I have a different view of what an Empathic Narcissist is. I'm a narcissist, clear as a mirror, and I've known it since I was teenager. I'm self-aware of my issues and actively work on them. But ever since I was a kid I could also feel and understand others just as easily as I could understand myself. I love talking but I also enjoy listening (especially the people I care about or about something that spikes my interest). For me being an Empathic person means caring about what happens to others and what they're feeling, and I know I do.
That's my perspective on it, anyways.

my question is: do you believe that borderline personality is an empathic narcissist? the symptoms you wrote are seen in the dsm5, its textbook bpd. do you have any education on the psych realm and if so, did you base this article on said education?

Hi Aisha. I can't give a professional opinion as I am not a psychologist/psychiatrist. As stated in the article, "Finally, this article was written in the interests of self-exploration and self-growth, not as an actual medical diagnosis." However, I think it's possible for both conditions to overlap as little in the realm of psychology is totally black and white (e.g. I'm quite sure a few people in my extended family have a mixture of bipolar, schizophrenic and narcissistic tendencies).

@aisha, would you recommend that someone who displays these traits seek medical attention? I've had the feeling (as well as my siblings) that my mother should because it is likely a serious mental illness, but she refuses to seek treatment...

I've tried to wash my hands of this pickle, but it keeps coming back and affecting my family.

i totally believe that its a fine line and you have to really know your truth

Those with bipolar disorder are prone to "black or white" thinking.

I ended up here because of an "empath" related facebook group I signed up to. I started recognizing something toxic and inherently dishonest about a large number of the posts I encountered.

The overall theme of what I noticed was a sort of victimhood identity, which people seem to be trying to rebrand as a virtue. Histrionics and projection are presented as evidence of sensory powers, with the ultimate goal of the enterprise being the avoidance of the painful truth by acquiring group consensus of a more preferable reality.

I used to be similar to them, which is partly how I recognize it so well. I was in a relationship with a toxic cluster b type, probably narcissism, or aspd, for 5 years. When I got out of that situation, it took a couple of years, but now I've somehow purged myself of almost all of that same kind of weakness that left me so vulnerable to those kind of people my entire life.

I no longer ache with loneliness, or foster a "special snowflake" victim identity, which is at the core of these so called "empaths". Some kind of narcissistic victim identity. I no longer blame others if I end up in a toxic relationship, I hold my self responsible for projecting neediness and weakness, which is nothing but irresistible bait for an abusive personality. So I no longer project those things. If I observe the slightest bit of manipulation or unnecessary deceit on the part of a new person who is interested in me, I will usually casually describe my observation directly to them while watching their reaction. It allows them to correct me in case I have actually made a mistake in judgement, without it seeming weird. But to those who ARE manipulating, the experience is a bit more intense. The look of a person who just realized they have completely underestimated you is unmistakable. I spend alot more time alone now, but am more confident and at peace. So much better to be strong and willing to trust your instincts than needy and weak.

I think a big part of our suffering comes when we blame ourselves for the things that we experience in our lives. When we try to see things from a higher perspective, as something that on a earth level why might not understand it, it really helps. When these negative feelings arise and we are so stuck on the past, like oh my god , why this happened to me? I'm a such good person ! Or i definitely attracted them, so it's totally my fault because i create my own reality !! . We cannot process the information on that level.

I was born in a ''narcissistic family'' so i choose to be into this situation. It's my responsibility everything that happened, and YES i suffered and i had a lot of pain into this experience, in a lot of moments i would not understand why it happened, but i do believe in divine timing, that we all have spirit guides and they slowly give us information and syncronicities that makes us see everything from a higher perspective. If anyone is in pain about this experience, understand that one day everything gonna make sense to you. I'm not healed 100% but i can definitely see the gift behind it. Everything in our society and the 3d earth plane is a matter of perspective and perception. Every person have a different perception about things based on their own experience . What narcissists does, especially the empathic ones, they show all our wounds to ourselves. They also change the perception of people around them all the time, including our own perception. The gift behind it is that by doing that we are left on the ground so many times and everytime that happen we gotta rebuild ourselves on a inner level.

We get more in touch with our higher self by being with narcissists, because they show that the 3d reality is a pure ilussion. What happened is, we trust our OWN judgement and our OWN perceptions much more by being in contact with narcissists. I wouldn't change anything that happened to my life, and i'm very grateful for being in a family with 2 narcissistics parents that ''destroyed'' me so many times. By of being in this environment, i naturally absorbed their perceptions and attracted others narcissists in my life, that helped me to see who i truly was. I would not change anything , never, ever, it was the best thing that happened to me.

In our society we have the tendency to find things on the external (we learn with others by example) , and to absorb the perceptions of others to ourselves. Friends, collegues, etc, define us by our looks, our personality the way we project our inner world into the external world. That way we create a ''false self'' , a personality that is not real. Example: A school guy is just a little bit overweight and the people around him create nicknames about him being ugly and fat. What happened is, this person gonna identify with the perceptions created by the people around him (sometimes it's not true, and can be created due to jealousy, negativity, etc) and start to integrate all this stuff into his personality. His soul is on the inside sleeping, but his MIND gonna identify and create this personality on a subcouncious level.

By being with narcissists with understand the illusion behind it, and this things don't affect us anymore. Why ???? Because narcissists change our perceptions about ourselves to REALLY terrible stuff, and they do that ALL the time so we experience ''different realities'' . They put thing into your mind like: you are sick, you are autist, ezquizofrenic, they tell you how ugly you are, how bad is your nose, your thin you are, they make you think like you are losing your hair, they create perceptions into other people around you that you are crazy, they make people believe that you are crazy, that you have mental problems (a third part to confirm their perceptions), SOO they are really masters of perceptions !!!! By beiing bombarded by this, we forget all about the illusions of the reality and the external stuff and we dive deep on our internal word :D , that's the true gift behind it :D . So if you have been through this experience like i had, believe it's not your fault !!! Everything have a higher purpose and i'm thanksful for everything they did to me . They teach us how powerful is our mind, everything we believe becomes our reality. If we are grounded in our own inner perceptions, nobody can affect us anymore. That's the real blessing behind it . Much love to you guys <3

Wow Marcos...what u said made so much sense to me. Thank you for this insight it really really helped and I am experiencing this as well. Although I am not healed I am working my way to healing. And yes...all that you wrote. Thank you again.

It is hard to start looking at your life and pain caused by narcissistic parents from a higher perspective..But YES ! So much illusions and lies created by narcissist can be a wake up call and a begining your own journey through life! I came to the point were I didn t belive anyone else but myself...and then I started to value my opinion, my own moral codes and to follow my intuition...

This is my confession. Ever since I can remember I felt different and as though I didn't belong here. I felt like an outsider and while I did well academically I struggled with social relationships. Yeah my home life wasn't perfect but whose really is. As I said this is my confession. My first serious relationship was with a very wonderful woman two years my senior when I was 21. At first things seemed amazing. I probably even believed that she could "Fix" me and the hole I had inside. But after a short honeymoon period I began behavior to push her away. Acting out and staying out late with my friends. Drinking more and calling names. I wanted to push her away. But the more I pushed the more she she pulled back. This cycle went on for another 3 years of my acting out and treating her horribly until I decided to just up and leave 3 months before the wedding. During that time I quit drinking because I though that's was my problem the booze. So I went to AA and about a year in I met yet another beautiful and amazing woman. We began talking and talked as friends for a few months before dating. But after we began dating things escalated quickly. She had a small 18 month old daughter whom I loved spending time with. And we were married within a year of dating. After that things got bad. I became bored and afraid of becoming close so my indfidelity started. It was always physical so as I could rationalize it easier to her. I first told her about this infidelity just after our son was born. Also I began drinking and using drugs again when things were rough. Even gambling. I would do anything to make myself fill the void inside. This went on in cycles of splitting and getting back together for another 7 years during which time I tried church and praying for Jesus to remove my desire or sins etc. I know I'm a narccissist. I now know how much my actions have hurt my family and everyone around me. From what I have read I'm a hellbound demon who has no hope. But I can't take that. I'm self aware now. And I still have two children who need a father not a monster. Please help.

I just got out of a 2 year Relationship that sounds exactly the same as yours, He was head over hills, always wanting to see me, bringing me grifts saying he loved me almost straight away, I was hesitant because of past relationships and I knew I liked him but my insecurities made me put up a "hard to get wall" He ended up really growing on me and I found myself constantly begging for his attention and taking every bit of criticism he would say seriously, he's jokes would be sharp and blunt with no humour, we'd be out and he'd pour his drink over my head, belittle me around others, and when someone would compliment something nice I did he'd shut it down, he told me one day when i reacted over a belittlement joke that he's learnt a lot about being in a relationship and that its that he likes his own time, So Instead of understanding I internalised it and took it personally, so from then on I was super vigilant and would wait for him to make plans with me and would take it personally if he'd rather spend time with friends, I ended up finding myself getting manipulative to get a reaction like by taking ages to write back etc. There was just no emotional connection, I would go to his house and he'd walk straight off and then when I'd go see what he was doing he would respond with " you like following me around don't you", this made me feel awful and unwanted, so when he did show me attention I was confused and then when he withdrew again i would get snappy, I did the silent treatment a lot because I felt really uneasy talking to him because he would shut me down saying I have and ego or I'm too defensive. it got to the point where he had so much power over me he'd yell if i didn't sit up after I ate. I have learnt that my dad has this personality trait hands down as he's always made me feel bad about doing things he doesn't agree with, even still knowing that I'm 25, I feel like he has taken advantage of me the most out of my siblings because I do have a sensitive persona, Im really worried now that I take things very personally and can get manipulative / do the silent treatment that I may also have this personality disorder?? :(

There is always hope. The first step is self awareness. I think that it takes enormous courage to face our "inner demons" so to speak (we all have them in various shapes and forms). The fact that you want to be a good father to your children is a wonderful thing and something to remember and hold on to when things are challenging while working on healing yourself. Not everyone's parents want to do that for their children and I imagine that many of them don't have the self awareness to get started in the first place. The fact that you have that self awareness means that you have a very powerful tool in helping to bring enormous positivity, healing and emotional growth in your life. So many people never find that... No matter what their challenges, conditions or positions in life. All the best for your path ahead...

Hi Joe, and thank your for sharing your vulnerability here. No matter what others scream, declare and write in various articles on the internet, there is proof that narcissism (we're talking about covert narcissism here) can be decreased and sometimes healed. If you are truly serious about becoming a more empathetic person I really recommend taking a number of courses of action:

1) Think about getting a professional opinion. Not everything we think and believe about ourselves is true, so I encourage you to seek a psychologist. Not only will a psychologist be able to honestly tell you what they think, they'll also be able to recommend the best methods of self-healing (should you be a narcissist). Simply look up one in your area, find out the cost, and book an appointment. This is imperative.

2) Learn about something called Emotional Intelligence. Look at the book on Amazon and get it (if possible): http://www.amazon.com/Emoti... Get into a habit of reading this book every day. Follow up by reading Rosenberg's "Non-violent communication" which will teach you about empathetic communication: http://www.amazon.com/Nonvi... Both of these books, in my opinion, are MUST reads.

3) Try applying some of the advice in this article at the end.

I hope this helps Joe. I admire your honesty and desire to become a better father.

~Luna

I'm so glad you read that book! To me, Rosenberg's book is one of my top 10 of all time. I know how you feel. It's scary and unsettling to think that you possess similar traits to those in your life. At first it's a terrible blow to the ego. But unconditional self love and acceptance have a way of wiping the slate clean!

Thank you so much for expressing your gratitude and sharing here. xx

Love your blog! Always keeps us refining ourselves! We as humans are challenging creatures aren't we? Don't we all have some characteristic of all of what we deem as unhealthy and healthy mental qualities? To different degrees of course for reasons that you have already mentioned. I know I can read an article and think, oh wow! I resemble that remark! I have to agree that being aware of your negative and positive characteristics is important! We have to have a desire to change ourselves and the willingness to be honest with ourselves. What makes us desire to change ourselves to be someone better? Unhappiness, pain, suffering, honesty of a friend or loved one? So many of us experience negative emotions and never seek to change.

Yes, very true! And I love your openness and willingness to be honest. ^_^

Why do you think that some are not willing to change even though they know who and what they are?

Hi. So this article seems to be pretty spot on to describe my mother. I've been so confused because her behavior has been downright contradictory of any terms in certain cases, but this explains it. I just want to say thank you for helping me not feel so crazy...

Sometimes I think that empaths can recognize early in life their abilities. I wonder if over time and years it can almost make you numb or emotionally detached, resorting to narcissistic ways. To be blunt, those who are empath know there are a lot of shitty people out there. I know when younger I was trusting and trying to look at the good qualities or things. Now older, I just have no patience or care for individual peoples bullshit. Most people now are shady at best and I see through their crap within moments of conversation.
I focus my empathy globally now. Just my opinion but I feel this is where "narcistic empaths" or any empath can do some good. We have a great grasp on human emotions and tendency. Sometimes, I feel both terms narcissist and empath are bullshit. What if both are one in the same in a sense. Some choose to embrace and feel it (let them effect their life and thoughts) where others understand it and use the skill for personal gain or other. Hope any of that made sense sorry for my ramblings.

I think the article is confusing secondary traumatic stress, or empathy fatigue, with covert narcissism. People who tend towards empathy can become unsympathetic due to over exposure to others trauma, or similarly intense emotional states. STS doesn't make an empath into a narcissist. The covert narcissist is someone who shrouds themselves in the ideal image of a "good" person, but who doesn't actually possesses the qualities they deem desirable, and will punish others who challenge their self-centered perspective. Empathy is currently touted as a behavioral ideal, so the narcissist may believe that in order to support their self-image as a "good" person, they must possess this desirable quality. They may also punish others who challenge their personal image of being a "good" person. Interestingly, there are many online who build up their personal image of a "good" person by accusing others of narcissism and claiming they possess sensitivity and empathy. It's dishonest and shows a shallow understanding of empathetic experience. Empathy doesn't require niceness, that would be sympathy or compassion, but empathy does imply an intense awareness of another's state. It's wrapped up in the package of Theory of Mind, which might be a better test of how empathetic someone actually is. Do they really understand that an equally conscious entity exists in another, or is their experience more limited, such as others appearing to be more like empty dolls?

Thank you for this thought-provoking article. Everybody has narcissistic traits to a degree, even empaths. Since I hear my inner critic, am relatively self-aware, have always felt vulnerable and unworthy, I'm not an empathic narcissist according to this definition. However, my husband is a covert (fragile or vulnerable) narcissist. While most might be either clearly narcissists or empaths (or neither), I can imagine types in between the two on the sliding scale.

I have a question. my wife says and I beleave her that she is am empath. She has never really been able to read me unless I my temper that's to boil over. She has been spending a lot of her time with a family that say they are empaths and it is pulling her away from me and our kids. I don't know if I could be a Narcissist I am shy and quiet until I get to know someone but I always have a positive outlook on life and that things will be better everyone always seems to open up to me telling me all kinds of things that at going on with them and when there having a hard time and I'm around they just seem to tell me about it. I don't know what I am truly asking for but I feel like I am loosing my wife and I don't know if it's because of me or not. I feel like she is being pulled away from me. She has had a bad history with her family and not be able to show her emotions and when we got together I told her that wasn't good and tried to get her to let them out.

I see it much more simply. Empaths get worn out. When they can take no more, they turn into narcissists to protect themselves from abuse. It is the wrong way to do it, but most empaths never learn how to switch their empathic ability on for the right people and off for the wrong people. They become victim to their skill.

Empaths do not become narcissists. They suffer from STS, which is also termed empathy or compassion fatigue. It's common in medical staff and others involved in care taking, but can manifest in anyone with empathetic tendencies. There is psychological therapy designed to treat this.

Off topic and not directed at anyone in particular but: I'm a little frustrated with the common notion online that if someone is vaguely interpreted to be unkind then they must be a narcissist. That is not science based. The DSM is the only determinant of a narcissist, and that is merely a designation to help clinical psychologists treat patients. I see it used online as a means to slander others, and also to support the maudlin notions of people who seem to have a damaged sense of self, and expect unrealistic romantic feelings from others with neglectful or abusive tendencies. Their paramors aren't necessarily narcissists either, but may suffer from a variety of other disorders, or may simply be uninterested in the relationship. An adult with a healthy sense of self will leave a relationship that threatens their well-being. Instead of assuming another person is to blame, try investigating attachment styles. Instead of assuming you are super-empathic and too sensitive for this world, and that someone who burned you is a big meanie narcissist, you should investigate Psychology. Don't rely on pop-science articles or books. Look at journal articles. The database ScienceDirect is a great place to start. Maybe take some courses in Psychology and related social sciences. You will be surprised by your own behavior. It will change you for the better.

Agree completely! Any suggestions to help with this?

No, none. Still learning. Even when you learn to filter out the users and abusers, you still have to deal with other empaths doing their own oversensitive narcissistic thing. If the bad guys don't get you the good guys will. I still throw myself too wholeheartedly into friendships because I feel the beauty of who the other person is, just to find them playing games - reading too much into everything, taking everything too personally, zapping off when they get a whim with no concern for those they suddenly neglect. It's something we have to work on - and to do that we need others willing to work with us.

Just to add my 2 cents. Some Narcissistic people show and feel empathy because they view themselves as saviours to lesser people. They want to help, but only for how it makes them feel about who they are. The feeling of empathy is like a drug that can make them feel high or lower. Either way, it's intense gratification.

Hi Aletha,
This is a great article! Do you have any recommendations for empathetic empaths in dealing with narcissistic empaths, particularly narcisisstic empaths who unshakeably believe that they are in the right?
Here is some background to my question: I am fairly empathic, and I would say my mother is too. My mother believes herself to be an empathetic empath, but her behavior and emotions are very much in line with most of what you have outlined above, particularly the self-martyrdom as a form of manipulation, superiority, and inability to deal with even minor differences in opinions. I have tried everything I can think of, ranging from extreme patience and understanding to the take-no-bullshit direct approach in trying to communicate with her, but she continues to percieve any difference in opinion or criticism from someone she is close to as an attack and shuts down. I finally came to the conclusion that since she doesn't want my help (or to acknowledge that she has a problem), there's not a whole lot I can do for her. Even though I now live about a thousand miles away (so far the most reliable way to keep the emotional distance I need is physical distance), our relationship is still tense and complicated, and frequently exhausting, since I can feel the pain she is in but there is nothing healthy I can do to fix it. She is not the only person like this I have known, just the hardest to deal with! As I imagine there are probably a number of other people reading this blog who have dealt with similar situations, do you have any recommendations for empathetic empaths in dealing with narcissistic empaths? Thanks!

I am still unsure whether I am Empath or Narcassist this could be my answer, I am very spiritual, a practising clairvoyant and always told I have a big heart,I can't say no to people, and I have the not so great gift of the Empaths of emotionally and literally feeling others emotions, I love when I'm in love and have lots of time for people,however I am really selfish in I pay attention to my needs and worries and not the closest people around me at all, I am not touchy feely (even harder for my partner) and lately conversation goes in one ear out the other,its not that I am rude however. I have emotional hang ups and problems and I wonder if I wasn't so spiritual whether that would disappear? Empath or Narcissist who knows.

:)

An empath who has never learned to control your energies, and never learned how to protect yourself from too much incoming data. Just badly schooled.

I liked your article and your website! It is awesome!

Do you define an Empath as one that applies empathy or one that feels the emotions of others? I agree with you that there is a difference between the two, but depending on the degree of Empath, feeling the emotion and applying empathy are probably more related to a Higher Degree of Awareness in an Empath than an Empath in general perhaps?

You are one of the only Empath’s that I have encountered that works with Narcissistic personalities. As this seems to be one of my particularly callings (although I was angry and in denial about it for two years before I just accepted it), I am almost filled with tears of joy for another Empath to relate with as it is probably the most turbulent emotions I have ever experienced in my entire life! I have always maintained that Empaths can be the absolute worst about asking for help from other Empaths, but in most cases, Empaths need each other the most!

I personally have always defined an Empath as one that was able to feel the emotions of others, although just like Narcissism, I believe there are varying degrees of Empaths. I also believe there is a variety of different ways in which Empaths operate, for me personally, the emotions of others hits me almost like a vibration, regardless if I know the person or the experience of which caused the emotion that they are feeling. This happens for me if I tune in remotely or if I am in the room with someone. If this person is someone who wishes to open up to me about their feelings, I am able to apply empathy either through what I refer to as “Imagination (relating to their feeling combined with the knowledge of the event that trigged their emotion) or Shared Experience (relating to their feeling compared with my feelings related to something I have also experienced in my lifetime).

I have since separated the categories because when the emotion is related to an experience in which I have not personally experienced, I avoid what I refer to as “Adoption”. In “Imagination”, I would classify other’s emotion as associated with the event. However, when I would go through a similar experience later in life, I noticed that I would have a harder time relating to my own emotions. It also made me realize that until I truly walked in someone’s shoes, I could not fully combine the feeling with the knowledge of what that feeling resulted in, but could in how the other person’s emotion was translated (it is kind of hard to explain). As an Empath, I have spent much time in compartmentalizing the emotions of others verses my own emotions to prevent enmeshment or entanglement. It is my safe-guard of my self.

Narcissist's, by definition are unable to feel empathy for others, but boy, let me tell you – all of them demonstrate intense empathy for themselves. Therefore, they too could be said to be abounding in empathy, albeit related to themself. I have had to tune into this energy and unfortunately have no choice but to remain, but without “Adoption”, it would be virtually impossible for me to 1) empathize with the Narcissist position and feel compassion and/or 2) not get pulled down into the void with them!

I also believe that the souls of Narcissists and Empath’s were cut from the same emotional fabric, but diverged in how they vested their energy. The gift of healing comes from love - it is not our own, but from God - a borrowed energy if you will - but the energy can never be used for oneself. I believe that for one reason or other, the Narcissist chose to use that energy for itself while the Empath chose to use that energy for others. In order to use this energy for itself, the Narcissist creates a construct (false self or Persona) to ensnare emotional responses as it takes those emotions and feeds the Shadow Self. It almost is a form of Multiple Personality Disorder. The Empath gives the energy to others.

In my journey, I have realized that feeling one's emotions lead me to giving one what they wanted - rather than what they needed. I now practice the art of helping one discover the subconscious and align them with choice because, in the end, that is the divergence between becoming a giver or receiver: choice.

In regards to the Narcissist comment above: “Narcissists can be like angels in disguise. Narcissists are catalysts of change in people’s lives: they stir up all the old wounds, scars and shadow elements in a person and force growth.”

Yes, we are told that God works in mysterious ways, but that does not, nor will it ever, condone the choice that a Narcissist makes to inflict pain on another person. To view it in such a way, condones negative behavior with a mystical purpose that further inflates the grandiosity. God’s divine plan and power will be furthered regardless of what anyone does, but it will never absolve one of their choice of which we all will be held individually accountable.. There is good and bad us in all. It is the choice we make that defines who we are.

I often refer to the Parable of the Two Wolves...

"A grandfather is talking with his grandson and he says there are two wolves inside of us which are always at war with each other.

One of them is a good wolf which represents things like kindness, bravery and love. The other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed, hatred and fear.

The grandson stops and thinks about it for a second then he looks up at his grandfather and says, “Grandfather, which one wins?”

The grandfather quietly replies, the one you feed."

In conclusion, I would venture to say that I am not one for labels, but the word Narcissist and Empath hold different meanings for different people. I think it would be unwise for any Empath to admit that in one’s journey we did not make judgments to quickly…immaturity maybe…– but each person is different and labels are often deceiving – that is not for any of us to judge, in my humble opinion, but the word narcissistic does not radiate to any energy I feel from you already of that particular definition! ☺

Hi, I am a covert narcissist. I recently started a blog to outline the events in my life that I believe led me to becoming a narcissist. My goal is to educate people on specific events that can happen during childhood that can lead to this behavior so you don't make the same parenting/mentoring mistakes I experienced growing up. I also want to give you real-life examples of things that I have done so you can get a better understanding of the behavior and be able to pinpoint signs in others that you may be dating or have a friendship with before they put you through emotional pain as I have done countless times to others. I realize that this is not a very narcissistic thing to do, but my life has become very screwed up because of my behavior and I'm looking to do some self-exploration to see if I can find some kind of resolution by doing this. Check it out at www.imanarcissist.com and I hope I can help you along with helping myself along the way (of course, I'm a narcissist).

Ahhhh I love this record. Good tune!

I can sort of smile reading this because I feel so understood now that I know the man I love is exactly this. And get this: his name is destined and it's Narcis :)) and when I met him, he said that he had tried to escape "the curse" of his name all his life, tried not to be a narcissist.

But he failed and he will not let me be the honest partner to set him straight. Because he thinks he knows everything. I am an empath, we are both highly sensitive, and he keeps blaming me for ruining his life, calling me a monster, not taking responsibility for any of his actions. He says that as an empath he feels all my pain, that he took it upon himself in order to understand it and help me and that my personal pain made him imbalanced.

But the fact is he has some form of PTSD, and so many repressed emotions for years, so many unresolved traumas that he refuses to face.

And I feel guilty and ashamed towards myself because I cannot seem to let go of him, because I feel that he is that person, my person, my family, my best friend. I have moments when I literally feel the friendship between our souls, beyond the divisions of human relationships...

Good luck, I mean it ;)

Aletheia,
I agree that there is a difference between sensing others' hidden feelings and being able to put oneself in their shoes. Also, please make it be known via an edit to your original article that covert narcissists are no less dangerous. Your words say both kinds of narcissists manipulate but it implies in other areas that coverts are categorically more mild, and, that overts tend to be 'thick-skinned'. This is not my experience and I think it sets up a dangerous mis-information.

Coverts are insidious, they are violent, cause physical harm, and they murder, just as the overts, but, are harder to catch.

One covert narcissist I knew, my mother, intentionally poisoned me.

Another, an almost-partner, preyed on me in a support group, used what I shared as a way to manipulate his way into my life, and pretended to be empathic to eventually touch me in ways unwelcome, harass me, siphon personal power from me, and more. I caught him quickly thanks to having been exposed to a nightmare of a mother.

The third covert narcissist I have known is a boss who I lived with as an at-home worker...she poisoned via smoke, obstructed my safe access to food or bathroom, and gaslit and sabotaged me, eroding my mental health after it had improved following the removal of the former two narcissists from my life.

There is nothing 'less dangerous' about these types.

Thank you for your time.

Jayson Tyler Yucha, you are 100% spot on. Someone with true NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) does NOT and will NEVER possess ANY form of empathy, and I too find the fact that this article even refers to the words "empath" and "narcissist" together not only completely factually incorrect, but also highly insulting to those who experienced abuse at the hands of someone with NPD.
While it is true that everyone has the potential to possess SOME narcissistic traits, yet not actually have NPD, so therefore can be helped to work on eliminating these negative traits, someone who has an actual diagnosis (or should have), cannot possible ever possess or understand any form of empathy whatsoever! You are indeed completely correct when you stated that NPD can NEVER be cured or "worked" on, and the main reason being that a true narcissist will never even admit that there is anything wrong with them in the first place, and therefore never seek or continue with any form of therapy to begin with. Indeed, many go undiagnosed as they will never even put themselves in a position to be evaluated by a professional to begin with, as they do not see they have any issues, rather everyone in the world but themselves have the problem! Lack of empathy is THE main trait examined when looking at this insidious disorder.
People with NPD use MANY dangerous, manipulative psychological tactics to reel in, manipulate, and destroy their victims, and due to the very nature of true empaths or people who are highly empathetic, they are the main target of the soul destroying ploys of the narcissist!
The person writing this article, by describing themselves as being an EX narcissist, and even further, and empathic narcissist, has done nothing with this article but prove that they are indeed a narcissist, and have such a highly inflated sense of self (another typical characteristic), that they not only believe they are no longer a narcissist (not possible if a true narcissist, but that they even possess any level of empathy at all (delusional view of self)!
As a survivor of severe narcissistic abuse at the hands of someone with NPD, this article is not only highly dangerous with the sheer amount of completely incorrect information about this insidious disorder, but also, extremely disrespectful to those poor "truly empathetic souls" who have had their lives, hearts, and very souls completely crushed and destroyed at the hands of these sick individuals.
I usually enjoy reading this blog, but this article truly makes me not only no longer wish to subscribe, but to take action to have this article removed, and a real and factual piece put in its place. Yes it may be someone's opinion, but when that opinion is used to express actual medical misinformation, it is not only in extremely bad taste, but also highly dangerous for those who may be seeking serious information on how to handle these people, and/or recover from the extreme damage that they would have inevitably caused in the lives of ALL of those in "their" world. Shame on you!

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings!!! But I do think this article is good and ment as self reflection... When you have been in the "net" of an narcissist/psychopath you have somehow "lost yourself" you have eliminated your SELF and adopted the miss treatment of yourself.... You have put aside all the alarm signals that your inner child gave you.... You have "accepted" punishment and torture... And put down all your boundaries.... You have completely lost all trust in yourself...

...But you have also received a "gift" a really tough GIFT to build yourself up from scratch to find your boundaries anew to find inner strength, peace and love and forgiveness... (This "gift" most "normal" people will say it's a curse) 😞 But it's in your power you can choose to use it or not... To take responsibility for yourself... To promise to love and protect your inner child and never let anyone lure you back into self destruction... (It's actually a kind of addiction for sensitive empath) (and a narcissistic one).... You need to realize that you have let yourself down not the "empty selv hating narcissist" but you yourself has done it... You can't look for salvation or blame outward only inwardly... You can't blame anybody for not loving you (not even your mother)... (Ups ya not an easy one.... ) If you can find love and empathy for your own inner self with all your faults and forgive yourself for being needy, dependent, longing for intimacy attention... etc. and learn to trust your instincts and your empathy anew then you can be free!!!! With all my love, Gitte

Forgot to say that you are in an tremendous pain and you need to let yourself grieve after being in a destructive relationship!!! Cry, write, scream 😉 It's ok it's really ok!!! Give yourself time... Time to grieve!!! just don't BLAME anybody for your pain.... Forgive yourself, embrace yourself ❤️ Oh and don't get stuck!!! You so easily get "stuck" on the everyday struggle.... the need for work, money, children.... Take time to grieve and look the pain in the eyes...flow... It's ok for children to see their parent sad.... Let them know how much you love them And you will see the light in the end of the tunnel...

Alicia, I'm sorry to hear that you perceive this article as an insult to what you have experienced. I can see that you're in a lot of pain and I hope I can clear a few things up.

When I write about "empathic narcissists" I am referring to a narcissist who believes themselves to be empathic. Please keep in mind that I am only writing about one type of narcissist here, the vulnerable or covert narcissist. There are also more extreme and violent narcissists that have traits which overlap with antisocial personality disorder and psychopathy -- I am not writing about these types of narcissists at all. Due to the sensitivity of vulnerable/covert narcissists, it is easy to idealize themselves as empaths (this is only one of many idealizations). Although this is a touchy subject, I believe it's important to explore any illusions we may or may not have about ourselves. While I may not have made myself clear (most empaths are fortunately empathetic), I hope this clears things up a bit. This article was written in the interests of self-exploration and growth, not as an actual medical diagnosis.

I'll add a disclaimer above to clarify this further.

All the best,

Luna

I agree with you and I also have to say that anyone who states that they have cured themselves of NPD without any outside help is narrcistic in itself. I too will no longer be reading Lonewolf articles due to the authors lack of insight on how this article would affect those of us that have been chronically abused by narrcisits. I see that many rewrites/changes have been made since this article was published. I daresay that this has been a learning experience for the author too. An apology would go a long way, but apparently that is not going to happen. My lesson has been learned. Moving on...

Wow

I have been reading this whole thread with much interest. I grew up with a narcissistic mother (not dangerous---more like a hypochondriac) My older sister is a bi-polar, rage-aholic, pathological liar with NPD. My step father was a raging alcoholic who was sexually, emotionally, mentally and physically abusive. I call him ass hole #2. Ass hole #1 was my real father who ran off with another woman when I was 6 mo. old.
But I digress.....
Needless to say I grew up with a lot of emotional problems and in my lifetime I attracted quite a few narcissists. I had a few relationships that were very abusive. Only one was physically abusive, but the others were emotionally and verbally abusive.
I spent 29 years being a drug addict and an alcoholic.
I am still an alcoholic, but have been clean & sober almost 20 years. Even in sobriety I manage to get into a relationship with someone with NPD. For 6 years till I finally left that relationship. I had a year of total depression as being in this type of relationship tends to suck the life out of you and all that's left is an empty shell.
It has been 6 years now since I left the relationship and it is also the first time I have been alone since I was 15. I have to say that I am happier than I have ever been but definitely wary of ever being in another relationship.
I have been in therapy since I was 3 years sober, so that's over 16 years. My therapist has really helped me a lot and I don't know if I would have been this far along without her.
Strangely enough, about 10 or 15 years before I went to this therapist, it turns out that my sister had gone to her "as a support to her significant other" (who was probably an emotional wreck from living with my sister, lol)
So my therapist knew all about my sister without me having to explain the in-explainable.
My point to writing this response is to say that I appreciate what Aletheia Luna has written because it opened my eyes a little further. The ideas were new to me, but I have long realized that there are many points on the spectrum of narcissism. One may be on the far left or the extreme right or at any point in-between.
I have always kind of thought that the point on the spectrum where narcissism crosses over into pathological narcissism is when 1) empathy is removed from the equation and 2) the possibility to change is no longer there because this is the core of who the person is.
Anyway, I appreciated the new perspectives and I realize that all these comments were written months ago, but maybe I wrote this as much for myself as for anyone else since it helped me to clarify this new information or perspective.

Thanks to all for their comments and vulnerability. It always makes me feel a closeness to those who have had similar experiences with narcissists....I have understanding for you and I know you understand me too.

Peace & Love to All

I am what this is, however you want to label it. Got bored about three paragraphs down. Bit like reading a Tarot card, fuck nows really init mate? You are all guess work really because you are not blessed like me.

If you want to know the raw truth then contact me and I will happily show you how good this is for me! Worse than you think and my disguises get me anything I want. I mean anything. My looks just aid me soo soo much, dumb fucks think I am innocent! I am so healthy and young looking. Why because I couldn't give a shit about IT whoever IT is, although no one really gets that. Even if I tell them straight, I have fucked their mind enough, hooked them enough that they don't even believe me! HAHA

My intelligence is way superior than most and even if they are smarter then I am better looking, more witty, more persistent in a way I know will weaken them day by day if I have to. I will win because I get how I am making them feel all along, even if it is nothing, I will sense that.

I make myself feel in thousands of different ways per hour. A million thoughts to guide me to what I want so bad that it is now a need. Will I win, yes! What do I want to win? Lol so many questions for you poor prey. So innocent, so caring.

Na, talk to me for the truth mate. It is much more closer to demonic possession than you ever can imagine. Which is why we are so fucking amazing in bed. Yeah we know all about pleasure and what our partners like/dislike. We will try hard to impress!

The scenario is that I might be talking about your partner. I may focused on and achieved. Nothing short of blowing their mind would do for me, must provide the best pleasure even if they are married with kids.

They will never look at their spouse again once I am done. They will be bored with them after one night with a me or any narc. Poor you haha, it drives me more! I love impact! I will find their deepest, even hidden desires.

goonaskmethen AT gmail DOT com

Fucking dare you. Ask the questions and I will answer, just to prove to myself you are no threat no matter how much information you share.

All you are doing is making innocent folk turn against innocent folk because of suspicion. An excellent environment for me. Thank you. IS HE A NARC? IS SHE A NARC?? Wonderful, "Clapping Hands" you can never win against narcs, ever! Even if we lose, you end up with nothing and the attempt teaches us better for the next. Even if we cry, we strengthen.

I am 35, beautiful male. Don't think I don't get attempts on me from other Narcs, they are just harder work and turn away. I try to get them to please me in a way I choose, but it doesn't always work, but with you guys. I need a new challenge, you are too easy. I am better at this than most, better at this game life has forced me to play.

For those who have suffer because of a narc, this is what I say..... Oh well, probably see ya again soon, if not then I will look around see what else I can find. You will never own me or my heart! Your not worth it, never was no matter what you thought.

The more you fuck with us the better. You do not know the truth, you do not know how deep this can go.

FYI : Edited for perfection

This dude sounds like one of the biggest pieces of shit I have come across..

You sound rediculous