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Schmeep • 3 years ago

This article is proof that crime is surging in some pockets, like the NYPD brass.

mauispiderweb • 3 years ago

It's like 1973 all over again.

The best... • 3 years ago

What happen during that time?

JohnBrownForPresident • 3 years ago

Calm down.

RobNYC • 3 years ago

Yes released Tales From Topographic Oceans. It was just way too out there as an album. But eventually they got back on track.

90% Beard, 10% Man • 3 years ago

After producing the prog rock magnum opus Close to the Edge, it's understandable that Jon Anderson would try to push the limit. Although it did not hit the same sales figures as Close to the Edge, Tales From Topographic Oceans was commercially successful and outsold the well-received (and personal favorite of mine) live album Yessongs, which immediately proceeded Tales.

I would argue that, after Tales, only Relayer lives up to the promise of the band's early albums.

And if you think getting "back on track" involved the reformed Yes with Trevor Rabin, well, I hope life isn't tough on you for utterly lacking taste and class.

Guest • 3 years ago
90% Beard, 10% Man • 3 years ago

The Rabin "Yes" is an entirely different band than the Jon Anderson Yes.

david massum • 3 years ago

But Tales IS filled with a lot of rehashed YES cliches, which is the real problem. Had it been a single album of the strongest parts, it would be a masterpiece. But there's so much filler on Tales. The band was treading water in a lot of spots.

stevethewelder • 3 years ago

That's more than a bit off topic. I'm guessing this is more of a Dark Side of the Moon issue. Besides Tales From Topographic Oceans is phenomenal. Relayer was as back on track as they ever got

unbelizeable • 3 years ago

A crime against humanity - this song was only #4 on the top 100 billboard.


ANGRYGOD11 • 3 years ago

The real crime would be the crappy remake.

mauispiderweb • 3 years ago

That was Serpico time - https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

Jack13477 • 3 years ago

I taught at a school upstate that had Serpico as a commencement speaker in the 1990s. He was a gas. Very funny, irreverent and kind of loopy. The title of his commencement could have been "You Have to Respect the Grape!" It was an appeal to parents to introduce their children to wine at the dinner table at a young age, like Vincenzo and Maria Serpico did, so that kids would learn to "respect the grape" and not binge drink.

All in all, pretty sound advice coming from a man who took a bullet to the head. And certainly none of the adults were going to challenge Frank Serpico, a certified American hero, on the propriety of his chosen theme.

A commencement speech loads better than the terrible, condescending piece-o'-crap "This is Water."

Serpico turned water into wine: R-E-S-P-E-C-T the Grape!

Guest • 3 years ago
JohnBrownForPresident • 3 years ago

Rank and file are nuttin but good people amiirite

Guest • 3 years ago
JohnBrownForPresident • 3 years ago

Or "lets be cops"? fuck that movie and everyone involved in it.

cmykevin • 3 years ago

Brooklyn 99 is proof the NYPD ain't that bad.

RB • 3 years ago

Police sure do love acronyms and initialisms.

cmykevin • 3 years ago

The entire civil service sector. Makes them feel important. My brother went through EMS and FDNY and I can't listen to him talk about work.

Davie Beausoleil • 3 years ago

It surely can't be worse than the military guys and I'm not calling you Shirley.

Guest • 3 years ago

It couldn't go much higher than Ray Kelly, could it? In charge of anti-terrorism and in charge of terrorism of minorities, he was answerable to no one.

david massum • 3 years ago

Actually, you should be able to sue Mayor Bloomberg personally, because with great power comes great responsibility. His job was literally to supervise Kelly's actions. ANYTHING illegal done by the NYPD is the mayor's liability. "The buck stops here." That's the sole reason we put someone "in charge", remember?

That's how it looks on the flow charts. But in real life Bloomberg couldn't handle Kelly at all.

david massum • 3 years ago

Nah, bloomberg even said many times that his best quality as mayor was delineating tasks to others. It's why we had the most ANTI-bike NYPD ever (even stealing thousands of bikes by cutting locks outside critical mass events) and the most PRO-bike DOT ever. Same as Nazi Germany: the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. (I might remind you all that Nazi Germany also destroyed loads of documents when their enemies were closing in.)

Kelly COULD do whatever he wanted, but if you think it wasn't the 3-time Republican Mayor Billionaire calling his shots, you are wrong. Kelly is not nearly as dumb as he plays on tv.

That's why he said in 2000 that Stop & Frisk was a bad joke, but flip-flopped when the emperor ordered all Giulianisms extended and increased.

david massum • 3 years ago

Yes, Bloomberg didn't actually "run" the city. The man's a notoriously disinterested airhead, like his role model Chancellor Hitler, who couldn't be bothered supervising everything.

But this fact is even more scandalous for Herr Bloomberg.

skypilot • 3 years ago

Municipalities everywhere balance their budgets through quotas, rather than raising taxes or cutting spending. NYPD would have been better just admitting their quota tactics. It's never the lie that gets you, it's the coverup. I doubt we'll see any serious repercussions for Kelly or anyone involved though.

david massum • 3 years ago

Had they admitted their quotas, THAT would've been illegal, and about as big a scandal as scandals get. (It'd be a lot bigger than Spitzer going to hookers or Weiner sexting girls.)

Normally I agree: it's the coverup that's the worst part. But not in this case, except for them destroying evidence!

Mack Argument • 3 years ago

I'm dubious that tickets for most things end up putting the city in the black. Most (non parking) tickets require you to show up in court, which means you're paying court employees for it, and probably paying overtime for the cops testimony.

skypilot • 3 years ago

I think you underestimate how much the city brings in from fines. (city brought in $550 million in 2013 on parking violations alone, $6.2 billion nationally) Here was an interesting take on just how much some municipalities gain from issuing tickets:


more (local)

I could list about 10 more interesting links, research for yourself if you'd like, it's startling how much municipalities bring in through fines/penalties

Mack Argument • 3 years ago

I apparently wasn't clear. I was discussing the tickets most often written by NYPD under 'broken windows' like open container tickets, which require a court appearance. Parking tickets, which are primarily handed out by traffic enforcement agents, not NYPD officers, don't have that same cost sink.

ANGRYGOD11 • 3 years ago

The best evidence fines do work to balance the city budget was the open dismay by public officials when the number of parking tickets issued went down after penalties were raised, leaving less money.
Think about this: Public officials were openly saying less traffic violations is a bad thing.

Mack Argument • 3 years ago

A few things:
1) Parking tickets are a significant revenue stream (around half a billion dollars in 2014), but that's only 10% of the budget for the NYPD, not to mention the court and jail systems.
2) Parking tickets are usually handed out by traffic enforcement agents, not normal officers
3) Parking tickets can be paid without going to court, so the costs of enforcing parking tickets are much lower than that of most offenses that are handed out by NYPD officers, like open container tickets.

ANGRYGOD11 • 3 years ago

Quotas are a way of quantifying results. Last year we arrested 100 for X and this year its going to be 200, so we are doing twice as good, even if the streets are just as unsafe.

Robert Madoo • 3 years ago

Should these allegations prove to be true (both the quotas and the destruction of evidence), these men should go to prison and the NYPD should be overhauled from top to bottom.

This needs to go beyond cleaning house. If the NYPD, at the highest levels, is willing to conduct this type of activity and conspire to cover it up, clearly the system of checks and balances that we have is ineffectual.

This is not the NYPD's city, and it's about time the discussion of their role goes beyond stemming the constant flow of individual abuses and corruption. It is a fundamentally broken, corrupt institution.

It should be disbanded and rebuilt with strong civilian oversight and control.

JohnBrownForPresident • 3 years ago

Your suggestions are inviting, logical, and ethical!

BUT if I w a super-liberal elected on a majority who wanted to reform the NYPD, I'd can do something else.... I'd give them 1300 more cops!

Vignelli Map • 3 years ago

You mean, you would defer--while publicly unhappy about it--to a City Council that desperately pushed for more cops, especially from leaders in minority communities? Because your hypothetical seems to mismatch the reality.

JohnBrownForPresident • 3 years ago

We always fight in the comments don't we ;-)

You assume the best of all possible worlds - 1300 cops used to genuinely help communities in need with the very real material and criminal issues they have.

You assume this based on words from the mayor and the scumbag commissioner. These words from press conferences, filtered through anonymous lazy "tipsters" and then through NYPost articles, are virtually 100% free of facts, and we keep seeing the actual NYPD actions as counter to every single grandiose statement they've made.

I see 1300 cops will be used to only lean further, heavily, on the figurative throats of the population they chokehold daily.

Vignelli Map • 3 years ago

Gotta keep up the fight!

In this case, I wasn't even making a case for the cops--just pointing out that it wasn't like de Blasio fought for them. They were pretty much demanded from the Council, and the optics of refusing new cops aren't too great if there's even the tiniest spike in crime. You and I both know that there's no relation, but I don't think a lot of the city does.

But back to what I said previously--Bratton really can't afford to lie when it comes to the community policing stuff. If he thinks that's the way to stop crime--and history has shown (in the Dinkins policing changes that were unfairly credited to Giuliani when crime dropped) that it works better than a lot of policies--then he's bound to go for it. If crime goes up, that's it. Bratton is only the commissioner, as opposed to somebody more progressive, because de Blasio was wary about looking soft on crime and claims from the right that he doesn't doing enough to stop crime. Bratton's job is to keep crime down, and there's really no incentive for him to lie about a policy change like that. If he doesn't tell the truth and we see crime spike, that's all on him. He believe this is the way to avoid that.

Bk native • 3 years ago

Very good point.

mrf95 • 3 years ago

I don't know why the mayor, council and police commissioner can't figure out what is an adequately sized police force. Other agencies can figure out adequate staff levels and projections for future years. The size of the force peaked at 41k in the late 90's early 00's then declined to its current size at around 34k and overall crime still declined. I know optics matter but will the additional 1300 be used to enforce legimate outstanding warrants or illegimate quotas from precincts? The last thing the city needs is a Dunkin Donuts employment program.

90% Beard, 10% Man • 3 years ago

It would be great if the judge decided the spoliation amounts to contempt and orders a hearing. I'm curious, though, what the plaintiffs ask for an adverse inference and not a default judgment. I mean, an adverse inference could kill the NYPD's defense, but a default judgment would avoid the cost of a trial. Maybe the plaintiffs are hoping for a massive jury award they wouldn't get after a default.

david massum • 3 years ago

Destruction of evidence is a SERIOUS crime.

90% Beard, 10% Man • 3 years ago

Uh, I don't disagree with you.

david massum • 3 years ago

We ALL have phones, no?

We can ALL call up the NY Atty General AND the US Justice Dept and Preet's office and DEMAND ARRESTS.

If enough of us make noise, it'll be like Gay Marriage or legal weed: the impossible will happen in our lifetimes.

Bk native • 3 years ago

Best thought out reply to the topic. I'm not even gonna get started. Thank you for summing it all up beautifully.

Matt • 3 years ago

They should absolutely go to prison. This is a lot more harmful than a the actions of a huge sum of the people they put away because of this.

fbxl5 • 3 years ago

No one believes them, no one.

Government, like religion can not exist if no one believes in it. Without trust, it doesn't exist.