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Agreed completely. I would also hold the press' feet to the fire for not hammering on Obama to keep his original campaign promise of transparency.
Yeah, the 4th estate has abdicated their duty to investigate crimes against the American public. They have thrown away their credibility for access. The government have used the media to sell us on the so-called war on terror, drug war, and other injustices. If not for Snowden and Greenwald we would still be in the dark about the nefarious activities of the NSA and GCHQ.
The only time the press holds anyone to account is when the Republicans are in power. Other than that, it's party time in the lapdog media.
I think it's time to move beyond the Republican/Democrat fault finding and finger pointing and find solutions instead of division. As long as the real Puppet Masters keep us divided along Party lines their is no hope....Use some critical thinking skills, for a change.
Agreed completely, except for the last sentence when you became snarky. You should have ended your statement before that point, it would have been more impactful and would have avoided the language responsible for ideological division.
Thanks. You are correct and I spoke in anger, which adds nothing.
I guess you did not watch the Frontline episode which highlights how the NYT suppressed a story for over a year because Bush said dont publish the NSA story.
Also, if you are educated, you might know that Judith Miller planted many false stories in the NYTs to justify WMDs in Iraq. Remember the Aluminum tubes?
General Haden would claim that he was American, upheld his Constitutional oaths, and was retaliated against. So, might Bush. We should jail Bush, Haden, Gonzalez, and the rest of the Administration and their lawyers. No medals, no more paintings.
Alberto Gonzalez oozes snakiness.
I'd categorize Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush Jr. and Alberto Gonzalez in the same den of snakes.
"General Haden would claim that he was American", I'm sure he would...
Only after he get's legal advise on what the implications of saying that are.
Not sure what would make someone think that the world-wide web would ever be an opportunity for confidentiality: the fragility of security systems lies in the frailty of human intellect. That Gonzalez and Hayden are fall-guys for the matter seems to add more to this story, for the history of the American experience.
I'm having trouble trying to figure out just what it is you think. Gonzalez and Hayden are fall-guys??? You may want to run through the show a second time; this time paying attention to small details like the fact that it isn't just the internet - phone calls are tapped, for example. And yes, I'm being sarcastic. The system has become so bent, so rotten, that even the thought of trusting is considered the height of stupidity. That I can understand - at this point it is. We really have sunk that low. But you seem to be painting a picture that suggests that's as it should be and just fine, thank you very much. What a low standard you hold for human potential.
Absolutely. Don't forget the current criminals as well as the old, they all need to pay for their crimes.
I don't think they should be jailed, I don't want us to turn into the French Revolutions where everyone is severely punished (killed) with each new regime. I can understand why Haden and Bush did what they did, America was attacked and they were fearful of what could follow and felt pressure to do something. What they did started with the best intentions, but grew into a monster. It should have only lasted so long and then shut down. I don't know who's seen Captain America 2, but we defiantly see Hollywood's opinion about the NSA.
Bush reinforced alQaeda's terrorism by compromising our confidentiality to maintain security. Terrorism won.
That's bull. They did it so they could justify ignoring the Constitution and spy on everyone.
They are the American criminals at best.
I also completely agree with most of the comments on this program. I want to thank the filmmakers and those who stood up against the NSA and its surveillance. They are true patriots.
Honorable service? There is no such thing with this corrupt USA. Even the august-body Congress is over run with criminals, child abusers, thieves, wife-abusers, etc. In fact, it is a cesspool of deceit.
The Congress really isn't that exciting. You should relax with the accusations.
My feelings exactly. If I were wealthy, I would send a big anonymous cheque to Drake, since he can't be making much in an Apple store, poor guy.
Frontline continues to far exceed any other TV program in quality. Thank you for journalism of highest order. I hope others in the electronic media business can attempt to copy what you do. Thank you.
Anyone happen to ponder why this programme which "exceeds any other" and gives us "journalism of the highest order" is reporting upon history. They were not leading the charge with the Snowden information and now, given the Tsunami, they have no choice.
Glossy video and a deep-throated narrator does not journalism make.
Hi,
The reason the media (or anyone else for that matter) "report[s] upon history' is that this is much easier and more reliable than reporting on the future! It's kind of hard to pen exactly what's happened in the future before it's happened (unless you're Nostradumbass), because … well, it hasn't happened yet!
And do please inform me of a news program on free tv with higher quality than Frontline (Bill Moyers excluded). I haven't found anything that comes close. And you're right, excellent journalism doesn't rely on "glossy video" and a "deep-throated narrator." It requires good, solid, detailed, objective study, and these are the qualities Frontline consistently displays. But haters gonna hate, huh?
SeeeeeYaaaaaa!
Dogmatica, you point out something that should be underscored - being first or out in front with something this complicated is not news, it is not investigation. It took a great deal of time to discern the basis for Snowden's actions to be understood and for the true extent of Bush,Chaney's and their co-conspirators' illegal acts to be known, organized and presented. Great job, frontline!
Here here
So many exceedingly brave people followed through on their convictions. And so many pusillanimous politicians not paying any price as they lie to the American public and undermine the Constitution. We each need to do what we are able to, to not let this fade away.
Snowden's business card should say "Edward Snowden, Game Changer."
How would we have known that King George, oh, President George broke the law and used the Vice President's lawyer to say that anything he did was legal. What difference is it being a United States Citizen or a Russian Citizen or a Communist China Citizen? None of us can be trusted by our governments.
"None of us can be trusted by our governments."
Which implies that any of us, or even all, might be a threat. The inconvenient "problem" is that in the United States of America, there is something called an "election" in which the "threats" to the standing Executive Branch are entitled by the U.S. Constitution to vote.
When voters are denied full access to the actions of the standing Executive, they are being mislead by omission and denied their right to make an informed decision -- in this case, the NYTimes was bullied, or rather terrorized by the standing Executive Branch, to withhold information from U.S. citizens.
So who were the terrorists here? Who will General Hayden blame for his violation of the U.S. Constitution?
Tone down the hatred, General Hayden is an American first, and always, he's ascended to positions of leadership because he is principled, ethical and moral, not the other way around. Our Intel Agencies were fulfilling the mandate given them by the President and Representatives. If, there is blame to be cast surrounding this issue it does not belong at the feet of the "Spook" they are the instrument, the tool, the action, but they are not the motivation, the push or the policy.. These policies and laws came from the conservative's, the Republican lawmaker's and their President.. The NSA was following order's and as such cannot be the place where you place the blame, because to hold the NSA accountable for the policy, is exactly like holding the military accountable for the War. President's and Congress draw up these plans, then select the instrument they wish to use to implement the policy.. I am shocked that we aren't sharper in our reactions, that we are once again blaming the "Soldier" for the war????????????????? Can anyone say Vietnam..
You're half right...blame the private corporations for the war(s)!
First and foremost, there is no hatred stated or implied here, towards anyone, including Ray Barrier whose comment was the source of my response. That is a misrepresentation.
General Hayden clearly speaks for himself in Part 1 of this two part presentation by Frontline. Ray Barrier's comment, and General Hayden's on the record statements, are the focus.
1 --> US citizens expect to live under the laws of the land.
2 --> US citizens elect their Representatives.
3 --> US civilians are not combatants on the field of war.
4 --> Unidentified -- or identified -- terrorist "threats" do not negate the requirements that the elected representatives, including the Executive Branch of Government, ensure to US citizens the protections afforded by the U.S. Constitution.
It appears from this documentary that General Hayden personally recognized some of these facets, but was obligated by law to comply with his Commander-In-Chief. When he is ordered to "fall on his sword" it is not for the civilian population to protect him from any violation that, as an American sworn to uphold the Constitution, he was sworn to uphold. Unless he was lying to Frontline, it looks like he admitted to his wife that one day the sh*t might hit the fan and that he might be "hung out to dry.". He even consulted with his own attorney on the legality of the order.
When he decided in 2004 to participate in obstructing public dissemination of information that might harm the re-election of his Commander-In-Chief at the expense of the Constitutional Rights of US citizens, that was HIS decision. If he now wants to place that blame at the feet of Bush or Cheney or Addington or Alberto Gonzalez, then he can look to them for his medals.
I can't agree with you regarding the last bit of your comment. Hayden appears to be as culpable, duplicitous and criminal as Cheney, Addington and so on down the line. Being a Viet Nam war vet, I have to scratch my head and wonder what you mean with regards to Hayden. You are saying he is OK because he was only following orders? You are kidding? He admits himself that he knew he was breaking the law.
I am not shocked as you are that America and the American people are capable of great stupidity and inaction when it comes to recognizing where responsibility lies for our countries military and intelligence transgressions. Haydon was no longer a soldier, he was a bureaucrat and a pawn.
In the 60's there was the message from two types of war protest song that I recall as effectivly making a point. Two songs; Dylan's "masters of war" and Buffie St Marie's "Universal Soldier" addressed both forms of villainy when it comes to war. Hayden strikes me as the former.
Keller is a coward, and I think he knows it. Did you see how he shot his gaze to his right, our left, whenever there was a little silence? He truly gives new meaning to the term "yellow journalism".
You're confusing 'American Government' with G.W. Bush and friends.
Remember Florida 2000?
Well, it didn't take EDWARD Effing Snowden to tell us that David Addington had an out of proportion ego, he was reported on by the Washington Post, New York Times, Chicago Tribune, etc... Reporter's informed us through their sources.
No it should be Edward "Benedict Arnold" Snowden.
Do you want the NSA to store all of our emails, phone calls, texts, and internet history, so they can look up anything you've ever said, at any time in the future, for any reason?
I don't.
That is exactly correct. Excellent. It is the mentality of adhering to your in-group opinion. What they think is what you think. Independent thinkers need not apply.
The NSA is allready storing information in a large facility in Utah. As pointed out on the show the NSA is spending billions every year mining and storing info. It is only a matter of time 'till they decide something is illegal and come after you. I think Snowden should be thanked for his bravery and giving up his freedom for what he believes in. Am looking forward for the report tonight on NBC.
That's why the can't and haven't.
There is a solution. I have already implemented it. None of my computers are connected to the Internet and will never be until we have a right to privacy amendment to the constitution. I only use a tablet with nothing on it or a cell phone. Leave it to the government to mess up something with such potential for good.
The right to privacy is already in the Constitution Ray. It's called the 4th Amendment. And if you think they can't or are not tapping your cell phone, then you truly do not understand the power the govt. has to spy on you.
No, it should be Edward "Paul Revere" Snowden! The feds are coming, the feds are coming!!!
You should read up on your history... Per Wikipedia; "he distinguished himself through acts of intelligence and bravery. His actions included the Capture of Fort Ticonderoga in 1775, defensive and delaying tactics despite losing the Battle of Valcour Island on Lake Champlain in 1776, the Battle of Ridgefield, Connecticut (after which he was promoted to major general), operations in relief of the Siege of Fort Stanwix, and key actions during the pivotal Battles of Saratoga in 1777, in which he suffered leg injuries that ended his combat career for several years.
Despite Arnold's successes, he was passed over for promotion by the Continental Congresswhile other officers claimed credit for some of his accomplishments.[3] Adversaries in military and political circles brought charges of corruption or other malfeasance, but most often he was acquitted in formal inquiries. Congress investigated his accounts and found he was indebted to Congress after spending much of his own money on the war effort. Frustrated and bitter at this, as well the alliance with France and failure of Congress to accept Britain's 1778 proposal to grant full self-governance in the colonies, Arnold decided to change sides and opened secret negotiations with the British."
nicely put Ed and hopefully enlightening for some.
Every single
American on tonight’s program who upheld their constitutional oaths and were
retaliated against should receive the Congressional Gold Medal. Furthermore, the next president should pardon
any and all federal employees who were persecuted [and who did not expose
classified information] and Congress should introduce special bills to make
them whole for everything they lost for their honorable service to this
country. I was inspired by these patriots
. . .