New Thistle Theory!

I make light of it, but I've made my views known on patreon. (<3 Meg!)
As a side note, I also don't find aliens and religion mutually exclusive.

Oh yes, given the thought of an infinite God, capable of infinite power, and infinite intelligence... creating just one little podunk world of intelligent life would be.... infinitely BORING for him/them/she/it.... :)

oh and: Great Googley Moogley! What a page!

Infinite love (albeit often hard love) utterly negates such a petty concept as "boredom".

That's a pretty statement, but your logic went by a little fast for me. I am not saying you are wrong, since I always am willing for my reasoning to be challenged. I AM saying that I do not understand your argument. Love, infinite or otherwise, is a decision to be committed to another's well-being. I do not see how this would affect anyone's level of boredom.

Well, I never find anything that I am consciencly loving boring. An infinite mind is never unconscious, so never finds anything It loves boring. At any rate, boredom is more of a physical limitation then anything else, and an Infinite Mind is not bound to the physical, although any LDS who read this might disagree.

I realize this comment is a couple months old, but just to clarify from the perspective of an LDS member, our doctrine teaches that EVERYONE that has ever lived, is currently living, or will in the future live a mortal life will one day regain a physical body upon resurrection. That said, there is a Big Difference between "mortal physical bodies" and "resurrected physical bodies," namely that a resurrected body is perfect, and will never suffer death or pain, unlike mortal bodies. In line with this, we believe that our Heavenly Father has a physical body as well, although in no way does this lessen his Godliness (technically this is part of what defines him as a God according to our doctrines). Of course we also believe, like most other christians, that God has a pure love fore all of his creations, no matter how big or small, and knows them all by name, and I agree whole-heartedly that one cannot find something they have a pure love for boring in any way, shape, or form.

But to get back on topic, from an LDS doctrine perspective, and "Infinite Mind" is not an LDS term (we try to be very precise with words and terms, to make things as clear as possible), but probably best defined as "omniscient." "Omniscience" is a quality that LDS doctrine has attributed to God. LDS doctrine also teaches that God has a resurrected physical body, and that a resurrected physical body is actually a requirement to be defined as a "God." Thus essentially, all "Infinite Minds" will always be housed within a "physical body" from an LDS doctrine perspective, though "housed within" may not be the same as "bound to" depending on your definition of either (as neither of these specific terms are defined within LDS doctrine, see why we try to be precise?) To clarify, we believe God is completely capable of all of the miracles written in the scriptures, and many more things that we could never imagine or fathom, that most christian attribute to a non-physical Entity that exists beyond the universe. We just believe that He does have a physical body and does reside within the universe.

Again, I'm not trying to argue or correct you, Ryan Schneider (for all I know you or anyone else here might be LDS and know all of this already). I just thought I'd try to clarify this for anyone who got curious on that LDS tangent. I could write volumes on the LDS doctrine of this particular topic, but I'm by no means an expert or professor on the topic, I'm just a faithful member that considers herself well-versed in the doctrine. If anyone has any honest question about the LDS church or its doctrine, feel free to ask me. If I don't know the answer, I know where to find it. :)

With that belief system, we would have no knowledge of anything spiritual. To my natural mind, it makes no sense that Christ's Atonement and Crucifixion would take away my sins. How could someone else dying and suffering remove my need to suffer for my mistakes? But with the Holy Ghost testifying to our hearts, we can gain a testimony of the truth of the Gospel. I know that if we will read the Book of Mormon and pray to God to know if it is true, truly desiring to know, the Holy Ghost will testify to us of its truthfulness. I share this because the Gospel has brought a lot of happiness and peace to my life and I want that for you too. You can find the Book of Mormon online at lds.org/scriptures/bofm or order it at mormon.org

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, no need to get nasty over it. That said, if you have an honest question about LDS doctrine I will try to find the answer for you.

Hi. Cool Username.
One of the moderators is a member of the religion you are so passionately spewing hate towards, and who makes this comic for you to enjoy - though I've noticed you haven't bothered to leave a comment since, so it seems you have nothing positive to say even if you wanted to. From your most recent comment history, I notice that you're also Islamophobic. I should have banned you a year ago when you originally made these comments, but alas, they slipped my attention.
I apologize to everyone who had to put up with this person during that time. This individual is now banned.

I lived in Utah for several years and have several LDS relatives, but am Catholic myself. I am well aware of the contradictions. My most sticking point is that your Doctrine is incoherent on what constitutes "Omniscience", or Omnipotence, period. Smith flat out denied the most potent doctrine unique to the established Abrahamic metaphysics, that Namly that there IS ONE WHO IS, and no other, anywhere else in all time and the cosmos. Now, once common definitions are firmly established, any sensible, pagan philosopher, such as a Hindu, will have to conclude that most of his gods are limited beings. The simple fact that there are more then one with self differentiated identities proves they are limited, and therefore not Omniscient; at most they would be Pleniposcient, meaning they know MOST things, but not all. They each keep something to themselves and from each other to sustain their individuality. How is the LDS concept of a "God" any different as an individual? Your gods are just more territorial, unwilling to share worshippers outside and across designated solar system boundaries. The only constant, the one TRULY omnipresent (if inanimate) existence in LDS metaphysics that I have discovered, are individual atoms of physical matter. They were not created from nothing, as Judeo-Christian metaphysics have always proclaimed, nor are they part of a cyclical in and out of existence that most pagan religions have expressed in one form or another. Atoms exist without beginning or end in an atomically static universe, period. Gods can shape them any way they like, but cannot make them.
The evidence that has arisen that contradicts this assertion, Particularly the microwave background radiation, among other things, proves that the Universe is NOT static and has a definitive Beginning, and so do the atoms within. The simple fact that atoms can be split contradicts Smith. That atoms can decay through radioactivity from one type of atom to another, also contradicts the supposed "immutability" of atoms. No, my friend, as I tell all LDS who try to say otherwise, we are not gods "in embryo". Strange and powerful beings that have been mistaken for gods may well exist in weird corners of reality, be they pixies or Asgardians, but in all time space and beyond, there can Be Only ONE. Otherwise "Omni" means nothing at all.

Isn't one of the tenets of Hinduism that all their gods are just different Aspects of One? Their Trimurti even shares some similarities with the concept of the Holy Trinity. The way I understand it, the different gods are just considered different paths of worship, more than individual entities- though they have their own Avatars and...'beings', for lack of a better word.

I've heard it said that one could be a Christian Hindu, as other Hindus would just consider the Christian way of worship another way of worshiping the single God-being.

🤔 Hinduism has roots in both paleo Germanic religion as well as pre Shiba Ethiopian, but it is hard to unravel the two as easily as Sanskrit, which is really a pidgin mix of the two earliest dialects. That kind of relativism was probably invented to reconcile two very different cultures when they decided to mingle after settling down in the virgin jungle together. Hard to say. When the Ethiopians converted to Judaism they largely destroyed most traces of the religion they practiced before Solomon, and Roman historians are dismissively vague about Germanic religion before the Arian Missionaries became popular, apart from some overlap with the Norse Vikings. Those tribes were so regionally diverse, culturally, that it doubly complicates the matter.

Did you post to me by mistake instead of Kaida?

"You People"? I am a Catholic, and always have been. I said I have LDS relatives I have lived around since I was 10, but I was never one of them. My whole statement was a criticism of Smith's assertions that there is no "Creatio Ex Nihilio", and no Ultimate God Of "gods", and that mindless matter is the only eternal existance . It is a heresy that must be countered a fervently as its equal opposite heresy was, Gnosticism.

But what about infinitely unconscious infinite mind?

Then we are just figments in a dream?😱

Even aliens need god.

Or come with their own religions. A fundamental question asked by multiple Christian theologians is "If we found intelligent alien life we could communicate with, have they been saved in the same way humans were saved? Did Jesus die for their sins or do they have their own savior?" I'm sure other Earth religions would have similar questions.

Perhaps not the first questions I'd ask an alien race, but an unavoidable one when you begin comparing societies.

This comic comes to mind: http://www.smbc-comics.com/...

You may have to start even smaller by finding out if they even have a concept of religion at all, souls, and sin prior to introducing the idea of vicarious redemption.

I do enjoy the way C.S. Lewis presented and represented the divine (e.g. Aslan) from the viewpoint of completely fantastic cultures/worlds (at least to the human characters from Earth). He does something similar in his less well known trilogy "That Hideous Strength". Of course the god of Lewis's literature is infinitely more accessible and knowable to the cultures his human protagonists encounter; they (these fantasy cultures) simply accept and assert as unquestionable/undeniable fact the existence of Aslan/god because he is present in a very real way, even if not always approachable.

This is definitely a direction I did not anticipate. Your creature design on this page is gorgeous.

Actually, there were plenty of cultures in Narnia that didn't believe in Aslan, such as the desert folk (I can't remember their names right now). It's just that some of those who believed in Aslan had actually met him or directly knew someone who had, which would be similar to people who lived in Jerusalem at the time when Jesus was on Earth. No denying he's a real person if you've run into the guy in the flesh.

Were you thinking of the Calormenes, who worshiped Tash? (I'll admit, I had to Google their name—I remembered "Tash", but not "Calormenes" XD )

Yes, the Calormenes. And it wasn't just them, but I think also the first Prince Caspian's Uncle's people didn't believe in Aslan either. I REALLY should go reread all that some time.

Yeah, same here. And you're right, the Telmarines (Caspian's original people) also didn't believe in Aslan.

That Hideous Strength was a great read. I especially liked the way Lewis lampoons British academia (and academia in general).

Channeled Swift quite a bit there.
😋

So, I was just about to post, suggesting C. S. Lewis' "Space Trilogy", when I re-read your post and realized you'd already mentioned it. Glad to find someone else who's read it!

Man, that space trilogy was funky. I liked the first one, the second one was pretty good but also kinda weird, and I couldn't really get into the third one, it basically turned into a funky modern-day fantasy novel, but DANG, this man had so many talents.

Now if only Tolkien had done that time travel series like he promised.

There are a lot of higher-ed jokes in That Hideous Strength. I can understand why that wouldn't be for everyone.

Is it just me, or does Lewis draw a lot on E.R. Eddison (The Worm Ourobouros) for the Space Trilogy?

I had almost the exact same reactions to that trilogy.

Wells was too litigious to risk it.

"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us." - Bill Watterson

Of course they would have a different religion, as they being a separate branch of creation would naturally have very different needs,strengths and weaknesses. Ultimately, however, the First Cause must come to their understanding, in their own way, through logical philosophy, revelation, or both.

I find Christanity and respect for women mutually exclusive because of the way women are treated in the bible can you please tell me what about Christanity speaks to you as a woman given that not one of the disciples was a woman that women are able to be raped even in the new testement it isn't spoken against at all.

I've mentioned it on lower posts, but... drum-roll... I'm an atheist. As an atheist I agree with you, but I'm not here to start arguments on things that haven't come up in the comic (and at the moment show no signs of doing so). This is a web-comic, not a political forum. I don't see the need to get started on other aspects of religion that crop up that I do not condone, politically or spiritually. But all of this is my road, not Meg's or anyone else who reads this comic. And no one here should be forcing their brand of religion (or lack there of) on anyone else.

On a more personal note, Meg was feeling self-conscious about it and I'm willing to support her. She isn't trying to convert or politicize anyone. Freckled Jesus himself could have shown up to rescue Brent, and I'd be fine with it. Imho, it would have been REALLY weird, but it's her story. She can march as many saints and sinners through this comic as she wants.

I have already expressed other opinions scattered throughout these posts. I hope you read a few. Perhaps it will answer some of your questions. Meanwhile I'm just gonna be here as your friendly neighborhood atheist, and a sucker for the mystery and absurd theory crafting.

Whatever happened to the school of gentleman skeptics that Bernard Shaw and Shelly founded? These men gave some fantastic debates, none finer then Shaw Versus Chesterton, transcripts and reinacments of are really all believers and unbelievers alike should turn to for guidance in conduct on discussing Faith and Reason. Militant Misothiesim is contrary to reason, misusing simple logic for illogical hate. My dad is a skeptic, but from the old school, and prefers the company of believers over the sneering primadonas that get all the attention these days. He can't stand those shrill creeps. Stephen Fry mentioned how disgusted he has gotten with them, among many others, in his decision to dump Twitter, "defending reason" every bit as irrationally as a Jack Chick fundie.
Bottom line, education has gone down the crapper at some point with all the spoils morons running around who only learn what they want to just when the world has given them the power to learn anything!

i'd just like an explanation on why the writer is a female Christian I can't understand why any woman would be a Christian I find it just I can't fathom it at all it boggles my mind how a woman could worship a god and a religion that treats women so badly.

Maybe this'll help - I'm a female Christian as well, and I can point you to the following list of women who were very important and respected in the Biblical canon:

Deborah - Judge over all of Israel in a time when Judges were essentially the rulers of Israel.
Ruth - Lineage of Jesus, stayed with her mother-in-law to go back to Israel and follow God despite her husband dying and her having no reason to not stay in her pagan homeland. Has a book of the Bible named after her.
Esther - saved the entire Jewish nation from genocide at the risk of her own life; has a book of the Bible named after her.
Rahab - prostitute who helped the Israelite spies in the defeat of Jericho, ended up being in the lineage of Jesus.
Mary - mother of Jesus, told by an angel she was the most blessed of women. Jesus himself told one of his disciples AS HE WAS BEING LED TO HIS DEATH to watch over Mary, that they should treat each other as mother and son. He took care of his earthly mom because he cared about her.
Mary and Martha - sisters of Lazarus, actually called good friends of Jesus in the Gospels. Mentioned several times, usually in positive lights.
The woman who poured perfume on Jesus' feet - Jesus called her action blessed when others rebuked her for it and promised that she would be remembered throughout history for her act. She has, since I'm writing about this now, 2,000 years later.
Mary Magdalene and the other women - first people to find out Jesus had risen from the dead, in a time when women were indeed considered very low in society and it would have actually been rather embarrassing for women (who couldn't even really be witnesses in court) to find out such an important thing first, which says something about how honest and humble the guys who wrote the Biblical accounts were by admitting this.
Lydia - wealthy female dye merchant, good friend of Paul's.
Israel - regularly compared to a woman, a precious daughter, a lover. Yes, there were also poor references when the nation of Israel was betraying or ignoring God, but it's pretty equal in the good and bad references, just as there are good and bad women out there.
The Church - referred to as the Bride of Christ.
The entire book of Song of Solomon - a love poem between a man and his bride who are passionately in love, symbolizing Jesus' love for his people.

And for some helpful perspective, many of the original Jewish laws in the time of Moses that pertain to women were actually there to protect them. In an entire world culture where women were practically possessions, Israelite women were allowed an entire week off each month to relax during their period, they had a test that would prove whether or not a woman had cheated so that the husband couldn't just get tired of her, accuse her of cheating, and divorce her without evidence, and many other laws that actually gave women rights that, in that time, would have been massively unheard of. In context, Israelite women had the best time of probably any women in the world.

One more example based on a popular argument: the part in the New Testament where Paul tells women to keep their heads covered? Was because in that time, women who went around with their heads uncovered were identified as prostitutes. It was less about the head covering and more about a caution that we shouldn't use our freedom in Christ to act in such ways that the world would misunderstand as very sinful. It's wise to be aware of social connotations and to not compromise our witness and make others stumble in their faith simply because we have the freedom to do so.

And I'm sorry, but I must disagree with you on another point you mentioned earlier; I can't recall one time when a woman was raped and it was deemed perfectly okay, and I've read through the Bible two or three (possibly four) times. Please let me know if there is a circumstance you're thinking of, I'd like to look at it so I have a better idea where you're coming from. =)

Those are some of the best examples that I can think of off the top of my head. I hope this helps; in context with history, the Christian faith does not treat women badly. It's society and misguided people that have treated women badly.

(Sorry if I'm filling up the chat! ^^; If anyone needs us to take this elsewhere, I'm sure we can, just let me know. This is all I wanted to throw in there, unless you'd like to discuss it further, Tiffany.)

I really appreciate your response Riverfox (also to add, most of those who physically and financially supported Jesus' early ministry and early followers after his death were woman even if they weren't "apostles") =)

And Tiffany, I'm sorry for whatever you've experienced that's lead you to this place. I hate to think there are people out there representing the faith I love, the faith I feel respected and honored as a woman, in such a way. I'm not out to convert anyone, but sincerely hope we can help mend bridges and past hurts that are clearly out there.

Thanks for that, MW. And Tiffany, I'm praying for you. I know you don't appreciate that but...like MW said, I hope someday you'll see how God truly loves and adores his daughters as much as his sons.

Ditto Riverfox ;) Tiffany, we're not trying to convert you or would we be successful via this medium. But attacking the writers religion as "evil" in her space is not going to be productive either. You obviously feel very strongly about our faith and this might not be the best story for you to follow if it causes such a heated response. I do wish you all the best Tiffany.

Meg - keep on doing your thing. =) (Also, seriously why isn't it Tuesday yet ;) )

A Civil War between tribes broke out over bringing justice to a gang rape victim. That is no disregard for women.

I just honestly cannot fathom a woman following a religion where not a single disciple was female and without a corsponding female diety to the male one. I just can't it's not acceptable to me that not a single writer in the bible, not a single disciple is a woman to me such a religion has no validity because men and wome nare not treated equally in the bible at all.

I also know way too much of the history of what went into the bible and how it was chosen NOT ONE of the men at the council of Nicea was really holy most were politicians who were trying to push their so called vision of Christanity onto others, and the fact that Paul tells women to shut up and listen to their husbands to me invalidates everything else ever said by Paul.

The bible in the old testemaent tells the men to rape women in times of war and take them as sex slaves.

And yet…there are Christian organizations that work themselves to the bone fighting for the freedom of women in sexual slavery. That feel led to do so by a God who loves those women, who hurts for them in their horrible pain caused by humanity’s evil. Testimonies of women liberated from these situations who tell of how God helped them through it and rescued them.

And the followers of Christ who set up housing and care for single mothers, for young girls who made mistakes and whose families cruelly threw them out, who have nowhere else to go and need to know they are loved.

A God who commands in his Word for his followers to care for orphans and widows – women and children who can’t care for themselves and have no one to help them.

Mother Teresa, basically a symbol of love and self-sacrifice helping the poor, gave all credit to God, following where his love led her.

Jesus, speaking to a Samaritan woman, in a time when Jews thought even walking through Samaritan country was abhorrent. She was the first person Jesus told that he was the Savior they’d all been expecting for centuries – even before he declared it to his disciples.

Jesus, who commended the Phoenician women, another non-Jew, for her faith, and healed her daughter of demon-possession. Do you know how few people Jesus straight-up commends for their faith in the New Testament? Very few. Certainly none of the disciples. He spent more time telling them they needed to have more faith.

As for disciples, aside from the twelve apostles, there were many people who followed Jesus, both men and women – known as disciples. In the book of Acts, Chapter 9, Peter goes to bring a woman back to life – a disciple of Jesus.

“In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (in Greek her name is Dorcas); she was always doing good and helping the poor. About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room. Lydda was near Joppa; so when the disciples heard that Peter was in Lydda, they sent two men to him and urged him, “Please come at once!”

Peter went with them, and when he arrived he was taken upstairs to the room. All the widows stood around him, crying and showing him the robes and other clothing that Dorcas had made while she was still with them.

Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, “Tabitha, get up.” She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up. He took her by the hand and helped her to her feet. Then he called for the believers, especially the widows, and presented her to them alive. This became known all over Joppa, and many people believed in the Lord. Peter stayed in Joppa for some time with a tanner named Simon.”

Acts 8: 36-42

God made man and woman to each show different beautiful qualities that first existed IN God. We were not made to be slaves, but partners. And God loves his daughters as much as his sons. God loves every one of the people he has made, and wants so much for them to come back to him so that he can show them how much he loves them.

How much he loves you, Tiffany.

God loves you so, so…so much.

There aren’t adequate words for it. It’s more than most of us can usually comprehend. It’s something we often can’t accept and we get wrong and twist behind half-truths and misconceptions. But it’s really, really true.

I’ll keep praying for you, Tiffany. I hope so badly that you can see that love for you someday and know just how precious and valued you really are.