"[i]It seems to me more than a tad coincidental that Frazer reports this attempted abduction and then a couple of days later the PSNI informs one of the people who Frazer has made responsible for the abduction bid - i.e. the Minister of Regional Development - that the Orange Vounteers have tried to murder him."[/i]

In what way do you think it's coincidental, picador?

"[i]who Frazer has [b]made responsible for the abduction bid[/b] - i.e. the Minister of Regional Development"[/i]

I must have missed that. Where did Frazer make Conor Murphy responsible for the abduction?

HMM I am suddenly if William and ole willy share more than a first name like maybe a last name? Sock puppetry at its worst?

Apparently loyalist paramilitaries tried to murder Conor Murphy over the weekend (though the BBC has relegated it to a 'threat'). It seems to me more than a tad coincidental that Frazer reports this attempted abduction and then a couple of days later the PSNI informs one of the people who Frazer has made responsible for the abduction bid - i.e. the Minister of Regional Development - that the Orange Vounteers have tried to murder him.

Anti-terrorist campaigner Willy Frazer speaks on Billy Wright during an interview with Susan Mckay for her book ‘Northern Protestants - An Unsettled People’ (Pg. 195):

“I had a lot of time for Billy. He called a spade a spade.”

(This is also the same book in which he is quoted as saying to McKay that "if a Paki came over here from India and shot dead a Provo, I'd shake his hand.")

Here the anti-terrorist campaigner speaks to the Sunday World about Dublin/Monaghan bomber and convicted UVF quartermaster James Mitchell after attending his funeral:

"James was a good man."

In an interview given to the Irish Examiner in the run-up to the Love Ulster march in Dublin in 2006 professional mourner Willie admits that the march far from being a simple parade in memory of victims of violence was instead a cynical political propaganda message which used the dead to get its anti-Agreement message across. Said Willie:

`Broadly, we think there is too much interference in the affairs of the North by the Irish government,'' said William Frazer, the march organizer, in a telephone interview from Armagh. ``We are bringing that message down south.''

It must also be kept in mind that Frazer was refused a personal protection weapon because of his links with loyalist terrorists.

Ulster's my Homeland

Spare us the homily about Frazer. He stated in public that the "loyalist" terrorists realeased under the GFA should never have been locked up in the first place.

Do you agree with this sentiment? If so, don't talk down to me or anyone else about morality.

If you don't agree with it, why are you on here defending Frazer? It's an unambiguous statement and he has, to my knowledge, never retracted it.

If you have evidence to the contrary, provide it.

If a relative of Catholic victims of "loyalist" terrorism made a similar statement about republican prisoners, you would be screaming about it.

Ulster's my Homeland

"It would seem Conor Murphy is trying to make Frazer out to be a subject of ridicule"

Frazer doesn't need any assistance to be ridiculous - he already is and has been for years.

All his own work.

Aye I can Willie.

If such a supreme entity exists I'll go to meet him/her/it with a clear conscience.

And now that I've answered your question would you mind answering the two I asked you at 8.11?

Paul McMahon....I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I'm happy that my Maker will judge me kindly as all I've ever done is help people, both in my private and professional life....

I have never supported, either by word or deed, nor vote any terrorist related organisation nor have I ever thrown a stone in anger throughout all the years of the so-called 'war'.

Can you and many of the hate-mongers on this blog say the same ????

William Houston

"All spiteful, hate-filled words against Willie Frazer. Libellous remarks about him"

Can only speak for myself here William but please domonstrate where my comments regading Willie are
spiteful hate filled and libellous.

"No doubt some of the posters above are from South Armagh and have been dragged up through their childhood to hate Police and everything British"

Surely you're not suggesting that the concept of policing is synonomous with the concept of being British Willie? That'll come as a surprise to the rule of law in all non-British states internationlly, [not to mention that bastion of Britishness, loyalist paramilitarism].

"Someday you will have to meet your Maker...that is the day you’ll be judged and I’ve no doubt, many, if not all of you will be directed southwards"

That may be true William and if such a being exists people like me will be judged on his/her/its terms - as will people such as you and Willie Frazer.

posted by William

"So to those hatemongers, I say,....someday you will have to meet your Maker...that is the day you’ll be judged"

See you in hell then....

The Devil has plenty of room or so those of a religioud bent inform us.

To 'Just asking'.....no doubt a fully paid up Sinn Fein / IRA Member.

You said....'The physical war is over but the political war has only just begun....'

Isn't that what Frankie Gallagher of the URPG said a couple of weeks ago about the UDA and he got pilloried in the media....going back to war...political or the traditional variety you lot were so fond of?

Republicans of the Sinn Fein / IRA ilk are still in hate mode and not a word of 'let the Police deal with this matter'....all spiteful, hate-filled words against Willie Frazer. Libellous remarks about him and dangerous comments that call into question the committment of Sinn Fein / IRA posters to this blog to the concept of adherence to Law & Order and the acceptance of Policing and Justice.

No doubt some of the posters above are from South Armagh and have been dragged up through their childhood to hate Police and everything British, so I will concede that it is difficult for them to change. Difficult as in 'trying to teach an old dog new tricks'

So to those hatemongers, I say,....someday you will have to meet your Maker...that is the day you'll be judged and I've no doubt, many, if not all of you will be directed southwards [your traditional route] although the signpost will show 'Hell' rather than Dublin.

perhaps Willie and Jim do not believe that they can win the political contest

All designed to try and boost Jim Allister and the idea that there is still a serious IRA campaign on the wage, amatuer juvenille stuff and quite frankly pathetic. The physical war is over but the political war has only just begun and the sooner Jim and Willie get with it the better

that was shite, CTB

I'm surprised willie embarked on such a dangerous mission of daring do with out the safety of his saracen.
This is a wee song posted on an earlier thread in which willie was advertising saracen tours of south armagh.

Chorus
Armoured cars and tanks and guns
We take pounds, euros and dollars no punts
You'll have to stand watch your behind
The seats are made of barbed Wire

Through the little roads of bandit country
In the dark of early morn
A Saracen will fly around bends
Willie wildly beeping its horn.

Heedless of the sheep and cattle
Or the councils newly planted flower beds
Beating the accelerator while helpless tourists
Feel the blood flow to their heads

Chorus

Not for them insurance for an injury
Or indeed a claim at all
Speeding in a Saracen means you're guilty
So you’re guilty one and all

Round the world rumours will echo
Brits are invading the south again
England’s name and the Good Friday agreement is sullied
In the eyes of honest men

Chorus

Proudly stand with city men and farmers
Firmly stand behind our men
We will have them free to help us
Build a Nation once again

On the people stand together
Proudly firmly on your way
Never fear, and never falter
Till that big Saracen goes away.

"Willie doesn’t need Murphy to make him the subject of ridicule, he does a good enough job himself.”

willie is a rank hypocrite full stop.

just like billy wright, King Rat, Doctor Death, etc, etc...

willie needs a big hug and some body who's willing to listen to him.
If the Brit or Irish governments or both in a joint venture could give him a tv show and make republicans participate in it and listen to and face questioning from willie,with a threat of no further concessions should they refuse. That may make him happy.
It could be based in Long Kesh and called I'm a republican get me outta here

William

To those of us with out the PIRA hate blinders on this all sounds suspiciously like a set up, How convenient that a mob of 20 supposed republican kidnappers can apear and disapear with in seconds. How would this supposed well organized mob of 20 not be able to pull 1 man from a car with the door already open? perhaps because it was all for show for the equally convenient documentary camera man, who by the way doesnt seem to back wee willy's fantasy story? How does a supposed organized band of kidnappers not know the coppers are in the neighbourhood?

To me it sounds like a pantomime dreamed up for the express purpose of giving the camera man a convenient story about the nasty republicans out to get wee willy.

If this was done by the provo's they have let their standards slip beyond recognition

William
as someone from the area I have no doubt at all that there was an incident involving willie on the 'Blaney rd, Crossmaglen. however, i do have serious doubts about Willie's account of the incident.did some men think he was part of the 'raid' on diesel men? Probably. Were the IRA after him? I doubt it. Is Willie a 'hate figure'? no, he's a joke but it is interesting that he sees to get his information very quickly, collaboration anyone??

How does one "attack the person, not the man?"

William,

"Willie Frazer, the hate figure of terrorist South Armagh"

To be frank, I have never ever heard of Willie Fraser refered to seriously enough for him to be regarded as a 'hate figure'.

He would be generally regarded as a pitiful character in South Armagh, illustrated by Dominic Bradley's comments.

People generally think that he has lost an awful lot but that his support for loyalist paras takes away from his validity as a 'victim's campaigner'.

The more I read posts from Sinn Fein / IRA supporters on this blog, the more convinced I am that they are not at all totally committed to law and order and their representatives, like Murphy are not fit for Government.

No one can forget Murphy's denials of IRA involvement in the murder of Paul Quinn and now we have more denials with regard to Willie Frazer.

This incident was no mere 'figment' of Willie Frazer's imagination....an Independent TV production company cameraman was with Willie when he was attacked....only the cameraman's protestations as to his role saved him from attack, but his £35k camera and other equipment was taken.

The Police were on the scene within a minute as they were a hundred yards along the road accompanying Customs & Excise personnel who were taking samples of illicit fuel from one of the bootleg filling stations in that unlawful area of Northern Ireland.

Why can't those Republican /Sinn Fein / IRA folk posting here, take Willie Frazer's allegations seriously and say, go to the Police with your complaint and if it proves false then so be it.

But no, typical of the Fascist nature of Sinn Fein / IRA, they attack the person, not the man....

Finally, WHERE IS MICK FEALTY, when he's needed???? No [man not ball , moderated Ed] message on any of the hateful, spiteful garbage from the lowlifes of Fascist Republicanism.

I trust that Mick is away from the PC, not just allowing this filth to be posted, because the recipient of it is Willie Frazer, the hate figure of terrorist South Armagh.

Frazier will always periodically invent some nonsense to keep his ego going. Within the next 6-12 months there will be another 'incident'! The stout defense of him by several posters says a lot about their own warped sense of 'terrorism'.
Still, i would love to see 'oor wullie' parade through Crossmaglen in this 'pig', with his arm extended, giving the salute. Hilarious!
By the way, I think the good people of south Armagh have been very tolerant of this man over recent years. If the shoe had been on the other foot and he had been parading himself around unionist areas of Belfast, he would have had his throat cut and dumped in a wheelie bin!
I dare anyone to say that that would have not been the outcome.

RoC

That's a good post and very true. I don't for one one minute deny that Willie Frazer and his family suffered in the past. Of course it has coloured his views and politics but we also can't ignore his own father's links to the UDR and UVF death squads. Frazer has also defended to the hilt Loyalist mass murderers and British State killer units. His hypocrisy is TOTALLY despised within the Nationalist/Republican community. He is one of the faces on the TV that still makes me very angry. He doesn't give a damn about those innocent Catholics and Protestants butchered by Loyalists of whom he said "...shouldn't have been in jail in the first place".

Why was willie not driving his normal car that day? If he had then there would have been no trouble, see for yourself.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch...

I feel sorry for Willie Frazer. Any man that has experienced what he has couldn't be normal. Unfortunately this is the same with so many in the North affected by the troubles through first hand experience. They are terribly scarred by the events and end up, in a sense, deformed by their losses.

If only people affected by the violence could try to follow the lead of the true christian that was Gordon Wilson. But this is the ancient lands of Ireland and true christianity is a lot easier to preach about in Catholic and Protestant churches than to actually practice in real life.

Willie Frazer nauseates me to the core. He has a political agenda dressed up as (Protestant Only) Victims front. He always defends Loyalist death squads and mass murderers and you can see the bitterness eating away at him. The fact is that his father belonged to a notorious UDR unit with strong links to the UVF. Go away Frazer we can see what you are about!

'He’s a man fighting for the rights of victims in lawless South Armagh and he needs help from everyone.'

Personally speaking umh, I think that's bullsh*t.

And i agree with SDLP MLA Dominic Bradley on this one.

He said: “Mr Frazer has said loyalist paramilitaries are welcome in his campaign as individuals, which presumably means out of uniform and leaving the guns and blast bombs at home. He admits that these loyalists have murdered people, but adds ‘thankfully not in my community’. This is an absolutely disgraceful statement which he should withdraw if he wants to have any sort of public recognition as a representative in a civilised society.

“It is plain wrong and quite sectarian to pick and choose between good murderers and bad murderers, or good victims and bad victims. We must all have a duty of care towards each other and towards all innocent people if we are to have any sort of civilised society at all, and Mr Frazer’s remarks quite simply don’t meet that standard.”

I was thinking: how refreshing it would have been had Conor Murphy said what Jim Allister said, and vice versa.

But I guess I'll have to remain thirsty :^)

I am not responsible for the dodginess, nor otherwise, of David Dunseith, a man I have never met. In any case I am not so sure what 'dodgy' sounds like.

My own, admittedly limited, experience on the subject rests with a fictional television character who was forever saying, "Sounds a bit dodgy to me, Tel." Tel would respond, "You fink so, Arfur ?". But really we all suspected that it was "Arfur himself wot wos the dodgy one", if you get my drift, guv.

Since you appear to be knowledgeable in this 'dodgy' area (like Mrs Robinson on 'anal probing') I was wondering if you were by any any chance related to Arthur Daley, or are you perhaps in the used motor trade yourself and so familiar with the argot?

"why don’t you tell it to us?, instead of telling us what he isn’t? or telling us what he might be, or his father might be, or his next door neightbour might be?"

I have to say UMH, and please excuse my slowness here, but I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Perhaps you could explain it, in simplistic terms, to me? [and while you're at it maybe you could also answer the question?]

Rory

Thanks for posting the link to the Dunseith interview. So now the PSNI have names and registration numbers to investigate.

The caller who basically said there should not be any no-go areas in a free country is exactly right. You don't have to like Frazier to agree that he had a right to do what he was doing without gangster interference.

Again Conor Murphy tries to brush this off, as he did the Paul Quinn murder. He was wrong then and he's wrong now. Murphy is not only shirking his duty as a public representative, he may be constructing yet another cover-up. It did not work in the Quinn murder case and it will not work in this incident.

Paul McMahon

"[i]So what do you reckon UMH was poor wee Willie misquoted by McKay or was she simply telling lies? "[/i]

why don't you tell it to us?, instead of telling us what he isn't? or telling us what he might be, or his father might be, or his next door neightbour might be?

No counterpoint then UMH? - fair enough.

Why do people find it hard to believe this story?

Willie has told it from his heart and how he and his cameraman seen it. His car having been rammed and then

"They reversed back but several other cars blocked the way behind, and soon there were up to 20 men around the car."

Were they fools only 20 of them, did they think our brave Willie would go down without a fight. Did they think it was merely superman they were kidnapping?

Willie's story goes on:

"The attackers soon had the doors open and were trying to drag Mr Frazer out of the car, but he was fighting to stay inside.

"I could see the white van with both of the back doors open," said Mr Frazer and they were shouting 'get him out'. I have no doubt they intended to kidnap me."

"Mr Frazer said they punched and kicked him viciously and when they couldn't get him fully out of the car, they repeatedly slammed the door on his leg."

Did they really think they could break the leg of our Willie so easily. There vicious attack may have been enough against mere mortals but our Willie's will and his superinhuman powers were more than a match for 20 mere mortal Republicans.

The story continued:
"As a desperate last resort Mr Frazer reached into his coat and shouted: "Get back or I'll shoot."

"With that they all scattered like rats," he said. "Within 20 seconds there was not a sign of any of them on the road."

20 seconds and all 20 mere republicans and their cars and vans are all gone. Clearly these men should not be out kidnapping superinhuman Loyalists but should in some Olympic sport.

The story continued:
"The police were there 60 seconds after we phoned them," he said.". Well this was the final bit that may have made it all slightly unbelieveable, the cops turning up in 60 seconds. and yet still couldn't see all these cars and people speeding off in a small village like Cross.

Get a life Willie.

Thanks Paul McMahon

David Dunseith comes across dodgy in that link your supplied rory.

Why’s Willie a hypocrite, hmmmm, where do I start?

How about campaigning for allegedly ‘innocent victims’ like Robert McConnell and then branding innocent victim Eugene Reavey a mass murderer?

How about speaking of murder and so called ethnic cleansing yet have ‘a lot of time’ for a notoriously sectarian death squad leader?

How about condemning terrorism while claiming the loyalists should never have been in jail for their acts of terrorism?

Clear enough for you UMH?

“So you’re using posts by another member to back up your argument?”

Where do the rules on Slugger say that you can’t agree with other bloggers?

Regardless of what anyone else says my opinions on Willie’s hypocrisy stand alone and are judged on their own strengths, however, Willie’s contradictions are so obvious it’s almost inevitable that there will be an overlap of opinion. I suspect that you’re trying to build a straw man.

“Get out of the habit of using propaganda sites to back up your argument, Susan McKay and the horde of segregationists she works for would like nothing else than the likes of you to spread her shit”

The Irish Times a propaganda site? Haven’t heard it called that before. So what do you reckon UMH was poor wee Willie misquoted by McKay or was she simply telling lies?

UMH

"you say he’s ‘selective’ in the innocents, How so?"

It's all in my post UMH, I'm not sure I can elaborate any more without basically repeating myself! Is there any specific part you disagree with?

Listen to Willie tell his story of "what he believed was a kidnap attempt" to David Dunseith here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplaye...

It is the first item so no waiting or skipping required.

Great link, 6 countyprod-some very striking photos there on the most dangerous places in the world, although I'm a bit surprised that Shaftesbury Square at closing time didn't make it onto the list.

"[i]He’s a htpocrite for this:

http://www.indymedia.ie/art..."[/i]

How does that prove he's a hypocrite?

Hi, Paul you can do better than that.

"[i]And for all the reasons Sneakers mentions above."[/i]

so you're using posts by another member to back up your argument? Hummmmm? Paul here's a tip, get out of the habit of using propaganda sites to back up your argument, Susan McKay and the hord of segregationists she works for would like nothing else than the likes of you to spread her shit.

You're still talking italics, UMH-No change there then...

italics fixed, hopefully [/i]

He's a htpocrite for this:

http://www.indymedia.ie/art...

And for all the reasons Sneakers mentions above.

"Father Reid ‘associated’ with paramilitaries"

Did the cops say this?

Sneakers O'Toole

"[i]I think the point is that he’s very selective in the “Innocent Relatives” he “Acts” for.

you say he's 'selective' in the innocents, How so?

Thankfully he wasn't abducted otherwise there may have been a 'Free Willie' film.

I'll get me coat...

I can't understand the sarcasm Sluggers are using regards this attempted murder?? definite abduction innocent in South Armagh. Just think for one moment if it was your wife, husband, son or daughter, would you post in the same manner?

I think the point is that he's very selective in the "Innocent Relatives" he "Acts" for.

Eugene Reavey is one of the few people who knows how it feels to go through the pain Frazer's went through, losing three of his brothers in 24 hours.

Yet Frazer had no problem engangering his life by hosting on his site the implication that he was involved in the Kingsmills massacre. This despite the RUC and Alan Black (survivor of Kingsmills) saying this was not the case.

Likewise, as has been stated before, he believes Loyalist paramilitaries shouldn't have been jailed. The Catholics and Protestants shot at Greysteel don't count as Innocent Relatives apparently.

The man might have went through a lot, and I'm sorry for his loss, but let's call a spade a spade. He's a bigot.