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Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:20:46 -0000

JB
You know what I find that is interesting. Canada as a country has some of the most easy abortion laws out there. But when you look at the reported deaths in 2006 I cant find them for 2007 and 2008, but they are reported as just under 100,000 deaths.
So you stated they have a population of 33,212,696 and yet just under 100,000 abortions.
But they also have UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE.

I just wonder if that has something to do with it. They don't have to worry if they get sick, beacuse they have insurance for everyone.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:10:29 -0000

Thank you Charles. I didnt realize that. So a deacon would be considered one, and also a person who passes out the Eucharsit in mass aside from the priest. They would be considered lay people then?

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:30:35 -0000

Does anyone read the HQ Conservative Underground? I think they are sort of a Republican based site.

http://www.humanevents.com/...

I'm sort of intregued that the President of Fidelis writes articles for them. The Conservative Underground.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:56:11 -0000

What does it mean if you are a 'lay association of the faithful'.
What exactly is a lay association? And how is one a 'lay association of the faithful'?

Can someone help me with that? Is that a Catholic thing?

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:15:36 -0000

KW,
I didnt realize that TIME was a liberal magazine. I have read many articles in Time of the years, and I wasnt under the impression that they were liberal or conservative.
Can you list for me all the Liberal Magazines out there, that do news stories?
Then the conservative one's, so I will know the difference when I read news stories?

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:12:29 -0000

Girgadis,
You sincerely hope that the operators of this 501 lobbyist group that manages this site are not republican operative. I hope you are correct in that you think they are not. I think lobbyists work for someone. Considering the article TIME magazine is writing up top, and that FOCA isnt even up for a vote, I have to wonder. Also, considering that even if they overturn Rowe V Wade, it goes back to the states. So you have some states allowing it, and some not. You still havent stopped it entirely. Then you also have the rest of the world to contend with. Nicholas Sarkozy(France) is a Catholic, but he just dosent go to church, so the Pope can't really excommuinicate him. The Pope can do what he wants to do in regard to Nancy Pelosi. It is no one else's call but the Pope's.
So you are doing this to save souls? Because if one has a conscience, and one uses it in a way that they think in their own conscience is the best way to address abortion (like fighting poverty and other area's where you have more abortions on the rise in ceratin ethnic areas or in poorer area's) that is wrong. Because it doesnt line up with someone else's conscience. This is where I see the problem and I simply am not in agreement. You can buy it hook line and sinker, as they tell it to you, but take a look at 1Corinthias read Chapters 10-14.
Without love you have nothing. You can't divide up Christ. And no one's freedom should not be determined by someone else's conscience. Just because someone thinks they have the only means to combat something, doesnt necessarily mean that they in fact do.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:08:19 -0000

Patty,
Did you have your baby yet? I just wanted to say that I can appreciate you understanding that the forfathers of our country didnt wan't any one religion to dominate the politics of America.
The thing were I see the disconnect, is that I have not problem with overturning the abortion laws.
I do want there to be protections for women though. In cases where they mother's life is in jeopardy. This is the disconnect, when you have people that are so fanatical, that they say in 'no cases' should any mother 'ever' end the pregancy due to any reason. Even very serious medical reasons. You might be someone that feels like that yourself. Without those protections, you will never likely get people behind this. It's like people want it their way or the highway, no compromise,no care or concern for living humans (mothers) that could be in dire medical situations. You have people on this site stating things like, 'Well when my mother came down with this or that, she still sacraficed her life for the life inside of her"... That is all well and fine, but that now you are dictating who's life is more important. The unborn or the mother that needs to be treated for cancer. Or the various other medical reasons that could be out there.
You just have no give, and it's all or nothing. No love for the person that is alive. You just have rules that many feel that they need to follow, and they can't look outside of that with any compassion. You want to govern the world under exactly Papal law. You also want to govern the church under the Pope's conscience, rather than letting others have their own consciences.
Many feel the way to fight this is only on the political forefront. That's it. You are not open to the approach that people do have hearts, and a good campaign pulling at the heartstrings of people is the way to open these doors to the mainstream American people.
No instead you have to use Dem vs Republican, and you feel it is all politics. I simply feel it's all heart. Hearts and minds. I wish I had the resources to prove you all wrong, but I don't.
I just think you have more power in swinging hearts, when you let people feel that this is a LIFE matter that involves everyone in our society, not just the political side of our society. But no one see's that. YOu think it's about offending a particular person because of his political voting style.
You just don't see that it is a clanging cymbol, or a closed door in trying to bring people together.
What you and most others want to do is bring everyone to their conscience, and their idea of the way to stop this. The Pope is seeking power in his own right too. Cause he wants to combat this issue, and has decided the only way to do it is by getting people to believe that they are not worthy of God, if they don't see this the most pressing issue of our times. It's a pressing issue, but just getting the law overturned isnt going to stop this.
I feel you are going to meet more opposition to this and this will be an all uphill fight. But you already know that. In the end, it will either go over or not. If not, then maybe you will look back onto my advice and realize that you could have hit the hearts and minds of the public with real ads that aimed at getting people to think about life. But instead, you wanted them to think about Polticis.
Which opens the doors to people saying, "Well what about the war, and what about the richest 1% getting the most amount of tax cuts, and what about the fact we dont have medical insurance for millitions upon millions, and what about the drug infested streets in our inner cities, and what about the poverty of certain areas right in our own country, what about all the houses borded up in Detroit, and what about gun control and kids killing kids in our schools, the list just goes on and on. With Catholics you can get away with guilting them out of their consciences, cause they feel the Pope is the way to Christ. The only way. But for the non Catholics, you have your work cut out.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:47:10 -0000

May I ask who threw them away in your church? Why would your church not have wanted them to be distributed? This is interesting to me. I just wonder myself as to why they would throw them away, and not be like totally cheering for these cards to be handed out? Where is the disconnect?
Please explain if you will :)

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:13:41 -0000

It's doubtful FOCA will ever be passed. He does not legisltate laws, if FOCA gets in there, then the Congressman and women are at fault and the Senate as well.
It is more than just him and the ad is more than just FOCA.
But this ad will not be aired most likley unless FOX picks it up and runs with it. Now that is a great possibility.

They could also get more local venues to try and run it. I bet many local tv stations would play it. It just might not get the national publicity they were aiming for.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:58:13 -0000

I am not pro choice

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:43:03 -0000

"I do not believe it is for the interest of religion to invite the civil magistrate to direct its exercises, its discipline, or its doctrines; nor of the religious societies, that the General Government should be invested with the power of effecting any uniformity of time or matter among them. Fasting and prayer are religious exercises. The enjoining them, an act of discipline. Every religious society has a right to determine for itself the times for these exercises and the objects proper for them according to their own particular tenets; and this right can never be safer than in their own hands where the Constitution has deposited it... Everyone must act according to the dictates of his own reason, and mine tells me that civil powers alone have been given to the President of the United States, and no authority to direct the religious exercises of his constituents." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Miller, 1808. ME 11:429

"To suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy which at once destroys all religious liberty, because he being of course judge of that tendency will make his opinions the rule of judgment and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own." --Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. ME 2:302, Papers 2: 546

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:38:41 -0000

"I have ever thought religion a concern purely between our God and our consciences, for which we were accountable to Him, and not to the priests." --Thomas Jefferson to Mrs. M. Harrison Smith, 1816. ME 15:60

"From the dissensions among Sects themselves arise necessarily a right of choosing and necessity of deliberating to which we will conform. But if we choose for ourselves, we must allow others to choose also, and so reciprocally, this establishes religious liberty." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers 1:545

"Religion is a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his Maker in which no other, and far less the public, had a right to intermeddle." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Rush, 1813.

"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others." --Thomas Jefferson to Edward Dowse, 1803. ME 10:378

"Our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to God alone. I inquire after no man's, and trouble none with mine." --Thomas Jefferson to Miles King, 1814. ME 14:198

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:28:55 -0000

I want to be SodaPop Curtis.

Someone liked the Outsiders? ;)

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:24:41 -0000

It is right and wrong, it has to start in the hearts and minds of people. I just dont feel that this message wins when it's fought in the political forefront. I am sure many many will disagree. I think it's like trying to divide up Christ. I think it's the wrong approach.
Who owns God? America?
Are there no Catholic leaders in any other countries aside from America?

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:12:03 -0000

NBC already rejected the ad first. I'm sure FOX would love the ad. Surprised they are not offering to run it 24/7 for free. You think FOX would love that ad. I Would think they would. Why isnt it running all the time for them yet? I don't know though, cause I dont watch FOX news.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:41:19 -0000

Every country does that, aside from Muslim controlled countries.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:27:01 -0000

Gargidis,
I posted down below, but then figured I'd move it up top so you would see it.
It cut off my last statement. Which is:

That is why I have been saying, if you really want people to get behind this message. Take the politics out of it. Once you can do that, you can get back to right and wrong.
The politics in religion is what is wrong with this world.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:24:42 -0000

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Girgadis,
You may not see anything controversial about the ad. But aparently the media outlets don't want to air it.
I have thought a lot about this, and I still believe you have to win the hearts and minds of the people.
When you want to divide people up by telling them they need to vote their conscience, and when they do, you tell them that their conscience must not have been properly formed.
My question is, Why should my freedom be governed by anyone else's conscience?
What you have done is buy into the fact that people can't properly decide in their own mind, and of their own conscience what is right for them. You accept that you should cast a vote based on someone else's concience rather than your own. And if you don't agree with them, then you need to find another religion or faith. What you are supporting is division in faith. I just simply disagree with that approach.
Always have and I always will. That

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:22:17 -0000

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:10:27 -0000

FR0007,
First off, do we know that Obama will be in for 8 years? So how can you say that last line like it's fact?
You are talking a little crazy.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 00:41:49 -0000

LIz,
I can't agree more. This was a good run, but the ad is not gaining traction. If it would of, I would have been happy that the life issue was out there getting promoted. But it's being rejected. I would like to see it advertised, as I see that as beneficial to pulling at the heartstrings of the public. No one that has a heart wants to see more abortions. We need to reduce them. Eventually stop them. But we need to start a campaign that gets people thinking about it. Ads can do much good. I think that is the way to get the message out there. You have to get your message out there first. Peek the publics minds and prick at their hearts and then move it into the political scheme. It's smarter in my opinion if you go about it that way. I think it would suit the greater cause better if they went with that approach. But who am I? Just some stupid mom, with three kids, that had a baby at a young age, and remained married, and kept it all together? What do I know about choices? What do I know about raising a baby when you are not ready? Who am I to think these things?
Just kidding.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 00:34:01 -0000

Hi Linda,
I agree that abstinance is the ony thing that truly works. Of course that is 100% the case.
But we live in a large diverse world and we have to reach out to so many people of different belief's and cultures. I wish it were as easy as everyone were a Cathoilc and everyone viewd things in the light that the Catholic Church has put out there.
One more thing. I liked that you shared that your brother became the priest after his very successful college degree. But I dont see that he gave up all that much. I mean, what he gave up was money, and a the world. But what he gained in the process is much larger and greater than what the world has to offer. He is probably much happier, and he is now living to serve others. I'm glad that you shared that. That was really cool.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 00:27:48 -0000

No Liz, I agree with you. The division must stop and I think you are right. This is beyond just one religion. We must win the hearts and minds of others. Until we recognize this, and truly commit ourselves to that, (winning the hearts and minds) then we probably won't accomplish much. Let's be honest. When I work, not one of my co=workers has saw the ad. Not one member of my swiim team knows this exists. There are lot of people who have no clue this battle even exists. And if they cant air the ad, as it is, and the traction is not there, then they need to re=group and start over. Let's get to winning the hearts and minds of the people. Because that is what will truly move this cuase. It is a human rights issue, and it's not in the spot light, like it should be. It needs to be a heart matter, because we all have a heart.
We must not divide eachother into groups of you are either this or that. We have to approach this universally, or I just dont see it taking a foot. I know that many will not agree, and that is ok. But that is just my two cents in the matter.

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 00:19:52 -0000

Morgan,
This ad has been rejected by not just NBC but now CNN.
Do you think they should try again with a different ad, or just continue with the same approach?

Re: CatholicVote.com

CindyPA — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 00:17:03 -0000

Hi Liz,
You are up late tonight. Me too :) I should be in bed cause I have an early swim meet, but I can't sleep right yet. I'm not really tired. I will be feeling this tomorrow though, when I'm up early to cart my kids off to their meet. What is wrong with me? :)