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Weston O'Connor couldn't have said it better -- thanks.
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Hold out! The lord will provide. Stand for our faith strong and proud no matter the punishments. These people are obviously instagators, why else would a non christian want a christian wedding, except to sue and get money or to force you from God?

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"These people", Weston O'Connor?

Who are you inventing?

Did you READ the story?
.

These two guys make more sense that most, a breath of fresh air...Legendary gay designers oppose gay marriage, gay parenting and surrogacy. Domenico Dolce and Stefano Gabbana, founders of the eponymous fashion house, have come out strongly against gay marriage, the notion of gay families, and the use of surrogacy to procreate.

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Are you nuts, @the_lion?

It doesn't matter what anybody else says or who they 'are'.

No one has superior rights over anyone else's life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, equal rights, equal protection, basic human right to partner, marry, and raise a family.

Funny, though that you're Dolce and Gabbana fanatic -- that's sweet.
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hey petee... I admire the fashion... just can't swing the $500+ for a fitted shirt... and I believe they have it right when it comes to marriage and family... same-sex should not try to be something it is not... it is abnormal...

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Yeah, we're read your baseless opinion, the_lion -- funny how you now claim to take moral advice from an unmarried couple, gay at that ...

... while totally ignoring the moral message from married straights on this issue.

The Constitution not only says nothing about excluding 'abnormal', but Amendments specifically include 'abnormal'.

Your whining is baseless from legal and religious viewpoints.

You are blowing in your own wind.
.

Hardly taking moral advice, just agreeing with their assessment on what a construct of marriage and family should be...

Constitution does just two things: Establish a federal
government for the United States of America and Delegate to the federal government certain, limited (and numerated) powers. The Constitution does not give you rights. The founders considered your rights to be "God-given" or
"natural rights”, you are born with all your rights.

Your dumb donkey butt idea that same-sex marriage is some kind of natural right is completely laughable. Right up there with you up-voting yourself on your own posts.

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the_lion,

You disagree with our founding documents.

You disagree with your God.

Your disagree with me.

You disagree with yourself.

There's hardly a need for me to argue with you in this thread when you're doing such an effective job of self annihilation.
__________

To wit:

The Declaration of Independence mentions that each individual's unalienable inborn rights come from "their creator", not as you claim the founders considering "God given" or "natural rights".

Equal, too.

You forgot "equal", from the same sentence in our founding documents.

Equality is important.

Equally important.

It means that your rights are equal to mine.

And visa versa.

Yet you consider some people less-than equal in denying them equal respect for their equally inborn, equally unalienable equal rights equally endowed by their equal creator to equally marry and equally build a family with equivalent consideration from their equal society and equal government.

Further, that you consider my use of the Disqus voting as a thread reading placemark, worthy of your comment, let alone your denigration, says -w-a-y- more about your inability to consider everyone equal than it says anything about me.

If you can't even accept a petty, trivial difference like the use of markers in a web chat, how can anyone expect you to be a fully participating citizen in a complex, diverse society where you are called on to ignore or celebrate differences as equal, and never, never, never to discriminate?

Ever.

Even the 'ministers' in the opening story figured out how to get along in an egalitarian society, by changing their business license from public to private.

And yet you keep fighting against your equal fellow citizen.

Any possible, legal reason?
.

Hey Petee… stay focused. The only thing you have right in your rambling tirade is that “Yes… I disagree with you.” Your “The
Constitution not only says nothing about excluding 'abnormal', but Amendments specifically
include 'abnormal’. “, is inane. Have you ever read the amendments?

The idea that homosexual relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships is about as backwards as you can get. Homosexual relationships are just bad counterfeits of the intended heterosexual relationships.
Left to their natural state, homosexual relationships are nothing more
than the misuse of the human physiology to get sexual gratification mixed in with some abnormal desire of homosexual love.

What are rights Petee? I hope you agree that a “right” is a moral or
legal entitlement to have or do something. You think people in homosexual relationships
have the right to “marriage”, that is no different than saying people that are
into polygamy, incestuous or pedophile relationships have the right to “marriage.” If you can redefine “marriage” to include homosexual relationships you cannot possibly deny marriage to those loving couples, (or groups), who just want equal treatment under your idea of equal rights.

You are so lost, the truth could kick you in the shins and you would not know it. If you cannot fathom that homosexual
relationships are just plain screwed up given the biological facts of life… you are dazed and confused.

Something is legal if not prohibited by law. Laws like people, change. Right and wrong never changes. Homosexual relationship can never be right, they are just an imitation of the real thing, it is a biological fact.

As for your narcissistic habit of upvoting yourself… I just wanted
you to get help for that disorder, it really gets in the way of me taking you
seriously.

You promote slavery. A person should not be forced to do work for another! You think business has any relevence here? What difference would it make if we forced african americans to pick cotton as slaves because they owned a business picking cotton, or if they worked at mcdonalds? Its slavery, and its slavery of the most detestable kind! Forcing a man not only to work, but to work doing something that morally goes against his every fiber!

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Interesting way of looking at it, Weston O'Connor.

But wrong.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything.

Surprised by her 'contract' with the people of her state, she wants out.

The fine is her way out.

That's the cost of reneging on her promise to serve all of we-the-people of the general public that licensed her business.

She does not have to do anything - no forced labor or unpaid labor involved.

She could have stayed home and never opened a business.

She could have worked for someone else.

Or opened a business that does offer goods and services that she might feel uncomfortable selling to "some people".

Where's the slavery in that?

If she sold newspapers, would she object to selling them to someone on the way to a gay wedding, happy to see the wedding announcement in the paper?

If so, then she further limits her participation in a free marketplace.

A well regulated free marketplace.

A marketplace here at the service and license of we-the-people.

Where, if you want to open a public-facing business, but you want to deny your otherwise publicly available goods and services to an entire class of we-the-people from the general public who respond to your advertising and come in to buy, oh PLEASE don't claim it's slave labor to actually sell to me as you promised.

Again, it's not slave labor for her to fulfill her voluntary licensed promise.
.

But the thing is his/her contract is required. There is no freedom to just marry people for money, and not be licensed. It should be her freedom to, but it is not, so she/he got the liscense. She is stuck on one of two paths legally,

Marry the people in her definition of marriage, and the people who arent in her definition of marriage,
Or

Not marrying anyone while putting food on the table.

A person shoild be able to exclusively perform christian weddings, and not perform other weddings, or be forced to. And likewise for muslim/jewish/athiest or whatever.

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Weston O'Connor,

There is no legal support for your self-defined religious preference for whom a public-facing business can discriminate against.

Also, there is no religious support, considering the gay, married Christians, Muslims, Jews, and atheists.

This is not a Christians-versus-gays thing.

This is a bigots-versus-non-discrimination thing.

And, no, in America, a public-facing business doesn't get to discriminate and pick their customers -- it's come one, come all, from all of we-the-people.

If you have a preference for another way of building a society, other than inclusive of everyone, I'm sure there are countries where you're exclusive attitude would be welcome -- North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Russia, China not so much, as there are some inroads for gay rights and inclusiveness there.
.

What does them being/not being a church have to do with anything? Im talking about forcing a man to work against his will.

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Crack that whip!

Oh, wait a minute.

They promised to do the work.

They promised to offer services to everyone.

Then reneged.

And in fear of being fined, they changed their business license from public to private.

Where's the slave labor, eh what?
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Mmy problem is with the laws. A person has freedom. Yes they chose to work, but they were forced to sign the business liscense, or face auditing. There is no route for them to be free, and make a living.. can you really count havibg freedom, as truly being free, if you cant also earn money to eat?

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"... Pay the Lord ! ..."
.

Ted Cruz introduces bill that surrenders the fight for a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage and will ensure that most states will continue to accept same sex marriage!

Normally I wouldn't care if the State issues a piece of paper calling a same sex union a "marriage". But if Americans are going to use same sex marriage as a stick to punish Christians for believing the Bible then I am all for it.

After all there would be no Elane Photography Case if those two delicious Lesbian Brides had simply said "We will get it someone else since you want to discriminate against us because of the ancient superstitions that you claim to still believe in".

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I LOVE the way @Thomas Aquinas Pontificates!

Pontificate on, bro!
.

Please give all praise and acknowledgements to James Scott. Thank you.

Ted Cruz introduces bill defending states' rights on marriage

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/11/...

Normally I wouldn't care if the State issues a piece of paper calling a same sex union a "marriage". But if PC Fascists are going to use same sex marriage as a stick to punish Christians for believing the Bible then I am all for it.

After all if there was no Elane Photography Case if those two Lesbian Bridezillas simply said "We will get someone else since we don't wish to violate your beliefs" or if the government recognized cake making was an Art and refrained from forced speech if when gays activists said "This doesn't effect you" they really meant it then the above bill would not be needed.

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@Guest, you ignorant slut.

Considering the hundreds of gay affirming Christian denominations in the US alone, some with gay ministers, even married gay ministers, you know this is not a "gays-versus-Christians" battle.

This is an equal rights, anti-discrimination, no more second class citizens, civil rights battle.

Have the marriage you want for yourself without needing or seeking anyone else's approval.

And stop whining about others having the exact same rights you have.
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Gays HAVE every right ever. Wtf are these mystical mysterious "rights" gays fight for??
All i hear about are privilidges. Redefining a word to suit u is not a right. Otherwise i want my right to be called a veteran, and Get all the benefits they get, because i went hunting once.

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Shoot yourself first.

;-)

No one is stopping you from claiming you are a veteran.

You have equal opportunity to apply for veteran's benefits and quality just like anyone else who has veteran experience.

On point, when applying for a marriage license, or seeking a venue for a public wedding ceremony, you have every right to seek those things equal to anyone else seeking those things.

And if you qualify, you're in.

In your eyes, what is it about someone's sex that changes their equal qualifications for seeking a marriage license or public venue for a wedding ceremony, Weston O'Connor?
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Having a person perform a service for u is not a right. Its a privilige. Being able to not perform a service for somebody because it goes against your core, is a right

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It's not about customer rights so much as it's about business wrongs -- the business has no right to discriminate.

Hang your argument around that, Weston O'Connor.
.

And except for a handful of statutory reasons, a business owner can turn down whomever they want. So the public accommodations laws are not about the "right" of a black man to be served at a munch counter - it really is just a statute, and one that it sounds like you disagree with.

If, hypothetically, found themselves unable to by food in City A because of their religion - no one would sell to followers of Religion X - would your solution be for them to either move or start their own store?

(I'm not attacking you here - just asking...)

Just to show you what legitimate just discrimination against gays by Christians looks like check this out.

This is is legal!

http://www.freep.com/story/...

It is clearly moral from a Christian perspective.

The doctor is being asked to craft art or speech or being made to
directly participate in a same sex wedding and is being asked to treat an infant patient whose guardians happen to be lesbians. Which is immoral.

When they do this they only give fuel to the fascist anti-gay conservatives to violate the illegitimate rights of Christians I just
referenced.

The world is backwards Christians who participate directly in same sex ceremonies or craft speech they agree with are being persecuted but this dr lady gets a pass to the creation museum?

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Rewrite.

Yer point?
.

It's not a rewrite...look more closely

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I'm lookin', @Thomas Aquinas,

... er, the new and improvedJames Scott.

But sometimes, even my own post's meanings evade me on subsequent review.

Occasionally.

Especially when I'm too, too clever.

For my own good.

Luckily, that is rare.
.

No worries, it can happen to anybody.

Having been informed of my mental health issues I need too terminate this discussion.
I am sorry. If I had known about my mental state I would have never picked a fight with me.
So this has to stop for my sake. I need to stop now.
Definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

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Ahh, the entertainment value of James Scott finally emerges!

Thanks for that!
.

Having been informed of my mental health issues I need too terminate this discussion.
I am sorry. If I had known about my mental state I would have never picked a fight with me.
So this has to stop for my sake. I need to stop now.
Definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

.
... and finally I get to LIKE / UP VOTE a bunch of James Scott's posts.

;-)

Actually, there ave already been a few from im I support, so it's not a personal thing,it's the specific content of each post tat I address.

Thanks for this, you seem like a new, completely turned around person, newborn, born again, made over, happy at last, happy in a new way, happy in a new life -- who could ask for anything more?

We're all blessed to be able to witness the transformation!
.

Thanks but its just the same old me, James Scott the Catholic.

Just to show you what legitimate unjust discrimination against gays by Christians looks like check this out.

So this is crap is legal?

http://www.freep.com/story/...

Yes but it is clearly immoral from a Christian perspective.

The doctor is not being asked to craft art or speech or being made to directly participate in a same sex wedding but is being asked to treat an infant patient whose guardians happen to be lesbians. Which is not immoral.

When idiots do this they only give fuel to the fascist gay progressives to violate the legitimate rights of Christians I just referenced.

The world is backwards Christians who refuse to participate directly in same sex ceremonies or craft speech they disagree with are being persecuted but this dr lady gets a pass?

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Awww, @disqus_lbephljfkl ,

You almost had something there about the hatefully bigoted way some people behave.

Until you woke up screaming about "fascist gay progressives".

Perhaps if you eat more plainly before sleeping, you might not be disturbed by such visions of your imagination's pure fantasies.

Tell us again how non-discrimination in the marketplace is anti-Christian and anti-free-speech.

Specifically.

Legally.

Constitutionally.

And, what would Jesus say?

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__________

Oh, all you can say is:

Having been informed of your mental health issues we need too terminate this discussion.

I am sorry. If I had know about your mental state I would have never picked a fight with you.

So this has to stop for your sake.

You need to stop now.

definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result...

.

[ @disqus_lbephljfkl, Internet Graffiti Artist ]

__________

And all he can write is:

Having been informed of your mental health issues we need too terminate this discussion.

I am sorry. If I had know about your mental state I would have never picked a fight with you.

So this has to stop for your sake.

You need to stop now.

definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result...

.
Where have I read that before?

Oh I know:

Having been informed of your mental health issues we need too terminate this discussion.

I am sorry. If I had know about your mental state I would have never picked a fight with you.

So this has to stop for your sake.

You need to stop now.

definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result..

.
Hey, @disqus_lbephljfkl, can you help come up with a scheme for upping the post count on this thread so it "looks like" the most popular thread on AFD?

Thanks: