That is CHADDIfication of History

So Goa inquisition never happened. Aurangzeb, Tipu Sultan, Brits never massacred people or never caused famine. Independence was solely won by Gandhi and Nehru Family.

Glory glory hallelujah, Sid Harth reincarnated as SiDevilIam.

Tgese people are distorting our colourful and varied history and culture. They are making Victorian prudes of us. These people are distorting Hinduism and our colourful heritage. Even without going all the way to the Kamasutra, here is what Swami Vivekananda wrote on beef - "There was a time in this very India when, without eating beef, no Brahmin could remain a Brahmin; you read in the Vedas how, when a Sannyasin, a king, or a great man came into a house, the best bullock was killed; how in time it was found that as we were an agricultural race, killing the best bulls meant annihilation of the race. Therefore the practice was stopped, and a voice was raised against the killing of cows."

please share the books/ history with us where it is written that Indians used to eat beef.

I go by Swami Vivekananda's assertion. He was a Vedic scholar. Credible sources of Swami Vivekanandas writings are readily available on the web. Please search.

Well it is no where written he was a credible source. He was a great man but for history one needs proof not assertions. His assertions on social values are great and should be followed, other then that when it comes to history, it is proved by geologist,, researchers overtime that assertions made earlier by people or scholars are often wrong.

NORTH POLE WAS IN BIHAR , ODISHA ?????!!!!!!
THEN HOW WAS THE EARTH ROTATING .
THIS ID DONKEY SCIENCE

You've heard of "continental drift"?

(nevermind, apparently RSS hasn't either).

No rotation. The earth is/was flat

"Our children have been reading history, which makes them feel humiliated of their past. We want a history which makes them feel proud as Indians," said Bal Mukund Pandey,"

In order to "feel proud as Indians' is to be proud about everything in India including her diversity, If being proud as an Indian only means being a proud Hindu then India is following the same path of Sinhalese Buddhist nationalism that contributed so much to the creation of the Hindu Tamil Tigers and that terrible war of 30 years.

Would pride get in the way of the integrity of India? it did with Sri Lanka it then can happen in a much more diverse nation like India where separatist movements only need more excuses.

Didn't pride already get in the way of integrity of India?

Creation of Pakistan was based on Kalifat movement (restoring caliphate -- of which there were several, all of which treated Jews/Christians/Parsis worse than Rome under Domitian) which was juxtaposed with restoration of Mughals (the little fact that Mughals destroyed themselves didn't seem to matter) in a form of Muslim pride (which contributed to Banglas splitting off, and to tension in current Pakistan).

What RSS (through poli-front BJP) is doing with this idea is basically aping something that's already gone awry -- and that, basing it upon a concept invented by the perps (the term "hindu" was invented by muslim invaders to refer to all natives of Sub-continent -- and most-current definition for census is a "leftover of nots", meaning it includes areligious:
* not Christian
* not Parsi
* not Buddhist
* not Sikh
* not Muslim
)

You want to deal with intolerance within the scope of Hindu sentiments then do so. Start with your own. Start by dismantling the most intolerant system in the world, the caste system. The reason you have to do that is if you do not you lose the moral ground to point to the intolerance inherent in Islam. You simply lose.
You want to deal with what the British Empire did? then do it with an open mind. You use that issue like a "battering ram" without reason and duck the truth then you end up paying for it. the world is watching and the world is not so forgiving. Never has.
My take:
If the Sepoys defeated the British East India company (before they formed an empire) the victory would have meant Muslim rule since the Mogul "kingdom" (empire was already destroyed by the Maratha, Jats and British a few decades earlier). The leaders would have gone back to what little is left and just within that region you call "India" (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh even including Nepal Bhutan and formerly Sikkim) would have ended in a more fierce years of incessant war.
The European powers with far better weapons (canons, repeating rifle, bombs, incendiary devices etc) would have included Great Britain, France, Holland, Belgium (they were terrible in Africa the Belgium colonial empire was one fo the most brutal), Tsarist Russia, the Austro Hungarian Empire (Germany) and even the nascent USA would have brought our artillery to the region of India to battle for territory and spoils. the carnage using such weapons (remember the Catholics were far worse than the Protestants as in Goa) would have ripped that region from Sri Lanka to Tibet, from Afghanistan to Southeast Asia to even China, apart. You talk of what carnage the Muslims did? look at what carnage the Europeans did in Europe? just in WW1 and 2. or in the 19th century wars. Whatever monuments you have now would have been demolished through war and religious intolerance. The "India" you live in is the result of that British Empire who gave that region the infrastructure (railways, telegraphs, newsprint, hospitals, government. legal system, roads, sewage, modern cities etc. the British did that for selfish reasons so they can move goods and services better but the end result was a unified India and then the formation of Pakistan which happened practically on the same day) BTW you will get this message but no one else will. going by the controller what I am writing is now referred to as "disinformation" and inappropriate for Indian forums. so much for Your India's freedom of speech. enjoy.

mr bernard for one you are right cast system to go, but did not you know yourself that these class distribution exist in all religions, be it islam , christian, sikh or anything. If you want a discussion on religion let us have that. You think british are superiors though they were not. If they created bullets than it is not a material which brings peace, it started a revolution of war material which led to nuclear bombs eventually. Just a one liner look at your own history. People generally like to comment on others without looking at there own origin.

Love to discus religion but I have done that before so many times. It take pages and pages of going back and forth. Shouldn't but it does. Caste system exists probably because there is some inherent use for it. great people and great movements have tried and failed. so then the question is why is it so relevant today? I do not know and even if I did I doubt anyone who can make a difference would even care.
Superiors:? Indians think they are. For example Indian commenters often state India never borrows anything but her foreign policy of procuring weapons is that it comes with the transfer of technology or in other words "You invent we take". if you look at it that way so did the British. they took what the Indians invented or created. Then why don't you call that "transfer of technology" too?
An old man's burden is often greater than a young man except when it comes to a soldier for on his (or her) shoulders rests the fate of a nation. Then the gun becomes invaluable for that soldier.
Most weapons if not all were invented for offensive reasons. When the nukes were invented they had no rival so they were invented as an offensive weapon and used against an enemy the US knew could not fend. Now it is defined both ways.

nicely written however why so much statements and assertions. I myself don't believe we are superior and someone else is inferior. The moment we start thinking like that it in itself create a divide. Everyone is unique and there qualities are unique to them. As for rhetoric and combination of old man's saying if everyone starting believing in peace and stops fighting between themselves weapons are not at all required. There are a lot of things to pursue in life rather then fighting for petty issues. A great thing which was said by Swami vivekanand which I do believe and follow. This makes a difference in following what is actually right rather then just taking a reading on the wall and aspire it to be true. Thanks.

Thanks for sharing your personal beliefs. After reading your comment I personally believe it is something universal among man to want peace but never actually sustain it. From internal conflicts to that between people, to that between groups to that between nations conflicts continue. how we deal with it is another issue. that saying of an old man is mine and may have its flaws as i just came up with it to make a point.
The thoughts of Vivekananda have shaken the West ever since he made his speech in Chicago about Hinduism way back then.

From the history books remove Sikandar mahan, akbar mahan, put Maharana Partap, shiva Ji, Prithvi Raj Chuhan, Rani Lakshmi bai, swami dayananda etc.

Denouncing British and promoting the modern inventions to Vedic is preposterous. The Greatest progress that human civilisation has made is due to western civilisation .All agricultural industrial and Information technology and sociological progress is due to them. This is acknowledged by all human beings irrespective of culture race and religion. When politicians run out of ideas they turn to religion. Eventually a politicians success hinges on performance not on religious rhetorics. If Hinduism is so great why did we lose the empires from Iran to Indonesia?

what is so wrong in denouncing british, they did not went away just by themselves, if we have martyrs who fought against them and leaders who born before british and tried to unite the country we call India, then what is wrong if our generation reads about them first. Its known that west gave technology upgrade but that does not mean we follow them everywhere like slaves.

If Hinduism is so great why did we lose the empires from Iran to Indonesia?

It was the fault of secular congress, Mahatma Gandhi, Indira Gandhi and martians who hate India haha

It pains me to see the ignorant mouthing their crap all around when it should be left to historians and archaeologists to decide the truth. As was the case with Ram Temple.

As far as the writer is concerned , go through this list.

1. Ramayana and Mahabharata have enough proof of being social, economic and historic epics.
2. Cars/planes are disputed.
3. Sarasvati was in fact a river referred to as Ghaggar-Hakra River which dried out just before the end of early vedic period when Indus gained prominence in vedic literature.
4. Out of India theory does not say north pole was in india, it states Aryan people originated in India.
5.India is definitely most ancient civilization on the planet, older than the Sumerians and Egyptians. Even the Indus valley civilization which is from comparatively recent history, was many times bigger than the sumerian and egyptian ones together.
6. The script of Easter islands is exactly same as that of Indus Valley. wonder who were those people??
7. Decimal system, concept of zero and infinity were ofcourse indian inventions. The west came to know them through the arabs who studied in our universities. This Al Khwarizmi was simply passing to west what he got from India.
8. Qutub minar was constructed using the ruins of the temple which was destroyed on its place as "mentioned by Muslim scholars of the time in their writings".

Easter Island script was exactly the same as Harappan? No, that is rongo rongo. You are rongo-rongo. Get it? Rongo-rongo.

Again, being the most advanced in history is always used as a justification to be zero today. Stop it.

Ye zindagi kisi manzil pe ruk nahin sakti,
Har ik maqaam se aage qadam barha ke jiyo,
Na sar jhuka ke jiyo, aur na moonh chhupa ke jiyo.

Take it easy, Harappan script was proved to be Akkadian (language of Babylon prior to Chaldaean/Aramaic) back in 1997 -- and could easily have been the script of Rapa Nui (Genesis 9).

my comments are marked as spam !!! why?

i want to know what proof they have for this aryan invasion theory? there is no need to accept right wing myths..but thats no excuse for continuing to accept & teach the same incorrect history forced on us by colonial british.. the colonial masters had an agenda...but what isthe agenda of sickulars? whats their problem?

& i agree with the theory that preaching of non violence by ashoka weakened north india...
yeah ..all the border kings became non-violent buddhists & let islamic invasion happen.. whats wrong in telling the truth? they failed to adhere to their kshatriya dharama & opened door for invaders..

There is overwhelming proof that all humans are descended from one band of humans who originated in the Rift Valley area of East Africa. Our genes prove it. Even many preferences that all humans have relating to the environment prove it. This is something the Europeans *hated* when it was discovered because it said that even they were black Africans under the skin. It is something Chinese hated because they do not want to accept they descended from Africans. Indians are no exception. Everyone in the world is an invader at one point or another. The new genetic evidence in India indicates four distinct invasions.

First, there is the invasion of Negritos. These are people who look like Jarawas in the Andamans. All of us carry their genes also. When they came the Ice Age was in force, sea levels were lower. The Veddas of Sri Lanka, the Jarawas on Andaman literally walked to those places and then got cut off as sealevels rose. Second, the Australoids came. These people spoke Austro-Asiatic languages like Munda. They looked like Santals. We have their genes also. Third came Dravidians, almost certainly from Iran. They were also almost certainly very light skinned. The modern Brahui who live in Balochistan, East Iran, Turkmenistan and Afghanistan are Dravidian speakers. Iran's language before Persian was Elamite. In fact, the ancient name of that entire region was Elam. There are strong links between Elamite and Dravidian and they may actually be the same lannguage family. The main marker of this is the J2 genetic haplotype, which occurs in South Indian Brahmins and Iranians at high frequencies. It is at half their frequency in North Indians. Fourth came Aryans from Central Asia. There they split and scattered in multiple directions, spreading Indo-European languages. The R1a genetic haplotype is the marker for this. There is some evidence that these Aryans were actually less light-skinned than the original Dravidians. All Indians, Pakistanis and Afghans are various mixes of these. Australoid skeletons have been found in Afghanistan and East Iran.

So, this is the problem. First, we had Socialists, who had a simple view of Dravidian vs Aryan, which suited their divide and rule needs. This theory is completely and clearly wrong. The genetics prove it wrong. Then, the Hindutva group has this multiple origin theory about humans sprouting independently in India completely separate from other humans in the world. This is also completely wrong. The actual truth is being revealed by scientific research. We need textbooks to teach this, and modify it as it develops and more things are found. We should have the Four Invasion Theory being taught in India right now.

BTW if you are a Dravidian Nationalism or Aryan Invasion Theory supporter, you should really look into what is being called the Brahui Surprise. For the longest time, it was thought that the Dravidian-speaking Brahui of Balochistan/Turkmenistan were considered to be somehow migrants from Southern India. Then came the shock as genetic analysis was done. They are actually more closely connected to Georgians, Armenians and other people from the Caucasus mountains than their surrounding Baloch and East Iranian populations are. They are lighter-skinned also and form part of the Elite population in this part of Balochistan.

The other shocker was for South Indian Brahmins. They are J2-prominent, just like Western Iranians, Eastern Arabs, Armenians, Azeris, Chechens. And unlike North Indians, Afghans, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Russians who are very R1a heavy.

Don't know, where you got your information. There is a genetic connection between Eurasia and India - both north and south India but, India's caucasoidness is much older than supposed Aryan invasion - up to 50,000 years. Some migration did happen but it was only a trickle which didn't change India culturally as Aryan invasion theory postulates.Genetically, there is no evidence that 4000-2500 years ago Arayans came to India.

Orion, India's caucasoidness cannot be 50,000 years simply because there was no caucasoidness in the world 50,000 years ago. The first ever blue-eyed man discovered is only 7,000 years ago and even he had not had enough time for his skin to have become lighter. He was black skinned. Caucasoid people are less than 10000 years old.

It is very likely that Eurasia and India had an echo effect. Almost certainly blood group B originated in India. India has the highest incidence. Western Europe, the Americas, Australia, Southern Africa natively have next to no B. Anyone with B is partly Indian at some point. It is likely that people migrated to India, then to Eurasia, back to India, back to Eurasia and so on. Northern India is too connected to the rest for this to have been a fully insulated spot. So, tracking down what is Northern Indian versus Central Asian is a fools errand. But there is no question that Indo-Europeans invaded India and not just India but also Iran, Italy, Greece and other regions. All these areas have non-Indo-European ancestral languages. Elamo-Dravidian in India and Iran, Minoan/Eteocretan in Greece, Etruscan in Italy, Iberian in Spain, Pictish in the Britain, the Saami in Scandinavia. Across the board, a switch to Indo-European languages occurred over a 2000 year period. This was partially mimicked later when a number of countries switched to Turko-Mongol languages within a 500 year period in 1000-1500AD in Central Asia and Anatolia. In fact, the effect was so powerful that even our own languages are loaded with mongol/turkic words: chhatri (umbrella), chakoo (knife), naukar (servant), topi (cap), hawa (air). The Tarim Basin, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, North Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkey were all Indo-European speaking. This turned them ALL into Turco-Mongol. The steppes are just a very efficient transmission mechanism for ideas, genes and language. Earlier, Buddhism had traveled exactly this way from India as far as Kalmykia. It is now the ONLY Buddhist nation in Europe.

Very informative posts. Can you give references to books?

Of course:

- "Was this the first blue-eyed man? 7,000-year-old DNA reveals European and African traits" - search for it - there are hundreds of articles on it.
- "7,000-Year-Old Human Bones Suggest New Date for Light-Skin Gene " - from livescience, nice & readable article
- "The Puzzle of Proto-Elamite" - search for it - it talks about ancient Iran and possible linkages to Dravidian. If you search for the Behistun Inscriptions, you will see the bilingualism in Iran between Elamite and the newer Indo-European arrival. There is a LOT of stuff on this.
- "ancient Iran :: The Elamites -- Encyclopedia Britannica" - this has information on Elam. But there is also a tonne of other info on it. You can actually visit Elamite sites (ruins and such).
- "Brahui are something old, not new" - search for it. Dravidian Brahui speakers are genetically less Indian than Afghans and Balochis - "The Brahui are "less South Asian" broadly speaking than Pathans, let alone Sindhis. This is not easy to explain if the group arrived from deeper in India ~1,000 years ago."

You ought to be able to search for all this stuff. Please let me know what specifically you want references for.

Thx a lot. Enough to explore for now

You're welcome. The IE languages themselves are fascinating in how closely they knit. For example, Persian and Sanskrit are just humongously close:

Bhag(van) + Sthana = Bagastan = Bahisht (Paradise in Farsi) - this is where the name of the Behistun Inscription of Iran comes from

har (green/gold color) = zar (gold in Persian)

Ahuti / Huta (devotion, divine object) = Khuda (Persian for God)

Sasya (Greenery eg in Vande Mataram, Sasya Shyamalam Mataram) = Sabzya =Sabzi (Green/Vegetable in Persian)

Jan (Person/Being) = Jaan (Life/Being in Persian)

Kshetra = Shehtra = Shehr (City or Region in Persian)

Mrig (Deer, Animal, Beast) = Murgh (Bird, Beast)

Actually, Hindu zealots who fight against Persian are fighting against what is probably the MOST Sanskritic language in existence (although descended from a Sister, not directly from Sanskrit). If a word in Persian does not have a Sanskrit equivalent, it is probably not an original Persian word (borrowed from Arabic or something). If a Sanskrit word does not have a Persian or Ancient Persian equivalent, it is probably not an original Sanskrit word (borrowed from Dravidian or something).

What crap. your knowledge of persian is zilch and your matching of words from Sanskrit with Persian gives me a feeling that pappu has higher IQ than you have.

LOL. That was a heartfelt, though random and slightly deranged, outburst. My very best to you. When you come to your senses, please search for "Sanskrit Persian Cognates".

Last thing on this I will say. It is actually shocking when you hear some Persian words from Iranians. For example, the prevalent word for question in Hindi, Urdu and Persian is 'sawaal', which is from Arabic. The word for "to question" in Persian? Porsidan. Prashan, basically. The languages are littered with stuff like this. Tens of thousands of these. It's crazy.

Yes, in last 800 years, muslims brought in a lot of arabic, persian, turkish vocabulary into daily use language. AND that is how urdu was born.

Pure Hindi has its own words.

Now a days, English (specially American english) is replacing persian/turkish/arabic words.

Persian and Sanskrit have been exchanging words forever. There are several Sanskrit words in Persian too. For example, the Persian word for Ape is Kapi, which is a confirmed loanword from Sanskrit. Arabic and Turkish are from two other families, but Sanskrit and Persian have a very close relationship.

Yes, persian grammar is very similar to Sanskrit, however, the origin of words (mostly nouns, adverbs and pronouns) and constructs of sentences differ significantly. The roots of words are also widely different from Sanskrit.
Since India had a lot of interaction with its neighboring countries (now pakistan, and Afghanistan were part of India till about one and a half century ago), Persia was a close economic and cultural neighbour; lot of vocabulary was exchanged with it.

Chitra, this is not correct. Persian and Sanskrit are not alike due to proximity. They are alike because they were the same language (Proto-Indo-Iranian) that split into two dialects. I have been researching this and that proximity was astounding. For example, Avestan (the earliest form of Persian known) and Vedic Sanskrit were mutually comprehensible. Almost all the old Hindu religious terms have Persian equivalents: yajna/yasna, ahuta/khuda, asura/ahura, deva/daeva, sarasvati/harahvati, soma/haoma. All terms for family are: bhratr/biradar, duhitr/dukhtar, pitr/pidar, matr/madar.

Beware! Age of reason has come to an end!

Yes, I too have felt the stirrings from Mordor.

...and I am Sid Harth
Sunday, December 7, 2014
Of Zero and Golwalkar's Stupid Cildren

gosumercogitodotblogspotdotcom/

...and I am Sid Harth

Dude you are obsessed with yo name.

HT continues to publish nonsense and half truths

My only comment on comments below is that, if SiDeVillam wants to either support, counter or have a different say about the subject, he should write an article in HT instead of filling up the space meant for comments. I would have loved to hear his views, but the way it is presented at present makes it impossible to read.

Dear friends, the tyranny of the british imperialists was worse than the tyranny of the muslim invaders. The later only invaded our territory the former (the british) brutalised our mind along with our land. The seculars, liberals and intellectuals are all regents and agents of the british. Thru them the british hegemony and imperialism still continues. Let's free our mind. Remember India was once a land so coveted by the entire world, that it was in the process of seeking it that today's america got discovered. Let these intellectuals tell us about a single other land that was so coveted by the world as was this marvelous land of ours. It was not for nothing that it was called a golden bird and a wonder of the world. these epithets are not myths.

Include christianisation.

Where is the myth in saying that the Zero was discovered in India? And that the decimal system and the modern numerical system (0-9) originated in India? It is a fact. Self hating seculars cannot bear to feel pride in their country and in themselves. Their joy is in eternal self flagellation. Disgraceful fellows.