Disqus - Latest Comments for PardesiGori

Re: Becoming an Intercultural Communicator

PardesiGori — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:40:21 -0000

I remember years ago when I would hear young Indian men and women, in their late teens and early twenties, talk about "proposals". They would tell me, "I proposed one girl in school" or "he proposed to me today", etc. And I thought, hmmm, "kind of young for them to be proposing....."

Turns out they were "proposing friendship", which is a concept I had never heard before in my life.

Another one; "taking classes" and "taking appointments" (Aiswarya Rai even said that on OPRAH! and there was a silent/awkward moment from the audience.)

I always thought they were telling me that they were taking classes and MAKING appointments.

Actually what they meant was that they were GIVING classes, and yes, making appointments.

The teachers and professors say, "I'm taking a class today".

How about 6s and 9s? Turns out that's an old British saying?!?! (wonder what it means in old UK)

How about the "pepsi" they sell on the trains? (Not a soft drink or a drink at all)

Anyway, so many things.

I've got to run, I've taken an appointment with my parents today for lunch (thanks Ash for the idea!)

Re: Initial Family Resistance to your Intercultural Relationship

PardesiGori — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:05:25 -0000

I didn't mention IQ anywhere. Those tests are outdated, passe and lack range.

Geez.

The thing is, you actually DO get what I'm talking about because you rank "common goals".

So the goals can be up or down if they are not the same or equal.

We are talking about the same thing here but you don't even realize it. And as far as education, I was careful not to use that word. Education (if we are talking about the "education system" here) has little to do with intellect and awareness in my opinion.

And I believe in the principle behind arranged marriage. The arranged marriage system was indeed designed to bring "equal" together. Duh. However, where I take issue with the arranged marriage system in India is that they stop at caste, class, culture, religion, education, money and other external factors, which, if you read my comment, I don't put that external material stuff on my totem pole or in my hierarchy. My totem pole is based on subtle elements of compatiblitiy like ............... intellect, awareness, common goals (which will be common based on intellect and awareness), and other things like sexual chemistry which is important in a marriage.

If the arranged marriage system focused more on these subtle factors and less on the material factors, it would be a great blessing.

As far as "first wave feminism" in India, I know that India has always had women who went against the tide of culture/society and fought for various freedoms, however, big or small, in pockets here and there throughout the land. However, due to the onslaught of communications technology in the last 20 years, and especially the birth of the internet, women are networking and mobilizing in India now like never before. Hence I said, "first wave".

The link you refered to me which explained a fight for lower caste women to be able to wear shirts and not have to bare their naked breasts to the upper castes was interesting. I never knew there were once women who were forced by brahmins to bear their naked breasts in public.

However, do you think it's a possiblity that that particular "documented history" could have been fabricated by the Brits in order to make Indians appear in need of civilizing?

I'm not saying it didn't happen. It is likely. However, conquering empires fabricating falsehoods about "natives" have also happened and is a likely possibility too.

Re: Initial Family Resistance to your Intercultural Relationship

PardesiGori — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:15:22 -0000

Follow Goris advice Sooraj. She's relishing her victory at my conceding these relationships are different than the ones I'm exposed to and I'm relishing my victory that she agrees with me on India's cultural sexism.

Let us bask for a while in the bliss.

As far as "marrying up or down", you don't think it happens?

Un-pc as it sounds, your parents and and my parents generations know exactly what I'm talking about.

But I don't consider "caste", "class" , or even culture in my totem pole. I consider intellect and "awareness" which transcends caste, class or culture.

So maybe that makes it more acceptable for you?

Re: Initial Family Resistance to your Intercultural Relationship

PardesiGori — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:57:48 -0000

Ram, are you by any chance part of the Sri Rama Sena that is getting alot of publicity lately?

(joke, joke)

Anyway Gori, Sooraj, Aditya and others. To be fair, after thinking about it, I will say this;

Most of the desi/non-desi marriages that I have had exposure to were unlike the marriages I am reading about on this blog and others in the following ways'

1. The marriages here and on alot of blogs are unions between working professionals with University degrees for the most part. The unions that I have had personal exposure to were between women who had dedicated most of their lives to a certain Indic religion and had married Indian men from village/small town backgrounds who were either also directly involved in that religion or indirectly connected. Neither were working professionals with high degrees. In most (maybe all) cases the women had "married down" in terms of experience, exposure, awareness and intellect. This does not appear to be the case in the desi/non-desi marriages I am reading about on the net. It appears that couples like Gori and Aditya as well as others in the blogosphere are "equals" and neither party "married down".

2. It appears that in the blogosphere the desi husbands and boyfriends are already well settled in the West and are not village/small town Rajus and Rinkus looking for a green card.

So I would say these two factors make a big difference in the outcome and I wish these couples are the luck and love in the world.

Salam

Re: Initial Family Resistance to your Intercultural Relationship

PardesiGori — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:20:30 -0000

Well, of course you've READ about India. When you don't live there books and other media would be your only source of information, now wouldn't they? Aside from your hubby that is.

I'm just surprised that you would rely on academia, which often has biases and some Hindu groups are calling them out on it.

Anyway, your reading and my experiences match up.

I had several years of personal experience in India before I started reading (non-religious) books about India, like Kakar's and others. For the most part, what was described and analyzed in those books matched up pretty well with my experiences and put everything into a larger a context of understanding for me.

So at the end of the day, you and I seem to be in agreement on Indian gender issues.

Re: Initial Family Resistance to your Intercultural Relationship

PardesiGori — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 12:42:33 -0000

Stereotypes are based on generaliziations.

But like you and others have pointed out to me, you don't know MOST Indians Gori, so how can you make a sweeping generalization such as, "you can be Hindu without being sexist, but MOST Indians are not".

Touche!

Re: Initial Family Resistance to your Intercultural Relationship

PardesiGori — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:54:05 -0000

I'm amused by this comment posted by "Gori Girl" on Bahu Bootcamp here;

http://bahubootcamp.blogspo...

'One thing you should realize, though, is that Hinduism, as practiced by most Hindus, is a sexist religion, similar in nature to Catholicism or the Latter-Day Saints. Now, I think you can be a Hindu without being sexist, but most Indians are not, as modern India also currently does not have what we would recognize as fair gender practices."

Seems like you and I both do some generalizing there, Gori. What with the term "most Indians" that you are using and all.

By the way, what you wrote was correct in my experience and I agree with it whole heartedly, but imagine if I had written the same thing here? You and your swami would be protesting that it is not true and that I am stereotyping, generalizing and was just plain wrong, if not arrogant.

Oh the tangled web we weave...................

I'm expecting you to delete this as well because I know that people do not like to be shown to be hypocrites. It embarrasses us.

I am curious though, in light of all of the recent exchanges we've had above on your site, how do you feel about the comment you wrote on bahu bootcamp back in August?

PS: you asked me to email you regarding tech stuff but you neither provided an email address in the email nor could I find an email address for you here. therefore i just hit reply and my tech/registration messages came here.