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Re: It depends on what the meaning of ‘intelligence’ is

macsurf — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:02:50 -0000

I love it.
With nearly two full disastrous terms of GW Bush coming, thankfully, to an end, neo-con apologists are still trying to blame
Bill Clinton for Junior's mistakes.
The Bushies and their neo-con enablers are genetically incapable of taking responsibility for their own fiascos.
Just imagine if Jack Kennedy, after the Bay of Pigs disaster, went on national TV and said, "Yeah, I may be president now, but the truth is it was the Eisenhower-Nixon team that put this thing in motion. By the time I came along, the thing was so far along in the pipeline I could not stop it, even though I had grave misgivings about it.
Even though that was all true, Jack Kennedy went before the American people and took full responsibility for a disastrous military operation that, for the most part, had been planned and organized on his predecessor' watch.
That was leadership, a quality draft dodging neo-cons like Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Perle, and our often AWOL comander in chief know nothing about.
And as for Ken Johnson's question as to why we should believe the latest NIE on Iran when the intelligence communities got so much wrong in relation to both Iraq and Iran in the past, the truth is there were dissenting intelligence voices in 2003 and 2005 but the administration did not want those voices to be heard, and much of the so called "liberal" media, out of fear of being called "unpatriotic" or "soft on terror", went along with the whole scam.
A little over a year to go, let's just hope as the neo-cons and Republicans grow increasingly desperate, they don't do some truly irreparable harm to the nation and the world.

Re: The problem in a nutshell

macsurf — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:44:44 -0000

You gotta love the anti-tax jihadists.
They are using the reprehensible actions, or inactions, of a bad cop as an example of why people are opposed to any increases in property taxes
Mr. Benton even suggested this rogue cop is also an example of why so many people would abolish the income tax if they could.
Come on.
It's all propaganda on the part of the anti-tax jihadists who love to follow the anti-tax cult leader Barbara Anderson right over the cliff of communal and civic destruction.
It is because of selfish people like the anti-tax jihadists that the town of Saugus had to scrap its entire after school sports program.
It's because of the selfish anti-tax jihadists that the city of Gloucester is forced to choose between paying a bad cop in the name of "public safety" and funding music and art programs in the schools
But what realy galls me about many of the anti-tax jihadists is their hypocrisy.
Currently in Newburyport and Newbuy,some residents of those towns who live on Plum Island have formed a group that is asking both communities to provide $1500 a month in taxpayer dollars to procure the services of a Wahington DC firm to lobby Congress to help them protect their properties from beach erosion.
Now, I know at least two people involved with that group who were vociferous in their opposition to any efforts to allow for an override to provide increased funding for the schools and other municipal services.
Yet, they have no problem asking for tax dollars to pay a DC lobbying group to advocate on their behalf before Congress.
I mean, can we talk hypocrisy here?
I don't mind paying taxes to fund the schools and other important community services.
But I take great umbrage at having some nouveau riche, bourgious bohemian, anti-tax jihadist, who's stupid enough to build an architecturally bankrupt trophy house on a tiny lot, on a barrier island that, when a storm like Katrina hits, is going to all but disappear, expect my tax dollars to bail him out of his own stupid decision making.
But that's often the true nature of the anti-tax jihadist beast, they personify what my late brother used to call "I've got mine, so to hell with everybody else."

Re: The problem in a nutshell

macsurf — Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:44:44 -0000

Re: It depends on what the meaning of ‘intelligence’ is

macsurf — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 08:58:13 -0000

"Unintelligible hogwash"?
What, pray tell, was unintelligible about what I wrote?
Look at the record Mr. Carlson and Mr. Johnson.
There was plenty of other intelligence that called into question the "intelligence" the Bushies used to justify their unnecessary invasion of Iraq and their nuclear claims about Iran.
Members of the intelligence community were warning the administration that the head of the Iraqi National Congress, Chalabi, his first name escapes me, was a fraud. Almost all the information he provided was known to be bogus long before the invasion began.
The Bushies would have none of it. He was their man, and like Tammy Wynette, the Bushies stood by him and believed all the mullarkey he fed them, or they claimed to believe it because the BS fit in with their policy agenda.
So did much of the so called "liberal" media as well.
Both US intelligence and US & UN weapons inspectors were sounding the alarm that the Bushies' WMD claims were, at the very least, overblown and, at worst, dead wrong.
US inspector David Kay has been blunt about it. When asked about the WMD after this misbegotten invasion began, he simply said, "There weren't any."
Colin Powell has called his fiction filled speech at the UN, a speech the Bushies once thought would be an "Adlai Stevenson UN Moment", an ..."indelible stain..." on his career and reputation.
Intelligence experts were urging the Bushies to cool their anti-Iran rhetoric before the Iraq invasion, and into 2004/2005 when serious questions remained as to how far along Teheran's nuclear weapons program may or may not have been.

Many inteligence and foreign policy experts believe the Bushies played a major role in bringing the current crackpot of an Iranian president to power.
Now, Mr. Johnson and Mr. Carlson, don't faint dead away - at least not yet.
After 9-11, as it became clear the Bushies were going to use that tragic day as a pretext to launch their long longed for invasion of Iraq, Ahmadinejad's predecessor, whose name escapes me too, ( I think that has something to do with turning 50), allowed the US Navy to use at least one Iranian port as a staging area.
When US pilots, whose planes were damaged flying sorties in Afghanistan, were forced to abandon their craft over Iranian territory, the former president dispatched the Iranian military to rescue them and return them to the proper American officials.
When the Taliban fell in Afghanistan, the former Iranian president was a key, behind the scenes, player in brokering the deal that brought the Bush backed Ahmed Karzai to power.
Many veteran Middle East hands at the State Department saw those olive branches as opportunities to begin to thaw out the long frozen relations between the two countries.
The Bushie neo-cons would have none of it.
Instead of displaying even quiet, private gratitude for the Iranian president's assistance, the neo-cons ratcheted up the anti-Iran rhetoric to unprecedented levels, culminating with Junior's reckless and regrettable "axis of evil" speech. Such public, verbal asaults, most analysyts of Mid East politics say, fueled a wave of angry Iranian nationalism that helped to defeat the moderate, helpful incumbent and bring the crackpot we deal with today to power.
Funny thing though, all the rhetoric about Iran being such an "evil" country didn't stop Dick Cheney's company, Halliburton, from doing a very lucrative business inside Iran in direct violation of US law.
But that's for aother posting.
Finally, I just want Mr. Carlson to know that, yes, I am a liberal.
And, as a liberal, I am as offended and disgusted by all the sleazy things we saw go on in the Clinton years as he is.
That is why you won't find me voting for Hillary Rodham Clinton on a bet.
In fact if, come next November, my only choice is between America's Eva Peron and Ragin' Rudy, or Matinee Mitt, or Holier Than Thou Huckabee, I may, for the first time in the 32 years since I've been able to cast a ballot for president, sit this one out.
I might even make my part time expat status in Costa Rica permanent.

Re: It depends on what the meaning of ‘intelligence’ is

macsurf — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:44:24 -0000

Mr. Carlson, with all due respect, it is you who is operating in a fog.
You failed to address a single one of the issues I raised.
Halliburton, the company once headed by Dick Cheney, was reaping large profits doing business with Iran at a time when such practices were illegal and Cheney's current boss, our Supreme Court appointed president, was calling Iran "evil". It is a major reason why Haliburton not long ago moved its corporate hdqtrs to Dubai. That way they can operate aywhere they want and not have to abide by anything so archaic as US law.
How "patriotic" is that?
The Bushies had an opportunity to, if not fully normalize relations with Iran, at least improve them and they blew it.
We now have enemies thru out the Middle East because of a war that never should have been launched.
As for the Valerie Plame thing, there is really no difference between revealing the identity of a CIA employee, who in fact, was operating under cover, by senior member/members of the Bush administration in a fit of political revenge, and destroying a tape that is evidence of the fact the US had been employing torture at the very same time the president was saying torture was something the US did not engage in or condone.
They are both examples of the kind of sleezy, often illegal tactics this administration engages in with reckless abandon.
I am sorry Mr. Carlson that you cannot admit you and others of your ilk got sold a big old bill of goods when you threw your support behind this incompetent, ne'er do well son of great privilege who's been bailed out of every mess he ever got into, up until this one, by his daddy and daddy's cronies.
But then I guess it's always hard to admit when you've been played for a sucker by someone you thought you could trust.
Happy Holidays!

Re: Tierney has some questions

macsurf — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:47:17 -0000

Come on Uncle Bunky, can't you do better than resorting to name calling?
And Bilge Rat, are you incapable of thinking for yourself?
There are very real reasons to question the wisdom behind dumping tens of millions of dollars of American aid into a country like Pakistan which, even before the chaos that's followed Bhutto's assassination, was riddled with corruption and questions as to just how much of the US aid was actually getting to its intended beneficiaries.
Add to that the corruption and incompetence of many of the companies the Bush administration has awarded billions in contracts to all over the world (does the name Blackwater ring any bells?) and I'm darned glad John Tierney, and even a few congressional Republicans, are asking such questions.

Re: Tierney has some questions

macsurf — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:47:17 -0000

Re: Tierney has some questions

macsurf — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:06:11 -0000

So am I bilge rat, that's no excuse!

Re: Tierney has some questions

macsurf — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:06:11 -0000

So am I bilge rat, that's no excuse!

Re: Tierney has some questions

macsurf — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:31:29 -0000

And let's not forget about Neil Bush's involvement in the Silverado Savings and Loan scandal. He was on the board of the S&L in Colorado, just one of many S&L's, that cost taxpayers billions!!
It was a bipartisan scandal of the highest order.
But the 1988 federal investigation into Silverado, and Neil Bush's involvement in it, was put on hold until after Poppy Bush was elected.
Ultimately, Neil Bush was fined several million dollars, he was lucky to avoid jail time, but to date he has paid back less then 30 thousand dollars of the court fines against him.
Ah, to have friends and family, regardless of party affiliation, on your side.
So bilge rat, maybe we have more in common than you think.

Re: Tierney has some questions

macsurf — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:31:29 -0000

Re: Sky’s the limit for Laboy

macsurf — Sat, 05 Jan 2008 08:53:26 -0000

And people have the nerve to say teachers are overpaid?
A chauffeur?
Mr. Laboy shouldn't be just questioned by the state Board of Eduaction, he ought to be fired for such arrogance and selfishness.

Re: Sky’s the limit for Laboy

macsurf — Sat, 05 Jan 2008 08:53:26 -0000

And people have the nerve to say teachers are overpaid?
A chauffeur?
Mr. Laboy shouldn't be just questioned by the state Board of Eduaction, he ought to be fired for such arrogance and selfishness.

Re: Sky’s the limit for Laboy

macsurf — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:57:18 -0000

Thank you, Allen.
I don't live in Lawrence, I haven't in more than four decades.
But my Irish family's roots run deep in the immigrant city and I've grown tired of people bad mouthing Lawrence, at times for nothing more than racist reasons as the ethnic mix of the city changed thru the years.,I'm equally tired of incompetent, arrogant civil servants, whether it's LaBoy or Jim Sculley, exploiting a struggling city to enrich themselves and feed their egos.

Re: Sky’s the limit for Laboy

macsurf — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:57:18 -0000

Re: Another Ogonowski run

macsurf — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:40:45 -0000

Hey Bilgerat,
Don't forget Kerry has an opponent on the Democratic side as well, Attorney Ed O'Reilly of Gloucester.
Many Democrats, perhaps for different reasons, are as tired as John Kerry as you are.
O'Reilly is building a fairly effective grass roots organization around the state.
What his chances are, only time will tell. But not all Democrats are the "sheeple" you seem to think we are.
Hope you weathered th storm OK

Re: Another Ogonowski run

macsurf — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:40:45 -0000

Re: Another Ogonowski run

macsurf — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:33:42 -0000

Bilge Rat and Mr.Carlson, I completely agree with both of you on so many things.
Mr. carlson, ur 100% right that we don't necessarily need better candidates, regardless of their party affiliation.
America desperately needs more informed voters who can think for themselves and see through the smoke and mirrors of propaganda candidates from both parties blow in their faces.
How nice that we, with me as a liberal, and the two of you being obviously far more conserative than I, can find such civil, common ground upon which to disagree.
Oh, if only the rest of this deeply troubled country could do the same.

Re: Another Ogonowski run

macsurf — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:33:42 -0000

Re: Another Ogonowski run

macsurf — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:19:20 -0000

Mr. Carlson, with all due respect, that's just a little too simplistic for me.
And to what "evil incumbents" are you referring?
George Walker Bush? the man who misled us about the reasons for going to war in Iraq?
Dick Cheney? The man who ran a company prior to becoming vice president that was doing a lucrative business with Iran, in violation of both US law and policy, at the same time he and bonny Prince George were declaring Iran a member of the "axis of evil".
There's no doubt we face major problems in this country. Some of them are the result of failed liberal policies, just as many, however, are the result of equally failed conservative policies.
Perhaps if we could all be honest about that reality, we might really stand a chance of fixing those problems.

Re: Another Ogonowski run

macsurf — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:19:20 -0000

Re: Another Ogonowski run

macsurf — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:48:44 -0000

Hey BilgeRat,
You'll get no argument from me on this one. Vets should come first.
But we also need to look at why so many vets, from this current war and those that came before, continue to fall thru the cracks.
I have a good friend who's a social worker at the big vet's hospital in Augusta, Maine. He'll tell you the budget cuts of the last seven years for veteran services, ironically when the chicken hawk, draft evading Bushies were sending a whole new generation of Americans into harms way, have devastated the ability of people like my friend to help those brave vets who now so desperately deserve their country's support.
Vets should be at the top of the list for everything from housing to substance abuse and mental health counseling. Unfortunately, thanks to the Bushies' wanting to do everything on the cheap, that is not what is happening.
The whole system is a mess.
Ah well, what are two peons like you and me to do?

Re: Another Ogonowski run

macsurf — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 16:48:44 -0000

Re: Another Ogonowski run

macsurf — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:43:39 -0000

Well, for starters because of the Bush budget a program that provided outreach services to homeless and substance abuse vets has been trimmed back to the bone.
There is no money for the programs because so much has been given away to the already wealthy via the Bush tax cuts.
You cant't cut taxes while fighting a war and expect to adequately fund and supply the guys in the field, let alone help them out when they come home.
What I find ironic about todays's neo-conservatives is they abhor taxes, even when the country is at war. But most seem to have forgotten conservatives during the Vietnam War criticized Lyndon Johnson harshly for not having the guts to RAISE taxes to adequately prosecute that conflict and fund veterans' services at home.
How quickly some forget!

Re: Another Ogonowski run

macsurf — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:43:39 -0000