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Re: Like Poisoned Butterflies...

edianes — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:55:32 -0000

While I was doing all sorts of web searches looking for a literal, fact-y way into the poem, I kept coming across a 2005 Natasha Tretheway essay in Callaloo called "On Close Reading: Yusef Komunyakaa's 'White Lady,'" locked behind a paywall. It was an uncharacteristic splurge for me, but I bought the back-issue. The essay's an answer to a 1999 reviewer who was offended by what she took to be the poem's portrait of white women. Tretheway argues against that (disturbing) interpretation, pointing out that the "white lady" is the milk/gin/metho mixture from Australia, where alcoholism has devestated the Aboriginal population. The cocaine slang is part of the meaning, sure, and no doubt the echo of Lucille Clifton's poem "white lady" is intentional, but it's not primary. Frankly, I think the "white woman" thing is part of the meaning, too, but not at all primary. (Incidentally, I was gratified to see that Tretheway seems to have made the same mistake I initially did about "King Billy"-- amnesiac's link clearly points to the main meaning there. How any of us would have figured that out without the internet in its current glory, Lord knows.)

Tretheway's takeaway from the poem is so completely opposed to the proposition that the truth about this poem is subjective that it's worth quoting: "Komunyakaa's work is psychologically demanding; it is intellectually demanding as well, requiring that readers be willing to attend to its cultural, literary, and historical references. In Komunyakaa's poems, such work does not go unrewarded. The poems deepen and open up a window into experience that might otherwise go overlooked."

That said, I'm not disagreeing with the point of the post-- you can get genuine aesthetic pleasure from the poem's music and images. But... you really, really do at least need to know that this poem's got to do with Australia.

Re: Like Poisoned Butterflies...

edianes — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:20:41 -0000

I know this is all coming way too long after the post to make an impact, but here's another pull from the Tretheway essay; it's so appropriate I'm tempted to think you picked "White Lady" for this post with her essay in mind: "Readers bring all sorts of things with them when they read and respond to poems and in this way a poem is collaborative in that the reader 'completes' it. ["the partnership between my imagination and his writing"!] With that collaboration comes an element of responsibility-- the poet's, in terms of a clarity of thought or emotion, and the reader's, in terms of the intellectual work required to give a reasoned interpretation of the diction, syntax and so on. Perhaps Daniels [the aforementioned 1999 reviewer] was too busy seeing herself in the poem's title (as opposed to losing herself in the world of the poem) to give it the close reading it deserves." Seriously, Australia is essential here.

Re: Like Poisoned Butterflies Cont.

edianes — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:43:23 -0000

Hey, thanks! (And thanks for cleaning up my devestating spelling error.) For what it's worth, I completely agree that the personal emotional response to art is where the real value lies. In school, my essays on lit that I wholeheartedly loved consistently got lower grades than essays on lit that I was indifferent toward or even hated; I still wouldn't trade that love for a more clear-eyed, universal view of those works. The Komunyakaa poem didn't hit me immediately at the bone, which is exactly why I tried to puzzle out what was going on there. I got rewarded with the resulting awe at its fierce complexity, but that's a different, maybe less deep, kind of satisfaction than a hit of emotional recognition is, even when what you're recognizing isn't exactly what was most straightforwardly said.

Re: Professional Bigot Pat Robertson Does It Again

edianes — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 20:44:49 -0000

@Cochise Morris

I pretty much agree 100% with Ta-Nehisi's take and tone in the post, and with most of what you said. Don't flatter him with the term "redneck," though-- rednecks aren't all bigots, and despite the accent, Robertson was born into a wealthy family and hasn't spent a lot of time out in the fields getting a farmer's tan. But, yeah, the fact that he could say something like that while reports are coming in of thousands of the the survivors gathering in public squares to sing hymns together is stomach-turning. There aren't words strong enough to condemn that.

Re: "The Jackson Whites" - Personal - The Atlantic

edianes — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 07:28:39 -0000

I'm surprised no one's brought up the fact that, based on the description in the article (ATVs, firearms, old "aunts" who know about herbal remedies, big American flags, poverty/self-sufficiency, distrust of the government, squirrel-eating, dealing with pollution from mining companies, close extended families), the Ramapough Mountain Indians sound like cultural twins of a lot of the people in the lower Appalachians. Even the identification with Indians-- lots and lots of white people in the Appalachians will claim that a great-great-great-grandparent was Cherokee, and often, though not always, the claim's true. To the degree that race is culture, it seems like they're basically white, or at least as white as my own hillbilly forebears. Of course, race isn't 100% culture, but maybe the most appropriate ethnic term for the Ramapough Mountain people would be the one that's usually chosen in the Appalachians these days, according to surveys: American.

Re: Harness On Our Back - Personal - The Atlantic

edianes — Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:50:17 -0000

It looks like what I was taught in junior high in the '90s for essays was a somewhat modified version of the Schaffer paragraph. That formula carried me through college. Say what you like about it, like almost any writing formula, it can both spur and rein in creativity with good results. And it can make for truly elegant essays by student standards, with each body paragraph recapitulating the structure of the essay as a whole. I'm pretty psyched to realize there was a real person behind it-- Schaffer's a rockstar, as far as I'm concerned!

Re: CHM Epilouge--Cassius Clay - Personal - The Atlantic

edianes — Wed, 05 May 2010 12:12:37 -0000

Cassius M. Clay actually donated the land for Berea College! The Kentucky abolitionist who founded it was John Gregg Fee. The school has an incredible history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berea_College).

ETA, after seeing Mister 6's post: It's where my parents met, too-- clearly Berea inspires a fair amount of second-generation enthusiasm!

Re: Making The Argument - National - The Atlantic

edianes — Thu, 20 May 2010 21:50:00 -0000

I think I may not be understanding the analogy completely. Are you comparing state and local governments to a 13 y.o. kid, the federal government to a babysitter/housekeeper, the physical house in general to American society/culture, the glass to the right of free association for private businesses insofar as it potentially involves racial discrimination, and the homeowner/parent to... the voters? the American citizenry? right-thinking people?

These comment threads have been pushing me to take a harder look at some of my knee-jerk "for the most part, the fewer laws, the better" principles (gnikivar's point upthread about the large role government plays in supporting private businesses in practice today muddying the waters with regard to what role government should in practice today play in limiting those businesses-- whether or not the supporting role is one I'd consider ideal-- hit home with me). But I will admit that seeing any level of government approvingly compared to a babysitter, even if the baby in the analogy is another layer of government, does raise a knee-jerk "Yikes!" from me.

Re: Open Thread at Noon - Culture - The Atlantic

edianes — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 17:08:39 -0000

I would be interested; keep me in the loop on this!

Re: Open Thread at Noon - Culture - The Atlantic

edianes — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 12:59:15 -0000

I'm in. Sunday the 27th is the day of the Pride Parade, though, which might be a conflict for some people?

Re: The Problem With Being Black - Culture - The Atlantic

edianes — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:44:40 -0000

I may be way off base, because I haven't read it, but isn't this basically Thomas Sowell's thesis in "Black Rednecks and White Liberals"?

Re: Slaves Who Liked Slavery - Culture - The Atlantic

edianes — Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:08:28 -0000

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks to me like her husband was born in Georgia, and his father was born in Africa and his mother in Georgia. My first thought was that his being listed as Mulatto would have meant his mother was white, which struck me as unusual (how many white women had children born into slavery?) until it occurred to me that of course his mother could easily have been mixed herself.

Having the census record is super-cool, though. Even on the off-chance that it's not the same Clara Davis, it's amazing to have these tiny windows into these 19th-century lives. Thanks for pointing them out!

Re: The Chronic - National - The Atlantic

edianes — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 15:26:56 -0000

I hope someone else who knows more about this will respond, but my understanding is that it's because the Supreme Court's interpretation of the Commerce Clause has dramatically broadened the powers of the federal government since Prohibition.

Re: The Chronic - National - The Atlantic

edianes — Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:14:11 -0000

I really hope this comes up again tomorrow and that someone who knows a lot more about it than I do will go into depth on it. My understanding is that the 18th Amendment was necessary at that time because a law restricting the sale and manufacture of alcohol within states would have been unconstitutional, since the 10th Amendment's commerce clause prevents Congress from regulating commerce unless it's interstate. But under FDR, the Supreme Court began to interpret the Commerce Clause much more broadly, allowing Congress to regulate things that are a pretty big stretch to include under "interstate commerce"-- Wickard v. Filburn (1942) established that Congress could regulate, for instance, growing wheat for private consumption. That's the precedent that the Supreme Court used in 2005's Gonzales v. Raich, which established that the Controlled Substances Act applies to California medical marijuana patients growing marijuana for purely private use-- the three dissenters who supported the marijuana users were O'Connor, Rehnquist, and Thomas. And I'm fighting the urge to deliver an impassioned but probably badly informed libertarian sermon, so I really hope someone else steps in and brings more knowledge than I've got.

Re: Open Thread at Noon - Culture - The Atlantic

edianes — Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:09:19 -0000

Yes, still interested in doing this.

Re: Frigor! - Politics - The Atlantic

edianes — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:55:26 -0000

Anna Sturgeon's expression is entirely appropriate, but her description's a little off: Cheerwine doesn't taste much like any kind of cherry; it tastes like Coke that is very, very RED. It looks a little red, but much less red than it tastes. And the haters are wrong - it's the greatest soft drink of all (though in light of this post, maybe I just think that because I only got to drink it on visits to North Carolina when I was little).

Re: Frigor! - Politics - The Atlantic

edianes — Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:16:55 -0000

Well, the red and purple are fake berry (sweet!) flavors and the green and yellow are the fake citrus (sour! and also sweet!), so there's natural conflict there. Personally, I always went for both the red (#1) and the green (#2), which I am going to say is because they are more subtle, refined versions of purple and yellow.

Re: The chore of sex - Politics - The Atlantic

edianes — Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:53:28 -0000

Probably just General Sex, or even just anything involving Privates?

Re: Open Thread At Noon - Culture - The Atlantic

edianes — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 12:27:29 -0000

You should be glad you had the moxie to introduce yourself! I didn't, but I will back you up on how strong TNC's novel sounds like it will be, and also on Tayari Jones: she was fantastic, made me homesick for Georgia, and left me wondering why on earth I hadn't heard more about her before.

Re: It's All Mathematics - Ta-Nehisi Coates - National - The Atlantic

edianes — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:12:30 -0000

Are you kidding? I thought the fact that it's really about class is why the site's funny. It's calling out people who conflate class/race in that way. You know what a "WASP" is - think about whether that remotely describes most of the lower-middle class white, Anglo-Saxon protestants in America.

Re: It's All Mathematics - Ta-Nehisi Coates - National - The Atlantic

edianes — Wed, 15 Sep 2010 22:36:42 -0000

That's totally understandable if you only look at a few of the items on the site-- in a lot of them, though, you'll see references to "the wrong kind of white people" (i.e., lower-class white people). Here's a link to an Atlantic article from a few years ago where Lander explains the choice to call a demographic that's really "well-off, well-educated, youngish, self-described progressives" "white people": http://www.theatlantic.com/.... But Lander's not the only one who does it: the music that TNC calls "white music" isn't usually on the playlists of the same socio-economic demo that digs Carrie Underwood or Van Halen, and I think all of us are aware that cucumber sandwiches aren't the snack of choice in rural trailer parks, but we know what he means when he associates those things with "white people".

Re: Open Thread at Noon - Ta-Nehisi Coates - Culture - The Atlantic

edianes — Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:53:20 -0000

"GOOD COUNTRY PEOPLE was about mediocre and bad country people." It's the "mediocre" that takes this from funny to painfully hilarious. You and Glo both totally have all my sweet regards.

Re: Because There Are No Racists... - Ta-Nehisi Coates - National - The Atlantic

edianes — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 06:31:48 -0000

I think I see where you're coming from, but... um, no? If you tell me a certain person is shy or another person has unfounded confidence coming out the ears, and that's all you tell me, I've got absolutely no information to help me determine the race of either of those people. If it were a defining trait of Euros... well, for one small thing, Hamlet would have been inconceivable.

Re: Because There Are No Racists... - Ta-Nehisi Coates - National - The Atlantic

edianes — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:24:30 -0000

Yeah, I suspected it wasn't in dead earnest, but I guess I couldn't leave it alone. Never hurts to spell things out for the slow (in this case, me), so: thank you!

Argh, edit, myself: I haven't thought or read enough about it globally to make any kind of definitive statement, but I'd be surprised if Euros had a lock on overweening self-confidence in a global sense, either. I mean, Genghis Khan and Shaka Zulu weren't exactly shrinking violets (but shamefully I haven't read enough about either to know what their situations were like comparatively. Give me some time, Anonymous!) Also, I am incredibly jealous of your screenname.

Re: Blacks Who Support Black Confederate Mythology - Ta-Nehisi Coates - National - The Atlantic

edianes — Mon, 01 Nov 2010 19:20:55 -0000

You've never heard hillbilly-bashing before, Austin? That said, I'm intrigued by Raven's ideas and think he might have some good points in there. To my shame, I haven't read Albion's Seed, but I think a lot of Raven's characterizations of the "borderlands" folks (probably the majority of my own ancestry) seem pretty plausible. Two problems immediately jump out, though: 1) the "no challenge to elite thinking" thing seems waaaaaay off base. There are a lot of things to find fault with Jackson for, but I'm not sure kowtowing to the elite is one of them. 2) I don't quite see how the pathologies of the Confederacy can be credibly blamed on the type of people who are most heavily concentrated in West Virginia. Wouldn't the Cavalier culture be a more logical place to look for that sort of thing? And I appreciate Alabama Girl's spirited defense of the borderlanders, but I think she's not going to get very far trying to set them up as victims of the Anglo-Saxons... I'm under the impression that while there's a good deal of Scottish admixture, they basically are Anglo-Saxons.