I just wish they focused more on features. There is already enough cars. I end up driving 3 of them anyway.

so no rain and night mode in future?

I'd be happy for now if they 'd fix the in car camera to have more than 2 settings, fix to the horizon or not! In the fix position you see your knees or the roof depending if your going up or down hill and in the unlocked position the car stays still and the whole environment moves instead, go ahead and put your finger on the dashboard and watch the car stay still when going over bumps ect and how the rest of the screen bounces instead. Make me nauseous......and how long have they been developing this game and that's the best they can do? WTF If I was the developer I would have quit right there if I couldn't get pass that hurdle. LOL

I recently revisited GTR2 and the Race 07 series with all the add on's as it's been a few yrs and I got to say they are still some of the best made racing sims even to this day. IMO they are 10x more fun, then AC atm. I just don't get how some people think this game is the best sim bla, bla, bla. It doesn't even hold a my interest for more than 10 min. at a time. But I keep hoping and trying and I've played a lot games/sims in my 56 yrs!

any particular addons for GTR2? Iplayed that thing yesterday and couldn't believe how great it still is! all the "racing feeling" stuff is there,

I might be weird, but I really like the fact where you drive out in practice session and if you're too fast, you have red light at end of pitlane and have to wait, before released on track ... now that's realism !!!

Amen

I always hated that the Cluedo board had no bathroom, but Waddington wouldn't add one. Gamemakers just won't listen.

Imagine you produce arguably the most hardcore sim ever - packed with features the hardcore simmers say they want. Then imagine sales are so poor that after six months you have to go and work for another company just to pay the bills. Imagine a few years later you return to your sim, add rain to it and see little impact on sales. Imagine NKPro.

Then imagine you get another chance at breaking into the niche PC racing sim market, competing with four other developers with much more commercially successful track records. If you have any sense you are not going to repeat your previous errors and are going to focus on how people actually use your product, not what people on forums say they want.

Now I should say that I too want rain, am less fussed about night, but I can understand why we currently won't have them in AC.

If we can leave the topic of rain behind, I'm really looking forward to the GT40, Alfa 33/2 and just hope that ACs Ferrari license might produce a rival to race against.

heh... you can also play same game in the other way around... ;-)
For instances:

Imagine you produce a hardcore sim that replicates real life racing series and tracks, respective championship rules, penalties and events recreation (including extra champ endurance rounds), with a "driving school" to assist newcomers to the hobby, with day/night (dynamic time cycle), changeable/dynamic weather, "drying" race line, marbles accumulation, good physics and damage, comprehensive user-interface, decent online code, good graphics scalable to pretty much any hardware (old or new), great sounds, packed with plenty nice features to fit pretty much any needs, and with great modding support/capabilities.
So complete and polished on release that all it needs is one rectifying (minor) patch less than a month after a healthy release.
Imagine GTR2.

Then imagine leagues, modders and modding teams, forums and websites, devoted and dedicated almost exclusively to it, with a fervorous following and a long life span, so strong that all other racing-sims are (still) judged against it.... eight years later(!). :-)

That's why noone gave a hoot to NKPro, which lacked most of that.
Honestly, it can have the prettiest graphics, models and nice physics, but as much as sales can grow, even if ever reaching the millions, it won't mask the fact that there are too much lack of necessary features to call AC a complete and accurate RACING simulation.

Well putted...also news like CTDP preview of a future AC project is really the right answer to AC and Kunos line of direction..and i still think we're going to have weather/nightday effects, regardless of their importance or not, i didn't ear or see no door shut to that...

Someone Gets It!

No mention of fixing the 95% CPU occupancy problem? On a few tracks with the right cars, I can run max. 29 AI. Others like Snoopy's Nords, won't run even a dozen. Frame rate is OK. But I get the warning and game runs in slow motion? Don't bother reminding me of all the solutions that don't work. There must be something wrong with the game engine. No other games I have, have any such problem. Many other players report the same problem. I don't see much of a Sim Racing future for AC, because of this. It will force people back to rFactor2, if they want to league race their mods. P.S. Maybe this is why no rain and night are being considered? The game engine just can't handle it.

I can't imagine that modded content is as optimized as original content. The Slowmo behaviour at 95% CPU is strange and bothers me a bit (i7 4770) but before we assume, that the engine can't handle stuff we should wait for Kunos' Nords.. If we look at Lake Louis (~same track length, also modded) the CPU is nowhere near 95%, no matter what combination I pick. However Lake-Louis shreds my FPS so the GPU is heavy in use.

On Lake Louis I can run a limited amount of AI. Maybe twelve. And as you say, that track is a FPS killer, so far. And on at least some of Kunos tracks, (haven't tested all of them for this). The max. AI, as I said is about 29! That isn't bad. But no where near the numbers of AI in rFactor 2 or pCars. So once we get the Nords in both. A mod of the VLM is being made for rFactor2, that might race 60-90 AI. rFActor2's Nords would be my preference for racing. Kunos for hot lapping. How about you?

As a big fan of the 24h hours of Nordschleife, 60-90 AI + day/night-cycle+dynamic weather sounds like a dream, Pcars is currently limited to 36 AI on the Nords I think? I do not own rfactor2, yet. I'm a big fan of street cars in sims, not quite the league racer :) But the fact that there will be a laserscanned Nords and beautiful content to come (Yellow Bird etc) to Assetto Corsa makes me dream even more. This car at night in the rain would kill me anyway :D

Limited to 35 AI. And I used to be able to run over 50? Hope they change it back. Might be limited by pit boxes? That and a huge field of multi-class cars at Le- Mans is my other dream. Limited to 53 AI at the moment? And eventually we should have 24hrs. Daytona, with the same. In pCars I mean.

Max AI on Pcars differs from track to track, suzuka can handle 53 AI. We will see how that develops..

It doesn't seem like night racing should be all that difficult. Your tracks need to be able to turn lights on but otherwise the light just goes away and headlights turned on.

netKar Pro had excellent wet weather physics. The hydroplaning in a straight line and overall levels of grip seemed excellent to me. Surprising that they've chosen to sideline it in favor of bolstering the car ranks which modders are mainly already doing for them,

The bit that actually surprised me the most, while reading this, was when confronting it with the investment in FMOD (and indirect resources, plus time, with workload having to be channeled to it).

My argument for this is, FMOD may be one of the most affordable sound-engines around (it is so for quite some time) and it is easy to be "drugged" with its million advertised features, but one thing that it isn't is easy to "get in and produce right away" for racing-games. I'm almost certain that KS's audio-designers would agree with me right now.
It requires experienced people with it to get the best of it and, unlike with FPSs, RPGs and Action/Adventure games (the genres that brought FMOD name to relevance) which use triggered one-play single sounds, it can be very laborious and hard to fine tune for racing-games, which require completely different methods and techniques. It's not ensured to deliver overall better sound (and audio immersion) after so much (required) labor around that aspect when compared to competitors, and it's also not as modder-friendly.

ISI and Sector3 use Miles Sound System for a reason - it works flawlessly, it's polished, pragmatic, and it's accessible, even to newcomers to it.
FMOD means more time, more work, farkling and complications - and I'm not only thinking here about the game development (which, I'm sure, KS's audio-designers must have hands full with it right now), but actually on the modding situation.

Think about this: In the last 10(+) years of modding for ISI and SimBin titles, the common situation for audio and its proportion related to modding was, pretty much, of one good sounding mod per hundreds of others with sub-par (horrid?) sounds.
Now, if it was like that with a super accessible, comprehensible and adaptable sound-engine with ISI based sims (Miles Sound System) during all this time, then in this particular regard I seriously doubt the chances are in favor of AC with FMOD, even with possible documentation and tutorials...

I think investing in FMOD was, and is, a very big mistake (costly?), more so if KS think AC is to become an intensive modding platform.
I can't understand how or why they prefered to go for it instead of better, more practical alternatives or, instead, investing such funds, plus previous knowledge, to improve/revamp the sound-engine they already had, and end with enough pocket change to invest in other things. For instances, to prioritize some missing features, such as the mentioned missing flag men, weather, etc. It almost defies logic.

Hi DucFreak.

I am no sound expert, but i think a large part of the problem with sounds in racing games is that they don't simulate sound properly.

This is a large problem with the games industry in general, thinking of sound as an after-thought.

Surely the best way to get accurate sound is for clean, no reverb samples to be used and then have a decently simulated sound engine to do the rest?

Is FMOD even good at this? As to be honest it seems in most games, sound has gone FAR, FAR backward from the late 90s when we had at least the beginnings of decent sound modelling with things like Thief and also Aureal A3d (which unfortunately creative killed).

Would a free sound engine like this be more helpful? (Hmm actually it says you must licence for commercial use but hey, probably far cheaper than FMOD).

http://www.carlschissler.co...

(also a video on it):
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

I mean if soundcards could simulate this stuff with A3D back in the late 90s, it should be possible to get something at least decent now.

Alternatively, i guess the environments and car cockpits could be precomputed for better quality, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Then maybe realtime more "basic / optimised" wavetracing computation could be used for sounds being reflected / obscured by other MOVING objects, such as other competitor's cars.
Mind you the pre-computed video says it can handle moving sources, which seems odd - how?

Anyway it would be interesting to hear people's thoughts on this.

The videos you show are very interesting, and yes, a lot more related advancements could be done (also) for sound in racing-games, I too think.
Not sure how it could work, how to be implemented, honestly.
One thing we need to realize is that, in AAA bigger production games (RPG, FPS, Action-Adventure) they have triggers and "zones" placed in areas to trigger such effects. I haven't seen this practiced in racing-sim games so far.
They also don't have sounds working same way as in racing games, where we have a multitude of samples, both for inside and outside of the car, working at same time and in conjunction (think of different engine RPM samples crossfading one after the other, plus various mechanical and environment effects, then multiply by number of cars) - it can then become more tricky on hardware resources.
It could also mean a lot of work for a track-maker (maybe need a dedicated guy for it), to do this for every single track, every corner (etc) but, yes, ideally thats how I think it should(?) be done. Then you would have the correct reverb, for instances, for each corner in relation to distance of camera in replay, plus distance/ressonance to objects (reverb/echo).
Imagine a "side camera replay" in game sounding like this:

https://www.youtube.com/wat...
The added complexity, however...

With FMOD having roots in those other genres of games, having plenty features, it "should" be able to do some neat things with effects-triggers in relation to area (matter of looking at SDK and/or contacting the FMOD assistants?) but, for me, the problem I have with it is how the engine sounds are "felt", their sensibilities, how they loop, and especially in relation to controller inputs, especially inside the car, where we all spend most of the time. The cars always sound "canned" in FMOD (to me), for lack of better term.
That's another reason why I am all for Miles Sound System (as seen in ISI and SimBin/Sector3 titles) because it's the only one, so far, that can be made to have engines and mechanical effects sound the most natural, to me anyway.

BTW, I think adding effects in a sound-sample to enhance its qualities is not a "dirty method" (IMO). It can work for the best, but only as long as it doesn't break the "signature" of the sample (making it sound what it isn't, not a good idea).

As for sounds in current era games (non-racing games), I don't think they're worse than they used to be. Some games did have had problems and limitations because of consoles (smaller memory), and therefore suffering with the generic sounding crap of "consolitis" (maybe related to what you mentioned).
But then, for instances, you mess with Arma 2 or Arma 3 sounds, or Falcon BMS, and, with all honesty, while it's a lot of work and complexity at times, it's also a pleasure to see how good the sounds can be in a military or flight sim. When you close your eyes and feel like "you're there, it's real", you know you've reached gaming-aural-nirvana. :-))

Having triggers and zones is not the best approach though!
That is the approach that EAX took, and although it is better than nothing, it is kind of gimmicky.

A better approach would actually be to simulate the sound propagation with wave-tracing, like in those videos.
In fact wave tracing is nothing new - it was available with A3d in the late nineties.

A simplified polygonal representation of the scene would be used for the wave tracing, in order to help optimise things.

Sound zone solutions like EAX are basically just applying a set of reverb parameters to the sound when you enter the zone etc. At least in early versions, but i think the principle was the same right up until the end, even with EAX5 and OpenAl EFX.

The sound propogation in the original Bioshock is utterly awful, and then you compare it to Thief, a game from 1998.

Compare (with headphones):
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

and

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

WIth:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Notice how in the formers, you can easily locate and position where the sounds are coming from and the volume scales with distance fairly naturally.

In Bioshock this is simply not the case, the propagation is awful and you have no real indication of where things are, everything is just "IN YOUR FACE".
Also, Bioshock uses EAX sound zones, so this shows you that areas of reverb etc don't themselves made the games sound engine "good".

Another important thing is good HRTF for headphones. This helps with pinpointing sounds and means you can do really good surround sound over just headphones.

Traditional surround sound spatialises the sound to a particular channel, where as with headphone HRTF, the sound is simulated in a way like those binaural sound recordings you can hear on youtube that use 2 microphones where your ears would be - the virtual barber shop for example.
It has to apply some alteration of the sound in order to simulate sound being changed by going through your skull etc too.

A3D uses HRTF to good effect.
Any game that uses directsound 3d can use HRTF - a good "modern" implementation is CMSS-3D on creative cards but you can even do it with any soundcard, including onboard - things like Razer Surround and OpenAl soft have support for HRTF and really add to the atmosphere of things.

With HRTF, you can hear someone come up behind and pull alongside your car - you can hear where the vehicle is.

BTW, please avoid mentioning everytime "KS is a small team", continuously on and on, as it can sound like a lame excuse.

All simracing studios are small if we get to think about it. There's plenty small developper teams in the industry trying to produce quality games (and many times succeeding). There's nothing new or particular there. I would even bet the group at ISI working in RF2 (or even at Sector3?) is smaller and, who knows, perhaps much tighter on budget than KS has been for AC.

If KS are the first ones to say that AC is a success way beyond the best predictions they had, it also means they're cashing in way beyond best expectations as well.
This can also fuel the disapointment reaction from a (large?) part of the game's userbase expecting to see the missing features that have been in other sim-racing games, some actually found in previous titles from KS, knowing they should have resources to invest in that for their own game.

Well i always stated here that i would like to see things like night/day transition and rain/other different weather aspects implemented, so in all coherency, these statements of Marco slightly disappoints me...but on the other hand, he already came here to clarify certain things (witch is something other developers don't "waste" their time)...so resuming, if it's not a current priority, it's still in their lists of possible things to implement!
It's just a waste of time, trying to find the reasons why companies adopt theire priorities, the fact is that THEY DO!...other way, we already would have the ultimate simulator long time ago...true, i wanted those features, true also, in the simulators that already have them, i don't use them that often...so i perfectly understand their priorities, witch is not saying, i agree with some of them...
...truth also is that, either they're implemented the perfect way, or one mey better be still and quiet about them...so the truth is that although RF2 has got them, it doesn't make it my priority in terms of platforms, RBR got them (at least rain), but it wasn't that feature that made me in love with the sim, not to mention the roughly implemented night mode...Pcars will have them, but for what it seems, it won't be moddable (let's hope that doesn't confirm), and altough already pre-ordered, i'm still afraid of what the final version of physics and FFB will be, so i will also complain about certain things...that's whay i have diferent platforms installed and not only one...SURE i want the complete/ultimate sim, but i also learned about having patient, and believe me, for a rush guy like me it's not easy...
So in conclusion, i still hope that they will implement those features, because in the other departments this platform it's already almost perfect and the best IMO!...i'm very happy with some of the announced cars and tracks, i am very positive with the modding around AC, almost making me believe that RF days are not dead...like very much the opened hypotheses of a complete series (like Blancpain, etc...) can see the day of light...and even think that with the genius we have out there, they can implement those features, i already saw many miracles, so....if not, i'm sure AC2 or whatever will have them as basis....so although not being very happy with some declarations, i also didn't see no closed doors to anything, and it won't detriment the fact that the sim world and in particular these guys, untill now, have done nothing but true magic and gave me some of my best oments in my sim life, and i THANK them for that!

For me personally, rain/night is not that important. Not right now anyway.

The problem in AC for me is that it feels too static. Every corner and every lap feels the same. Sound could definitely be improved further too, it also feels too static.Not sure how to describe it, but it kinda gets tedious pretty quickly.

I still prefer it over RF2 though. Any day.

In fact your described real world racing. If you have optimum surface (grip value 1), then for sure everything will stay the same lap after lap, but after a while your tyres will gradually suffer from wear, so they will lose grip. Therefore, you won't have the same lap after the same lap. Sure the sounds needs improving/tweaking, but how else can the sound of a car be if not the same every time?

It feels like it doesn't react properly to load, gear, rpm etc. It does react to it, but it feels a little static, i.e. not dynamic enough.

Night and rain features for hardcore sim racers.... So their target are hardcore arcade racers????

Maybe we should start racing/hotlapping with other track surface grip than optimum. Something more slippery and also turn the ambient temperature low.

"Minority of hardcore sim racers"

It is a subset of a subset

To be honest, I would like to have this but I'd prefer more cars and tracks and tweaks to physics and FF

I'm surprised... so many people here are surprised...
But nonetheless... it's a disappointing confirmation/news... for sure.

you guys also keep forgetting, WEATHER is not ONLY rain, it's also coudy, overcast, fog, clear .. those are also things I'm missing a lot

it gets boring to see same exact clouds every time you go on track

Those are all things that you have the ability to change right now; granted that manually changing an ini file is moderately more difficult than adjusting a built in slider.

yes you can, but it's not the same thing,
and it doesn't change over the course of said 10 hours endurance race for example

further more, if it's already possible, what's stopping Kunos to incorporate that into game?

I think it is time and resources. Yeah it's not the same thing as having weather and night day transitions but for the pure driving pleasure I think AC is already a big step forward.

I'm not mad or upset about this news just more anxious about the future... the other publishers and KS guys are watching this public reaction about this statements and will do something for their life's, I guess... I would....

Tomorrow is not the end of the word, just enjoy the moment and let the others enjoy it too. :D (eheh I'm being philosophic about this sh#$t)

wrong...

sorry to say, but if I ever hear again the " we are only little studio, people forget it " .. there's pretty much nothing I could do,
it's just excuses!
yes, if you want to do 200 cars, you need lot of people, but when it comes to features, more people don't necessarily mean more features, becase many times these are all done by 1-2 guys,

so even "big" studio has very few people working on core elements,

nobody (well, at least not me) is asking to have everything NOW, so we shall see what future brings,

I understand the point that very few people will race in rain and night, but I do belive that the people that do are also probably the ones that will keep playing AC the longest, becasue they are serious about racing,

most people that will only stay with the game for those 2-3 months, yes those definitely won't miss not having raing or night

Kunos should remember, it's the "hard core" crowd who would like weather and night racing that will buy EVERY bloody dlc they EVER put out. It's the "hard core" crowd pushing this game so hard they barely need any advertising.

The casual crowd you will probably not see another dollar from past the purchase of AC on sale on Steam for ten dollars.

So maybe they should start thinking about that!!!!

Agree with you there, Patrik - all simracing studios are small if we get to think about it. There's plenty small developpers in the industry trying to produce (and many times succeeding) quality games. There's nothing new or particular there. Better avoid mentioning that all the time, as it can sound like a poor excuse.

KS are not the only ones being "limited". In fact I would even bet the group at ISI working in RF2 is smaller and, who knows, perhaps much tighter on budget than KS has been for AC.

Then there's another thing that, I feel, fuels the disapointment - if KS are the first ones to say that AC is a success way beyond the best predictions they had, it also means they're cashing in beyond best expectations as well.
So it can't be a surprise if a (large?) part of the game's userbase was expecting features that have been in other sim-racing games, some even found in previous titles from KS, knowing they should have resources to invest in other important missing features for their own game.

Hello everybody. I think it would be right to recognize that sometime, some sentences in a language cannot be reported directly in another without changing their sense, so I think it would have been better to ask me to confirm some passages before to post a news like this, instead to base it on an automatic translator. I'm sure the author is in good faith, anyway maybe my thoughts could have been reported more fairly.

Therefore, without any polemics, let me just clarify in english some sensible points:

rain: in future we might plan to introduce wet conditions in AC: the premise was that we know that wet conditions are very important for some people, but game statistics tell that aren't really used so much. Being a little studio (sometime people forget it), we must be focused on those features and contents that we are sure people really will use.

Out of records: about comments like "without rain AC is not a complete simulation", I answer: you're right. A 15-people studio can develop a good simulation. But not necessarily a complete simulation. Some racing simulations do not have rain, some do not have AI, some do not have a proper physics model, some have fictional or very few official contents, some do not have laserscan tracks. AC does not have wet conditions. For now. Because I haven't said that AC will not ever have wet conditions. The correct translation is "we might have plans to introduce wet conditions in future".

night conditions: the correct translation is "I doubt we'll have night race conditions". This feature would require a work-around, because the AC engine has not been designed to support this feature in a native way. AC will support endurance races on a 10-hours cycle, from early morning to sunset.

Assetto Corsa 2: the question was: average lifetime of a videogame is about 3 months, with very rare exceptions: does KUNOS want to support AC for long time with DLCs and future updates, or you are already thinking about an AC2?

My answer: we plan at least one year with updates and additional contents. We'll use next year also to evaluate the feedback and reaction of people on mid-long term. Assetto Corsa is going very well, and its success can evolve it by a successful game to a successful brand. If this will be the case, it would be natural to make some plans for an AC2 in future (with night and rain conditions - and this part was intended to be auto-ironic), but for now, we prefer to stay focused to finalize AC and its future updates.

So, AC2 is not in our plans, at today, and it would be a total nonsense. Because we are still working on AC.

Hoping to have been helpful, take care.

February 2012:

"We supported netKar PRO for more than 5 years. If you bought a license in 2006, still today you can download and use the latest version of the game without paying anything. And I think that we can say that nKPro 1.3 could be named “netKar PRO 2.0”, because it has been dramatically improved, in some cases completely modified from the 1.0 version. Our aim was to give to people who trusted us in 2006 what they expected then. After 5 years, netKar PRO is still on the market, and it is still considered -in some aspects- a milestone in its genre.

It should be reasonable to expect a similar timescale and approach to Assetto Corsa."

November 2014:

"we plan at least one year with updates and additional contents."

Thanks.

I've read that there will be expected game support until 2018. Even if they said "we plan at least one year with updates and additional contents.", that doesn't mean the game won't get support past that year of 2015, and also doesn't mean that assetto v2.0 won't be put over 1.0 as to be the same game we are currently playing.

Make a voting pol of features we want it. Same as you guys did with "dream cars" voting pool.

Good to know what the correct translation was.

Now this sounds a lot more optimistic :) . Thanks!

Ciao Marco, italian expat here. I have raced GTR2 in endurance races, twice a week for over 2 years. I enjoyed immensely that night races at spa with the rain coming right in the middle of the pit rotation. It added a level of realism that no other sim has ever given me. Choosing the right tires, listening to the radio for those that have already pitted and are seeing rain in the valley, the light fading or brightening as the case may be and finally making the decision that will either win or lose the entire race by diving into the pits.

I cannot count how many times choosing inters instead of full rain tires allowed me to race well above my means, or vice versa.

At the same time, I know you guys are right. Unless you want to make an entire sim for about half of the 30 to 40 guys in those weekly races (the other half bitched at the mere sight of cloudy skies), it is a minority audience.

Even in that league, I think only 4 or 5 of us habitually practiced in the rain and fine tuned a rain setup. The rest, including some of the fast guys, simply hoped for blue skies rather than having to drive in the wet.

That said, I am disappointed. The league is actually going to switch from GTR2 to AC next season and while we are certainly happy to finally have modern graphic and physics, I am personally going to miss those SPA races.

Ma ti voglio dire una cosa: da italiano, sono molto orgoglioso del vostro lavoro e del vostro successo. Se avete may bisogno di un buon web designer, io carico baracca e burattini e ritorno a vivere a Roma :)

Ho anche grandi memorie di Vallelunga. Mio padre mi portava a Vallelunga a vedere le corse dal 1970 al 75. Ho grandi memorie di quei tempi e vi invidio il vostro ufficio.

Thanks for the clarification Marco.
For what AC has right now and what it has brought us (not least to mention laser scanned tracks including Spa and the Nordschliefe !) we can still be very well satisfied. There are so many things AC does so very well.
If rain makes it into AC at some point, then all the better but it won't be a major disaster if not but I can't say I won't be disappointed not to see those lovely cars rain-spraying their way down a fast straight with visibility behind barely tolerable and all you can judge in the braking zones is the car in fronts brake lights :)

I do understand their reasoning for not adding Night racing and weather effects, however, this makes AC the only one of the "next-gen" Sims to not feature it. I can't help but feel that the lack of these features gives people a reason to not buy AC.

Strange how GTR2 was the only last gen sim to offer rain, night racing and track rubbering/marbles but while much loved I don't recall the "community" declaring it was the only "hardcore" sim and that rfactor, iracing and nkpro were not hardcore because they lacked these features.

I think also when you get decent representations of rain in games like GP4 which were over a decade ago, it can make you wonder why we're not seeing it in sims of today. I wonder how popular rain and windy conditions are in the flight sim world. Yet you just can't really do a serious flight sim without it.