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Re: Sorenson Says Obama Like Kennedy -- Political Wire

evave2 — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:05:11 -0000

I agree with jgrillo: AFTER President Kennedy was dead, when the biographies began to come out it was so REVEALED that the press knew all about President Kennedy's affairs. I remember one story having bimbos in the White House Pool (and Jack and Teddy were skinny dipping too) and Bobby running in to say that Jackie had cut her trip short and was on her way home NOW.

It WAS a different time: the press largely covered up for FDR too; when did we find out FDR died in the "presence'" of Lucy Mercer?

President Kennedy WAS NOT discreet, he was widely considered reckless. How else do you explain him fooling around with Judith Campbell Exner and then allowing himself to be blackmailed by J Edgar Hoover?

Lordie, Mr Sorensen, I can "see" the idea the Obama wants to RUN on a new way of handling government/politics. But I honestly can't see any concordances between the two.

And it boggles my mind that Mr Sorensen said all of this.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.16 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 09:12:42 -0000

What I wondered about cougar museum curator opening hitting on Dean was that THEN Magnus appeared to openly hit on Dean (that "companion" offer was so creepy; he had a zoo of will-drained creatures but he admitted to being "lonely" and what about it big guy? Creepy) so could the mark of cain make Dean shine as slutty?
Other gripes are on point for me but I hadn't thought of: mark of cain affecting Sam to have Dean kill Crowley. I could tell the idea occurred to Dean he SAID it occurred to himself but he did not think it was the time.
Killing Abaddon before resolving Metatron/Gadreel: she said she wanted to possess Dean. They have not met since Episode 2 and Dean has to be aware of that. For all of his faults (and they are numerous and MOST have already been mentioned I'll just add Dean's words from Survival of the Fittest: Crowley will always find a way to bone you. So when they deal with him they know he has already withheld information that thus enables him to benefit over them.) Crowley never threatened to burn off Dean's anti-possession tattoo and just take him. I think for once Show wants Castiel to clean up his own mess (Metatron) and have SOME angels not be dicks. I was upset when Bart killed the pacifist angel I wish Castiel had intervened THEN and killed Bart. I think killing in defense of another harmless being is MORE admirable that killing because Bart tried to kill Castiel. Non-violence IS a hard row to hoe; Castiel has never been a pacifist here he was portrayed as someone who was tired of all the angel-killing.
I think Crowley was truly off the human blood but that sure didn't take long did it?

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.17 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 16:31:47 -0000

Ginger, I think what is different about Dean/addiction to Blade vs Sam/ addition to demon blood is here Dean is worried about the effect on himself. I don't think Sam thought about it that way in Season 4. He just believed he was right/doing it for the right reasons and that was that.
I have read everybody's comments on WHAT the heck the demon/hunter deal was and I am still confused. I thought Dean saved the hunter's life it was not about saving Crowley's life, as Dean believed Crowley was in no danger from the guy with the wrong type of blade. I don't think at all it proved Dean was "Crowley's bitch" as I have seen it colorfully alluded. Just that Dean still cares about a single person which is what his credo is.
I have known functioning alcoholics: they are drunk, you may not think they are drunk-drunk. But I know when they are drunk. I find it weird that Dean is not affected that much. But the way the camera showed him taking the bottle out of his pack was heavy-handed to me. I get it, I got it, I have it.
Lastly, I didn't see it that much as a switch in prescription that Dean wouldn't really look at Sam while Sam wanted him to hunt. I think that Dean is BEYOND fed up with Sam's conflicting signals and is just not going to play the game anymore.
I think my ideal end-game for this storyline would be for DEAN to be dead/ on the verge of death and SAM has to do something bizarro (I don't know what that could be, just something that has repercussions in the future and then SAM to see it's not easy NOT to do off-the-wall stuff when you know how to do it. (I saw Season 2 as being sort of a primer for Dean to sell his soul: Daddy Dearest does, he finds out from Evan and the other guy HOW to sell his soul in Crossroads Blues, the demon laughs and says he COULD have gotten his daddy out, then Sam dies and Dean sells his soul in a paroxysm of grief /he failed everybody and shouldn't be alive anyway/ and we go on from there. It's the example of his dad and the knowledge of the method that bring him to sell his soul.) I really want SAM to be in the same position as Dean was at the beginning of Season 9 and see what HE does.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.17 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:06:34 -0000

Ross part of Dean blowing Sam off was because he was beyond fed-up with Sam's previous behavior. Yes no hot cold, Dean's fed-up. Other part I think Dean "felt" the Blade and the way he looked at Sam right after he killed Magnus telegraphed to me that he was thinking about killing Crowley AND Sam.
Yeah, years have gone by and Soulless Sam STILL shines for assholery. I got a question (always had a question about that): WHY did Sam WANT Dean to hunt with him? He really had NO affection for Dean. Why was Sam so hell-bent himself on hunting alphas? It's like he was supposed to have everything but Hunter burned out of him but why was Hunter still there and why wasn't he still hunting with Grandpa Shady? That always bugged me.
I generally don't have problem with DEAN's motivations, but I do with SAM.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.17 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:25:27 -0000

I so agree with you re Gripe #1. When Dean was going out on a hunt by himself a couple of weeks ago he was just heading out for the dugout. Bye Sammy. Dean is now expressing his displeasure with Sam's attitude as well.
Yeah, while it's a meme of the show I am sick of the brown tea bottle coming out (I assume that's what the actor is really drinking).

YOUR gripe #1: Dean got the Abaddon-killing bug from Crowley. He felt guilty about her getting free in the first place (question: I know demons can be in anybody;'s body but do you think they generally pick the same sex? Abaddon was going for Henry but took Josie; she was already in mother superior. So was Abaddon male or female in human life? Meg generally picked girls. Not they CAN'T be other sex but just feel better in one or the other) when she put her body back together.
YOUR gripe #2: Curing Crowley could be done. The priest in the original tape survived. It could be done. But maybe curing him cuts him off from hell and they were using him for intel.
I got nothing other than that.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.17 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:34:01 -0000

I like the way you analyzed the issues from the Gripe Review. I see most things like you analyzed. Re drinking gripe: if Dean drank that much he'd be prone so I can't see him really being drunk all the time. He NOTICED demon-hunter. If he was DRUNK he wouldn't have noticed anything going on. I keep reading "functioning alcoholic" but that doesn't mean he'd NOTICE things.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.17 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:23:51 -0000

I guess I want to see Sam save Dean and tell him he loves him. SCHMOOPY.
Or I want the season to end with Dean having killed Abaddon and a bunch of demons (like Cain did) and being possessed by the Blade; then Sam is facing him down to kill him but he can't and Dean is telling him he HAS to and yelling some of Sam's own lines about Dean back at Sam. And Sam saying "but I didn't mean THAT." I really want SAM to be in the hard place morally for once and know it.
Remember John telling Sam to shoot him in Devil's Trap? And Dean said no?
And Sam did what Dean said, even though Daddy yelled? Sam did not feel any moral problems with that it seemed to me. But if you think about it, if he did then Dean wouldn't have been in the truck wreck and then wouldn't have made the deal. It was morally right but sort of ambiguous WHO was right in that cabin, Dad or Dean. And nobody ever discussed that. (Of course Dean's condition was mostly related to the damage Azazel did not the truck, so I may be full of hooey here.)
I do agree with you on the drinking; Dean never appears to be "searching" for a drink IMO. You never see him drinking in the car and I gather they spend 14hr a day in the car when they are traveling. When they are at the job they just appear to be having a beer in the evening, NOT when they out investigating. I guess everybody has a different idea of a functional alcoholic (btw SAM drinks a lot too; it's just not telegraphed as much.)
Oh I love this show.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.17 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Mon, 31 Mar 2014 15:31:13 -0000

Tessa. I don't see Dean as a hypocrite. He thought he had a straight-ahead type of job: get the Blade kill Abaddon. And then Crowley afterwards (I am SURE he means to kill Crowley). It got more complicated.
In First Son he KNEW that Crowley "manipulated" him but decided the Blade was the most useful tool he could ever obtain.
NOW he feels how he is changing inside (I read somewhere that Jensen said it was like the attitudinal changes steroids cause?) and is trying to control it ALL to GET THE JOB DONE.
I think him "saving" hunter/demon guy meant to him that he still wanted to save people and that to him is the world.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.17 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Tue, 01 Apr 2014 10:00:42 -0000

I went to supernaturalwiki.com as you suggested.
I KNOW you are right by "human" standards. It just seems like Dean is NEVER impaired. I KNOW you are right.
But in the last episode Dean "saw" the demon/hunter. When I have had two drinks I don't really notice things that are sort of off. I guess I am using my once-a-week type of drinker for what I notice around me.
Somebody else quoted somewhere in this thread said Gamble (?) said these guys were Heroes and they don't have regular human limitations (consider the number of times they have been thrown into walls: they should have back injuries or brain damage by now - talk about concussion syndrome).
In fanfic both Sam and Dean have multiple scars and old breaks. Because believe it or not fanfic is more realistic than SHOW.
So Martin I will NOT disagree with youin reality. In reality Dean would be a drooling stumbling person due to head injuries/limb injuries/alcohol and let's not talk about the number of times he's been shot. Osteoarthritis, baby.
It's just that I think that Dean's drinking alcohol is no different than physical injury.
But in reality YOU are right.

Re: Supernatural 9.18 "Meta Fiction" Review: It Doesn't Get Much More Meta Than This | Spoilers

evave2 — Sat, 19 Apr 2014 12:27:55 -0000

It is so funny to me that everybody gets such different ideas from an episode like this:
what I got was that the writer is somehow the least aware in what he is actually writing and how it is being perceived by the reader.
Metatron THINKS he is writing a story in which he is the hero. There could be NO story in which Metatron is the hero because he is not. Everything he writes is tainted by the fact that he is seeing the whole set-up "wrong." The characters "get away" from him again and again and will continue to do so.
Lisa's review points out that Metatron may be all-powerful but he is not all-knowing. THAT is a characteristic of God that Metatron lacks and because of that his belief that he is GOD is just wrong.
He has power so he is surprised when the characters don't behave like he is writing them.
(Remember Chuck saying in Swan Song, Dean you're not supposed to be here.) Free will MEANS you can't really tell what somebody will do. You can give people every bit of info and they will still behave/understand things differently. Sort of like how everybody "read" this episode differently.
I for one do NOT think Dean beat Gadreel so badly. I think that was all a set-up for Dean and Gadreel setting up Metatron. I believe Gadreel wants redemption. I think the guy we met in Episode 1 was who Gadreel "wanted" to be; I think that guy was happy being in Sam in the bunker and was unhappy Dean was trying to kick him out. Sam was healed already!
HOW did Dean know there was a back door to Heaven in the final scene? We did not see Castiel tell him.
BTW, were all Metatron's study scenes filmed on earth or in Heaven? I have wondered if Metatron got kicked out TOO and Heaven is closed off and he is trying to build an army himself to return to Heaven. BUT they were talking about the door being secure.
I like to be surprised and it DID surprise me how RSJ was playing Gabriel off because Metatron didn't have the character down.
Fun episode.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sat, 19 Apr 2014 12:43:56 -0000

Tessa, I liked the episode 'WAY more than you did, like a lot.
RSJ was GREAT playing somebody playing the character he played because he IS
In retrospect I agree, I want my three boys together and I was pissed off Castiel did not mention to Sam what the hooey the Mark WAS or was DOING TO DEAN.
Hey, JA's shoulders made ME happy.
I think Sam is finding out that being angry all the time is no way to live and the fact that Dean has removed himself personally from the equation is not playing to Sam's preconceived idea of Dean begging for his forgiveness. Dean is not engaging at all with Sam as his brother. Matter of fact, if Benny were to come back he would be engaging with him more personally I think.
Metatron is wrong in the original premise of his script: he is not nor ever can be the Hero. He is not Hero material. YEARS ago I was watching Young and the Restless (back when it started, back when the sisters whose last name I can't remember were the Stars) and one sister was a writer who wrote a book about her family. She was always in conflict with her elder sister who was kind gentle and everybody loved her but she was FRAGILE. Anyway, sister wrote a book and she was supposed to be the heroine, and everybody could see she was shunted aside for older sister. She took it to her publisher who said the emphasis was all wrong, the heroine was the older sister that everybody would care what happened to her, the younger sister had let her life be ruled by jealousy and that was never attractive. Younger sister was stunned (editor thought it was a work of enhanced fiction based on family, NOT family history). I don't remember how it turned out.'
Anyway, even in the story Metatron was revealing to us, he is NOT the Hero. He is having angels trapped and murdered. He is personally repulsive in how he views others-not-himself.
Who reading this story would find him a hero? Even if Castiel AND the brothers lost and this was the only history, who would see Metatron as hero?
I think the whole premise points to the fact that any author may be blinded to WHAT he is writing and/or HOW he is writing it, to HOW it is perceived.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sat, 19 Apr 2014 19:11:03 -0000

That is my point: Metatron THINKS he is writing a wonderful story which he comes out as GOD but he's not because writers are not always actually aware of what they are really saying.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sat, 19 Apr 2014 19:23:46 -0000

Peter, thank you for saying this I agree 100%.
What Dean WANTS is to protect other people. He has said from like the first/ second episodes of the show was that he was a freak, his life was screwed the moment YED attacked his family. He KNOWS what's out there. He can NEVER have a "normal" life because he can never not know what he knows. The only thing that gives worth to his life is saving others. He expects to die bloody and with a gun in his hand.
I guess if he wanted anything else for himself he would want to be an amnesiac and forget EVERYTHING his life has taught him and then have a family. But he wouldn't even wish for that because he would know that something supernatural could come and take it all away at any moment. He really is stuck in a loop, he has no self-worth in himself, his only worth is saving others, he cannot even want to not know what he knows.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sun, 20 Apr 2014 08:55:38 -0000

Aline, the truth of that "year-off" was that Sam ALSO left KEVIN who was their charge. He was a kid in 'WAY over his head.
In the first conversation they had when Dean got back was "what about Kevin what about Meg (she also rode with them into RRE in Survival of the Fittest)" and here Sam had no answer. I can accept that Sam had a nervous breakdown after a year in which Bobby died and then Dean/Cas/Kevin/Meg disappeared before I can "buy" the this agreement nobody saw them make.
He did NOT see Dean die; he saw him disappear.
But he KNEW Kevin was alive.
And I thought Sam's response to finding out Kevin had escaped from Crowley was just weak. Oh yeah.
In that episode I actually felt rather than Sam's maturity we got to realize that Sam was not self-motivated. Dean said let's find Kevin. And they did.
But Kevin was in the way of Sam running away from Hunting.
But when Dean said, In or out. Halfway gets you killed. THEN Sam decided to hunt.
I just think that whole arc was written poorly (sort of like Metatron's novel!) because I can understand Sam wanting out. I can. But walking away from Kevin was the WORSE than Ruby and her demon blood for me.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sun, 20 Apr 2014 09:01:54 -0000

When did Dean turn his back on Sam? I remember the break-up after s5e2 but Sam was the one who said I have to leave and Dean said ok; Sam was surprised.
Sam left Dean s4e22 after he beat the ever-living crap out of him and then Bobby convinced Dean there was too much at stake for him not to try to get Sam back onto the right path.
S6e1 when he said he was staying the Lisa and Ben because now he had a commitment to them as well as to Sam, Sam HAD hunting partners, and Lisa and Ben had to be protected?
It's early, I may have sleep-blinkers on but really, when did Dean leave Sam?

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sun, 20 Apr 2014 09:07:02 -0000

I have been following this discussion and both of you are arguing your points very well.
But Dean PRESUMED DEAD s3e16? PRESUMED? They knew it was the end of Dean's deal. Sam SAW Dean ripped to shreds by a hellhound (or two, I was never sure how many were at the door). Dean WAS dead.
And Sam tried to make a deal himself. Now he would never have succeeded in bringing his brother back so he was going to kill Lillith in revenge for Dean's death.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sun, 20 Apr 2014 09:20:09 -0000

Maybe the rules changed when Metatron closed off heaven?
Also didn't they have Sam/Gadreel locked into a chair in Road Trip? It seemed he was chained to a chair to me. Did they have an "angel-restraint" sigil like in this one?
I agree I don't know where it came from.
I agree with your idea on what Thompson was saying (writers are god) BUT I got that writers sometimes aren't aware of what message their writing actually conveys. As in Metatron can NEVER be a hero because he's an asshole.
He sees himself as a poor misunderstood guy who's been wronged by all the other mean angels. He has learned nothing from life and wants to spread the suffering.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sun, 20 Apr 2014 09:37:12 -0000

They also poured a truckload of cement into the storm drain to trap the serial killer.
I thought the solution for Doc Benton was good. His parts would wear out and he would be powerless pretty quickly (didn't Dean stab him in the heart and he needed a new heart like immediately?).
Cutting up Abaddon into multiple parts and burying them in various places was a good plan and might've worked; she was trapped in that body by the magic bullet. But maybe she could possess another body?
So you're "right" that these solutions were for "human" time not "immortal" time. But we don't know HOW these being experience time. Trapped in that fridge still seemed tough to me.
I think Metatron's pretense of geniality doesn't work for me because he is so smarmy.
He reminds me of Uriah Heep; so self-effacing but with "plans" to get his revenge.
I think he just does not "see" that he is NOT a hero. NEVER can be a hero. The hero has to has some charisma in some way.
The rest of your discussion is so true; but for me you never get real finality in life. You never know how things turn out, not really. And asking things to make sense every step of the way is reasonable but not possible. Something always doesn't fit.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sun, 20 Apr 2014 09:43:37 -0000

I see what you mean: Dean was dead but Sam believed he had the means to bring him back (his body was never burned). So he was not DEAD. Just sort of in hell for the time being. I don't agree BUT this is an arguable point.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sun, 20 Apr 2014 09:51:37 -0000

Throwing the amulet away was a rejection of a God who did not care, not a rejection of Sam's love (he gave Dean the amulet because he realized Dean was the one who cared for him).
He believed an angel in season 4: well, you got me. Castiel told Dean that Sam was doing something awful, Dean found him drinking demon blood (and the LOOK on Sam's face while he was slurping has STAYED with me) and put him in a panic room. BUT it turned out Cas was lying about other stuff. So Dean believed in Cas in what he could see Sam doing, and then managed to turn Cas to his own side in Lucifer Rising for the rest of the series (it seems).
Benny WAS an uncomplicated "brother" he did not have to feel conflicted about but he never picked him over Sam; he protected Benny FROM Sam because Sam was wrong about Benny.
BUT while I disagree with you in how these things shook out, I agree Sam might've felt differently. He might've felt rejected when Dean threw away the amulet. I just thought the entire conversation was about "dead-beat Dad/GOD" and not Sam (BUT I agree it might've meant something else and that would HURT).

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Sun, 20 Apr 2014 23:24:57 -0000

I don't think they were considering Castiel expendable. They just began to discuss strategy. I believe firmly that there was never any doubt that they were going to trade for Castiel. I think Castiel is so important to them that they did not have to discuss it.

Re: Supernatural – Episode 9.18 – The Gripe Review | Spoilers

evave2 — Mon, 21 Apr 2014 00:29:59 -0000

I agree you with 100% plus 1. I think in that NYTimes article they were trying to say that THIS show at least does not have to sell us as naked cowboys. I also think that they don't particularly WANT to show their bodies off. And I don't know if SHOW agrees with them or the network itself (it is so funny when you read network memos to SHOW about making the coat Dean wears more fear-inspiring or something I mean they discuss their clothes (why aren't they in sleep clothes?) the way the car looks, just wacky stuff (I never saw one which discussed the plot though, I guess those aren't leaked).

Re: Supernatural - Episode 9.19 - Alex Annie Alexis Ann - Promotional Photos | Spoilers

evave2 — Mon, 21 Apr 2014 11:01:06 -0000

Oh it's Tuesday, time to get duct-taped to a chair.

Re: Please, Just Stop: Supernatural: Bloodlines Makes a Mockery of the Show You Love

evave2 — Thu, 01 May 2014 09:06:37 -0000

I can't think of which time he pulled over it was, but I don't think he stayed long. As usual for a tv show, there WAS plenty of parking, lots of space. (So usually the cops don't sweat that kind of stuff; we have lots of people who quickly run across the street - you know, jaywalkers - unlike lots of other cities you have to go to crosswalks. I was surprised at how "legal" people in other cities are.)

Re: Please, Just Stop: Supernatural: Bloodlines Makes a Mockery of the Show You Love

evave2 — Thu, 01 May 2014 09:14:36 -0000

I thought about that killing in #Thinman: those guys were pretending to be supernatural. So that brought in the supernatural "cops" and put them in their jurisdiction. The Benders and the crazy kids in Family Remains weren't "pretending" to be supernatural so they were still under "human" law (of course both crazy kids were killed while they were trying to kill the family who unknowingly moved into their house).
There is a difference to me. Dean expressed sympathy for the crazy twins. But I agree Sam and Dean said nothing about that murder of the claw-killer guy (I had thought maybe the cop would try to arrest him and Dean, going along with the overall season arc, would kill him saying, THAT's how you stop the war, kid. But I guess they didn't want Dean to kill a hunter. Matter of fact, DID he ever kill another Hunter? I can't remember if he did.)