Much like video games, the issue I find with "fanservice" of this type (i.e. blatant oversexualization) is not that it exists, but that it's in *everything* and not relegated to a poorly lit dusty corner with other prurient materials.

The thing about pandering is that nobody likes it when it's not directed at them, and people who are the most pandered to are generally the least prone to self-examination.

But I basically stopped watching anime entirely a decade ago because of all the fanservice. Less that I'm offended beyond reason by "accidental groping" and the like, and more that this sort of stuff is a clear signpost that "you are not wanted here." Any media for popular consumption where I'm clearly not wanted is not something I will patronize.

The Moe fad drove me away from Anime for a long time. Fanservice of young (sometimes very young female characters) grossed me out

Thankfully I suspect I missed that entirely, as the only "Moe"s I'm familiar with are the Stooge and the bartender on the Simpsons.

But from your description it sounds horrifying.

I think the main issue is that when fanservice is unrelated to the premise of the story you're telling, it's especially galling. Something like "Charlie's Angels" is predicated on "competent, attractive women solving problems" so if the eponymous Angels are attractive (while being dressed appropriately for what they're doing) it's generally going to pass. In anime where the premise a lot of time is something in the neighborhood of "let's save the city from monsters" it's nearly impossible to see how you could make "let's sexualize some young people" central to that premise, without going down a *very* dark path.

Yeah, the worst part of High School of the Dead was the drastic tonal shift between zombie horror/drama and ridiculous fanservice.

I remember that I was interested in HSotD because it was going to show us a zombie apocalipse in a different no-american setting the first episode was very promising and them... literally the amount of gratuitous boobs&ass got in the way on the plot and too over the entery serie killing it

FOR REAL.
A friend and I started watching it separately. About a week later I asked if he had finished it. He said exactly what I was thinking.
"What in the hell is this?"
We both quit after about 2 episodes.

I've only seen the first season of that but you pretty much describes my take on it. I like ambit of fan service but even I roll my eyes when it's obvious they are really going out of their way to get it in.

Damn; phrasing...

Honestly that series took it to such an utterly ridiculous degree that I was convinced the whole thing was some satire comedy. But then it got really boring and I realized, no, it's just a cheap tactic to sell a by-the-numbers zombie story.

I mean, it's kind of interesting how a narrative (horror) and meta (wacky sex comedy) can have such incredibly different tones, but the two never cross so the mix ends up jarring and the individual parts end up boring. Which is a shame because the shot composition and action directing is fantastic when it's not cutting away every 5 seconds to look up someone's skirt or down their blouse.

Same here. For years in fact until Attack on Titan and Free came along and all the oversaturation (to me) of me fanservice of little girls series sort of just petered off as more and more quality series appeared in turn. I mean there are fanservice series around each season but it really is less than it was for the period where I found it was as if every 2nd series was in that style.

It was a fad and it burned it self out. Survival horror is the new fad and that I can deal with

Yeah it's getting a lot bettet just check out this season, a lot of quirky and unique anime not blatantly oversexual and it's been like this fir like 2 or 3 years now, there is certainly and change being made

You are saying Free brought you back because you hated fanservice. Now that is one big double standard full of irony if ive ever seen one.

I was also discussing more in terms of the animation and story quality (though in retrospect AoT is hit or miss I hear now) and the lack of panty-shots of women and little girls, outrageous chest-sized fanservice that had been dominating much of the anime released in the period before 2012, if you had read my comment properly.

Why else watch Free, ive tried it and its just as bad as any other fanservice show just with naked guys instead of girls. If you like that then sure, but don't then go complain about fanservice.

The Moe fad killed my interest in anime for a roughly a decade (with only a rare peek every four years at, like, one specific shojo anime that received good reviews).

But Moe is defined as explicitly non-sexual fanservice. Fully-clothed girls doing nothing but drinking tea is an improvement in the skeeve-factor, in my opinion.

I actually kinda like several "moe" series if only because it's one of the few chances I get for a cast full of female characters, plus I just love pointless, cutesy nonsense with no plot now and then. Some of the shows are also pretty light on fanservice. But knowing the deeper implications beyond the genre just kinda skeeves me out...

This is the third definition of Moe, I've heard. I think we need more definite terms.

The sexualized girls in anime (with some exceptions, like Black Lagoon) are all WAY too young-looking. When's the last time an anime had a main character over the age of 30, anyway?

A number of Satoshi Kon's (RIP) works featured older characters. His work is also some of the best filmmaking ever done, period - not just the best animated filmmaking, and not just the best Japanese animated filmmaking.

The mature cast is one of the reasons why I love Ghost in the Shell so much, too. I'm only 22 but it's grating having to see teenagers solve all the world's problems.

Masaaki Yuasa's Mindgame is another great "anime for people who are sick of anime." Visually super-inventive and unlike any other commercial anime out there, and its characters are adults dealing with adult issues (in an admittedly surreal way).

Yuasa's other work sometimes deals with teens or young adults (Ping Pong, or Tatami Galaxy), but in a way that avoids indulging in adolescent prurience, and that is pretty honest about the strengths and shortcomings of people that age. And his Kaiba is a super-weird sci-fi series where people of indeterminate age inhabit synthetic cartoon bodies that are often very childlike, but their problems are often very adult, existential ones.

Basically, if you're sick of the status quo of anime, Masaaki Yuasa and Satoshi Kon are THE people to look at.

Huge fan of Mindgame here, but haven't seen those other shows, so have made a note to check them out. Thanks for the recommendations!

You can see it in Tokusatsu (Japanese Power Rangers) too. The average age of an actor back from the 70s, 80s and 90s was 25-32. Then sometime around the late 90s they got younger and younger, and the average age for a Japanese Power Ranger is now 16-18. It's ridiculous.

I think the reason that anime characters are usually so young is that then the characters can exist in a liminal state without the problems of adulthood, such as a job, marriage, or taxes.

I read manga more than anime, and manga that is aimed at older men and women usually turns into live action. Here's some titles though, off the top of my head.

Natsuyuki Rendevous - Hazuki (mid 20s) falls for the older flowershop owner Rokka, but has to contend with the spirit of her dead husband, Atsushi, for her affection. Manga untranslated, Anime on Crunchy Roll

Idol Dreams, 31 year old Chikage Deguchi is filled with regrets about her now-boring life, and takes an experimental drug from an ex-school mate that turns her 15, and of course she becomes a 15 year old idol. Manga translated by Viz, no anime yet, but I predict it is very likely

House of Five Leaves - Rōnin Akitsu Masanosuke is a skilled but timid swordsmen, who befriends the charasmatic but troubled Yuki and gets sucked into his criminal gang. Manga translated by Viz, Anime by funimation - on Hulu, Youtube, Crunchyroll

Usagi Drop - 30 year old Daikichi adopts his grandtather's illigitmate child Rin. Manga Translated by Yen Press, Anime on Crunchy Roll, Live action film untranslated

Thank you!

Moe drove me away too. It wasn't until I saw Natsume Yuujinchou that I started testing the animu waters again.

Moe has existed since literally the inception of anime.

I also feel that fanservice gets old real fast. It might be funny the first time Tenchi trips into Ryoko's boobs, but after the millionth time across multiple anime, it's like, "Yeah, it's not funny anymore. This is boring."

It was dull the first time. And Ryoko was disturbing with her hanging around Tenchi from his young age leading to love from the gitgo. Do not want.

The problem is and was the fault of the otaku demographic. They're the ones willing to spend their parents money on all the merchandise - figurines, bodypillows, plushies, videos, every kind of collectible, etc, etc. So more and more studios geared their content toward that demographic, and the whole industry has been on a downward spiral as everyone races to the bottom to produce the cheapest series with the highest fanservice appeal. So yeah, no wonder anime fandoms are populated by the worst kind of men, for whom the only tolerable women are the animated ones that act like pets and infants - that's what they've been spoonfed.

Again and again I hear anime fans defending it, saying it's ALWAYS been like that and that there are still good shows - but this just isn't true. Moe-blobs didn't really begin appearing until after Evangelion (the horrible irony in the creator wanting to critique the appeal of moe characters unintentionally spawned an even bigger demand for it), and this trend HAS deprived us of potentially excellent series, simply because the otaku demand dictates what studios makes. Occasionally something original and intelligent pops up, but we are definitely in the anime dark age. Even leading figures like Hayao Miyazaki have remarked several times that the good times have ended - fanservice has destroyed the industry.

" but this just isn't true"
Yes it has been there for a while, the only reason it isnt talked about it is because it thankfully got filtered out, but look at all series back at the time, it has always been bad.

I dont take Miyzai, ot Anno seriously anymore because of there increasingly nihilistic views on life nowadyas completely disregarding anime artist who have struggles living off the salary of being animators and working terribel hours because of Japan's fucked up work system. They have developed "Get off my lawn" syndrome

"fanservice has destroyed the industry.'
This I cannot agree with fanservice is bad and terrible but it has not destroyed the industry. A Japanese economic recession has hurt it, small population growth has hurt it, draconian work hours have hurt it, fan service has not destroyed in that way.

"Moe-blobs didn't really begin appearing until after Evangelion"
Yeah man Astro Boy was actually made after Evangelion, Tezuka just used a time machine.
"Occasionally something original and intelligent pops up, but we are definitely in the anime dark age"
The industry is better than it's ever been, and that's just ignoring the fanservice. I could mention several good shows aired this year, but I wouldn't be able to do the same with any year from the 20th century.
"Even leading figures like Hayao Miyazaki"
Oh, you mean the self-loathing pedophile? The man who hates otaku but then gets boners from some anime character from his youth? Man, what a leading figure.

It may have "always been there" but that doesn't mean it wasn't stupid at that time too.

>The thing about pandering is that nobody likes it when it's not directed at them,

I dunno, I stopped getting mad at characters made to target Japanese females when I was in high school. You know, like every male Final Fantasy character made since 2001 is designed to appeal to females? It's silly to interpret things targeting people who aren't you as a sign of active hostility.

I hate Twilight, but I'm glad it exists because a lot of other people seem to like it. I also don't care for romantic sub-plots, they aren't for me, but most mainstream movies manage to cram in things that appeal to multiple demographics.

Use female as an adjective, not a noun. This isn't a wildlife documentary.

I did a google news search for "female" and got thousands of mainstream headlines and articles using female as a noun in non-medical or academic contexts. Try it for yourself.

Additionally, wildlife documentaries use the noun "women" fairly often so I'm not sure what that implies.

I think it's that there's a common tendency for Gamergaters, MRAs, and other regressives to refer to women as "females" as a means of dehumanizing them. It's so common that it's become something of a red flag now. So calling it out becomes a kneejerk reaction. Of course, you don't seem like a bad person from what I can see. I'm just clearing this up because I know where Inkshooter is coming from.
Also, I'm sure you don't mind when creators make things that aren't targeted at you. But the reason anime is having this problem in the first place is because you're kinda the exception to the rule. Otaku can be vicious.

I bet you love Westworld and GoT.

Haven't seen one minute of either. I enjoyed the 1973 film with Yule Brenner, though.

I figure this is a "reply to a 3 month old post in order to accuse someone of hypocrisy" but I honestly have no idea what you're getting at.

Yeah, but porn doesn't need to be everywhere, all the time. Some fanservice is okay, but it's the all-encompassing, ubiquitous nature of it that this article is criticizing.

Sure, people like porn. But pornography is generally relegated to the aforementioned " poorly lit dusty corner" and clearly labeled as what it is. It's not something that you find everywhere, which is as it should be. Certainly "be more like porn" would not be a positive change for virtually all other media, so why is it good for anime?

It's like bacon. Bacon is all well and good, but it shouldn't be in everything and people who think "bacon belongs in everything" are just mistaken, as there are a lot of things that are worse off from the inclusion of bacon.

As a straight guy, I don't get how other straight guys don't feel like their intelligence is being insulted.

I mean, there are plenty of reasons to dislike fanservice anyway, but the older I get the more I feel mocked by it. I remember giving up Fairy Tail because I was so sick of the constant fanservice (Well, that and terrible writing).

True.

It's one thing when the characters "act sexy" because it's a necessary part of the story. For instance, if they're seducing someone.

But it gets ridiculous when the characters pose sexily for no reason at all, many times in very impractical ways, like during a fight. I'm not a expert on manga and anime, but American superhero comics have tons of instances of superheroines making important speeches while the "camera" is pointed at their butt.

Just replace it in your head with a male character making a heroic speech in a drama, and just imagine if the camera crawled down to his crotch and stayed there while he spoke...

Yeah. The only example I can think of that comes even remotely close to that is Papillon from Busou Renkin.