Disqus - Latest Comments for BlackAdAgencyGuy

Re: Radio One Looks To The Internet To Boost Revenues

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:27:08 -0000

BlackPlanet is unfortunately a sinking ship and the problem with radio station sites is that consumers dont 'live' on/clammor to/return-often to radio station sites all that often. The best they can do with that is convince some their local clients who respect their local radio reach into giving them some additional budget to be on the radio site. The site's look good but they're all the same - that can be a win or lose in an advertiser's eyes depending on the vantage point (can be perceived as cookie cutter and not personalized to those local communities)

At least they're trying so hats off to that...they don't have much time left from what the press is showing:

The stock is at sub 60 cents and a report from Standard and Poor’s downgraded Radio One Inc.’s credit rating to CCC+ from B-, expressing concerns that one of Maryland’s largest minority-owned business might be overextend itself on its debts.
http://baltimore.bizjournal...

RadioOne makes money but burns through it at a much faster rate.

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:11:25 -0000

I think for the most part we've relegated to little insults which is the story of black folks from the beginning. Again guys, just trying to give perspective on how money flows and time is used. at the end of the day if a site can't deliver -- it doesnt help us if we have a controlled message that we have to get out in a short period of time.

I'm done -- fading to black until another blog story catches my interest.

I will give you an email soon Dede (im about to mack her yall - @dede just kidding!)

Great convo/Peace

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 16:47:39 -0000

AdGroups, HispanoClick, GorillaNation, Google are the only companies we work with on Multicultural ad network scene outside of buying direct sites (starting to expirament with facebook profile targeting as well). The staffs at all 4 companies are incredibly supportive and smart and the first 3 all offer custom options beyond just network options so its a win for us (would only recommend working with google if you're in the hispanic space because honestly black ad dollars are super cheap there which helps us more than you.

This year alone we've spent in excess of 4 million across those outlets just in multicultural and are starting to include them in general market campaigns as well.

We've turned down and will continue to turn down offers from BET's network, GG, Glam black, and Essence's network because they arent real dedicated networks. We realize that.

I do realize that all ad networks won't work globally for all sites.....i guess its those less than expected experiences and improper testing that makes a lot of people here come off as really negative (I have a lot of publishing and blogger in-real-life buds and i have to set all their expectations as well..."when you're small -- you're going to make change -- stick with it").

BTW - Hispanic pays gangbusters in google's program

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 16:41:49 -0000

Thanks for the perspective Dede. I definitely know how to do my job lol. I see your posts here and they are very opinionated/polarizing in most cases but still good reads.

Guess what. I've worked for 2 publishers (1 mammoth/1 start up in the black space who folded because they didnt want to partner and monetize)...3 ad agencies...1 job on the client side... and 2 ad networks (in the television space).... Although I just dated myself there (i am less than 50 still lol) I am very well versed in all perspectives and only trying to give perspective on how cash flows, sales happen, and the importance of relationships and reps.

We *do* test some smaller sites directly (i believe I said that) but if they are too small and can't deliver on impressions...whats the point? We don't invest in ideas or forward thinking comments....we've been burned there too many times... It loses us money. We don't invest in aesthetics and pretty sites with 0 traffic but we may watch them for a few months. Also smaller sites tend to overcharge to compensate on the lack of traffic and most of the time still cant deliver. This doesnt make the best sense for our clients either. The strong survive....plain and simple. You yourself wouldnt let a person with a hammer and a box of nails build your house for a million dollars...its the same effect in how we need to maximize how we approach websites....working with a clearing house to support the smaller outlet sector is a better utilization of our time (we do the same to penetrate local market tv and radio stations -- meaning work with networks/rep firms)

We've kept our current client roster for the last 5 years and have had nothing but success in our campaigns in the multicultural area (otherwise i would be out of a job).

Great convo -- just trying to open some eyes so I don't see your resumes posted up on HotJobs from being stubborn lol. This week alone we've spent 1 million on ad networks with about 100k going to a black and hispanic network respectively because we want to be in that small site sector. Guess you wont be a part of that. Too bad! (keeping an eye on your site though and that pretty profile thumb wink- wink-wink)

Do your thing! It *may* work out!

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 16:13:02 -0000

@Gina (hi!) - Great Question:
"If a group of Black oriented blogs got together and could produce a million visits/uniques/impressions ( I don't know that you've distinguished), what would they need to do to cut out these random ad networks"
>>> (it was over a million uniques per 30 days).....To answer your question it means that you yourself becomes an ad network and in the model you're talking about you're bound to lose friends due to internal competition and jocking for positioning for in many cases limited ad dollars. Also, when networks are small, we evaluate every site independently and pick the sites we want unless they all share similar content or reach the same audience. I honestly foresee that type of model getting potentially really nasty because as with any "singing group"...there is a clear cut leader and what happens when 'Beyonce' gets really big and figures out she can eventually 'cut' you out? ---The smaller parts will fade away having mediocre (Kelly/Latoya) to no success (those other no names I no longer remember lol). It's a user model where the strong will build themselves on the smaller parts and the smaller parts will be left along and scarred....way too many kinks in that model (what if a site gets called directly and chooses not to bring that to your cooperation network? gets nasty). You'll have a lot less head-ache rolling with an established partner independently (i think). Focus on YOUR business.

You said "Do you care if you get 10 sites that pull in 100,000 visits versus 20 pulling in 50,000? Because the ad networks don't appear to be doing anything Black bloggers could not do on their own and cut out the unnecessary overhead."
>>>To be honest either view looks ok as long as the site's are quality.

Please be aware that 'ad networks and rep firms' have existed in the current sense since the 1920's ...they are not villains and they provide a quality service that would burn through your personal cash very quickly. Items like technology infrastructure (ie ad serving), ease of administration (negotiations/knowing how to aggressively sale), traffic and monitoring, handling of paperwork/billing, and most importantly an established sales force with deep contacts with advertisers and their agencies that you may never be able to garner and maintain outside of phone chat --with that said.. I really don't agree with all of the cut out language because these companies have a place in the scheme of advertising negotiations because it makes our lives easier (again...Most of the major publishers in the top 50 of all websites use ad networks networks, local market television stations use networks (we buy spot tv exclusively through networks as a matter of fact via companies like http://www.telerepinc.com which is HUGE and provides and incredible service), radio stations use networks, magazines use networks but so many here are staunchly against networks -- it really doesnt make sense financially for you not to use an established network). The problem that's really hitting the black space is that there are a lot of company's that threw their hat into the fray quickly when the word 'ad network' was really hot in the latter part of last year and a lot of folks got burned by over promises.

There are a handful of really great niche market networks out there that are very very established that I would encourage you personally check out vs taking the word of a friend about their experience because your site's are not a like....very few are!

Rule of thumb
- Dont work with network less than 3 years old
- Don't work with networks that mandate exclusivity in any sense
- Be a little skeptical of networks 3-5 years old but be more willing to test them
- A network that has survived beyond 5 years will be around and should be tested
- Work with a minority owned company (if you can find one) and not just a firm trying to take advantage of the moment of cutting into black dollars (a minority owned, operated, and controlled company is like working with family and what I've wanted to see in the cooperation of black site owners for years -- these are people too -- not to be hated -- they have families they are trying to feed -- and believe it or not...they dont have pointy tales and horns under their perms and naturals lol.

I know of 2 minority owned, operated, and controlled networks in the Hispanic and Black sectors that are worth working with if you have the kind of content they are looking for. Both companies are well over 10 years old and we see sales people from their companies almost monthly and have a great rapport with each company (again im not pubbing any companies here).

Re: How Not to Run Ad Network

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:29:53 -0000

One thing I've noticed. This blog seems very anti-ad network. This is a wrong view because this is the main way we purchase against black sites since so many of you have sub 1 million visitors (which is about 98% of all black targeted sites)

@markus
you said: "If you decide to try a new ad network, make sure you introduce their ads into your existing inventory slowly."

This couldnt be more wrong. Ad networks can only sell against what they see and most ad network servers will serve ads to sites than can finish campaigns....if you're only giving a test amount of impressions or turning the feed on and off and are brand new to boot make sure its a decent amount or you can't expect to get the more premium campaigns. SO your test method will fail 99% of the time (study the algorithms of serving across the major ad servers and you'll see what i say is true). We ASK ad network 'how much can X.com yield over Y period of time'...if all they see is a small pittance of your inventory they will probably guide the conversation to larger sites...so at least make your networks aware of what you can scale to.

You said: "Sell your Own Ads"
I agree but Sites should go for selling their own ads but realize there will always be a need for a quality fill service because last time I checked...absolutely no medium to large publishers are dealing with 100% sell out situations....no one (we even use networks to access myspace, yahoo, and many other large outlets when we don't see a need to deal with them direct). I lead a planning department of 39 planners....we're getting hit with offers and introductions left and right. One thing rings true though...we don't have time to speak to publishers than have sub 500k uniques per month...preferably 1 million (not the best utilization of our time since us agency folks have to track every movement we make for billing via time cards of which sales pitch attendance is part of that). In many niche areas we frequently use ad networks because its a better model for us to discover new sites and still support a great deal of smaller websites (we've dumped millions in 2008 into 3 ad networks with black and/or hispanic reach that I won't pub and we've had great success with that - we don't do business with news aggregators and publisher initiated networks at all because they don't understand what it means to be an ad network. I've flat out told BET that we would not use their ad network and to only chat with us about BET.com only).

I'll let you in on a little secret too...us agency folks take advantage of sites that use google vs an ad network because its so much cheaper.....we also know that if you're in a performance based ad network that we will get more impressions out of the deal especially with black sites because conversion is bad on about 90% of sites out there but we still get the branding effects.

So my advice
- Look for a CPM based network or two and stick with them for a few months at minimum
- Pick up the phone and call them if you're seeing less than desirable results and ask them what can you do to make things better
- Test a performance based network and jump ship after 3 months if your audience isnt converting with their ads
- Look for a niche network specialist if you're in the niche space (there are black networks, hispanic networks, gay networks, senior networks, pet networks, etc)
- Work with more than one network but not too many (we can see that)
- Stay away from networks that have their own advertising vehicles (you're getting screwed there)
- Stay away from new networks (this is why you're not getting paid)
- Realize that if you're small change in terms of traffic...don't expect a high yield but consider the ads that you're getting from your network as great placeholders to show us proof of concept of how their ads will look on your site
- Ask the network for advice on growing your traffic or even buy into them yourself
- Realize that your site isn't linear in worth as the next site just because you're going after the same audience so your CPM can vary widely. We always stipulate that a site must be optimized out of a plan if there is no interaction rates or conversions.
- Realize CPMs are not the same per campaign so no network will gaurantee you a set CPM but most networks offer you the possibility to set a floor (we pay a range from .05 to about 4.00 max for the ad networks we do business with)
- Ask networks if you can establish a floor or base CPM and if they can back-fill your inventory if that floor is not met (and don't be so aggressive on the floor)

It's really simple. But I will say that all of you anti-ad network anti-rep-firm folks are missing out on a lot of buys that exclusively flow through those channels.

If a lot of you worked to understand how money flows a little better - you would be much more well off and this is coming from a fellow African American that controls a combined advertising budget of over half a billion dollars per year of which around 15-20 million is spread to multicultural websites and for us about 60% or more of that business is via ad networks that we've worked with for at least the past 5 years with a very small amount being tested directly on a handful of sites and then rest is spread across the larger sites that you can predict because they can move the impressions.

Re: BlackPlanet’s Featured Blogger Program

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:09:37 -0000

Glad some you guys are finally waking up. The "aggregate your content on our so-called big name site" model is not a win/win for those providing the content 90% of the time. Globalgrind, Essence, InteractiveOne, Roc4Life, Glam -- the list goes on for players in that area. In the boardroom its called aspirational membership....companies know they can gas the unknowing to slap up their logo on their site for virtually years free of charge in exchange for posting some content on their website (duh...90% of bloggers are grabbing/stealing/posting/linking-to each others content for free anyway -- and you know what...if you refused...they will still do it too). THey know that small and green bloggers want to feel like they are part of something bigger than them when they can say they are a contributor to X, Y, or Z (people love to 'be down' - especially with names like that). Sure it helps on traffic here and there but not long term... you are being used. They are even sending t-shirts/hats/pens and inviting people to offline events to put the cherry on top of the brain-washing that you're doing the right thing.

It's quite simple...
- If you need traffic...market your website yourself via a combination of keyword and low cost marketing channels (ie an ad network that focuses on the audience you want to reach, or even contact some sites directly). Those without funding and still working full time jobs should set aside a small budget to test different marketing channels
- If you have a quality audience and need ad representation or fill....go with a network and/or rep firm (a more established means of filling volume that has been around much longer than the internet and exists in every medium). At least this way us planner/buyers can become aware of your site and at least put you on the the radar because we really don't have time to chat with publishers with small reach no matter how aesthetically pleasing your website is.
- Network, Network: It's hard to link-share with the big bloggers and websites but everyone has to start somewhere. Link share with people on your level and it will probably work out overtime.
- Don't participate in content snatch programs like the one mentioned above in exchange for creating branding for the aggregator (if they want a fixed logo on your site...make them pay for it as an advertiser)
- And for God's sake - come up with something other than entertainment, fashion, gossip, or cloning an established model unless you think that you can build a better mouse-trap (i think there are a couple of other dimensions to us than just this)

Re: Inside Look at MediaTakeOut.com

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:41:07 -0000

This post got a lot of comments....most likely because of the love/hate attitude people have towards MTO and so many people were surprised that there is actually a method to the madness (i always personally thought the guy was a monster body guard sized dude with a group of paparazzi-ish thugs that didnt care about their well being -- because back in the day -- they were pretty scathing -- not as much anymore -- but i used to think that some rap crew or someone was going to mash them for some of their stories lol. They are actually pretty nice to a lot of folks now in their articles

Re: Inside Look at MediaTakeOut.com

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:31:08 -0000

Bossip and Lossip are the same company -- Jossip is not connected

Re: Inside Look at MediaTakeOut.com

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:45:09 -0000

now thats a deep comment and very interesting view point (the whole African thing because it definitely has some merit that all african americans know and occassionaly feel about africans) -- the staff over at bossip is white too -- both leader sites and both the messiest of the lot....interesting viewpoint indeed

at the end of the day -- MTO is like the Enquirer or Star Magazine -- you dont believe most of that stuff do you? -- its just funning around im sure (i think)

Re: Inside Look at MediaTakeOut.com

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 21:38:23 -0000

MTO is a huge site but Comscore is BS for reporting on black sites....according to them --- most of the audience on any top black site is white. BS stats. MTO is huge though

Re: Global Grind Shake-up, CEO out, on the way to Deadpool?

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 23:22:26 -0000

@herb -- reelax man -- only opinions. I spend a great deal of media on black targeted websites for my clients. I want many to succeed -- I just have a clear view of the silliness of so many projects out there (GG is just a Digg in black...most clones dont make it unless they can create a unique technology within their cloned idea). If they had a staff of less than 6 -- they would do really well because less mouths to feed but that isnt the case. Luck to all!

Re: Inside Look at MediaTakeOut.com

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:02:06 -0000

Love to see people behind the scenes like this.

One wrong thing was stated here
He said: "“If you are going to bend your content to the advertiser’s whim, in the short run you are going to get more advertising. In the long run I don’t think that’s the case. The advertisers want nothing more than eyeballs.” “Your main goal as a publisher is to bring eyeballs to the table. In the long run, the more eyeballs you have the more they tend to want them.”"

This couldn't be more wrong.....we advertisers don't want sites to bend to our wishes to gain a buck....we want to place our brands next to nice content AND where there is a lot of eyeballs...where we can be proud to show it off in a meeting in front of a Fortune 500 CEO....where there is no cursing, explicit imagery, etc. -- It's called journalistic integrity. Sacrificing one over the other would cause bad results

MTO is on a good roll as a tabloid and has gotten less nasty with bashing people in the last 24 months (works for as many advertisers as it doesnt im sure). Looking forward to seeing a TMZ like television show even if produced just online (MTO check out TMZ's Apple Application as well...would love to have a MTO app to get my gossip on while traveling on these stuffy a$$ trains, planes, and cabs)

Keep going strong!

Re: Global Grind Shake-up, CEO out, on the way to Deadpool?

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:13:09 -0000

@Kevin: Just my opinion man -- didnt mean to ruffle. my last sentence said that an easy re-mix of their business model could make them successful...so I am optimistic about their opportunity (hip hop is just a very limited view for their technology). No black project (today) is EVER going to be a twitter, a facebook, etc because its....black and believe it or not -- blacks dont even want just black. Once companies that deal in niche industries are comfortable with confining themselves and their goals and don't have expectations at those (facebook/twitter) levels and tone down the arrogance meters -- I think you'll see a lot more successful projects coming out where projects are tempered and realistic in their goals or you'll see a lot more minorities developing sites and utilities that are suited and built for all people who will end up being hugely successful (the latter would be great because there are a lot of smart people in these blogs here but so many latched to 'black'). One thing is certain today...staying in black is not going to make anyone a billionaire online for at least 20-25 years (about how long it took bob johnson to pull it off)

Re: Global Grind Shake-up, CEO out, on the way to Deadpool?

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:12:40 -0000

Ouch - watching that video was painful. You could see that Navarrow was already feeling brow beaten even then. His eyes, posture, and facial expressions said it all

Ingredients for failure: Black Targeted website + Major Egos + major funding meaning that have to show some stride real soon + an unoriginal idea (ie Digg in black) + targeting a sub-niche (Black>>Music>>Hip Hop leaning/Gossip)

Navarrow will land at another sinking ship of a site....probably TheRoot, Rushmore, or some other nonsense someone threw up where they have to position that they've hired someone to prove that their serious. He gets to be in that ever rotating circle of black site executives that always seem to get hired for black site project after project (good money in that ROFL)

Best advice for GG...you've thrown a lot of money in building a aggregation technology...leave blackness behind and diversify and make a major entertainment news aggregation service. Thats where more ad dollars and traffic will be to recoup your money and then some.

There is my bone for the day.

Re: Blogs Join Forces to Create “The Black Family Blog Network”

BlackAdAgencyGuy — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:26:39 -0000

Good idea but these blogs need **a lot** of work visually (because it boils down to...whats different than any of the other 2000 black blogs out there)....nothing special so far other than the announcement. I wouldnt buy them yet for any of my clients