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nvrbl • 8 years ago

How can 'Randians" have a community? The whole concept is to only do for yourself. A community will not thrive if everyone is committed to selfishness.

The Daily Bell • 8 years ago

Is it Randians? Are you sure?

nvrbl • 8 years ago

I don't know what they call themselves.

The Daily Bell • 8 years ago


nvrbl • 8 years ago

Well, they call their little utopia Galts Gulch so they seem to be pretty big fans of Ayn Rand. This Ken Johnson would have been considered a "superman" by Ayn Rand's standards, a man with no consideration for societal norms but only for what he wants and desires.

The Daily Bell • 8 years ago

No need for you to contribute snide comments to an already overloaded thread. We'll do you a favor and remove them if you continue.

nvrbl • 8 years ago

I do not think I was being snide. I sincerely think that Ayn Rand would admire this man for all that he has accomplished for himself. I will go away now. No need to take offense. It seems that an exchange of ideas is not welcome.

The Daily Bell • 8 years ago

You are contributing sarcasm, not ideas.

nvrbl • 8 years ago

I asked a valid question. The "philosophy" of Ayn Rand does not support the concept of community. Furthermore, isn't a homeowners association with accompanying rules anti libertarian? I would never buy a home that was in a homeowners association, but that is just me. To each his own. I do not know how I ended up on your site but quite honestly you seem to be pretty thin skinned. I do not know why you seemed to take offense to the word Randian. It was not used as a perjorative. I also do believe that Ayn Rand would consider Ken Johnson a "superman". I was not being sarcastic. At any rate, you did not address my valid questions but have instead made this about semantics which is fine, but I am not interested in conversing on this level.

The Daily Bell • 8 years ago

You have moved from being sarcastic to being disingenuous. Congratulations. We'll let those reading this thread decide for themselves on the motivation and tone of your "conversations."

nvrbl • 8 years ago

First, I want to apologize for being flippant about the situation with GGC. I ended up here from another article about GGC and I did not realize that you were one of the people swindled in the deal. I am sincerely sorry for anyone going through this.
I was intrigued by this story because I am wondering what about this project is libertarian. It seems that GGC adds another layer of rules and regulations above and beyond those of the government of Chile. Wouldn't it be more libertarian to buy your own property and not deal with another layer of government in the form of the GGC homeowners association? For instance, I read that people would be required to buy all of their seeds from GGC. I cannot imagine anyone telling me that I am not allowed to acquire seeds from anyone but them. You would have to pay dues ( taxes ) to maintain the roads and common areas. Other than everyone sharing the same libertarian political views, I do not understand what is libertarian about this project.
Now I have read that the FBI in Chile and also the FBI in the United States is investigating this.

sweptarea • 8 years ago

"Fast forward through many unpleasant details... The man was paid off."

End of story - NO SALE. People of spine do not pay off swindlers. GGC has a shortage of leadership character and I've deleted the site's bookmark. Suggest you do the same...

Guest • 8 years ago

Gee maybe living in a civilized society under a government elected by the people isn't such a bad idea.

TruthHurts2013 • 8 years ago

I think they misunderstand John Galt. Ayn Rand is all about capitalism and making a buck without a damn for anyone else. This project just seems to be some sort of far-left socialist utopia. To quote 'Atlas Shrugged' - "I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." I applaud your wanting to live in this type of community, don't get me wrong, but to name it after John Galt I think is a serious misunderstanding of the book.

okojo • 8 years ago

It is an affinity fraud. It really has nothing to do with any ideology, except it preyed on Libertarians who were seduced by the sales pitch. After I read this sales pitch to invest in the "organic farm", it is just a gimmick and wishful thinking. The numbers are way too optimistic, besides it doesn't factor in transports cost to overseas market, (every market outside of Chile will be an overseas market) shipping, and fuel costs will eat up huge amount of profit margin if there is any profit margins..


It is just an affinity fraud, that some Libertarians got suckered in. Being gyped by a fraud is never fun, and I know people tried to do due diligence. However, this is a problem when the alleged fraud is thousands of kilometres away, in a different country and in a different culture..

Saying all of this, (Which won't make me popular) any updates of what is going on at GGC/La Lepe?, (It should change its name to La Lepe, which is appropiate)

Nick Sanders • 8 years ago

Ken sounds like a true Randian hero.

TruthHurts2013 • 8 years ago

Yes you are correct.

Gabriel Scheare • 8 years ago

As some of you already know, I'm working on another (much smaller) community project in Chile. I would very much like to interview people involved with the GGC story who have wisdom to share that would help us to ensure that mistakes of the past are not repeated. The more critical, the better. Just message me if you'd be willing to contribute. I'd like to make a video afterwards where the interviews are all combined and released as an educational montage of sorts. Thanks in advance!

Political Atheist • 8 years ago

good lord, you're a twit.

mayalibre • 8 years ago

I wouldn't mind hearing more about the conscience angle of Libertarianism. I thought Ayn Rand's philosophy was summarized pretty well in "The Virtue of Selfishness", where others are not your concern, and you are not theirs. The only thing each person has to do is act in their own interest, and the effect of those actions on others is of no consequence. It seems the shysters here acted in accordance with that philosophy, no? Caveat emptor. So I'm sorry for your losses, but I'm confused about how an ethical concern for others or a community (collective), squares with a selfish, individualistic ideal. It seems to me that when people become more separated and less accountable, the opportunities for crime and predatory fraud rise, and the response of the larger society will naturally be to create MORE laws and regulations to mediate those effects. So in a way, increasing selfishness CREATES the reaction of increasing governance. Conversely, strong, ethical, interdependent communities (e pluribus unum) have the greatest resilience and the least need for Big Brother (think Switzerland) -- but they are not Libertarian.

It's also kinda pie-in-the-sky to think that a nation-state will justly handle the transfer of property to a group that wants to reject the nation-state and set up its own "free zone" don't you think? How do you propose getting out of paying Chilean taxes, say, or conforming to local environmental regulations? Does Chile allow unlimited private ownership of weapons? Fascinating story.

sweptarea • 8 years ago

Less fascinating than sad. That there are so many gullible people ready to swallow the 'plan' hook, line, and sinker.
No water rights ? What in hell were you people thinking... ?

SecularAmerican • 8 years ago
So in a way, increasing selfishness CREATES the reaction of increasing governance.

Well done. And surprise! The author can't fathom what you're talking about. Which I think sums up how intellectually shallow ancaps and minarchists are.

I've always held to the firm belief that the very first thing a successful libertarian/anarcho-capitalist colony would do is create their own government. Of course they'd try to pretend it was voluntary for a while. That canard (it's voluntary, why don't you leave) begins to lose its luster after the first generation of born-into-captivity liberty-spawn start to realize the rank irony.

Ernie Garrett • 8 years ago

Oh, there's someone who can't fathom things. His name is "SecularAmerican." You have never paid the slightest attention to the other point of view, and on top of it I wouldn't be surprised if you have no understanding of economics either. You're a disposable idiot and hack who is repeating a shallow, childlike version of what someone else told you for a political philosophy. Worthless.

wendymcelroy • 8 years ago

I have no idea what you are talking about. No one was setting up a free zone or expecting Chile to hand over sovereignty. I don't even know where you gleaned that idea or why. Certainly not from my article. Equally, I don't understand your interpretation of Rand. She never said anything remotely like what you are attributing to her. I am afraid we have no basis for a productive discussion. But thanks for posting.

fox_fog • 8 years ago

Sorry about your loss Wendy but if you're honest with yourself, you've probably come to the realization that strict self-interest is a game also known as "screw your neighbor." The name of the community should have tipped you off. The developers done right by Ayn-they've made bank on their self-interest, right?

wendymcelroy • 8 years ago

No, what you are saying is a misrepresentation of the Objectivist philosophy and Rand. Both put a high premium on honesty. And I was looking forward to actively cooperating with neighbors in a community. I had already made a commitment to buy eggs from a neighbor who liked to raise chickens and I was planning to give free classes on writing. The name "Galt's Gulch" indicated people's desire to live in greater freedom with like-minded individuals. That was the dream. Not selfishness in the sense you are using the word. Peace.

AbInitio • 8 years ago


In her own words: Rand considered altruism, or any sort of self-sacrifice "evil" (5:34 in the above interview).

...so yeah, she said a lot that was "remotely like" what mayalibre attributed to her. There was a reason she was Anton LaVey's biggest influence... Hail Satan! ;)

PTTurboe . • 9 years ago

It amazes me that so many people think Libertarians are against any form of government? No courts, etc? Where in the world does this thinking come from? Libertarians believe in "limited government". Not in "no government".

Get a clue or stop calling yourselves Libertarians.

Also - on another note - anyone doing a real estate development in Latin America and pricing the land in ACRES is an idiot or poorly capable of doing said development. Latin America prices land in hectares in acres. Get with the program and use local measurements at the very least so you do not look like stupid gringos....

Brad R • 9 years ago

Actually, the land was being developed and priced in hectares. In materials promoting the project to North Americans, that was converted to acres. (Thus the unusual lot sizes, "1.25 acres" being really half a hectare.)

PTTurboe . • 8 years ago

Still should price it in hectares. .5 hectare is 1.2356 acres. Like I said if you are going to own property in LA you need to get the terminology correct. Especially since they wanted to get Chileans involved.

Did the contracts spell out hectares? Were they in Spanish?

Hope you guys get this all worked out. I am kind of shocked Johnson has not opened up and stepped down.

Good luck...

Terry Hulsey • 9 years ago

Frankly, I was giving it a year before I expected to read this article.

Nevertheless I am surprised. I had expected a spew of bile that inevitably issues from improperly coddled utopians. But this revelation of the real workings of Galt's Gulch Chile is honest and -- given Wendy's determination to see it through -- quite courageous. I sincerely wish that the enterprise and everyone associated with it do succeed.

KIR • 9 years ago

To date, there has not been a single lawsuit filed by any of the defrauded investors.

okojo • 9 years ago

I still think they wanted to see the books and an total accounting of the money, before there they filed lawsuits, or most likely a criminal investigation. Some of these holding companies, mainly with a property owner and his daughter (and using her bank account, as a deception) , looks criminal in nature

wetcasements • 9 years ago

"suffice it to say there is basis for various lawsuits; some are being pursued "

So Libertarians rely on goverment officials and institutions like judges and courts in their time of need?


Ernie Garrett • 8 years ago

Libertarians, as well as minarchists, believe that courts are a perfectly justifiable governmental function. You don't have the slightest fu--ing clue what libertarianism is, and probably any other political philosophy outside what your Mommy and Daddy told you.

Sean Ryan • 9 years ago

Jesus Christ…another Lefty troll who thinks he's oh-so-clever…

Daily Bell…you should be banning these a-holes on the spot...

sweptarea • 8 years ago

Yes, yes. Ban what you do not like or agree with. By all means, do it !

Guest • 8 years ago
Sean Ryan • 8 years ago

Lefty sites like HuffPo ban dissent of ANY kind (esp. intelligent dissent)…IMO the DB should ban OBVIOUS trolling efforts by Lefty a-holes who are bringing nothing to the discussion.

Guest • 8 years ago
Sean Ryan • 8 years ago

Dissent is fine, but the Leftists on here are straight-up trolling…and DB is more concerned that these POS's are treated w/respect than in keeping this comments section intelligent...

Guest • 8 years ago
Sean Ryan • 8 years ago

Well, DB took me to task for calling the Lefties names…so it WAS done to me.

Brad R • 9 years ago

"Minarchist" libertarians and objectivists do, yes. See my previous comment: http://thedailybell.com/edi...

julek • 9 years ago

I can't help but feel that by taking legal recourse you're letting down our movement... A true libertarian would never fall back to the government when such a thing happened. Doing so is an implicit admission of failure and you have immeasurably hurt are cause by doing so.

Ernie Garrett • 8 years ago

"A true libertarian" has no problem with a government-run court system, derelict. You're thinking of an Anarchist, and even they believe in means of objective conflict resolution. It looks like your mouth and your fingers get a lot more exercise than your eyes and your brain.

wendymcelroy • 9 years ago

I am not suing. I am not using the legal system. Please stop making offensive assumptions. Peace.

Political Atheist • 8 years ago

so you prefer to lose your money to a scam and remain fateful to the person that screwed you over.
good plan...good plan.
you libretardians are a gullible lot.

Sean Ryan • 9 years ago

A true libertarian (as if you're qualified to make this determination!) should let themselves be defrauded?

Pretty stupid comment...

wendymcelroy • 9 years ago

Sean...you have been a staunch on this thread and I appreciate it. I'm pursuing redress in a lot of ways that I think are more effective than the court system. I know they are more ethical. Don't worry...I'm not letting Ken J. off the hook. Indeed, I'm pretty much the only one who has painfully pierced his armor to date and I did so by the power of the press, the power of exposure. Others are going the legal route...and I wish them well because they are good people and they are using an approach consistent with their values. In any case, thank you Sean.