Yes, it is people and movements that drive this country forward in progressive directions, not our elected 'leaders'.

But, sooner or later, you need to elect leaders who are willing and able to pass the laws to implement that change. And who are willing to nominate and confirm Supreme Court justices who will allow that change to stand.

StickinMyCraw--

I do think that if we elect Hillary, we will have a president who will
nominate Justices who will vote for change.

(Look at the people who Obama has put on the court.
Her nominees will be similar.)

Hillary is likely to nominate more women & minorities.
And she will nominate v. intelligent , rational candidates
who know the law.

I agree. And the more Dems that get elected to the Senate, the more progressive she can be with her nominations.

Yes--exactly.

And even if she doesn't have enough Dems to go further left,
Obama's nominee would be fine. He would vote with the
liberals.

SticksinMy Craw

Not really.

In the U.S., major change comes as a result of grass-roots movements AND
action by our elected leaders. It takes both to create real change.

Civil Rights Act -- achieved because of people on the ground: MLK and those
who marched with him AND
LBJ and Robert Kennedy.--the leaders who pushed hard for civil rights.

(LBJ knewthat if he did this, Dems would lose the South--and they did.
. Most white people in the South were not ready for Civil Right legislation.
But LBJ had been committed to civil rights for years, (as a young man he had taught black students in Texas public schools) and finally was
able to get the ACT through Congress

Note : this was a big step --but only the beginning of change.

We are still fighting racism and segregation.

This is what Hillary has been telling us: change comes over time. It's a
process, and usually, it's incremental.

In the U.S. we have never had a"people's revolution" that brought change.
The American Revolution was hardly grassroots--It was led by land-owners who
then became elected leaders.

Woman's right, civil rights, Gay rights all have come over a period of many years,
slowly and with great effort by people on the ground and some elected leaders

The one people's revolution was the South's attempt to fight the emancipation of slaves and secede from the union. That revolution failed.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think that was the point I was trying to make.

I guess I wasn't clear: It's people and movements (like MLK, Malcolm X, and the people they inspired) that provide the impetus for change, but that change won't happen until we elect leaders (LBJ and RFK) who will follow-through ... albeit sometimes somewhat reluctantly, quietly kicking and screaming.

Which is why I don't understand self-described "progressives" who think it is pointless to vote ... or who will only cast "protest votes". All of the agitation in the world won't accomplish diddly-squat until elected representatives are in place who can convert those dreams into legislative reality.

SticksinMyCraw-

I'm very sorry.

You are right--I didn't understand what you were saying.

Not your fault: probably I've just read too many comments on this thread suggesting that change can only come from a
grass -roots revolution.

I'm old enough to remember leaders like Robert Kennedy--and
LBJ on domestic issues (Medicare, Civil Rights)
& I continue to believe that leaders can make a great difference.

(Over the past 8 years, we have seen what I have been waiting for. Against all odds, Obama brought us a 1st big step toward
HealthCare reform. .

As you say:"All of the agitation in the world won't accomplish diddly-squat until elected representatives are in place who can convert those dreams into legislative reality."

This is why everyone who cared about change must come out
and vote--not only for Hillary, but down-ticket.

"he was an angry man, spinning words so dark
he called for death to rich men, death to Yuppies, too
death to art fags, bourgeois blacks, death to landlord Jews!
Kill the bankers, kill the cops, kill
him her and me, kill them all for CBS, NBC, ABC, TBN,
CNN, HBO, "Life At Five", MTV Spring Break Party
Weekend, Sally Jesse Raphael, Geraldo, Oprah, Arsenio,
Regis and Kathy Lee..."

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.c...

it's better as parody than policy.

so in a 90 minute debate clinton didn't come up with the $15 minimum wage idea but is merely promoting the demands of low wage workers (how dare she be a politician!), she "missed a chance to nail Trump in the debate on stop-and-frisk," and instead called him out on his racism in leading the "birther" movement (she can't do everything, all at once, for ever?!), she promised a "surveillance state" (???) (because your samsung cellphone isn't enough of a tracking device on every level, and it isn't the job of governments to "look at every scrap of information" concerning public safety?), and she "failed to mention the individuals and families warehoused in privately-run immigration jails [are] under federal control." wow, what a war-mongering bitch whore from hell; launch another investigation into why she is so questionable and suspcious for people who just want (their) answers. there's some real damaging evidence here!

And so you dismiss the faux in the progressive she tries to appear to be? (Actually, the corporate stooge....)

Hillary's strategy is, above all, to avoid discussion of her corrupt Clinton
Foundation,her 33,000 emails that were transferred to 13 lap tops and smashed and her five assistants who took the fifth amendment instead of telling the truth and to be sure people are distracted with her goading of Trump so that do not discuss her war record and her goading of Russia. If she is elected we will have to live with all that.

If Hillary is elected, we will see continuation of this mindless agitation of Russia

"In 2016, as we deal with the West’s new hysteria regarding Russia – complete with rehashes of prior propaganda themes and military escalations – the pressing question is whether there are any adults left at senior levels of Official Washington who can rein in the madness before things spin entirely out of control.

Santayana famously noted, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” But the real danger now is that history won’t stop at repeating itself but will continue beyond, plunging over the nuclear precipice.

Ray McGovern 27-year career as a CIA analyst included leading CIA’s Soviet Foreign Policy Branch. He later conducted morning briefings of President Reagan’s most senior national security advisers with the President’s Daily Brief. He now works with Tell the Word, a publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in inner-city Washington

Russia-Baiting and Risks of Nuclear War – Consortiumnews
https://consortiumnews.com/201...

So to you, if someone does not want to go to war with Russia then they must be pro-Russia? and pro-Trump? Hate to tell you but many people don't want a war with Russia and are not pro-Trump or Russia.

Good article about where we are and need to go. The idea that technology, the computer, social media give great advantages could mean something if it were not full of unreasoned hate by those younger who in the past have failed to vote or get involved. The fact that Trump is 70 and Clinton 68 is part of the system of corruption of the US democracy that needs to be repaired. Hopefully the change will come without constant anger, bashing, lying and refusal to be reasonable.

These two are the problem not the solution.

Benevolent hands? tRUMP and $Hillary? Those 2 have benevolent hands?
REALLY?!
Ludwig must be snarking.

If institutions reflect society what do the two allowed candidates tell us?

Looks like a new version of the always revealing Don't Ask Don't Tell policy is playing this season.

Enjoy the electoral pageant - you're paying for it.

Anyone willingly voting for either of these loathsome creatures would have to be a moral leper.

IF SHE'S SO GREAT, THEN WHY CAN'T SHE BE HONEST ABOUT ALL THE HIDEN EMAILS SHE MADE SHE OWES THE PUBLIC THAT, AND ALL THE REST SHE'S HIDING FROM AMERICANS, AND THE FACT SHE'S BEHIND THE ATTACHS ON AMERICA FROM THE FOREIGNERS, AND MUCH MORE THAT'S BEEN APOINTED OUT ON HER, CAREFUL VOTING HILARY IN OFFICE.

I'd settle for $Hillary releasing her transcripts(unedited) from Goldman Sachs.

That would sink her for sure and she knows it.

USA TODAY Has no right to tell public NOT to vote TRUMP, you people put HILARY in office you WILL BE ENDING AMERICA AS YOU KNOW IT, We will there after HAVE armed guards on the streets, all bibles will be removed from homes , you and family members that are Christians whom believe and follow God's Bible KJV 1611 will be put in concentration camps that's been made all over the world. Look up concentration camps USA. YOU'LL SEE she's out along with Obama to end the USA they don't care about us people they have their under ground bunks to live in, wake up realize she's not going to do what she says, it's all preprogrammed to end AMERICA AS WE know it don't listen to USA News against TRUMP for he's the TRUE ONE to Vote for don't be one to retreat your vote believing HILARY BIG MISTAKE IF YOU CHOOSE HILARY, USING CHILDREN TO WIN AND NOT TELLING HER REAL AGENDA TO BE IN OFFICE. CHOOSE TRUMP OR NO ONE BUT DON'T CHOOSE HER AND MAKE AMERICA BE SORRY FOR YOUR VOTE WHICH INVOLVES YOUR PARENTS, CHILDREN THEY PLAN TO USE IN WAYS YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT, YOUR GRAND PARENTS, COUSINS, AUNTS AND UNCLES, SO ON DON'T PUT THEIR LIVES AT RISK TO PUT HILARY IN OFFICE .

usa......Oh gawd. Such pitiful rant.

Let me be perfectly clear here, whatever criticisms I have of $Hillary are well deserved by her own words/deeds, but that is NOT an endorsement of the hamster haired ogre with a fuhrer complex.

Getting christians back under their rocks is long overdue. At least that part makes sense.

Holy Mother of Christ are you serious.
I get not wanting to support Clinton. But thinking Trump is your saviour? How hypocritical can you get?
There will be NO saviour, no messiah, no hero from above that will come to the rescue.If we Americans want a better country, a healthier, more stable society, we're going to have to do it ourselves. When are we going to learn? The "shit they shuffle around every four years", as the late great George Carlin put it, doesn't change a thing.

If you care about Christianity, then please recall Jesus' teaching about the dust in someone else's eye, and the need to take care of the plank in your own. You speak like you don't value education. Get an education, because you are listening to people that are putting your head in a spin. Recalling Jesus teaching about mercy, lovingkindness, and social justice, then you should look at Jill Stein and the Green Party. Amen.

I like (as in, I don't like at all) how Trump thinks that, because the ruling on Stop and Frisk was *going* to be appealed, but the wheels came off of the effort due to De Blasio's inability to get things done, it's okay to pretend that the ruling is *going* to be overturned and just carry on with 'business as usual'.

Maybe he shops around for lawyers that agree with him the way Dubya liked to do. I hear Liberty University has some *good* lawyers for that sort of thing.

I've heard some good things that Di Blasio has done, and would suspect that he didn't want to appeal such a racist policy.

Yes--
Di Blasio is the best mayor we have had in NYC in many years.

And I am pretty confident that he will be re-elected for a second term.

Oh, I agree. I was just 'amused' (if that's the right word) at how quickly Trump shifts from "we're going to appeal" to "the ruling is null and void and can be ignored".
I wonder if this is how Trump does *everything*? You know, get an idea, assume someone has put it into practice, successfully, and move on.

tallen 387--

Yes, I'm afraid that this is how Trump does everything.

I have followed him for more than 30 years.

He is slippery, has no conscience, and not real ideas.

Trump seems to me like a typical fast talking, money-moving dinosaur. Egotistical, narcissistic, scapegoating. A multimillionaire seven year old mentality who uses his celebrity to help a lot of people get their rocks off and let off steam illegitimately, in essence.

He scapegoats Black and other victims of economic injustice and exploitation, and wants to work the "law and order" codespeak. It's a modus operandi that has a big niche in American culture, that has gotten bigger since World War II and Reagan.

I'm hopeful that Obama's success means that there are enough Americans who are not completely capable of following Trumpf. Since the GOP nefariousness seems to operate in lies and fantasies, like the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth", it seems like some percentage of the GOP old guard can't stomach Trumpf's public tantrum-style vomiting.

greenpeaceRdale-

You are exactly right.

And I think that Obama's success will mean that many voters will reject Trump and pick HRC.

The future of our Country is in peril. How people could be so blind that can't see what is happening and who is running our nation! Sad and scary!

It really comes down to how this country has developed. It's not the country you think it is. It is dominated by the greedy and sophisticated rich corporate executives, and the culture revolves around television and other mass media. Since WWII, it also has sucked power from the rest of the world, so now the mess is linked to military might, and all the ideological fantasies that go with that. Join Greenpeace, Oxfam, and any educational establishment to fight the good fight.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...
More evidence of election fraud.
If we have lost our vote we have lost all power to choose the laws and policies that run our lives.. Corporations agenda is to render our votes impotent.

No evidence

None! And no more to come! But hope springs eternal.

10 ways the Democratic primary has been rigged from the start
This race is still far from over, but that won't stop the establishment from trying to hand the nom to Hillary :http://www.salon.com/2016/0...

THER HAS BEEN EVADANCE BUT ITS BEEN SHOVED UNDER THE TABLE , I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR WATCHING, BUT THEY HAVE SAID SO ON NATIONAL LIVE TV, ITS JUST BEEN SHOVED UNDER THE TABLE.

Oh, They've said so on national LIVE TV have they?
Then it must be true.

Read this, Maggie Mahar:

https://drive.google.com/fi...

jIm--

Thank you. I have read it. (Was already familiar with it.)

Election fraud has been proven but the Oligarchy hates Democracy so much that they are willing to risk a Trump presidency rather than nominate the true winner, Bernie Sanders. Now corporate TV won't even interview Jill Stein and are making Gary Johnson look like an idiot. They are afraid of Jill Stein! Her polls are higher then 3 %

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

No one has to "MAKE" Gary Johnson look like an idiot.

He does that quite nicely all by himself.

Bernie was not the "true winner".

Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Gays and well-educated women all objected to his
racism and his misogyny.

His organization actually bussed Latino's to rallies in areas where they didn't live to make it appear that he had support from POC.

No one is afraid of Jill Stein.

HILARY IS NOT AND WILL NOT BE THE TRUE WINNER, YOU VOTE HER IN AND YOU CAN KISS YOUR CHILDREN, PARENT'S,AUNTS,UNCLES, GRANDPARENTS ALL GOODBYE OFF TO CONCENTRATION CAMPS THEY WILL GO IF THEY OWN THE TRUE KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE 1611 THE TRUE BIBLE OF GODS WORDS TO THE WORLD BEFORE SATAN'S FALSE BIBLES CHANGING GODS TRUE WORDS AND MANY ARMED GUARDS ON THE STREETS AND OUR FREEDOM REMOVED, SHE'S IN OFFICE AMERICA WON'T BE AMERICA NO MORE. THINK BEFORE YOU CHOOSE HER.

Please stop with the all caps. It makes it difficult to read your comment.

usa...Actually I wish someone would kiss you goodbye. You don't offer an educated adult opinion but a toddler-twos temper tantrum.