So what has Putin achieved if the ceasefire holds?

Well I guess he gets to control a small part of East Ukraine as well as Crimea but he will have to pay to rebuild it.

What Putin will now have is a Ukraine that is very hostile to Russia and will build up its Armed forces as much and as quickly as possible over the next few years. The West has an incentive now to supply and train that Army and Ukraine will join the EU and NATO as soon as it is allowed in.
In 10 years time the Donbas may be another Transnistria but Ukraine may well by then have a Western equipped military capable of putting up a real fight with the prospect of NATO membership and inviting US troops to be stationed within 50 miles of Sevastopol. There would be no land corridor to Crimea, effectively making Sevastopol indefensible in the event of an East West conflict.
The bottom line is that in my view a peace deal now cannot be in Putin's interests and I have no confidence that this is little more than a way of stalling Western sanctions.

Mark my words, Putin has not finished his Ukrainian adventure yet.

Let's not kid ourselves, American "specials" or whatever, and no doubt various types hired by the Kiev governement have been involved in the fighting right since the original sponsored insurrection in March 2014. And I am sure that American special weapons have been pouring in to supplement the basic Russian equipment which both sides have.

That we should have, in Europe in the 21st century, the shelling of civilian areas and now more than a million refugees means the clock has been put back some 70 years, all because the Americans have such short memories and crass current foreign policy.

By the way, I wonder how our four jets, sent to Lithuania was it? about a month ago are getting on. Still operational I wonder?

Latest news from Donetsk: Separatists captured Polish mercenaries. Many thousands foreign mercenaries from countries like USA, Poland, UK and others are fighting on Kiev side in Donetsk, also captures in Mariupol 5 advisors from NATO. Ups they strayed from Brussels headquarters little bit too far, unlike 10 Russian soldiers. HLAVNE SPRAVY SLOVAKIA Doneck 3. septembra 2014 (HSP/RT/Foto:TASR

http://www.hlavnespravy.sk/...

For sure you will not find this on BBC or CNN. So much for a "truth" of "free media" and "balanced reporting".

I don't like to read Slovak as it interferes with my Czech, but I agree with the top commentator there, ie it would be good if there were actually some evidence.

Hahahaha. Cheers.

Now that ISIS has taken near center-stage for the while, NATO can play with itself
in the wings, fantasising about a power that has become-- harsh term, but
appropriate-- 'irrelevant.'

We have yet to see the UN and it's B rate actors pleading for more funds to do their good deeds.

The refugees are fleeing to Russia.They don't know it's an agressor

Have you been to Russia since Perestroika?
Not saying it is perfect, because it isn't, but a choice between 2014 Kiev and 2014 St. Petersburg would be a no-brainer.

Huh. A choice between 2014 anything in Ukraine and Lesnozavodsk would be a no brainer.

Ukraine did nothing during 23 years of independence,bankrupt state

Quite possibly true, but it does not explain why it is such a mess today - that has more to do with US, UK, EU and NATO meddling to use Ukraine as a stick to beat Vladimir Putin.

Well said

Russians are doing what they want with their wealth,whether they have choice or not.Look who is at power in Ukraine.The difference is that they lost independence now and are begging for a penny trading their hatred for Russia

so you're going to "fly in" a rapid response team? better do it now, and by surprise. i mean, who would have known that the russian fighters and AAMs could have shot down all those aircraft?

Just like Benghazi?

obviously you cannot distinguish between the capabilities of Putin's military and the weapons the Benghazi terrorists had available to them. or maybe your comment just SEEMS ridiculous and i have missed something

So you support putin?

huh? why would i desire to see our troops die by being shot down by russians on an ill fated "rapid response" mission?

So you support Putin over the President.
Just wow.

Huh, again. and "wow" on your poor reading skills

Interesting that our media are so full of endless stories that Putin is an evil tyrant and that Russia is the home of all that is terrible in the world. Yet where do so many of those whose lives are wrecked by the Ukraine civil war choose to go as refugees? - Russia - because it is safer than anywhere on offer from the Kiev regime so favoured by Washington, London and the EU.

Our politicians simply have no regard for civilians' lives any more. They are dispensable pawns on their chessboard. Politics must come first, second and third. It does not matter if it is Ukraine, Iraq, Libya, Syria or anywhere else. The West decides to intervene and lives are wrecked wholesale.

I would not be so sure. Kiev soldiers are certainly included in those crossing the border for refuge.

When the UK voted to join the EU (then Common Market) how many could have foreseen that it would turn into a political federal mammoth? A mammoth expanding into so many E. European states to be integrated into its Empire and prepared to start a war with Russia to add Ukraine to its roster despite the opposition of so many Ukrainian citizens. I suppose displaced Ukrainians will be the next delivery of arrivals here, and Ukraine's debts will be added to the EU's financial complications.

What is Putin up to? It's difficult to see any outcome of his policies in Ukraine which will not be disastrous for Russia in the long term. He's provoking an arms race with the West that he cannot possible win, given the huge disparity in GDP between the West and Russia. He has almost totally isolated Russia in the world. His only significant ally now is China (or semi-ally, since China has been careful not to express support for Putin's policy in Ukraine.
This "alliance" is of course very much in China's interest - they get cheap oil and gas, since Russia will not be able to sell to EU countries soon. At some future date China will be able to do in Outer Manchuria what Russia are now doing in Ukraine. A very similar situation - historically it belongs to China - a large ethnic Chines population who would almost certainly prefer to be part of China rather than Russia - Russia will have no allies if this happens after what they have done in Ukraine.
The only reasonably rational explanation I can think of is that this is all intended to strenthen Putin's grip on power. Create a Russia beseiged by enemies - this allows him to introduce further repressive measures to control the Russian population - Goering explicitly stated that this was Hitler's strategy one he gained power - poor Russians. Or perhaps he's just lost his marbles.

For several months now we have read the almost daily claims of the heroic Ukraine army of mercenaries battling against 'Russian' soldiers and armoured columns of Russian tanks which had been 'destroyed' by the same Ukraine Nazi volunteer mercenaries, but not one single photograph or picture was available to support the claims. Now the US/UK/EU financed killers are being driven back all of a sudden there are plenty of news photographs available that show exactly what has been happening on the ground. The UK government, the BBC, The Daily Telegraph and all the other UK based news agencies who printed all the lies and propaganda spouted by Porkshenko, whilst the same time supressing any photographic evidence that existed and was detrimental to the Nazis Junta, ought to hang their collective heads in shame. Their level of misinformation is on the scale of Goebbels...

All thanks to USA "regime-change" meddling & mischief. But as Madeleine Albright said about 500,000 thousand dead Iraqi children: "We think the price is worth it" to achieve American objectives.

Simply by 5 billions and some cakes to seduce old and young

Achieved is a regular headache

Finally some true numbers from western media, they was unexpectedly quiet for many months about true picture of misery in Eastern Ukraine. I guess main reason was because Ukraine army was on offensive against it's own citizens in Donbas region what was OK for US, EU and NATO interests. Now when Ukraine army is loosing, some crocodile tears can be seen. Please note where bulk of the refugees went. TO RUSSIA Not Kiev, so who is the aggressor in this conflict?????

I hope the Russian people appreciate how lucky they've been for Putin to be around at the right time
The war mongering maniacs in the West were planning to asset strip, and plunder Russia, claiming its natural resources while funding serial inter-ethnic tribal wars (Chechens , ISIS and Talibans) just like in Congo,Angola....
In the 1990s, Russian people were driven into starvation and collective suicide under pro American Yeltsin (whom sold the industry to oligarchs) , but Putin kicked the CIA EU Mossad lunatics out and has been re-building a Russia into a world power ever since.
The West is now asset stripping Ukraine , enslaving it into IMF debt , and its people will be driven to mass poverty and extreme hardship.

Let's hope Putin saves Western White European Christian civilization and the children of England and the West from abuse caused by state sponsored neo Marxist multiculturalism and Islamic third world immigration .

My thoughts and prayers go to the families of the 1800 English children sacrificed by the labour pro sharia council ...and many tens of thousands more across England .

The Telegraph: "If this crisis is not quickly stopped, it will have not only devastating humanitarian consequences, but it also has the potential to destabilise the whole region."
Russians and Ukrainians have common roots, common religion and related languages, that is why there was no animosity between the two nations, neither in the Russian Empire, nor in the Soviet Union. Serious manifestations of Ukrainian nationalism took place during the Civil War and the Patriotic War - due to a sharp change in living conditions. The current crisis is also due to the problems in the Ukrainian economy and because of the need to make an unnatural choice between Russia and Europe.
In my opinion, the only way out of the crisis, is to create equal win-win relations for all countries in the region. The current position of the EU and NATO do not allow this, so the conflict will continue in one form or another. It is possible that tomorrow the Ukrainians will direct their hatred against members of NATO.

There is immense hate between Ukrainians and Russians....stop the incorrect Soviet Communist Russian lies....the current problem is due to Ukrainians wanting to be free of Russian imperalism...and, Russians starting to kill people by invading Crimera and Eastern Ukrainian...Russians are more HATED today than 6 months prior....

There were numerous uprisings and wars during czarist times in which Ukrainians fought for their rights and way of life. In the Soviet Union the Gulag was full of Ukrainian detainees be it from the Ukrainian Insurgent Army or other dissidents. Russians and Ukrainians have very different mentalities shaped by their different histories. Moscow was an integral part of Gengis Khan's empire while Ukrainian lands lived under the Lithuanian Statute and Magdeburg law. The whole of Kuban is inhabited by descendants of of Ukrainians deported there by Catherine II for resisting Russian slavery imposed on them. People on this thread should know that in Russia so called "serfs" could be sold like cattle and kids sold separately from their parents by their lords. That's not serfdom - that is slavery pure and simple.

Like Negroes in USA.Ukries Insurgent Army was fighting at the side of fascists,some in SS regiments slaughtering Jews and Poles civilians by thousands.Fascists are fascists

I feel sorry for those volunteers in Mariupol if they actually have to face trained troops.

It makes one cringe.

Of course,it's easier and nice to shell civilians with impunity for the glory of Ukraine

Do not feel sorry Mr. Chichkov, on 8th May this year, 20 unarmed civilians were murdered in Mariupol by the same 'Azov Battalion' (private army formed by Pariuby), altough as such, they do have to watch their backs as well as their fronts. This is the Azov battalion that employs the Wolfangel rune as its emblem, also used by the 2nd Waffen SS Panzer Division for example, its proprietor, btw, helped to form the original 'Social Nationalist' Party of Ukraine', prior to its 2004 rebrand as Svoboda.

I don't know who those people in the photo are, but to me they look like ordinary civilians, not storm troopers.

Yes, we are all human, after all.

I'm not totally conviced that we are all human, more than ever I wonder about the possibility of devils, and demons.
Its proberbly just evil men..

If they are just ordinary civilians with fire arms and they are going to confront trained troops they are going to be slaughtered.

It makes two cringe. ;)

I feel sorry for the people who have to face those EUSSR funded "volunteers".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...

http://www.bbc.com/news/wor...

With his remarks last week, Putin has become the first leader to offensively propose to use nuclear weapons. Until that comment, nuclear weapons have been considered a defensive weapon. By calling Ukraine "New Russia" Putin was as a dog peeing on a fire hydrant, proclaiming it his territory, and telling the world he would nuke anybody who tried to take it away from him.
The world has to decide if they will return to the days of 40+ years ago with underground civil defense shelters, sticking their heads between their legs and hiding everytime some despot copies Putins actions (if sucessful, Putin's actions will surely be copied), and of course for drills, or will they unite to tell Putin "never again" and invite him to leave the world stage.
One can conflate these events with their favorite scape goats, "globalist", "banksters", "Americans", "CIA", "Nazi-Jews" (I read someone blame this new mythical scape goat just this morning), but the plain truth is the events in Ukraine are old fashioned military aggression against a neighboring country. It's been happening in Europe back to the begining of recorded time. But the inevitable outcome of blaming your favorite "boogy-man", is that nothing gets done. Think of your house on fire, and instead of calling the firemen and grabbing a garden hose, a bucket and going to work, the victim flails their hands about and states, "it's the builders fault, he used old wood", or "the globalist have conspired to burn out the working class". The truth is Putin is acting out, in dangerous ways, and with many casualities. Can Europeans tolerate the return to hostilities, and the renewal of old cold war tactics? I don't believe closing our eyes and wishing it away will prove a fruitfull endeavor. I don't believe Putin will give anyone that option.

Bullshit

"With his remarks last week, Putin has become the first leader to offensively propose to use nuclear weapons."

Mr Bush talked about using nukes aginst bunkers in Iraq.
But yeah, he was no leader.

"Can Europeans tolerate the return to hostilities"
Are the people in Geneva and Moscow Europeans, too?

Mr. Bush was at war with Iraq, they had refused to allow IAEA inspectors to observe Sadam Hussiens sarin gas plants, and nuclear facilities.
Russia and Ukraine are not at war, according to Putin, there are no Russian troops in Ukraine, right?
Geneva is in Europe yes. Let us hope some other country does not decide they are now "new ____", and they will nuke anyone who claims otherwise.