We were unable to load Disqus. If you are a moderator please see our troubleshooting guide.
I've watched it start to finish a dozen times, even blown up so I can see it better. That is a textbook case of offensive pass interference. Could have been called on either receiver. They had NO intention of trying to run a pass route. They were blocking straight downfield well before the pass was thrown, and continued to do so through the end of the play. A junior high school official could have made that call.
Can't spell "BigLeadSports" without biased.
That's just wrong. The guy covering #20 played aggressive press coverage. He took any possible quick slant away. Good for him. No PI. And it has nothing to do with Robinson being left uncovered. The guy covering #7 jumped on a shoulder turn. Again, he took away any slant. Hooray for him. No PI. That said, those guys were covering #20 and #7. Robinson was left alone. #26 is just standing around also protecting against slants. It was a busted coverage by FSU. They got bailed out by a fake penalty. That's pretty much it.
You must be high. None of ND's receivers even attempted to run their routes. You can't block DB's downfield when making a forward pass. "Bailed out by a fake penalty" HA! HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
You are just wrong. Sorry about that, but you are. To say ND's #20 is "just driving the defender" betrays any credibility you might have had. That's a fanciful view. #8 absolutely locks up on #20 in aggressive man coverage, liberally using both hands to control him. #8 initiates contact and #20 simply keeps his hands out of it and slowly, deliberately moves forward. Which is exactly what you do to make sure nobody can throw a flag. I had a college professor who used to say, "Confirmation bias is the most powerful force in the universe." I now know what he means. Everyone who wants to see #20 taking out #8 is seeing it even though nothing like that happened.
It's not "aggressive man coverage". When an offensive player locks up with a defensive player more than one yard beyond the neutral zone and continues for more than three yards beyond the neutral zone it is considered run blocking. If it is instead a pass that crosses the line of scrimmage it is Offensive Pass Interference per the NCAA rulebook, not the Golden Domers Wishbook.
You missed the entire point. The FSU player was engaged in aggressive man coverage. #8 locked up on ND's #20 immediately. He held him with both hands. It was very aggressive press coverage. What #20 did at that point was go way out of his way to keep his hands down and slowly, deliberately move forward. That's what you do to make sure you don't get flagged. On FSU's #3 against ND's #7 -- in man coverage protecting inside is primary. #7 does a shoulder dip, and #3 jumps inside. All #7 does -- or needs to do at that point -- is stand there because #3 sealed himself. Not that it mattered, by the way. #26 was playing a different defense and just stayed inside, meaning FSU was covering 3 with 2. All of this discussion about contact between #3/#7 and #8/#20 ignores the fact that nobody had responsibility for the guy who caught the TD. The efforts to pursue him were late recognition, too late, because someone blew coverage (almost certainly #26). The contact in this play was window dressing. The real story was one of three DBs playing the wrong coverage resulting in an uncovered WR in the endzone. Until the flag, that is.
No, you missed the entire point. Per the NCAA rulebook, it is the offensive player's obligation to avoid the defensive player. If he instead locks up with him the defensive player has to assume it's run blocking. If it's a pass that crosses the line of scrimmage, it's OPI. PERIOD.
That's false. It is NOT the offensive players obligation to avoid the defense. That obligation only kicks in when the offensive player initiates contact. You can't seriously believe that the defender can initiate contact and it is somehow the offensive players obligation to get away from that contact. Can you?
Dude. Rulebook. I'm quoting from it.
But you are NOT applying it. There is no affirmative obligation for a WR to get away from contact initiated by a defender. And it certainly isn't a penalty on the offense.
Again, YES there is an obligation. If he attempts to disengage and is unable it is a defensive penalty. If he makes no effort to disengage, but instead continues pressing the engagement it is run blocking or, should it be a pass that crosses the line of scrimmage, OPI. If you can't understand that at this point it is either willful ignorance or trolling.
If a guy grabs you with both hands, you absolutely can move forward while he's pulling on you. You are simply wrong. Don't know what else to tell you.
You don't know what else to tell me because my point comes from the rulebook and yours comes from fairy dust and happy thoughts. You can say the third defender blew the coverage all you want. Hell, they were blowing coverages all night. But I don't care if the third defender got on his knees and blew the referee, once the first two "receivers" pressed the run block for more than three yards downfield before the ball was thrown on a pass play it's pass interference.
There is no three yards downfield - the line of scrimmage is only 2 1/3 yards from the plane of the end zone.
dude, rule book. We are quoting from it too! OPI requires the offensive player to impede the D back from making a play. Darby cut inside to cut off fuller from a slant route and made the contact, Fuller DID NOT run into him..watch the play again, in slow motion. smh you obviously didnt bother to check out all the pics and gifs from that play..it clearly backs up what we are saying...unfortunately all this debate means nothing because the score wont change. Just call it for what it is, a blown call that decided the fate of one of the best games of the year. ANY real football fan would be peeved at that, game should be left to the players
Also, even if you want to make the (erroneous) argument that the first receiver was immediately grabbed and held by the defender, the second "receiver" swung sround the outside and targeted the second defender for a block that the two "receivers" then cooperatively pushed back into the third defender.
Another poster linked to a great video that shows a good angle on #3 and #7. #7 dips his shoulder, and #3 jumps inside. He has to, really, because taking inside position is primary when you are man up like that. It sealed him from any outside pursuit . . . which didn't matter anyway because he was covering #7 and #88 was left uncovered.
had they called the first TD, i think most ND fans would say "well, ok.". But this was starkly different than that play, and im not talking about the play itself. In that play, Koyack runs up to the defender and rubs him. in this play, #8 engages and holds procise while dragging him backwards. #3 (darby) moves inside to cut off a slant route and fuller and him make contact briefly before Fuller turns. Fuller did NOT impede Darby because Darby was trying to impede him and cut him off inside! NOT ONE PLAYER even made a move for Robinson! They got burned, the the refs bailed them out. PERIOD, THE END!
lol last i checked, grabbing and holding the outside of a players shoulder pads is holding, not OPI..and if you look, Procise's arms ARE DOWN AT THE GROUND ..he cant help if hes being held and pulled back! smh
You don't understand. There is a relationship between routes on a play like that. "Trying to get open" isn't always the real goal. You stack three on one side of the field and you force the D to play you 3 on 3 (unless they bring help and abandon the other side of the field or the middle, which they can't). What happens then, from an offensive perspective, depends on what the D does. The way FSU's #8 and #3 played it, it really all became about #26 getting through clutter (potential picks) to get to #88. But #26 didn't try. He was playing a different defense.
There are two ways to defend that stack with 3 DBs. You can play a flow/inside-out D, where all three DBs play inside out coverage in areas. That's dangerous because it affords space for quick throws. It looked like #26 played it this way. He just hovered inside. If #3 and #8 had played it that way, it likely ends up with #3 and #88 in a jump ball in the shallow endzone. But #3 and #8 for FSU played it the other way -- head-on/front-to-back, which involves the DBs locking up on individual WRs. When #8 locked up on #20, it really wasn't about him "getting open" anymore. The quick slant was a no go and his job was pretty much complete by occupying the DB. He is essentially taken out of the play by the aggressive press coverage. Which is okay from an offensive standpoint because it eliminates one DB from the equation too. #3 took #7 man up. He took more depth because he could -- #20/#8 created a passing lane issue. But #3 jumped on #7. All #7 had to do was get #3 to take away inside coverage. #3 seals himself inside by doing that. But he pretty much has to, because inside is primary. At that point, #7 has accomplished his job for all intents and purposes. #26 is left to try to get to #88. If he'd played it correctly, it would have been interesting. Because he didn't, #88 was left uncovered. I looked at it again to see if there could have been something like a hand-off of coverage between #26 and #3 within a head on/front-to-back scenario, where #26 takes over coverage of #7 so #3 could take outside responsibility, but nothing like that took shape. It ended up being pretty simple: #26 stayed inside, leaving #3 and #8 to cover 3 WRs. It was impossible. #8 was never involved because he played press and took away any quick hitter involving #20. #3 had to cover #7. He could only have meaningfully covered #88 if he abandoned #7 immediately, leaving #7 uncovered. By the time FSU players had late recognition of the bust, any contact was meaningless. Nobody could make a play on #88. Not because of any pick or "downfield blocking by WRs." #88 was wide open because #26 stayed inside while FSU's other 2 DBs had to cover three WRs. That's really it. People want to get all excited over the contact, but it had nothing to do with the outcome. And it wasn't PI by any accepted application of the rules. I know a lot of people don't want to believe it, but it's true.
Fwiw, I suspect Bama would rail ND. But it isn't "you guys." I have a strong opinion about this because I like the Xs and Os of football, and I think the call was atrocious. Nothing to do with ND really. I'm done arguing it. Nobody will ever have their minds changed about sports, politics, or religion based on an internet argument. So I've said my piece, and I'm out. Best wishes.
Awesome break down.
Don't know who you're refering to when you say "Championship caliber team", because neither of these teams has a chance in hell of being a champion this season. Unless Champion of the ACC means something besides a punchline.
Well, last year the acc champ was nat champ, dumbass.
We'll see, troll.
bama (blow tide) won't be anywhere near the playoff with lsu, miss st and auburn still on the their schedule, so it's a moot point.
Not all of them. nope. not a chance. Miss st will use them as their bitch. so will Marshall at Auburn, like he did last year.
Yeah, that defense is tough. I just can't decide which is more impressive, the shutout against that Fl Atlantic team or the shutout of an A&M that's only quality win is vs Arkansas?
oops meant Osu and boy did they use the tide as their bitch. The crimson must have been from the tampons the tide were using.
wtf happened to bama.....osu will be pounding them for years. they were still a year away. Nickie looks old and beaten.
They have a better chance of winning out than MSU does, even if they do lose to MSU.
I tend to think of it as MSU won't be anywhere near the playoff with Bama, Arkansas and Ole Miss still on their schedule. And then Ole Miss has Auburn, Arkansas, LSU and MSU on theirs.
Wow..Alabama would rail us again. I'm glad you know that. I love it. We lost big to Bama and we were unprepared for them and yes we got handed to. But that was 2 years ago and our lost made you so happy, that every time we play you think of us. Tell me this. What has Alabama done since then. I can't remember, did they win the championship last year. This conversation has nothing to do with Alabama nor how many points we gave up to UNC. This is FSU and ND and for this game we battled and had the defending CHAMPIONS on edge in their own house without 5 defensive starters. Now for the game. We lost and FSU won. We can't change the score or convince anybody that we are better than what people think. I hope we both win out and meet again. If not we will just have to wait till 2018.
Everybody is a Championship contender but does everybody win..no!. The SEC is always on top bc these voters keep ranking them high and then when you guys lose you don't drop but if you win then you jump crazy. South Carolina beats Georgia and jumps from unranked to 13th while West Virginia beats #3 Baylor and goes Unranked to 23rd. That's why the playoff system us in effect because of the SEC being giving trips to Championship games. You guys made it to a Championship game and didn't even win your division or conference. And now 4 in the top 5. Yeah it's bc you guys are that good. And recruits, some of your top SEC boys are coming out stating that they got paid to come and while they were there. The fact still remains that you on a conversation about FSU and Notre Dame talking about Alabama. Smh.
Here educate youreselfhttp://www.blackheartgoldpa....
I think you're (sic) professor also could've been talking about the people who want to see #8 being held . . . . Agree. The people who want to see #8 being held are seeing it because they want to see it. I'm glad we finally agree on something.
I only edited it to include (sic) because I realized you misused you're. So what?
Blow yourself, Willis.