely vast wealth to buy it. Nationality and religion are mere instruments, like bullets, with which our international plutocracy control us. With their media monopoly, the plutocracy control virtually all the weapons that can fire those bullets.
History will show that when Truman gave Palestinian land to the Jews from Germany, the Arab leaders told him that there would be no peace thereafter. There has been no peace. The Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust. The Diaspora happened 2,000 years ago. Under what law did Truman have the right to give land in the Middle East to German Jews? Prior to that, German Jews were migrating peacefully to Palestine and buying land to farm. They were neighbors of the local Palestinians. That worked. The Wahrburg banking family in NYC donated money to plant trees and build schools. They told Truman not to expropriate land from the Palestinians, not to create a State of Israel. We now have a permanent state of war; we now have a permanent occupation of Palestinian land. And, to add to this awfulness, Israel is encouraging Russian Jews to come to Israel for "free" land. Settlers on the West Bank are expropriating more land from Palestinian pastoral farmers. When does it stop? When does the United States Congress stop supporting this land grab?
When Arabs stop denying Israel the right to exist. There is a state of war. Make no mistake. I used to be a land for peace guy. Then I learned about Isalm . Red the charter of Hamas and the party of god . It all well and good to condemn Israilites for being reluctant to trade land for peace , byut the most benevolent arabs want the right of return . Thats a non started. Sorry Charlie. Go pound fucking sand until you concede Israel may exist.As far as an original land grab, hey things change! Go ask the Spanish, the british, the French , the Mexicans, the native indigenous people. THINGS CHANGE. Boundaries change. Perhaps if the Arabs had not sided with the Germans during WWI and II, they might have had a better result.
Dear Mr. Darman:
Islam, not Isalm Read, not Red Israelites, not Israilites but, not byut "that's a non-starter" sorry, Charlie, but whatever Germany did has nothing to do with what Israel is now doing. Are the settlers from Russia and Brooklyn paying for the land they are taking in West Jerusalem? Not. Are the settlers from Russia and Brooklyn fleeing from the Holocaust? Not. When the rest of the world is looking at Israel as an aggressor, and no longer a victim, it is time to pay attention. By the way, trading land for peace is not the issue - proper payment for land taken is an issue. Israel has been extending its boundaries at the expense of its neighbors for decades.
A gentle reminder that the term "holocaust" includes 5 million "other religions" and 20 millon members of the USSR who were kiiled by death squads, forced into concentration camps, or if USSR soldiers, who were captured in their tens of thousands, were simply not fed in camps surrounded by barbed wire and machine guns where they died of starvation and disease.
The term "holocaust" seems first to have crept into common parlance around the late 1960s, solely in reference only to Hitler's persecution of the Jews, and now it has become the "Holocaust". A useful propaganda tool, as are Israeli claims of anti-semitism if one is critical of Israeli policy and overseas Jewish support for such policies.
What the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians is of no difference at all to what went on in places such as Warsaw under the Nazis. It is ethnocide and genocide and like such evils practiced by many other groups of people, it is criminal activity.
And the Berlin and Ramallah walls; we risked nuclear war over one and have done nothing over the other. What of that hypocrisy?
''He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.'' ~ Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil (1886)
If you are implying that the Zionists fought against the Nazis and thereby by some osmotic transfer absorbed their traits, I think you should study your history a bit better. This is the kind of lie that is readily circulated by Zionist who would like to portray themselves in the light of a David being persecuted by a Nazi Goliath whereas in fact up till 1939 there was considerable cooperation between the Nazis and the Zionists in Germany and in many cases outright collaboration.
Although Nazis produced an Aryan myth of superiority and laws to support a racist view of German nationalism in 1935 accordingly, the Zionists in fact applauded the “racial” divide which they saw as reinforcing their own identity myth. Instead of being upset by these laws, the head of the German Jewish Community and Head of Germany's Zionist Movement, Mr Georg Kareski gave an interview to the SS magazine 'ANGRIFF' printed on the 23 December 1935 in which he said he had been trying for years to find a method to keep the two races (Germans & Jews) separate, and he considered the race laws from the 15th Sept 1935 supported the Jewish desires. He implied that the Jews had been struggling against assimilation for nearly 2000 years and they needed such laws to support them in their struggle.
While gaining cooperation with Hitler on the one side in founding of a Eretz Israel in Palestine, some 60% of all capital invested in the settler economy in Palestine between 1933 and 1939 came from Nazi Germany, by June 1937, the largest exporter to Palestine was Germany and that was despite, simultaneously, “The worldwide boycott against Germany in 1933 and the later all-out declaration of war against Germany initiated by the Zionist leaders and the World Jewish Congress (apparently) enraged Hitler so that he threatened to destroy the Jews…” (Rabbi Schwartz, New York Times, Sept. 30, 1997) And so persecution by the Nazis was assured and the uprooting was started. The selection process was, one might say, also a “collaborative venture”. Chaim Weizmann, the Zionist leader who had arranged the Balfour Declaration and was to become the first president of Israel, made this Zionist policy very explicit: "The hopes of Europe's six million Jews are centred on emigration. I was asked: 'Can you bring six million Jews to Palestine?' I replied, 'No.' ... From the depths of the tragedy I want to save ... young people [for Palestine]. The old ones will pass. They willbear their fate or they will not. They are dust, economic and moral dust in a cruel world. ... Only the branch of the young shall survive. They have to accept it."[Chaim Weizmann reporting to the Zionist Congress in 1937 on his testimony before the Peel Commission in London, July 1937. Cited in Yahya, p. 55.]
A closer study of history might show you that those who have caused most suffering to the Jews are in fact the Zionists, the real wolf in sheep's clothing, that grew up in the same litter as the other wolf we know.
That's a lot of words you're trying to put into my mouth based solely upon you're interpretation of what you think I meant. But no thank you, I'm full of my own words and my own meanings.
Have a nice life. ;-)
Sorry, if you thought otherwise. I was not interpreting your words nor putting any in your mouth. You just quoted Nietzche's and the interpretation there is clear so here are a few more of his quotes appropriate to the Zionist myths :
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
and especially I like:"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
''If you are implying that the Zionists fought against the Nazis and thereby by some osmotic transfer absorbed their traits, I think you should study your history a bit better.''
You might have asked:
''Are implying that the Zionists fought against the Nazis and thereby by some osmotic transfer absorbed their traits?''
You assume I don't know ''history.'' I believe that it is you who could benefit by expanding your world view and understanding. But that's just my opinion.
As I said earlier, have a nice life. ;-)
"If you are implying......"Either you "are" or you "are not" implying...... then....
It is an interrogatory statement to which the simple answer is "No, I am not implying that" if that is the case.
I am always welcoming anything that can expand my world view and understanding. But I wonder if you knew the facts about perhaps the most ardent Zionists collaborator with the German SS was the agent Feivel Polkes of the Hagannah (the forerunner of the IDF) the Zionist underground military organization in British-run Palestine.
Polkes availed his services to gather information for Germany that did not conflict with his own political ends. Among other things, he would vigorously support German foreign policy interests in the Middle East and use his influence to secure sources of oil for the German Reich … “if German foreign currency regulations for Jews emigrating to Palestine would be relaxed”.
Polkes wanted the Nazis to use their powers of persuasion to ensure that German refugees only went to Palestine. The Gestapo were happy to do everything in those days to promote emigration, particularly to Palestine. SS files show that in return for information from Polkes on Jewish attempts to kill Hitler, “pressure will be exerted on the Reichsvertretung der Juden in Deutschland to oblige Jews who emigrate from Germany to go exclusively to Palestine, and not to other countries.” Not only were the Zionists trying to close the doors of Britain and the USA to Jewish refugees: they were pressing the Nazis not to allow anyone to leave unless it was for Palestine.
Where you aware of these historical facts of Zionist collaboration with the Nazis or do you see it as just another part of my limited world view and understanding?
Even if I have not opened your eyes or your eyes were already wide open, perhaps someone reading this will be just a little more aware of the historical deceptions that have been purveyed by Zionist propaganda because of our exchanges here. Thank you for that opportunity.
Indeed... THIS is the most salient point that can be made. The 'Jesus' character in the bible stories said the same thing with the (usually misunderstood) 'turn the other cheek' comment
This violence and hatred toward Palestinians is no more an accident or "fringe behavior" than is any other racist actions we see around the globe or in our own cities. This is drummed into soldiers of the US as they are sent into the Middle East and Afghanistan. They call Iraqis and Afghani's Haji's and towel heads. This is what the army wants , so they can prosecute this war and commit the atrocities necessary to make way for their dominance of energy sources around the globe.for the benefiit of Exxon-Mobil and the finance bankers of Wall Street. the Israeli's are no different in their racism and fascist control of occupied territories than other larger imperialists. They all represent the sickness of capitalism and the need for a global communist movement to lead our class to bring about revolutionary change and rule of the 99%, the working class. We nned revolutionary youth to be organized to go into the military and win the alliegiance of working class GI's , so when we are strong enough we can turn the guns around and bring down the imperialist empires. Then and only then can we hope to establish an egalitarian world without racism, war, exploitatrion or money. Then we can produce and distribute to all based on neednot profit.
So kind of the IDF to provide documentary evidence of their crimes against humanity...
It always appalls me the evils people do to each other in the name of religion.
Shit stains like these don't need religion to carry out such evil.
"Humanity is a virus with shoes." - Bill hicks
Proving religion is a man made item with about as much "Spirituality" and real "Love" as a turd in a tidal wave.
'turd in a tidal wave' ... alright.. I'm stealing that line ! :-) (the imagery is stupendous...)
A turd in a tidal wave fertilises life somewhere.
Israel-----a blight unto the world.
One could substitute [any armed forces] abusing and terrorizing [any subject civilian population] during [any occupation in any part of the world during any time period].
I appreciate this apparently truthful news piece and just want to expand it to the bigger picture of what horrid things we humans historically and currently are, unfortunately, capable of. It's not a pretty picture but is one we have to acknowledge before we can move forward to eventually become what we could and should be.
It may be as simple as teaching how to handle anger and frustration as well as the rewards of caring and helping others. Of course, the PTB do the opposite, guiding anger and frustration of whatever group against some other group, keeping the horrid injustice going on and on and on. If there is an 'enemy', it's those who lie and encourage or condone inhumane behavior.
Move forward to where? In other words what do we leave behind? This means what is the root of this evil? And forget about handling it. History shows it is never handled but only handles. The real question is what causes the anger?This answer will reveal why we do not care for and help others. With respect, your post allows us to discuss this matter for ever and we do not have the time; never have had the time, for while we discuss it, it kills. Any who want to discuss how we should teach the murderer his deed is bad while we sit and watch him murder is nuts.Evil wants us to discuss and wring our hands.The enemy is the group who are all for discussion in the face of evil. They are lying and encouraging and condoning. The good man sees the source of evil and fences it off by putting himself between the evil ones and their victims. If you are US'n you should follow Rachel Corrie and put yourself between your American government and the people it is presently killing. If US people do not they are effectively doing the killing. They do not.
We humans are what we are in part because of those who think history (for those who even know it) is determinative, a kind of pre-ordained 'fate'. But we do have choices and have, in fact, progressed, albeit very slowly. It's my view that humans, if we survive, will become both more rational and more 'spiritual'; we will be less selfish, greedy, warlike, and generally immature.
I like to discuss anger, murder, etc., and I'm not 'bad'. If you feel that discussion of such things is 'evil', then don't do it. If you feel that personal sacrifice to the point of your very life is the way to go, then go do that. Castigating others for not doing what you yourself are evidently not doing is hypocritical at the very least. Cheers.
This is totaling wrong what is being done to these people. Another form of genocide.