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Cats? Are we talkin wild cats, mountain lions, panthers or domesticated?

Fossil B Bear • 8 months ago

How many cats do you think kill Eagles or other large birds of prey?
I have seen a few cats taken by birds of prey, never have I seen these large, slow breeding and in some cases, endangered birds, killed by a domestic cat.
But because a cat kills small birds, in some cases introduced pests, it's OK for wind turbines to kill these large and majestic birds.
The intellectual dishonesty here is staggering.

HiddenPalm • 4 months ago

The American Bird Conservancy proposes "Smart Wind" energy development. Its not mentioned in this article, sadly.
-ensures turbines are located away from high bird collision risk areas;
employs effective (tested) mitigation to minimize bird fatalities;
-conducts independent, transparent, post-construction monitoring of bird and bat deaths to help inform mitigation; and
-calculates and provides fair compensation for the loss of ecologically important, federally protected birds.

Bryan • 11 months ago

Where does the absolutely ridiculous 2.4 billion birds killed by cats come from? That is like 48 million birds per state!?!?! Do you realize absurd that sounds? Wind turbines create pollution in themselves, ie the diesel engine they use when the wind dies down, the water usage, the noise pollution and the fact that they look hideous. I am all for being green by keeping my green in my wallet but many of these technologies are not yet ready and pushing them to market in many cases causes more harm than good. Climate change is not fact, true pollution is bad on that we can all agree but the more this pseudo science is pushed the more the rest of us view you greenies as flat earthers. Also bear in mind the wind turbine mediated avian deaths would increase with....
wait for it...
wait for it...
More wind turbines, I know weird concept. Although less birds crapping on my car not such a bad thing.

vvoiceofreason • 5 months ago

Based on the numbers given its 12.24 birds per cat in the US.

Mauloch Baal • 5 months ago

Your numbers are well off from reality, that means around 196,000,000 million cats in the US which is over double the actual amount. What about the dirty diesel used to power the wind turbine or the noise pollution interfering with bats? It is ironic, those trying to "save" the environment do more to destroy it. In fact you probably power your car with gasoline, have you ever been around a plant that makes gasoline? They reek, a lot, coal on the other hand really no smell. Hell you have probably never held a piece of anthracite, you ought to order some from Amazon. It really is quite pretty, there is a reason it is called black diamonds. You are pushing environmentally damaging tech that is unsustainable, the science needs to be further refined pushing these things to market and subsidizing them is reckless. If they where such a good idea people would jump on board because who doesn't like saving money.

Voice of reason, hah more like voice of insanity.

bobruark • 11 months ago

y'all realize wind turbines kill bats by blasting their inner ears with pressure differentials ... then they die...

TheCatDude • 12 months ago

What types of birds do house cats kill? Are they common birds (such as sparrow) or endangered species such as (some species of) eagles?
I would suspect the former.

grai • 1 year ago

its actually a myth that house cats kill birds in significant numbers modern cat food means the cats are needing to hunt less and less and therefore are not driven to kill birds to survive

bobruark • 11 months ago

you idiot A-hole...it has nothing to do with needing to feed on the birds...read the damn research ... idiots always speak out their ... )o(

George Hampton • 8 months ago

You just proved your own point about idiots. Well done.

blade • 1 year ago

You should tell that to my very well fed cats who leave me regular offerings of dead birds at the front door. They don't even eat them, they just kill them for the thrill of the hunt. So I'd say your notion of a myth is itself a myth.

grai • 1 year ago

No all scientifically researched by putting cameras on cats and loggingtheir activities 24/7 they have absolutely no need to hunt because modern food is satisfying all their nutrition
I would have thought anyone with any sense would know that one cat killing 79,000 birds a year is physically impossible especially a cat owner

Tracy Parrish • 1 year ago

Yes but we have a lot more cellphone towers than wind turbines. Need to factor that in. As turbines become more prevalent the kill factor will sky rocket. Plus as someone else said, house cats don’t kill endangered birds.

bobruark • 11 months ago

oh yes they do. they just kill the small ones...

Bob Smalser • 1 year ago

Cats don't kill Golden Eagles, sonny.

thorverine • 1 year ago

What about the big birds?

bigfoot • 1 year ago

Wind turbines are an exclusion criterium for me. I 'll never spend my vacations in a state or land , where are wind turbines

UnknownEntity • 1 year ago

The cat stats are based on research done using cats that are active hunters. These cats were proficient bird hunters (most are not and prefer rodents). The number of bird kills cited did not involve anyone going around and hunting for corpses on a large scale, they calculated the number based on the kill rate of the cats they observed multiplied by the estimated number of cats in the world as if all these cats were outside hunting. The last time I looked into this, I found that they still had not adjusted their data to reflect cat behavior or to reflect the fact that a lot of cats are kept inside. This is just a number they like to throw out there whenever someone complains about something killing the birds. It is like trying to justify the overkill caused by fishnets by pointing out that fish are all eating each other.

Victoria_nola • 9 months ago

Yes, I'm all for wind turbines, but the cats-kill-birds numbers are just silly.

Mick Boon • 1 year ago

Cat's don't kill eagles , wind turbines kill thousands.

LChad • 1 year ago

We are experiencing a very reduced number of birds at our feeders in Western Mt. since the Columbia Gorge and Great Falls were covered with wind turbines - both are important migratory flyways why/ because birds use the wind to migrate - Wind power is inefficient, uses vast resources of minerals [oil, copper, steel, etc] and landscape [wildlife habitat] - birds are vital to the planet ecosystem... the alt power nuts [Al Gore] are creating imbalance that could prove catastrophic all for political profiteering.

LChad • 1 year ago

acceptable loss? I don't think so.

Safesam • 2 years ago

yea well there are lots of other studies showing that wind turbines kill millions of birds
Also studies showing that the microwave radiation from phone masts disorientate birds (and bees) and so they get lost and die.
Depends what you want to believe.
Why would cats suddenly destroy the bird population when they never have in 1000's of years prevously?? It doesn't make sense.
Whereas man has changed the environment with wind turbines and cell phone towers and the bird populations have gone downhill since then.
Ideology is dangerous when it prevents you from seeing the truth

dunstable dunstable • 2 years ago

This is really ugly. Grasping for something uglier than wind-tower casualties is not a good strategy ... And wind towers have lots of other issues. Here in the northeast they put the damn things on mountaintops, clearcutting the pristine forests for roads and power cables. There's a big debate about Northern Pass, a power line that would bring hydro power through NH to Massachusetts, but little mention of the clearcutting and heavy-duty development, often in pristine alpine environments, caused by wind towers. And their power is so uselessly intermittent---usually providing NOTHING to feed air conditioner demand on a hot/hazy/humid day---that they require the construction of huge gas-from-fracking power plants in the valley below. If you want to do something for the environment, get serious about supporting a real gas tax, and a big tax on jet fuel and fuels used to heat under-insulated homes. Wind Energy is a cop out.

Chamboyette Chou • 2 years ago

I absolutely love this article. It shows just how the USA tries to manipulate people into going against wind energy on the false grounds of caring for birds. Again, fantastic article.

Bob Tavis • 2 years ago

And humans kill 17 billion animals annually.

MacDhomhnaill • 2 years ago

May I ask a BIG favor of people following this thread? I know there are some differences of opinion but this is something everyone can get behind, and perhaps publicize in other social media.

SunEdison has a wind farm on the Hawaiian island of Maui. Over a 20-year span, they are allowed to kill 11 highly-endangered endemic Hawaiian hoary bats, or ʻ ōpe ʻ ape ʻ a (Lasiurus semotus). SunEdison is now asking the Hawaiʻi State Department of Land and Natural Resources for permission to up that number to 62 because in just four years they have killed 19 bats. Statewide, wind farms have already killed 146 bats in 6-7 years out of the 187 they are allowed to kill in 20 years. The response is ALWAYS going to be a request to up the kill number, of course.

SunEdison is proposing to spend more money on habitat conservation, but the reality is that almost nothing is known about the habitat and reproduction of these endemic bats. They just do not know enough to mitigate. The industry puff-piece in the local paper is "State might let wind farm kill more bats," Honolulu Star-Advertiser, 2/24/17 - just in case you want to look it up.

As you might already know, Hawaiʻi has more endangered and extinct species than any other place on Earth.

Would you please submit your comments to this DLNR official: Glenn.M.Metzler@hawaii.gov. The deadline for comments is March 28. Mahalo!

TKen • 2 years ago

It's the type of bird being killed by windturbines. Housecats aren't killing large birds like the woodpeckers whose population is down & they're the main predator of the spruce beetle who're now devasting forests. A true environmental disaster being created by environmentalists. Admit you're wrong before it's too late & millions upon millions of acres of ecosystem are gone.

John Pearson • 1 year ago

The spruce bud and pine beetles are opportunistic and are eating trees that are weakened by drought caused by climate change.

Tim Ray • 2 years ago

my cats never leave the house, to argue they kill more birds is non sequitur these are not

Char Char Binks • 2 years ago

There are probably a few more cats than wind turbines.

Christian Russberg • 2 years ago

just a few. And there are just a few more houses and buildings worldwide than wind turbines.

Lynn • 2 years ago

Oh please, 1.4 billion to 3.7 billion bird deaths just from cats? So between natural causes, cars, windmills, buildings, oil spills and other birds of prey, that would add millions, or billions. Then there would not be any birds left!

Cpl USMC Retired • 2 years ago

Right, so forget about 300,000 birds dying because they are trying to save the earth. Of course that doesn't matter for the hundreds of thousands of birds who won't be around to reap the benefits. If an oil spill killed this many birds, would environmentalist be talking about the insignificant number it represents. Not to mention wind farms and solar plants are killing entire ecosystems, as animals flee the area which has a huge impact on everything from insects to plant life. Let's not even get into the amount of wind turbines and solar panels it would take to actually power a city. This is what happens when you force a change instead of letting it occur naturally. Right now, the problems outweigh the usefulness, but people love it because it is "green" energy... just disregard the bloodshed and the lack of actual energy being produced.

elizabeth adams • 1 year ago
Cpl USMC Retired • 1 year ago

Awesome, although I wouldn't qualify this as true evolution since it is a species mating with another species to make a third species. I have always thought of evolution as confined within one species. Like if a baby cow was born with a mutation and grew up to mate with other cows, and all of those offspring also had the mutation. That would be true evolution in my eyes, but this is still cool.

Matthew • 2 years ago

This article total BS. You haven't fooled anyone Michael Graham Richard.

elizabeth adams • 1 year ago

Can you prove that it is total BS? Because there are many studies out there showing he is spot on.

Hank Erbele • 2 years ago

First, I have an indoor cat. I do however have a hard time thinking that cats kill 2.4 billion birds in the USA every year. I would think most cats reside in urban and suburbs. It seems like if this data is correct, most of us would be stepping on or over bird carcasses on a daily basis. I walk 20 miles a week in and around my city of 70k population, and very rarely see one?

Guest • 2 years ago

Wind mills kill birds because partly the birds brain is not wired to see motion that way.

The solution is to make the blade visible to the birds. If the bird sees it- they will avoid it.

Tim Ray • 2 years ago

why not a federal government program to retrain birds, i am sure there are a lot of bird brain Lefties that would apply for that grant...actually after a friend died his wife had to sell the house and property, she had this bad habit of feeding feral cats and lo and behold they reproduced...we went in and...you know hunted them out of existence....don't go there i own 4 dogs, 2 cats and three parrots...my cats never leave the house and outside i feed the birds twice a day...i actually have a dole of doves that come in at feeding time my neighbors say it looks like Hitchcock's movie The Birds

Matthew • 2 years ago

Keep dreamin.

MacDhomhnaill • 2 years ago

As usual, the devil's in the details. In one instance, turbines are pushing the only indigenous Hawaiian land mammal far closer to extinction. It is a species about which we know almost nothing - habitat, breeding rates, remaing numbers.

Mic Galvin • 2 years ago

Maybe paint the turbines so the Birds can see them.

Matthew • 2 years ago

Are you feeling alright?

Alan Crouch • 2 years ago

To add to this, POWER LINES, would not kill as many birds, as a turbine, no chance, i mean how many wires would a bird need to touch, which are usually spaced in METER's / FEET, apart, making it too far for them to touch.

I do get that birds will fly into the cables, yes, but the cables were made bigger due to this, and well, since we destroyed so many trees for birds to sit in, i am more than sure, you see birds on these wires, pretty often, dont you, in fact i am pretty sure you see birds nest's, hold up, EAGLES NEST's, sometimes built in these structures, dont you??

I am not justifying the cable issue, but i am saying, we never subtracted, without NATURAL SELECTION having a chance to adapt, meaning, birds flew into wires, birds got hurt, birds learned from mistake and passed it on to future birds.

Yet, turbine, gives bird false lift when pushing air up on the say 8 o'clock to 12 o'clock position, a bird, already in a hot dry open area, naturally will take that draft to gain lift and save energy, but after the blade goes past 12 o'clock, what happens IDIOTS, i mean intelligent people saying this is right?

What happens is, due to gravity, as well as the blade, pushing air up from 8 - 12 o'clock, will now push air??? That will do what... EXACTLY, the upstream air, for the bird, is gone, so the bird, flaps its wings, using its energy, yes natural, oh wait, no, ADDING THE GRAVITY FACTOR to that, means even if that bird, had more energy than usual that day, there is little chance it would have enough force, to move out of the next blades path, since the whole glide was pulled towards the blade, then the whole vacuum down, is towards the old blade, meaning the next blade... 99 percent of the time will hit the bird.

TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY, how many people, full grown adult people, have been hit by fan blades say 1/1000th of the size, and died? If 1/100th of the size, its instant death for a full grown strong MALE HUMAN, so a bird more than 1/4th less in size, what would a blade of a turbine mean when it hits a bird, and AMAZINGLY, for EAGLES / FALCONS / bigger birds, they usually will still survive, after being hit by what, a ton of metal, then falling how many meter's / feet, hitting a hard as rock floor, and they somehow will still move around a bit till they bleed out or scavengers eat them. For a human, 1 ton metal hits a human, DEAD, then the fall, at the top of a turbines apex, what is that 50 - 70m i am guessing, a human from 20m fall is usually DEAD, so that 2 x DEAD, yet most birds are still alive.

***MESSAGE*** learn from this humans, why are they surviving? FOR THE AMERICAN's, yes, this would mean a money making incentive, if research into this was to develop something for HUMANS. ***MESSAGE***

elizabeth adams • 2 years ago

Power lines do kill many, many more birds than wind turbines.

Alan Crouch • 1 year ago

Odd, the time that there have been powerlines all over the earth compared and the amount of birds seen daily never seemed to get any less, compare it to the very huge increase in such a short period of wind turbines, to which i dont even see birds some days, and i am in South Africa, in a space of 10 years it has gone from huge flocks of birds all over the sky every day to being lucky to see maybe more than 2 species if any, in a day.

Priscilla Ross-Fox • 2 years ago

Eagles will get electrocuted by power lines that are too close to each other but they also die by cars and poisoning by Methomyl an insecticide (used off label, ie: illegal, to poison rodents). It's not that the eagles actually eat the poison but the nuisance animals that have been poisoned by it.
As far as wind turbines go, the only ones I have ever seen were turning so slow that I have always wondered how birds get hit.
I need educating. Aren't these turbines under control? How fast do they turn? The only thing I know is they appear HUGE to me when on a truck.