http://www.theguardian.com/.... Apparently she is now 'free' but not allowed to leave the country. I hope and pray that changes soon.

Amen that things change soon. Yes, saw on CSW Facebook that entire family is only released on bail while the old north & south Sudan fight it out about what paperwork is legal for exiting the country ! As someone stated on CSW comment : "What a mess" !

Well this just took the breath right out of me this morning. I thought this whole saga was over.

Praying for all who are involved.

This persecution has more serious consequences but it in no way diminishes the persecution American Christians are enduring these days. Not that we should be surprised over it. It was told to us that it would happen.

THANK YOU!

Of course it diminishes it-- that's what's so annoying to your camp. While thousands are dying for their faith, you guys are just saying "hey-- look at us, our bakery has to sell cakes to gay people!" as if that should earn you some sort of badge of honor. It's quite sick and offensive to God, actually.

Yawn. The persecution is real and its irrelevant if you think so or not.

Proof, with verifiable links.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore the real news that's your choice.

When you hold a Bible study or attend church are there unmarked cars outside noting who is attending? Have your foreighn born ministers or priests been deported, the native born murdered? Is your favorite radio station still on the air? No midnight explosions? Favorite websites still up? Any archbishops been gunned down recently? Any nuns and lay missionaries been kidnapped, raped, murdered and left in unmarked graves? (google Jean Donovan and/or Ita Ford)

If you're a Catholic do courageous lay people have to smuggle consecrated hosts into your parish at the risk of their lives. Has a specail military unit invaded the local Christian (Catholic, Jesuit) university in the middle of the night leaving six priests, their housekeeper and her daughter dead. In a nehiborhood full of troops nobody "heard" anything.

That was the reality in countries like Guatamala, El Salvador, Argentina and Brazil during the late seventies to early nineties weapons, training and moral support courtesy of the good old USA. Their subersive activities? Teaching the peasants to read and write. Supporting farm cooperatives and labor unions. Reminding them that they too, were created in the image of God.

Sources Philip Berryman, the late Penny Lernoux, Pedro Casaldaliga, Gustavo Guttierez, Leonardo Boff and Jon Sobrino among others. Sobrino was the lone survivor of the university massacre simply because he was teaching overseas at the time. "We just got a phone call. Something terrible has happened."

Persecution takes many different forms. One does not invalidate the other.

Again, proof, with verifiable links. Newstories. Anything that rises above being asked to bake a cake, take pictures. Frankly it never occured to me to take a bible to school. I had enough to keep track of during school hours and (in an era before backpacks and my own car) more than enough
papers, books, and a flute and music scores to hump back and forth.

Real news! "The Denver-based U.S. 10th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a lower-court
decision that struck down [Utah]'s bans on same-sex marriage."

Wahoo! That means that I might soon be able to get married in Kansas which is real close to home.

Two people of the same sex can never make a marriage but you can choose to pretend.

We CAN make a marriage (I told you this in another thread - how quickly you forget) in 20+ states and several countries, and many Christian denominations! I understand you're upset that you won't be able to attend my wedding to my husband (it will be small and just immediate family, I'm sure you understand) but I'll happily invite you to the reception, with lots of cake! Just need your address for the invite!

Thanks, friend!

Edited for weird spacing issues from typing on my phone

Congratulations. May you have a long and happy lfe together. Heck anything that brings a little light and joy into this battered world works for me.

Thanks! We're quickly getting closer and closer to it being a legal reality in my state, which will make it so much easier to get our parents and sisters to the ceremony. (They'd all be sorely disappointed if they weren't part of the day.)

Its something but not a marriage, never will be no matter how much you wish it were.

it will absolutely be a marriage, full of the love, fidelity, and compassion of every other marriage. It's not just wishing. ;)

Anyway, not to derail this subject matter too much! Frank, you could NOT be more wrong about us Christians being persecuted for being Christians in the Western World, where we happen to still maintain a majority influence on culture and morality. Just because you don't agree with the way society is changing on some issues, does NOT mean you are persecuted. You might be getting told you're wrong which isn't persecution.

(For instance, as much as you want to tell me I am wrong, and I disagree with you, the telling me isn't persecuting me. Now, if you try to outlaw my existence and my happiness or my ability to actually practice my religion, then that's persecution. So, don't do that. ;) )

So glad we cleared that up.

Will never be a marriage no matter how many times you say it or wish it.

Proof and links.

We as American Christians are not being persecuted today. Sorry, just not happening. Limitations to our influence and privilege? Maybe. Persecution? Not so much.

Perhaps we're actually getting put back into place where we should be? Instead of in coercive power over the systems of the country, actually in a servant attitude UNDER the systems?

Just thinking out loud...

That sounds about right. Christianity never seemed to be meant to be the oppressive majority power in any society, wielding a Mighty Sword In His Name to smite (or just outlaw) all those who don't share our most rigid tenets of faith. My understanding of serving in Christ's name is that we serve. And help. And love. And make peace.

Which is a wholly different kind of power.

Its there for those with eyes to see. And it will get worse.

Its there for those with eyes to see.

Incidentally, this is the go-to phrase for Christians who insist these are the end-times. When pressed for evidence and specifics, it's always 'open your eyes and look around'. We're looking, buddy. You know what we see? A culture of Christian supremacy and entitlement.

Sad you are comfortable in your blindness.

It's quite telling that instead of actually supporting your claim, you have chosen to fling insults. Quite telling indeed.

What's telling is your willful ignorance of reality. Very telling indeed.

Goodbye, Frank. Have a nice journey to troll somewhere else...

----

Is it....true? Cue Snoopy Dance.

I apparently use my eyes to taste, because I don't see it.

I am not speaking about end times. I am speaking about the very real, and getting worse, Christian persecution in the US.

You can ignore reality if you choose.

Some of us Christians have been proclaiming the end of times is nigh for centuries. Every new generation has "proof" that it is imminent.

I always thought we were to live our lives like the end of times is coming, just not live our lives like it's coming TOMORROW. It seems some people really latch onto the doom and gloom and fear to motivate them, and I think there's so much MORE to God to share with the world.

I suspect her darling "brother" would be happy not only to see her dead, but the husband and the children as well. Him for adultery and the children as bastards. Charming man. Must take after the loser of a father who deserted his family. And yes, stories like this make me very cranky. there's enough pain in the world without going out of your way to ramp it up.

Bakers who don't sell cakes to gay people are bigots who have completely missed the central imperative of Jesus, not heroes.

Wow. Some people are just so eager to expose their ignorance publicly.

I was just thinking the same exact thing.

Says the guy who has destroyed his credibility. Rich, very rich indeed.

Gets a liittle difficult to keep it moderately polite doesn't it? i have several books on conditions in Central and South America in the mid 70's to the early nineties. To say that I was shocked to the very bottom of my soul is pretty mild. The only thing that saved couple of books from bouncing off the wall is that they were old, out of print and pretty fragile.

Religious persecution comes in many forms and degrees. To say what the baker is experiencing or the little boy not being allowed to read his Bible during "free reading" time isn't persecution and worthy of concern is ludicrous! It is only the beginning of what will eventually be death for any Christian who sticks to their guns. What is happening to those being tortured and the like for their Christian stand is horrible, yes. The baker and the little boy are also experiencing persecution to a lesser degree. Again, it is only a matter of time before we all persecuted, folks...seriously.

Mary Dare was persecuted in colonial Massachusetts when she wouldn't quit her Quaker preaching. The colonial authorities hanged her. My great grandfather a few times removed was persecuted. He was a Quaker in Virginia and he refused to tithe to or attend the established church, the Church of England. He spent some time in jail for his pains. Early in Virginia's history the government tried to forbid both Puritans and Quakers from settling there. Being asked to bake a cake for a same sex couple or being asked to read what you're supposed to be reading during the period is not persecution. Give it up.

There will come a day when Christians will not be free to even have a discussion like this.

The baker is a bigot and the kid was reading the Bible during assigned reading time, not free reading time. And the more you squawk about these fake non-persecution stories, the more pathetic your lack of perspective becomes.

It was not assigned reading time, it was FREE reading time: http://www.newstalkflorida....

The baker is NOT a bigot, but a man being forced to act against his convictions http://abcnews.go.com/US/ju...

It was not assigned reading time, it was FREE reading time:

...according to a terse statement from the boy's lawyers. Once you actually do the research, the facts become clear:

http://www.miamiherald.com/...

the student wasn’t asking to read the Bible during a free-reading session but during a classroom “accelerated reading’’ program. The district says it allows Bibles to be included in free-reading periods — this just wasn’t one of them.

In a statement, the Broward school district said it “respects and upholds the rights of students to bring personal religious materials to school, including the Bible, and to read these items before school, after school or during any ‘free reading’ time during the school day. This information has been communicated to the parents of the student involved in this situation.”

Myth busted.

The baker is NOT a bigot, but a man being forced to act against his convictions

...which is the argument he made in court. He subsequently lost, because it is spurious nonsense. If baking a wedding cake is "against his convictions", then why sell cakes? Oh, this was different, you say? What's so different about it? Not the product, but the customer. That has nothing to do with "convictions" and everything to do with being an old-fashioned bigot. I know you folks bristle when I call bigots "bigots", but the word fits the person like a glove.

Those poor, white bus drivers... forced to act against their convictions. What is the world coming to??