You make some very good points, however this model relies on ownership, upholds the 'notion' that certain metals are "precious" whereas [logically] others are not. Indeed, though it is not explored, it was a clash of (Eastern) silver system and gold systems that saw the modern banker's order evolve. Highest bidder pricing mechanisms have ultimately determined the collapse of fiscal standards underpinned by weights and measures and other accountability mechanisms. Surplus is not the issue. Asset values and relative accountability is the issue.

If I need to pay someone to move a gold bar 1000 times, how is the "moving charge" offset (ultimately)? If that is determined a "share" of the unit's value, then by only moving it 10 times, I have increased its value (which is determined by "highest bidder" and not some arbitrary body).

I cannot find my post [specifically] on this topic, so here is another that touches on it:

https://ozziethinker.wordpr...

Best
OT

I never thought I would see the day when so-called "libertarians" would apologize for a thoroughly militarized society based on external warfare and slavery. The Romans were almost impossibly cruel. The depiction of the Romans in this article is not historical.

But he writes about Rome under the Republic. Then came the dictators and it became serious.

It wasn't all bad;
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

"Freedom has always been far more of an attractive slogan than a way of life that all people pursued." This is a profound statement and most true in today's culture and economy. I own two businesses and one excellent wealth creation asset - spoken of by Robery Kiyosaki (https://www.youtube.com/wat... It is much easier to find people willing to be my empoyees (statutory slaves) whoes surplus production is my property to build my dreams, than it is to find people who are willing to think outside the box, take risks, and build personal wealth and freedom for themselves. At least once a year I sit down with all of my empolyees individually and show them how I make money off of their work. I reveal to them the dollar for dollar exchange and how I own their surplus production. They are all amazed. Then I show them how they could unhook from employee mentality and build their own dreams. 95% of them thank me for bieng honest and forthright with them. They trust me more than ever and become even better producers. A small percentage get pissed and demand a raise -accusing me of taking advantage of them (workers of the work unite). To them I say "go start you own bunsiness then, quit bitchng." Shortly there after they exit my employee and, usually, I couldn't be happier. But, even a smaller percentage engage with me to create something different for themselves and their family. To them I allow special liberties during what would otherwise be their employment time, to build a dynamic future for themsevles while still earning an income from me. When they reach personal financial and time freedom I throw them a party and show them to the door. They are friends for life. So it is true "Freedom has always been far more of an attractive slogan than a way of life that all people pursued." People are what they choose to be for the most part - notwithstanding notable exceptions.

Perhaps the rejection of freedom is genetic, perhaps it is learned (indoctrination), or it could be a combination. Is the % of libertarians, (around 2-3%) about the same as the % who choose economic freedom? Are they connected? These questions I have asked myself for decades. Since I was born a skeptic, questioning the Santa myth at 4, rejecting all superstition at 8, I tend to believe in genetics. No one told me to question. It was in my nature. I identify with the scientific method and objective philosophy. I reject obedience. I accept natural law, the eternal laws of change (physics). I accept my mortality. It's logical. I identified with Science Officer Spock as a Trekkie. I thought he was more human than the other humans. I consider myself as an outsider in an irrational society.

I choose freedom from the beginning, not because it was easy or to fit in (conformists/slaves are the norm), but I could not bear to live any other way. I would rather be dead. Those who chose subjugation to authority, self-enslavement, I find abhorrent, but I respect their right to live as they chose, so long as they accept my right to live as I chose. Most don't. And there's the problem. That belief by them that I must live their way, the slave or master way, I reject. I resist being forced, e.g., taxation. I want to live and let live.

The link you posted is a plug for a network marketing scheme. It is the furthest thing from "free market" that wasn't created by the government. These organizations prey on people by exploiting their personal relationships, locking them into buying "only company products" and price fixing. If you can't recruit enough distributors you never make any real money. It's predatory and false. Real producers actually produce something; like my in law who produces injection molded shampoo bottle caps and makes good money. Network marketing and MLM schemes are bogus.

On the contrary, network marketing is the fastest growing segment of entrepreneurship in the world. I don't know where you get your information!ation but it couldn't be more wrong in the general. Certainly there are good and bad, just like lawyers and doctors, Judging by the amount of emotion you promulgate I'm guessing you've tried and failed the concep. That happens a lot. Just like any other business. The site I posted was from Robert Kiyosaki's book The Business of the 21st century. You will of course excuse me if I chose to listen to him rather than you Jess. Thanks for your opinion though.

Negative. "Road to Rich Dad" is a well documented sham that cons people into spending from hundreds to thousands of dollars on seminars. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You are 100% incorrect. And it is not well documented with those whose documentation matters. Check Apple, Bank of America Home Depot all, andany more, are partnered with Amway Global. You know nothing compared to these. So your opinion is irrelevant because it's already 15 billion dollar enterprise. Drop it or get smart. Either way I have no more time for foolishness.

Oh Amway, the perennial favorite. I didn't mention it out of kindness. Have fun drawing circles and attending your pep-rallies. BTW just because a company partners with someone to move a product does not constitute a endorsement of either partners. You are correct, enough foolishness.

Interesting...So in the halcyon days of the Republic, when everybody but the Aristocrats were slaves, all surpluses went to the slave owners. The slaves received only what they "needed" according to their masters.

But now, in modern times, it's the reverse: Only the producers are slaves and they get to keep any surpluses after paying for the "needs" of the non-producers, according to the non-producers.

huh?

Slaves were not producers and slave owners / Aristocrats were not "entitled"?

Nothing, apart from terminology has changed.

Just "try" to "keep" any of your surplus should predators with guns of state take an interest.

No truer words were ever spoken. Just try and keep your surplus should predators with guns of the state take an interest. Satan lives at the IRS.

That was tongue-in-cheek using the terminology of the essay.

But still, when slaves were called slaves they did produce (who else did, besides supposedly their owners alongside?, according to Rosenberg) and they were "paid" in terms of basic needs and freedoms but not money.

Those who produce today aren't called slaves any more but the same rationals apply to serving that role as slaves must have thought back then. ("Well it's better than starving," "the best things in life are free," "even if I'm getting a raw deal it's better than nothing," "what choice do I have?". etc.) The difference is that today's slaves/producers get paid their surplus in money (Gross income minus taxes) whereas the non-producers get mostly non-monetary benefits (power to direct plunder - politicians), specific entitlements (welfare recipients), etc.

It's not a perfect analogy, and yes only the terminology has changed, but I do think the modern version is better because there is more wiggle room.

We are still "slaves" They just replace the chains by taxes

I might presume in the next installment we will get a run down on how imperial Rome mixed alloys into currency to create junk-gold and silver by "fiat" creating an inflationary cycle that eventually tore the empire apart? Sorry for the run on sentence.

Off Topic: How 'bout helping keep Dmitry Orlov's ship afloat, so he can continue assisting in sinking the ship of state?:

https://life.indiegogo.com/...

Full disclosure: yep, I donated

Bill, I am unfamiliar with Dmitry Orlov's work. Where may I learn more about him? I'll donate just to keep them living on a boat - that's just too cool.

Search "dmitry orlov stages of collapse"

Dmitry has experiences with living is former USSR and, the west. And has much insight regarding the collapse of the two civilizations, from which Russia at least has accepted the epiphany, sorta, while west remains in "strategic denial":)

Bottom line, IMHO: Dmitry is much more valuable writing for us, than toiling to save his boat.

PR: "There were then – as there are now – many humans who would gladly trade their freedom for a position of entitlement. If they feel they will be guaranteed a basic sustenance, be treated with a modicum of compassion, and have some promise of protection from abuse, they accept. Freedom has always been far more of an attractive slogan than a way of life that all people pursued."

So, the "entitled" commission plunderers to provide entitlements from "excessive production" of the productive (not entitled)?

Sounds like a "plan", at least until the seed corn and wealth of civilization is frittered away and the productive conclude: pointless to produce more than you can defend:

http://www.nazisociopaths.o...

What next? Don't worry, not long to wait, or, read some history to find the inevitable result of "rule of law" being rationalized away and forcefully violated by "predators on the bench":

http://www.nazisociopaths.o...