Oh, the irony. What does Apple make again? *Drops mic*.

I'm free, old-school 1980 3D graduate from Ravensboune!

I agree. Now can you please supply more USB ports on the backs of your iMacs?

https://www.quora.com/What-...

If you don't do different for different sake then why are you ditching the standard headphone jack?http://action.sumofus.org/a...

Although I have a design orientation, as well as experience as a designer/builder, I teach a variety of graduate and undergraduate subjects in real estate development, finance, and investing.

Over the years I have encouraged my students, most of whom are finance majors or work in the real estate sector, to draw. There are connections made between the hand and the brain that don't happen when working on a computer. I also believe that thinking through drawing improves students' problem-solving capabilities.

One example of my integration of drawing into my graduate and undergraduate curricula is a course I taught at Johns Hopkins University's real estate program called "Urban Regeneration," in which, as their first assignment for the course, students were required to map their environment by hand, based on their recollections and/or observations. It was remarkable how well students who did not have a design are arts background performed when challenged to map their built environment.

I'm also a firm believer in the cognitive benefits of taking notes by hand, rather than on a laptop or tablet. This is a practice I follow to this day. It's reassuring to see someone of Jonathan Ive's caliber as a designer, taking on the issue of improving design education.

One would imagine that someone with such strong views, right as they most definitely are, would design a better battery case for an iPhone. Or a watch, for that matter. Or an iPhone without those ugly antenna bands, a slippery texture for holding (incidentally the number of falling accidents have seen a spike since the iPhone 6 form factor), and oh yes, that ugly protruding camera ring. Or how about a better Leica camera edition when you're given the opportunity? That was such a disappointment!

It's clear that Jonathan Ive, despite being one of the best industrial designers out there, is a tad overrated, without his mentor Steve Jobs to refine and polish his design thinking.

Since the passing of Steve Jobs, I have noticed, every single design output from Jonathan Ive (including the iPod, the iPad, the iPhone 5C cases, the iPad Pro's smart keyboard, iOS, and even the magic trackpad, keyboard) and the watch charging dock etc., has suffered visibly, missing that crucial and quintessentially 'Apple' edge (and I mean this in a systemic design sense, not just the art or aesthetics).

To give credit, the Apple Pencil is where Ive made up some lost ground (if we ignore how ridiculous it looks when it's charging), but then that is a relatively simple product when compared with the rest of the Apple product lineup.

Every design professor should learn from this speech. There is a large gap between design education and market needs, and it is a common barrier around the world.

In recent research I published to the Design Management Review, (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.... focusing on the design barriers in the Middle East, design education is one of the major problems to fuel the market with required talents.

However, the problem can be observed when reviewing the design education in North America and Europe. Most of the design degrees aren't designed to reflect the product process, but to a add number of – sometimes useless– courses without a strategic plan for the outcome of the sum of these courses.

I think he's right. As a design student I'm discovering that now. But also to me school is just a hoop to jump through, not the end itself. Also, Apple design has gone downhill in a hand basket. He should look within for the change he wants to see.

3D design on Apple products is indeed tragic.

Designing and re-innovating has to be planned before the time in order to face the copy!

YES! Blame the interns!

What we forgot to mention is that quite often teachers are not successful designers and get into schools to have some money. That position is miserable.

He's right. First thing people should be taught is how to steal someone else's ideas and then sue them afterwards. How to patent shapes. He should be perfect at teaching both of those.

I am not sure I agree with Ive, not that I have any particular experience of the design world, but I am currently applying for university and all those I am considering place emphasis on learning by doing and have great facilities.

Machining the iphone case from solid aluminium is not as outlandish as Ive pretends.

The technique is called "machining from the solid" or sculpture milling, and it is used when casting or welding parts together doesn't make a robust enough part for a given weight. It was used extensively in the manufacture of the Concorde aircraft in the 1960s: http://www.concordesst.com/...

Another page describing the technique:
http://www.moto.brembo.com/...

I am curious to know exactly why Ive thinks it is "conceptually ridiculous". It sounds like he has some designerly preconceptions about economy of means, which is obviously an aesthetic, not a technical criterion...

Hello, this is a fantastic response to Jonathan Ive's comments about the "tragedy" that design education has turned into, by Jason Morris – formerly on the Industrial Design Society of America board, and current director of the industrial design program at Western Washington University in Bellingham, WA.

http://idsandbox.blogspot.c...

Ive definitely has a point when talking about the physical aspects of design education.

However, I had a much greater respect for Ive before reading this interview. He says nothing new other than what Rams envisioned half a century ago. At least Rams considers Ive's "inspiration" flattering (although it took Rams much more than eight years to deliver what Ive sells as his philosophy).

I bought my first Mac recently after many years on PCs. It has a crystal clear screen, good speakers and is physically very well made. No other than that. Great entertainment gadget for American teens but not really capable as a professional design tool.

Meanwhile, what's happening at the coal face? Let's engage with young children instead of criticising from afar.

So, you don't like to cave into marketing and make it look different just so you can market to new users, huh? Is that why you have like 30 different iPod Nano Colours?

If that's the case why don't Apple open a design school geared for these kind of design issues realities? Apple is in a position to attain it and it will benefit them in the future.

Move to Switzerland and enjoy one of the best educational system in the world. All Swiss colleges have great workshops and students have to make their own prototypes by hand. Look up FHNW, ZHDK and of course ECAL.

It's a good thing design is not just producing workable concepts for a computer manufacturer and seller.

Even industrial design is a much broader field than that and should not be constrained or judged by certain manufacturers requests for people being able to design computer gear for the fancy advertisement campaigns.

On the school bit, I think the schools vary as much as people do. I have looked at some really great (and also bad) work coming out of schools. In other words, does one really know about the quality of design education unless one steps (out of the computer box and) into the vast number of fields that design actually serves?

Can one judge all these schools without stepping into them all and systematically evaluating them from a wide perspective than computer or APP making, and what serves this giant advertisement campaign that Apple is?

I wouldn't want schools to be job training for Apple stuffs, as much as I like my iMac. Maybe not everyone is interested in that relatively narrow sector of design in general.

And people applying for jobs at Apple may not be the types that spank mud with a piece of wood when designing. And a lot of design education is hands-on from what I have seen. Though it depends on the design field.

Ive slams companies and designers who produce "careless products". It's very rich coming from Apple that design and produce products that persuade/force you to think you need its products through clever advertising, but I guess you find that in any field.

For sure its designs are generally slick but 90% of it you don't see. I feel Apple are starting to produce unnecessary products, which is just a crime.

The iPad and now the watch – what next, how many more products can we carry around all performing similar functions? Sign of the times of a saturated market.

I m a student in the design sector. These are so expensive to deal with. I wish I can do something to make it easier and cheaper to have models, at least in a small scale. And I really appreciate Ive having involvement.

Hope you see this. Learn how to use clay. You can make just about anything that doesn't involve much movement. For example, you can create a phone/tablet and see how different designs feel. I was self-taught in this regard, and have made many small-scale mock-ups of things like couches, to lamps and laptops.

Not at MIAD (Milwaukee Institute of Art & Design), Ive! Maybe you should be hiring its design graduates?

There was a time when the company itself thought their workers were the tools of the trade. The advantage being that they would be trained in the manner specifically needed to that particular company.

Formal education was to teach people how to critically "think" and "analyse". This is now considered fiscally inadvisable as is actually paying people a reasonable salary to retain them once trained. Crap in crap out...

The interview at the Design Museum was a very cosy event and only very few questions from Sudjic really tickled Ive.

It was rather a chat between friends than an informative insight into the changes of Ive's life in the last 25 years. I wonder how much it was controlled by Apple's policy and how much Ive is allowed to talk freely about things.

1) I like Apple's products and I'm happy things are well designed and led by design and not marketing and only money-driven.

2) Re. stealing ideas and design: Apple does it too, see the Mondaine clock http://www.cnet.com/uk/news...
and Braun's calculator interface. (The last was pointed out by Sudjic and Ive just nodded and said “Yes”).

3) Please be also a role model and pay your taxes as any normal business.

4) I don't know why American companies always aim to grow so massively until they go bust? Why can't they remain a reasonable size and keep doing only a few but very good products? If you don’t listen to marketing people, stop listening to greedy stakeholders too.

Jonathan Ives iterates the importance of 'craft.' You can draw (or produce through any means) as many pretty pictures as you want; if it doesn't work in the real world, you might as well just stick to graphic novels. If you are a maker, you have to actually make something.

Design is life with all its complexities. If you cut all else and concentrate only on computer presentations, you are missing the BIG point of life participation!

You then live and communicate in a virtual world, with virtual media. Computers are unique tools, but that's what they should be dealt with only as tools like any other.

The most important point missed here, before starting to throw stones at one another in despair, is that the people with real skills are going or gone from the horizon of the skills spectrum, as the priority for academic selection for many years now has been only high diplomas and degrees.

So we need to reeducate the trainers!

The hands on educational value has moved from front stage, as big institutions are heavily funded to staff big auditoriums with hundreds of students, who are educated only through lectures.

Now, Richard Sennet's book the 'Craftsman' is so relevant! It makes us realise that it is our values that are the problem, and the rest can be fixed if we identify the problem.

What a bunch of corporate tripe. This design wisdom is coming from someone who turned OSX and IOS into "Fisher-Price" operating systems, and great products into "me-too" consumer products.

If Jobs was still here, Apple would still be an innovator, rather than crow about the same old products with incremental improvements. Apple: we expect better from you.

Having graduated from Newcastle Polytechnic alongside Jonathan, I heartily agree that our design education system lacks manufacturability relevance. What ever happened to those early exploratory sketches to help define the product’s framework alongside the basic understanding of how "things are made"? From experience, our schools should encourage creativity by providing children with the fundamental hands-on drawing skills required. More time given to exploration of ideas and less energy on superfluous presentation to meet curriculum demands. There seems to be a neglect of the design process leading to the finished product.

I originally wrote this brief response to another question on LinkedIn. It was related to the importance of a particular technology to understanding problem solving.

"In my own field of design education, problem solving is seen as a natural development of human ability, and with strategy, experience and an understanding of the world around us– how it works, what it is made up of and how they interact – allied with ability to articulate and communicate, a capacity to use skills learned. These life skills cannot be separated, and therein lies a problem. We have tried to see the world as components and parts in a complex inter-related system and conveniently created discrete specialisms. What is missing is the connective tissue and understanding of interrelationships and how to imagine. Problem solving is a key connective here. It isn't something to do on a Friday afternoon, but it is a part of everything we do.

Sadly, design education is lost in schools – except in the way a rare few proponents bring it to life.
Without the open minds and willingness of people to tackle new areas of learning with the confidence to make the odd mistake along the way, we will continue to lack individuals with the ability to become early thinkers.

Bring back time to experience the form and function, the aesthetic, the interrelationship and appropriateness of "things" – touch, tactile, manipulation and reshaping of materials.

There is no technology answer, because I fear we really do not understand the question. Unfortunately, education has a fundamental problem. It is always trying to answer a question that will be asked 5-25 years from now. That is why schools need to return to fundamental cross cutting skills and a preparation for the unknown.”

www.johnarudkin.net

While many Universities do not have adequate workshops to cover the needs of undergrad 3D designers there are a few that do. In an increasingly difficult to support area students are paying the cost of their education and getting less and less hands on making.

Design Schools such as The Cass (LMU) still have excellent workshops that are always under pressure to take more students and as a consequence there is a constant need to renew and update facilities and train staff.

I agree that to be a really effective designer you must understand making and there is no way better than making something yourself to understand how material works and how different materials can work in unison.
So please can Apple take a teensy bit out of their massive profit and feed it back to where Jonathan has recognised it should go... into design schools to build up workshops and the taught experience, directly helping Apple's future staff gain the skills needed to be really excellent designers. As Jonathan can so rightly see Apple profits do depend on it.

Everyone else come to an open day at The Cass (LMU) and see what we offer. At the edge of the City, opposite The Whitechapel Art Gallery and with Brick Lane round the corner it's a great day out!

So, does this mean that those with real three-dimensional design and things like print production are getting good paying jobs? Is this an offer? Or just another idiot who needs to see his name on the internet? And for f**king crying out loud, smile asshole. At least you are fully employed.

"It's not copying, it's theft. They stole our time, time we could have had with our families. I actually feel quite strongly about it. It's funny – I was talking to somebody and they said do you think when somebody copies what you do it's flattering? No."

Funny that's how Job built the whole Apple company. He never had an original thought, just stole someone else's idea, file off the serial number, drag it into the Apple distortion zone and feed it to the Apple Jacks as a new idea that only Apple had. Apple has no integrity, they will lie, cheat and steal whenever they can... just ask the guys that own Sapphire glass.

I am currently studying for a degree in design and innovation with the open university and I can tell you that making is a large part of it. Prototype and prototype more, when a idea or problem is framed and the solution is a product the first thing I do is make physical models before I even look at 3D rendering. Take the glass cup for example, for that I would use clay, paper and other materials to create a rough prototype which allows me to explore new shapes, handle positions, thermal quality's etc. This gives me a sense of what materials I may need to achieve the desired design and fulfil needs and wants, only then will I start 3D rendering. So maybe there is a change on the horizon for design education.

Jony Ive mao ang matarung, ang atong design edukasyon mao ang makalilisang.

Not sure where he is getting his info from, if he came to my school (SCAD) he would see students in the shop all the time. Almost all of my projects involve building a prototype. Apple never even has openings for product design internships.

This is a brilliant, timely discussion. Thanks, Jony Ive, for speaking about this topic so dear to so many of us.

Too much design pedagogy has muddled digital tool with design talent and making. Each year we see hundreds of shite portfolios from digital tool masters who have no idea how to make anything.

We try to enact our credo about making design that matters: California College of the Arts joined forces with the California Academy of Sciences on November 13 for a massive expression of design making -- an event called NightLife. More than 50 CCA design students and more than a dozen design faculty -- industrial design, furniture, illustration, graphic, interaction design made dozens of analogue and digital interactions -- all made with their hands from an array of materials.

Thousands of people engaged with our designs. We make things every hour of every day at CCA. We have amazing shops. We continue to revise our curriculum towards makers. We are not alone in the world.

For instance, our good friend Kevin Walker and his team at the RCA in London are doing the same. Apple, Mr. Ive: you are welcome to come and make something with us.

Dieter Rams was a REAL designer. You have copied his style into your Apple jewellery.

It’s ridiculous of Dezeen to try and link Jony Ive's views on design education and the closing of Falmouth University’s Contemporary Crafts course.

Craft courses focus upon the production of bespoke objects - they aren't training the next generation of industrial designers, so linking them seems rather trivial.

What we need are industrial design courses that teach students to consider how things are made, not just as a surface-deep CAD render, but a manufactured product.

This includes understanding manufacturing process and the importance of the engineering, the economics that drives product development, alongside important
aspects such as aesthetics and usability that doesn’t come from the computer screen.

To gain this knowledge we need a prototyping process that physically engages the student (or designer), by providing quality feedback that aids problem solving and in turn helps shape great products.

Digital manufacturing is a core part of this, so to dismiss computer technology is not only irresponsible, it’s just a bit stupid.

We need to change our design education so that, amongst other things, students are taught about processes and materials from the beginning. This means not encouraging a design process that relies too heavily on often subjective and limited primary research, followed by sketching and rendering, but experimenting in workshops, visiting manufacturers and obsessing over details on real products.

If he is so concerned about the 'cheapness' of computers in design schools, maybe Apple should be donating software and computers as part of their investment in the next generations of product designers.

Universities and technical colleges are not made of money, and it is a difficult and long process to get funds allocated to upgrades. But as others have commented, schools are changing already, but technology changes so fast it is difficult for an older system to change as quickly.

People want to work on a creative field because it's cool, not because they are talented or have a calling to it.

What an absolute hypocrite. Maybe if Jony Ive could convince Apple to pay their fair share of tax in the UK instead of using schemes to avoid it, then schools in the UK would be better resourced to provide better lessons.

I use Apple products (Mac, iPhone and iPad) and have done for years. However, the irresponsible way they act in not paying their way (along with other companies) makes me angry. It's because of tax cheats that this country and others are forcing austerity upon us.

Safe to say he's the Kanye West of Apple? He knows what he's doing, but I also like how he's never around for the cameras, or has too much to say apart from the promotional videos at each conference.

Great write-up of the evening.

I asked Jonathan what his thoughts were on the thinking of the likes of Sir Ken Robinson who has said in a TED talk watched by 28 million people, that “we have an education system that teaches creativity out of children” and Seth Godin who has said that it “teaches them to sit still in factories and
offices.”

He didn’t answer the question directly but did say that “the biggest contribution that designers can make” is to go into schools to help children make things, not just to get a mark but to be able to take something home, “how fantastic is that?”

He then added he would be spending the next two days up at Northumbria University, not to give presentations but to work with the students on their projects.

This was just one day in a crucial week for Britain's Creativity Crisis - in a week that the Education Secretary Nicky Morgan was quoted as saying that "The arts hold young people back" and the Crafts Council launched a manifesto for making.

More on this, how you can help inspire a generation and what we asked Jonny to do for us in this article here: http://bit.ly/scoukccrisis

I have to agree with Mr Ive here. I studied at De Montfort in Leicester where the focus was on real-world product design. It's a skill that many companies are crying out for, they want products that can be designed for today's market using today's manufacturing techniques at affordable prices.

Yes it is right that we should be looking towards the markets of tomorrow and the manufacturing techniques of tomorrow, but not in the impractical way that many universities teach the idea.

The simple fact of the matter is to understand your design you need to be physically able to touch it and feel it. Be able to see where split lines would or could go, if the proportions for internal components are correct. Not spin it around on your computer screen and hope for the best.

Design for manufacture is the key skill, not who can CAD-up the most curved or complex shape.

I am a senior lecturer on a BA Design program and I couldn't agree with Ives more (as far as design education is concerned).

We have to embed the physical world in students hands before giving them virtual tools. We have to remember that computers are just that.

The problem is we are constantly fighting budget cuts. Nothing new there I guess, but it is getting a little wearing.

Apple's management could learn a thing or two from Ive's remarks on integrity:

http://www.independent.co.u...