A lot of these supplements appear to help you fall asleep fast. That's not the problem I have, nor is staying asleep. Instead, I'd like to spend a lot more time in deep sleep and REM sleep. Are these supplements going to help significantly with that? (will anything affordable help with it?) Thanks a bunch.

Melatonin will definitely help you dream. With it, my dream life is far more interesting than my waking life.

melatonin made my heart race like a chattering chipmunk for about 10 hours. the next afternoon, after shaking & spinning all night, i took it back to the vitamin store. the counter woman said that happens to a small percent of people {although, nobody was decent enough to give me that info when i bought it}.

you shouldve done research beforehand.

5-htp - I take it at bedtime now for sleep aid and more so for migraine prevention. I also take magnesium and potassium at bedtime. I have been weaning myself off of Nortriptyline(migraine preventative) and trying to avoid taking sumatriptan(when migraines strike). My doctor has told me that those two drugs help the uptake and regulation of serotonin so I am wondering if you would still recommend L-tryptophan over 5-htp in the case of migraine prevention and as a replacement for one or both of those prescriptions? I get 95% of my migraines while I'm sleeping and wake up 3-4 hours before I should from the pain.

Last note is that Ive been on the BP diet since November and have lost over 40lbs. I am 15 lbs lighter than I was in HS as a 3-sport athlete, helped family and friends lose weight and feel better, and my migraines HAVE improved since upgrading my health last fall.

Wow...I've never heard anyone with my same migraine symptoms...I also get mine 95% of the time, while I'm sleeping. I take Sumatriptan/Imitrex and it works really well, but I keep thinking that I'm missing something, biologically, because of the pattern of my migraines...I just purchased the 5-HTP (just got it today) and was excited to start taking it. I was also prescribed the Nortriptyline to prevent the middle of the night migraines, but I'm not sure it really helped...I'm off of that now....I don't see a response yet about your question....but am so amazed that you have the exact same thing I do!!!! Never heard of it before!

GHB can cause dependence, if you take it every night. It induces rem sleep for 4 hours then wakes you up. you have to take more to fall back asleep. the more you take the more rebound you have,,,, this can be a problem if abused. It is not normal sleep, and you can never feel optimal from it's use. However if you must sleep and can't otherwise fall asleep it's the most safe and effective sleep aid on the planet. If you mix it with alcohol you can die. Also if you double the effective dose you can get very ill, and puke, pass out and drown in your own vomit. If you don't already know everything about GHB it's beyond your grasp and just forget about it. Hope that helps. gabapentin is a gaba derivative that is prescription. If you have trouble falling asleep once a week it can help calm your mind while trying to fall asleep, with less dangerous drug like dependence. It's easily gotten by prescription. GHB is so regulated you might risk imprisonment if you try and acquire it.

GHB does not cause dependence. It normalizes sleep cycles (sleep architecture). It allowed me to live a normal life. GHB is so safe it was used in childbirth in Europe. Right, don't drink and take it. Just like drinking and Valium is a bad combination. You do not pass out - this is not like alcohol. You go into a deep sleep, not a coma. Many people were told otherwise and the urban myth began - and ER physicians had no idea what they were seeing. If you really care about the facts find a copy of this book: https://www.amazon.com/GHB-...

{janet} that's frightening!

I've used and abused GHB, recreationally and for sleep. My experience is:
- It's great when you have to sleep and you can't without taking anything. You take a high enough dose on an empty stomach and you will fall asleep within a half hour. With a full stomach you will need more and it will take longer
- It's best use as a sleep aid is when you only have 3-4 hours of sleep ahead. You will wake up feeling more refreshed than if you had slept the same amount without it.
- A normal 7-8 hours night of good sleep is better than taking GHB to sleep, then taking another dose when you wake up 4 hours later (cause you will, because of rebound)
- It is lightly addictive, but very little. For example, if you use it to sleep every night, you will have trouble falling asleep and have less quality sleep for at least one night when you stop, more if you've been going on for a long time. If you use multiple doses in a row a few times a week, your sleep quality will suffer. After a period of abuse, it took 2 weeks before I had a real good night of sleep.
- If you use it non-stop for a while, you will get physically addicted, similarly to alcohol. Which means awful withdrawals, and possibility of delirium tremens and death.
- Over time, tolerance develops to the recreational effects, and eventually it's no more fun and just makes you want to sleep. A long enough break will return some of the effects, but it will never be the same as the first times. That would be caused by receptor down-regulation.
- As long as you don't mix it with other drugs, it's pretty safe. I once accidentally took a double-sleeping-dose (which means, twice as much as the dose that I can't stay awake on), and I was fine.
- Mixing with other downers like alcohol, benzos or opiates is very dangerous and should never be done.
- Mixing with other drugs can be surprising. For example, it seems I tend to do crazy shit when I take it with MDMA, and then not remember anything.
- Used responsibly and intelligently, I think GHB is the safest and most enjoyable drug for partying
- Nothing is better at stopping a bad psychedelic trip. I once had a major emotional wreck on magic mushrooms, and I took a sleeping dose to stop it and 20 minutes later I was regretting having taken so much since I was feeling so good and happy and didn't want to fall asleep.
- Sex is AMAZING on GHB.

Bottom line is, I don't recommend using GHB regularly as a sleep aid, but in some specific situations (can't fall asleep otherwise, or only 4 hours of sleep ahead), it can be very useful. It can also be a lot of fun. It's also useful for bodybuilder, but many bodybuilder who use it for that purpose end up physically addicted and that is bad.

Here you have scare tactics... Please quote your sources...

Also, I've read elsewhere that GABA supplements dont cross the blood-brain barrier. What's your take on that?

GABA isn't proven to work, and it doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier. What does work are GABA precursors-picamilon and phenibut (used by Soviet astronauts).

GABA works better than all of the above for me. There may not be a science paper that say's it work, but enough people are getting effects from it. Like Hoosy said I feel drowsy from it the next day and it's certainly not placebo effect.

phenibut is poison. it has major withdrawl symptoms and doesn't help sleep, not to mention hangover. GABA works for people who take it, but it doesn't get the user high like phenibut.

Complete nonsense ... Read up real user experiences on Redit ... Only idiots abusing Phenibut have issues with this miracle substance

If you get effects from GABA it means you have a leaky brain and need to go to doctor ASAP. (GABA only crosses into the brain if your barrier is not working right)

Supposedly PharmGABA gets over that hump, and I can tell you that it must get through to my BBB. If I take a whole pill, I'm groggy the next day and a friend reported the same. So this past week, I am taking only 1/2 of the pill and man, I can't begin to tell you how clear my thinking is the next day. Taurine works with the GABA receptors and I just bought it last night to try.

You are 100% correct... Only folks abusing these nootropics have issues. Those types would have issues with anything they can take. None are for people with addictive personalities..

The BBB is SO 1995. There are neuroreceptors and neurotransmitters in the gut. That's where GABA works.

LOL...this is hilarious:

- GABA doesn't work
- GABA doesn't cross the blood brain barrier
- GABA works for me!
- GABA is better taken as the precursor
- the precursor is poisonous!

lol...truly hilarious...talk about chasing the tail!

There is just too much stuff on this site. I am overwhelmed.

I AGREE, NOLAN. taking it one article @ a time doesn't work, eddie. it's still too much info, some contradicting, & too many "cures" to figure it out. some of us cannot understand which to TAKE, COMBINE, AVOID. do we take all of these @ once? if not, how do we decide which person knows what he is talking about?! i'd hate to have another opposite reaction to something that these folks swear works the best, as i had happen with melatonin, for pete's sake. i've seen tweakers on 'cops' acting the way i did ~ wth! this is overwhelming, & impossible to decipher. >:^(

hey dandilion, that's exactly what I thought in the past....had a severe burnout and still working on it (still can't go to work after 2,5 years, sometimes I can't even take a walk every day) and was completely overwhelmed by all these informations and "if you have these symptoms you should take xyz" "this helps 95% of the people" "you must take this if you have xyz symptom" etc etc etc (I know that you know what I mean). I've invested over 25.000€ (!!! sold almost everything I have) during this time on private docs, meds and supplements (last one took a huge part) - I could make significant improvements but not even close to what I'd like it to be after that huge investment.

You see, in simple cases, these articles/podcasts/tipps and the basics may or may not be helpful - in more complicated cases I'd ALWAYS encourage people to work with somebody who really knows his/her stuff (CHEK Practitioners, FDN or alike), who can really get to the root cause and also work on things you may or may not overlook (nutrition, daily schedule, psychological issues, past experiences, environment etc). In the end, a ton of these informations in the web are just (very) little pieces of the whole puzzle, you can overlook (and not measure) a TON of things (problems with certain foods/combinations, supplement timing/combination/dosage/quality,....) and what I found most overlooked - a plan (where to start, when to take certain steps like gut healing/killing, detox, energy improvement, symptom relief etc, how long to do certain things, how to measure improvement,...).

And always remember - there is NO one-size-fits-all - not with supplements, not with food (macronutrients, food choice,..), not with daily routines and so on - you gotta find what helps YOU and what YOUR body tells you that he needs (sometimes my body wants more protein, sometimes more carbs, sometimes carrots, sometimes more meat, sometimes no meat, sometimes fish etc). I feel like so many people take stuff and eat things and do things they don't really like and feel good with, but there's so much praise by popular ppl in the field and scientific proof.... Maybe a step back would help quite some people because the stress due to all this information can be very impactful on the healing process - and sometimes psychological issues are really overlooked because there may be that "quick fix" (supplements or alike) right around the corner.

Hope this helps...I personally found information by Paul Chek very helpful - he's not the "take-this-pill-guy" and rarely suggests a brand or so, and he really thinks in a holistic way. All the best on your journey!

Take it one article at a time.

Dave, can you post something that tells people you don't answer all questions so they don't waste their time? I asked a question about 3 months ago and have yet to see a reply. Is there a time limit from when the original article is written? If there is, no problem, I guess, but I'd just like to know so I don't have to keep checking back.

Tried the GABA and had anxiety filled nightmares and the was horribly " hung over" until the middle of the day. I even tried taking the GABA around 8 pm to try and prevent the hangover.. Is there a way around this? I have the same problem with taking melatonin . Is this common with GABA? I would really like to get off of the ambien.
In all fairness , I don't have a very active GI system . The bulletproof coffee has helped tremendously with GI motility but not sure about the absorption. Any thoughts are appreciated !

I had the same results with GABA and melatonin and 5-HTP.. my health practitioner said that there are people who because of differing brain chemistry respond with awful nightmares to melatonin. I can only guess it is the same for the others as that was my experience.

Was told by my Naturopath to take Vitamin B-1 with the Melatonin if you're having wild dreams. It does work!

Consider just taking GABA during the day to keep you calm, and then it wears off by bed time, but your calm mind carries on into sleeping that night.

are you taking the GABA with Ambien? That might be the problem.

Same problem here with the hangover effect ... take half.

It is in your head in my opinion. It's probally trying to come over the ambien having the affect. If your trying to get off ambien. I would start with low dose melatonin then split the melatonin in half wing off then take gabba. Melatonin has better affect safer than ambien then gabba is safest supplement. Try it I bet it works!

stop drinking coffee first, if you can't sleep. also try tryptophan before going to bed. and choline+tyrosine in the morning. all 3 are amino acids. letting go of your thoughts should help you fall asleep

Melatonin has never affected me that good. Sometimes gives me nightmares.

5-HTP would actually give me an energy boost.

Then I discovered L-Tryptophan and magnesium. I haven't had insomnia ever since. I reset myself with the L-Tryptophan and magnesium and now I just take magnesium powder every night.

I do the same thing and it does nothing for me.

What brand of L-Tryptophan do you recommend? What type of Magnesium do you take?

I take Natural Calm Natural Vitality magnesium. Works for me. Source Naturals L-Tryptophan is a good brand, I felt the most effects with it. NOW Foods is another brand that works, but not as strong as Source Naturals.

Exactly how much magnesium and L-Trypt do u take?

Varies. Used to take a lot, then I didn't use too much, now I don't take anything at all other than fish oil and digestive supplements for my stomach.

I've been trying to figure out why tryptophan makes me sleepy...but 5 htp makes me feel like im on adderall....sounds like you have the same experience TJ Nelson

Probably something to do with the conversion process. Tryptophan has to be converted into 5-HTP first. The body will convert some of the tryptophan into niacin if you need niacin. I used to actually take tryptophan with niacin sometimes because it potentiated the tryptophan.

I'm intrigued "Holy Basil" (aka "tulsi") is not on your list. It has worked for myself and a fellow engineer when nothing else did.

Thanks for the recommendation. I've read about Hu basil but not needed it

Why is L-tryptophan better than 5 HTP? I thought 5 HTP was absorbed better.

l-tryptophan is a natural amino acid you get in the diet. your body converts it to 5-htp and serotonin and melatonin as needed (inside the brain I think). 5-htp is not something normally in the diet, and it being in your stomach means you have it cycling throughout your system that could be potentially harmful to your body outside your brain. 5-htp is also an MAO-Inhibitor which can be dangerous. Stick with natural tryptophan.

I've tried almost everything on the list. I agree with you about most melatonin supplements being too strong, although what you were mentioning was weaker than I would go with personally. I think 1-3 mg is ok (Total, not per capsule which some are). And not for long term use either. Need to take breaks. I think combos can be the best, and the key is getting the exact blend in the perfect ratios. Most companies are way off the mark and put far too much of one thing at the expense of another. Another key is ensuring that the ingredients are top quality, which is also rare. When you mention valerian for example, it's important to not only say "valerian", but also include the % of the active ingredient "valerinic acid", because that number really defines the strength.

A friend of mine from university, who is a professional naturopath, told me SleepX from 88Herbs is coming to market soon. The ratios have been developed with naturopaths from Asia and North America. They look to be in the right ratios and are from excellent sources.

http://88herbs.com/product/...

For people who want to try ingredients one by one, my favorite (in no particular order) are:

Tryptophan
Magnesium (Citrate or Bisglycinate)
Melatonin (3mg MAX)
L Theanine

what about glycine? A Japannese study showed 3gr improved sleep without side effects...

T.

Glysine is abundant in his "collogen protein" he mentions, otherwise known as gelatin. Pretty cheap stuff. Good to take before bed, raises HGH while sleeping.