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Re: Are You Dating a Narcissist?

Marita — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:47:00 -0000

Brigitte --
thank you for your clear and pinpoint description of the very real dynamics that affect partners and others near the N, and how trauma/PTSD are always a part of sustained contact and attachment to someone with narcissistic disorder. Articles by Sam Vankin at HealthyPlace.com also describe perfectly the nuances and indescribable (to others) twistst and turns of heart and mind that suck us in to confusion, guilt, sadness, with the N in our lives. I have read these articles over and over in order to keep in what I know is reality, and to reinforce my own values and identity. Check it out.

School and hockey have begun in my part of the world so it's been hectic, but I'm glad to have found this thread again. I believe my ex-N called from his private home # 2 mon/wed/fri two weeks ago, and I know he called from his work # this past wed. No messages. I am okay not calling back, but even this kicks up feelings I must deal with. I am finding fun & confidence focusing on my own, real life, and the friendships that stay with me when I am not with him. I feel lonely often, especially at night, & when I think i may never have a loving, physical relationship with a man who appreciates me.

Acutely aware of how horrible i feel WITH N, I now say to myself, "It's okay to be alone, you can handle it, you're never bored, just need to trust that life will continue to bring good people and opportunities.... You are not a reject because you are single in your 50s." So far this is quite natural, because if I didn't believe it, i'd be calling N back for another round of make-believe relationship that leaves me drained and depressed.

Re: Are You Dating a Narcissist?

Marita — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:59:51 -0000

I am having trouble locating you in MySpace, and now cannot even find the blogsite/chatroom for "Are you dating a N?" I am replying to you via email link. I am Marita on Myspace, from New York, 52 y.o. Write!

Re: Are You Dating a Narcissist?

Marita — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:39:58 -0000

Gitte -- I am enjoying you as well and will try and find you. I''m new to the social networks, finding you is my first endeavor. may not succeed until weekend. Back soon.

Re: Are You Dating a Narcissist?

Marita — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 07:56:18 -0000

Brigitte,
EVERYTHING you mention is parallel. His face has truly changed, he changes with different people, lives in same cluttered, dirty studio apartment for 30 years, is inconsistent with money (e.g., we've been out to dinner exactly 5 times in 2 years), but spends huge money on food at Costco (11 legs of lamb last year -- they were on sale) then has to give it away because he doesn't have room for it - an easy investment in N-supply from others rather than generosity. He would never tell me, but I believe he had addiction issues in the past and now is a dry drunk/clean addict, or maybe not. I suspect he is abusing his pain meds for back problem. JUST WRITING THESE THINGS is sobering -- why would anyone go to the terrific trouble I have to be with this person?
I started seeing him just after i turned 50, and admittedly, I had a crisis with that: 50, alone, sex-starved, how much longer do i have for a chance to have an active relationship where we're healthy enough to things together, etc. That's a big reason I stayed with him. Ironically, "doing things" was a small part of our time.
My state of mind is settling down. I am not desperate to be with a man, but it is something i would like.
About others' opinions, my daughter & brothers didn't like him, and though my best friend always just supports me, her husband tactfully gave his feedback with "I" statements, such as, "it's hard to have a conversation with him." My body also tells me the truth. My appetite, sleep, mood, GI system, plantar fasciitis all are calm when I've decided to leave him. They churn up again when I go back w/ him.
No, I cannot respect myself if i go back one more time. My kids have much going on this fall, and though I don't want to "live through them," it's important to participate with them, spend time with my few close friends, and cultivate more of my own interests. I truly like & value my own life. N's contacts shoot holes in my resolve, so I have blocked my email to him and am making enjoyable plans with others for those vulnerable times when I feel lonely. He is NOT the answer to my loneliness -- no man is. To some extent, that's an existential issue we all must come to terms with. Loneliness is an issue for me, as I was very much alone as a child. Being "normal" socially requires much effort, and I used to have some social phobia. As much as i am social and want to balance social/alone, alone is baseline, becomes lonely. Very. Staying that way and having the loneliness become even more profound is my worst fear. It is something I must face over and over, and continue to work through. I understand the fear is worse than the reality... I have some skills, some faith.
I appreciate this forum and your ability to present all relevant facts to me. I am strong most mornings, but then weaken through the day and week. 13 and 17 year old kids aer with their dad this weekend. I am making plans. I don't expect you to respond every time, but I likely will be here, checking in, and trying to stay on track.

Re: Are You Dating a Narcissist?

Marita — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:38:26 -0000

Briggitte, thank you for the continued support. I have spent energy trying to "make sure he is a real N," not just a "self-centered developmentally arrested defensively chauvanistic male" (great description!). He fits the DSM criteria, but I've wondered, could a true N (1) consistently do nice things with & for me, (2) be aware of his personality issues (I think he knows he's NPD & he admits taking things negatively if it's unclear), and (3) really want to have a healthy relationship, which i think he does?
I had enough time with him to know he is emotionally unhealthy, and I cannot be myself around him. My truth is not a judgment of his worth - I needn't feel guilty for leaving a situation that is harmful to me, regardless of how narcissistic he is or isn't!
Your flat out NO CONTACT suggestion is the right one. I ended it last spring, w/ 3 months of no contact. I wasn't ready, so when he made his moves, I responded. The reference to addiction is apt -- getting clean and sober doesn't usually happen on the first try. I've had a lot of therapy, and I see the reasons I stayed even when I knew I shouldn't. Getting & staying "emotionally sober" is tough. I'm fine most of the time, but those weekend nites and other specific times when I lack male companionship or help are vulnerable times for me. Planning good ways to spend these times is crucial.
After ending a 17-year marriage to a scary N, I built a stable, fulfilling life. Starting to date is a challenge. With N, I was "myself" in the beginning, but you're right -- he trained me. At first he talked about "relationships," shared articles on codependency, etc. And he referenced the future. Part of me knew it was manipulative, to "lock me in," and part of me liked thinking he wanted me in his life and talked about future events that included me. He changed suddenly, which I attributed to the fact that one of his brothers died 6 months before we met and his other brother was terminally ill & died a year after. Could his narcissism be that form of regressive N that can happen to during major life stress? The outbursts became more frequent, more intense, more out of proportion to what caused it, and a lot of times, I did nothing to cause it. It rings true for me that my difficulty resisting contact is an "indication of the disruption the experience of a N has had" on me.
I also am a social worker, but in my own relationship, I am a civilian. Hearing from you is so helpful. I have researched NPD to death, and your comments seem accurate. Thanks for being there.
[Note: I am also Maja9, and this might post that way. I got messed up trying to log on a second time and ended up having to give a new name.]

Re: Are You Dating a Narcissist?

Marita — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:24:44 -0000

I am in the midst of feeling torn between my healthy, strong, "real" self, and my old urge to get my ex(N) back and delusion that healing the relationship is possible. It's really not my ex-N I want back, but the chance to "be there for him," as he really has had some huge things happen out of his own control. I also really miss the sex, particularly since I went so many years without a physical relationship.
Though I ended the relationship in earnest a month ago, he has been nudging me with little emails to "call if there's anything at all further I want to talk about." Yesterday I gave in & wrote back, w/ key issues for me, esp. constant blame of me for his feelings & reactions. His terse, one line less than ten minutes later: "OK, thanks. That just about says it all" triggered me to want to get more from him. I'm okay now, but it hurts again.
Brigitte's words really amazed me in how precisely they describe my experience:
"....I found an N cannot even learn to mechanically carry out decent behaviour in a sustained way no matter how much it would be in his interest... he cannot cope with not having more power than you. So no matter how low a bench mark you will allow with minimul standards for him and find ways of living around his limits he will be compelled to up his negative ante. So things just keep declining, any step forward will have 3 steps back by the N. Thus eventually anyone who can even still crawl departs from this. Best to go while you can run or at least walk away. The weird thing is the N behaves as if he is training you, to fit in no matter what."
N understandably thinks it is working, as you are still there or come back even if you went. The N is in utter disbelief when eventually you've left. The most problematic type of N is generally the nastiest more irritable laziest type. Despite his denials to himself and you about his dispicable behaviour to a woman as a partner, he is aware that he won't sustain or even engage another by "acting" . He nolonger can really remember how to pull off the charming con for long enough. He has spent too long comfortably working on being cruel and inconsiderate. "
BRIGITTE, your words are an absolute gift from God right now -- a perfect reality check, and I am grateful for them. The part of me that has difficulty "waving goodbye" as my life moves farther away toward healthier places feels guilty that he's still on his dis-eased continent. I'm still angry and I'm leaving, which makes me feel I'm judging him and being insensitive (just as he accused me of being).

Re: Are You Dating a Narcissist?

Marita — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:41:38 -0000

annie7rose, brigitte is correct, from all that I have read and learned. N is profoundly self-centered, and cannot love you, only what you can do for his ego. Whatever abuse or neglect he experienced early on (along with genetics) makes it impossible for him to participate in a mutual, loving relationship. He may even be able to give lip service to the fact that he has some bad behavior, but again -- the admission of some responsibility is to con you, give you impression he has insight. He has no intentions for mental/emotional self-improvement.
My ex-N lives 2-1/2 hrs away and we saw each other only on alternate weekends and some other time when my children are with their dad. N states our relationship has problems because we don't live closer together, and he pressured me to sell my house and buy one with him in my town. I told him if our relationship were healthy enough to do that, we'd be making those plans happily. As it was, I was healthy enough to see that was not a good plan. He was wounded by my refusal to change our living situation, and he got more volatile. I finally lost attraction to my ex-N. He called me yesterday, and although I always was kind in the little feedback I had the guts to give him, this time I calmly told him, "Your life is a train wreck -- you look like hell, you act like it, your thinking is distorted -- you have nothing for me." He said, "My life's not a train wreck! ... It's a problem!" Can you guess what came next?............ N: "... if you'd just cover me instead of confront me, and give me the help I need, maybe i'd be that nice guy you're looking for... " He ALWAYS uses his stress and/or my insensitivity as an excuse for his rage.
REMEMBER, there are reasons for his personality problems and behavior, and it is very, very sad, but NO MATTER HOW KIND, UNDERSTANDING, AND PATIENT YOU ARE, HE WILL NOT CHANGE BECAUSE OF YOU. YOUR REMAINING ANYWHERE NEAR HIM BY CHOICE ONLY VALIDATES HIS DELUSION THAT YOU ARE CONNABLE, that he can continue controlling you. Many of us are attracted only to certain types of men, and your own longing may make you vulnerable to filling that void too soon, with someone similar. It takes time for the true N to break thru the initial charm and "relationship-correct" verbals. GO SLOWLY with new guy, and keep sharing with your trusted girl buddies.