Disqus - Latest Comments for agman

Re: Whose Fault Is It Anyway?

agman — Fri, 07 May 2010 11:28:35 -0000

Agreed, was once in a position of defending a "bad" teacher before the super with point being there was absolutely no documentation, no evidence of principal ever indicating anything negative to teacher, and not suggestions for teacher making change, etc. Truthfully the entire teacher organization agreed that teacher should be gone, but without any effort to build a case there was an issue of "due process" failure. Fortunately for the system even thro the teacher was not dismissed, she left the system.

Re: Whose Fault Is It Anyway?

agman — Fri, 07 May 2010 09:57:22 -0000

TA, may be right about some teachers and involvement in larger than classroom management, but my experience both within my field and others (retired but still active with many activities) is that teachers do wish to have input into what are the goals and objectives of their field and going further into sharing ideas of curriculum content and related activities. My area has history of on-going involvement by teachers state wide being involved in actually authoring course content for state wide distribution, workshops, advocating involvement by state universities and Ivy Tech and working with them on wide variety of activities, etc. (Example: just a few minutes ago I shared thoughts on an activity with all the teachers in the subject statewide and beyond--and I am an old retired teacher.)

Re: Whose Fault Is It Anyway?

agman — Fri, 07 May 2010 08:34:49 -0000

Amen to many of TA's points. "Bad" Teachers can be removed with adequate and professional documentation by administrators. But a question as to why dump on teacher contracts about senority when contracts between unions and employers in any area always have senority clauses. Again, all the slamming of teachers organizations have a historical basis for existing that few today if less than 60 years of age would have any understanding of. The day of firing a teacher for no reason necessary was a reason many teachers sought protection in a corporation that gave them some rights. The decisions concerning education in our system have a lay board involved ---back in the day--those boards (or trustees) could unilaterally impose and fire without reasonable basis for any decisions. Painting the teachers as only interested in pay and protection is very short sighted. Been there done that as a teacher organization president of a local where was one of the first ten corporations in Indiana with a "master contract" and it was simple but allowed for discussion (board still maintained final control) of wide variety to issues rather than simply telling the professionals what they were to do. The issue is far greater than the frequent posters here on constantly slamming "government" schools. If they had been teachers rather than students in some of the private (read religion based) schools they might have understand that simply having a top down dictatorial administration did not/does not always serve everyone well.
Professional educators are there to provide more than daily instruction but are capable of being involved in curriculum and other decisions but if they are silenced by "rules" then a terrible waste of potential is lost.

Re: Indiana’s “Race to the Top” is Over

agman — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 18:36:31 -0000

My, my--a lot of bitterness out there. And, all so well informed they leave no room for saying anything against their points. One would wonder why everyone can not see the wisdom of their words and simply roll over in the face such overwhelmingly convincing commentary. Guess I simply could not add anything worthy of consideration to such clear and reasonable thoughts. I give in to more worthy thinking.

Re: Indiana’s “Race to the Top” is Over

agman — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 12:28:32 -0000

Just a thought: for those opposed to "teacher unions" wonder what their opinion is of such groups as: regular labor unions, lawyer associations, AMA, Accountant organizations, Indiana Sheriff's Association (and similar police groups), Political parties, Farm Bureau, Corn Producers Association, Chamber of Commerce, Indiana School Boards Association, AARP,etc. etc. etc. These all exist as organizations that support education of their membership, support actions/causes/activities (including lobbying) that support their positions which are often self interest oriented. I will admit that was an active member in ISTA and NEA and other education oriented organization and while supporting much of why they existed I like a member of many other organizations did/do not support each and every activity. It is totally an over board statement to say ISTA exists or even has as a goal the protection of incompetent personnel but they will stand up and fight for a person whose rights have been violated and where inadequate evaluations have laid no basis for disciplinary action And show the organization that does not promote ideas such as long term involvement. As have stated before talk to any old time teacher who was under the township trustee system of political appointment of teachers, or a system that had a policy of firing teachers after a few years of experience so they could hire "cheaper" ones or where any teacher who dared "question" the administration (policy or mandate) was dismissed "without any reason needed to be given." Yes, job protection (or protection of interest (any organization) is part of the package.)
And as to Mr. Bennett--check with teachers and administrators in his schools or schools close. Respect is earned not bestowed.

Re: Indiana’s “Race to the Top” is Over

agman — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 08:31:04 -0000

Just a few comments ---which understand will be turned like a pig on a spit ---teachers and their organizations have never set the policy of a local corporation or the state regardless of their input; teachers have never voted on the local or state budget; teachers have never set the laws and rules of the state or federal, etc. Yes, teachers have had input and even financially backed lobby and candidate situations but the Chamber of Commerce, Farm Bureau, and a few hundred other organizations were right there also. Public education in this country is far different than from most other countries and it is not in achievement and cost as some would yell--where else is it required that every person is entitled to free education and schools are mandated to do whatever is required even it the student is totally handicapped and unable to do even the most basic academic activities (that is, where one teacher is assigned to one student situation).
Several posters are so anti "public education" it would be great to put them in total charge of a school and sit back and watch their performance. Remembering they have to accept every student (and their parents/guardians) and work with their students at the level they are and take them to the high achievement levels they proport to say can be achieved (every student).

Re: Indiana’s “Race to the Top” is Over

agman — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 07:46:54 -0000

Saying anything in defense of teacher's organization here would be like shouting into a gale force wind. IF you had been there done that situation through the last 50 years you might have a better understanding that all has not been to the bad side of "government education". I doubt that there is any organization ---business, religion, etc. that could not be critized for "unproductive" actions and positions. Again, nice thing is it is an acceptable thing in this country to bash about everything with or without merit.

Re: The Taxman Cometh

agman — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 20:36:38 -0000

No I do not endorse the idea of confiscation and I do not bitch about paying taxes--might express dissatisfaction with allocation of resources by any unit of government. Just consider that coming from a poverty youth situation to being able to achieve advanced college degrees and spend over 40+ years doing things I enjoyed even if called work--and have the right to express myself in every election since eligible to vote as an expression of my belief in the system of government and again even if I disagree with decision that are made.
Many government decisions are not in agreement with my preferances after consideration (and hopefully being somewhat informed) but again not sure I would want to live in a country where some philosophies that are totally different than mine and no prospect of being able to see things change occur. Lived long enough to have experienced many swings in government actions and also seen the great, the average, and the miserable performances by businesses (private non government section) and organizations that achieve and those that are managed poorly and cease to exist----things come around and around and around in all arenas.

Re: The Taxman Cometh

agman — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:33:19 -0000

Just wondering for those who consider federal taxes "confiscating" money then making states toe the line to get any of it---is this similar to the State of Indiana (by its constitution a "home rule" state--that is local government has authority except for that which is provided for as state authority) taking money then dictating how it will be spent locally and even telling local government how it shall tax or not tax. Just Wondering.

Re: The Taxman Cometh

agman — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:19:57 -0000

TA: understand well your points on consumption tax, but it brings up exactly my point of who draws the line on what and who. Same with the "flat tax" is that there are "reasons" why this or that should be exempt or modified or not applicable. The current system of taxation is beyond comprehension (volume and provisions) because of this exemption or that special treatment or who should and who should not get this or that (disclosurer: wife is a tax preparer for over 30 years and I have "played" in area from time to time).
The current tirades about the health care bill --its size (pages), its provisions, its "whatever" because in the last about 100 years many said it should be done (health care overhaul) but too many special interest inputs to protect this or provide for this to point of creating a monster. (will admit, basically believe the current program is better than doing nothing or studying for another 100 years--something relatively concrete is now there and the "fine tuning" can occur.)

Re: The Taxman Cometh

agman — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:40:47 -0000

Okay, for the comsumption tax advocates: will this be without exemption for any transaction and will every transaction be involved or only retail???? What about the quick claims that: a) poor people should not have to pay a tax on food or medicine or____???; b) but the tax will be regressive in that poor people will be paying a larger percentage of their income since "rich" people can save and not pay (or join "associations" that trade/barter rather than do cash transactions), etc. etc. etc.
Agree with points on elimination of duplication, consolidation of service providers, elimination of political input for decisions of closurers or where things are purchased from or produced (and this just might get into lowest cost transactions which brings up do we restrict non USA production or is it to be world market based)----remember every protection has a price.
Now reality check time: starting a clean slate situation and with no exemption and no exceptions is politically dead on delivery--too many dollars and self interest will not be ignored and who would these decison makers be that can ignore pressure of self interest groups including businesses, municipalilities, rural groups, the arts, the recreation groups, the (name the groups).
And--flat tax advocates face the same situation as "long as my taxes do not go up" syndrome.
Just read Forbes tirade on low rate of taxes on investment income not having been continued---the best tax still remains the one I do not pay attitude.

Re: Who Wants to Write the Pacers a Reality Check?

agman — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:37:30 -0000

A few points from all the posting: Pacers may or may not be viable investment for the Simons; Pacers may be important to Indy; Current deal is not feasible--evidently for either party; Something's got to be done--including the image and performance of the Pacer player/team must be improved greatly.
Now, if Indy is negotiating from a position that "we can not lose the Pacers" then that is far less than an equals position.
Partial ownership in team might be feasible but question advisability from a taxpayer situation--with prices to attend at the level only a fraction of the population can attend and for folks out in the hinderlands really have problems handling any attendance (disclosurer: never have attended a pacer or colts game and not likely to ever do so). Just rambling.

Re: Murder He Wrote

agman — Tue, 13 Apr 2010 08:43:10 -0000

Just wondering if yesterday's post and today's is in anyway incompatible? Priorities--all lists will not agree since all involve splitting the pie differently (and likely a shrinking pie at that.) Different definitions of "wants" and "needs" exists in real world. If only life was as simple as some would seek to convince others.

Re: They Still Don’t Get It

agman — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 21:46:40 -0000

Perhaps you are right but in my county all major projects funded by tax funds or government grants (same difference) have required a statement of standard wages.

Re: They Still Don’t Get It

agman — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:50:12 -0000

Melyssa: check state law about wage paying requirements on government construction---this is not simply a D or R issue. Again, too much over simplification.
Abdul: your post MAY have some validity but would agree with other posters it is just a mite over simplified. A reality point with libraries (said from experience in another county both with public and school libraries) come to believe they must teach library majors to get all you can and take from other units when possible, always ask for more than the max levy and hope you convince other oversight groups that it is necessary. Any library board member who did not go along with the requests was slated to be removed as soon as possible if at all possible.

Re: A Tale of Two Tasings

agman — Mon, 05 Apr 2010 14:22:56 -0000

This is a tough one: a) do nothing and be condemned and possibly more danger to others; b) use the "force" tactics taught on the force charts and be accused of abusing "a child" as these can result in broken bones and torn muscles; c) move to the non lethal force of the taser. I sit on a town council when the issue of tasers was brought up and at first I was the only dissenting member (other two were police officers) but research and discussions from across the country convinced me that it was a safer alternative than possible outcome for subject and officers. While I did not volunteer to be demonstrated on (all our local officers must agree before being issued right to carry) I have been told it is far less of a shock than from a sparkplug or electric fence--more like from a christmas tree light short. For most it immediately renders the person incapable of resistance then restraining can be accomplished. Disclosurer: do have a son who is a police officer in a major western city where tasers are also the choice right before deadly force (for offender and officer.)
I am sure there will be further outcries against its usage and the best course of action will be dictated without regard to reality.

Re: Educated Fools

agman — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 10:31:41 -0000

Here I go adding nothing---
--teacher's "union" protecting bad teachers---had experience there--no intent was ever made to protect bad teachers from being fired IF the proper documentation was done by an administrator. Simply sought to ensure that correct procedures were followed.
--Abdul slamming teachers for "only" working 180 days a year and complaining. When did teachers establish the school year in Indiana? And, remember those 180 (likely more like 185 days) do not include even one paid holiday and teachers with those contracts have no paid vacations, etc. So when comparing to "real world of work" where take 365 days minus 104 weekend days minus "paid holidays" minus "paid vacation days", etc. the difference between is not as big as some would make it to be. Run a survey sometime as to how many teachers have a second job perhaps year round and many doing the summer (remember teachers do not qualify for unemployment for the time "off".)
There are bad teachers, bad administrators, but so too: bad radio personalities (and they stay way too long--not a slam at Abdul as have never heard his show), bad business manager (witness the reality of economic disaster we are seeing with many businesses where bad decisions brought the whole system to point of "too big to fail".) There are problems in "public" education but not as unique as some would have us all to believe.

Re: School Daze

agman — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 10:35:47 -0000

Thundermutt you raise an interesting but I will guarantee you a difficult answer to deliver on. First, why is the main model still school corporations county based (or even township based) as hold over from times gone by (yes, know there are several cross boundary corporations but not as many as could be). School consolidation, first study the history of resistence to this by residents of any corporation area as some have even been violate. Then consider the number of people in position to start the process: school boards, administration, and school attorneys----consider the total number this involves in Marion County--most of which would be voting/working to do away with their position of authority and income. Another example of something very very unlikely to happen unless "forced" to do something of which I would worry about but the state or federal government is only thing that will make it happen.
On topic of removing those who should not be teachers--again, as a former teacher and active in local teacher's organization--believe you might find more support for idea than resistence among teachers. Problem is no less difficult than for any other profession (AMA, legal, etc.) to rid themselves of those who should be gone. Proof in variety of forms must stand a legal test and from experience will say that many administrators just very uncomfortable going there since know that courts may not support decision.

Re: School Daze

agman — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:35:31 -0000

Would agree with much of what you say (from a retired teacher) as some school systems often with blessings from the community have built amazing facilities. The same can be said for libraries in many areas (not get into the Carmel arts experiment). Also, school systems like many businesses (and other governmental agencies) got caught up in the "we pay more for our administrators than you do" to point of paying well beyond the needs and some cases the ability level of the people. And, now to go into area very often holy grounds--athletic facilities that rival pro level (our gym/swimming area/foot ball stadium is bigger and better than yours) --and we have more assistant coaches than you do (saw recently where one high school varsity basketball coach was listed as having 4 assistants). Now would not argue with attempt to have top level techology labs or chemistry/physics labs, but has not been the case in too many places.
Another issue not understood by many is that cooperative agreements between schools and other agencies is not as easy as it would appear since all must dance to the tune of the state laws and regulatory agencies.
Teacher pay and benefits: point to remember school are competing with businesses in attracting and retaining and all the noise about teachers can be gotten for less---over my years of teaching was offerred several opportunities to enter business and know of several teachers who did leave for positions that in 5 years or less were paying 3x or more plus a benefits package schools will never offer. Now, okay, let the teachers leave--remember it is likely to be the top persons who will be recruited away from the classroom.

Re: Polling for Reform

agman — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:26:17 -0000

Thanks, Abdul, for offerring a forum for those who find anything associated with the government as being objectible. At least here they can vent their emotions with no harm.
The survey reflects basically the same feedback as several others---people want something better in health care just simply not sure of how to achieve. While, I am basically a free market person, I fear that the complexities of the whole thing are simply never to happen without some "forced" adjustments (same as view the actions on civil rights, social security, medicare, voting rights, etc. etc.)

Re: More of Their Own Words

agman — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 13:07:34 -0000

The bill passed and the end of the world did not occur. Wonder if the same statements and predictions preceded several other major pieces of legislation: Women's right to vote, Social Security, Civil Rights, Medicare, and others. Whether this is good legislation or not, whether it is good for the economy, whether it is within the constitution's allowance, Whether this is a state's right issue--it is no doubt a great partisan (R vs D, C vs L and even informed vs uninformed (and the latter on both sides)) issue that has brought out the big guns of business and even the religious fringe saying the end is coming.
From a side note: with as much $ as has been pumped in by vested interests ($ interest) have to wonder about the recent court ruling on having no limits on spending. Will we be fed more facts or hype in the future?

Re: Health Care History Lesson

agman — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:53:57 -0000

Interesting that I am a "left" in that might disagree in that would put myself more in the middle. I too wish the government played less of a role in everyday life, but reality is that as the number of people increased, the complexity of the world changed, as rights were given to those that were not white, male, european, etc. and as the world experience the barons of society ---things simply got more complex than the framers of the constitution ever preceived.

Re: Health Care History Lesson

agman — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:44:03 -0000

Interesting responses but would say that the interpretations taken from the Constitution to today's world are a bit of a push. Where does it speak of a national highway system, telephone (or even telegraph), television, airplanes and airports, and on and on--it is a good document (as stated a total compromise even for the time) but is lacking in addressing many issues. Now there is different readings on what it allows for and does not and we experience that every day. Simply do not believe it was a static document and if every change in every way in every place would require a document of unbelievable size. Simply do not buy the argument that if the constitution does not address it then it can not be, too much not addressed that is relevant as time moves forth. States rights, read history well and see what the feelings were at that time among the delegates and less than 100 years later there was a little war over that issue.

Re: Health Care History Lesson

agman — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:51:43 -0000

GP38-2----and others: While holding high regard for the work of the "founding fathers" it should be taken with a high degree of understanding of the history of the world and the birth of this nation as to provisions put into the original documents. Too often fingers are pointed saying the founding documents this or that---again, giving them credit but this was a group of white mainly English and mainly rather wealthy men who made decisions in line with their concerns about royal Europe and in line with religious beliefs. Now just because a topic was not included should not forever ban its consideration. They were not gifted with visions of the future that would hold massive war weapons, technology beyond their ability to envision, social changes in so many areas, a world wide economic climate complete different from anything they had experienced, etc. Again, give them their due but at some point the argument becomes very shallow. The world did not stop evolving in 1776 and fortunately in this country different from many the evolution of philosphy has been an evolution not a revolution.

Re: Health Care History Lesson

agman — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:31:53 -0000

Interesting history lesson. For those who advocate "going slower" it is already one of the longest running "debates" in our history. Interesting where there is currently absolutely no bipartisanship on this it has not been only a one party issue over time. Just wonder if should take more time (like another 100 years) to consider. Also, wonder how much of the current "anti" ads and material is being paid for my vested interest such as the health care industry. And as point of disclosurer I do own stock in several health care companies.