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Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:58:07 -0000

Ah...another link to support your findings. As someone on a conservative blog wrote with regards to statistics....they can be skewed to make anyone's point.

First off, the 'Comparison of Health Outcomes Relatively Insensitive to Health Care System Characteristics, 2000' report submitted by your esteemed Ohlsfeldt and Schneider from AEI is missing some very pertinent information (and probably explains why NO report includes this data when doing Life Expectancy models).

1) Method or reporting Transport or Murder rates per participating country. IE: The reported death rates per 1,000 due to motor vehicle accidents can be especially misleading, even if the reporting is assumed to be uniform because the percentage of people driving varies widely between the countries listed. Fifteen countries reported deaths per 100 million vehicle-miles driven in 1996. For most of these countries the numbers indicate death within 30 days after the accident, but for the United States it is one year, whereas in Japan it is 24 hours.

2) How many ways can a man (or woman) die and why are they not taken into account in the report? TEN LEADING CAUSES OF ACCIDENTAL DEATH, MID-1990s

CAUSE

(1) Motor Vehicles
(2) Falls
(3) Drowning (Nontransport)
(4) Fires & Flames
(5) Poisoning, Solids & Liquids
(6) Medical Misadventures
(7) Firearms
(8) Natural & Environmental
(9) Water Transport
(10) Machinery, Cutting & Piercing

Of course, there is always murder and suicide but those are more commonly in the news because of their shocking nature. The actual larger number of deaths are based on the above. (and some of these categories would have sub categories).

My point is, that these numbers are not, and should not, ever be taken into consideration when authoring a Life Expectancy model simply because the mode of death in a reporting country may be very dissimilar than in another (ie: Lower amount of drivers in one country to higher amount in another skews actual data). The Life Expectancy Index is a statistical measure used to determine the average lifespan of the population of a certain nation or area. Life expectancy is one of the factors in measuring the Human Development Index (HDI) of each nation, along with adult literacy, education, and standard of living. Life expectancy is also a factor in finding the physical quality of life of an area.

I believe it may be time for you to have another lateral internal sphincterotomy....as you seem constipated with the same useless material arguing points. (Being that I'm so handy with a proctoscope proves my authenticity of your own need). Of course, you may just want to increasing fiber intake, oral fluids to maintain hydration, NSAID analgesics, sitz baths, and rest. :)

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 09:32:43 -0000

Actually Bellerophon, your data is skewed and you didn't properly do your research. You were basing your comment of US Life Expectancy's being the highest on the misrepresented data posted on a Conservative blog.

Outside the Beltway took one graph in a very lengthy report and posted it to support it's claims that America is #1 in life expectancy. This is the farthest thing from the truth.

A comment from the graph on the Beltway site suggested further research may be needed. Here is the comment:

"This title of this table is deceptive: It does not in fact compare life expectancy to life expectancy factoring for fatal injuries, it compares to something completely different: GDP per capita. Read the text - the equation at the heart of this table is there - and you'll see that the "standardized" numbers are not derived in any way from life expectancy, as the authors misleadingly suggest. Instead, the numbers come from the authors' estimate of what life expectancy might be like, if the quality of a nation's health system were simply a function of wealth. Well, it's not.

If you do an honest table that compares life expectancy to life expectancy factoring for fatal injuries, you'll see that the differences are slight, and the rankings do not change significantly, and the U.S. remains around 17th or 18th."

I found where they got that data from, it's from a report generated by the OECD. I also found that I needed to subscribe to the Database or use the assistance of a Librarian with access. I didn't want to waste time on that, so I called my Uncle who is a specialist doctor (and no, he does not plan on retiring or quitting when Healthcare starts). He directed me to this site:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs...

He also told me that the comment made on the graph was correct. It is misleading as it is based on GDP per capita. He said that America's life expectancy has decreased because of the lack of preventative care available to people under most Insurance Policy's. Also, due the lack of coverage for certain disorders, or people general inability to pay for coverage or care.

He also then pointed me to a study done by National Geographic on Health Care Costs per individual as per certain country's. I found it fascinating and thought you might have a comment.

http://blogs.ngm.com/.a/6a0...

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 04:20:03 -0000

Uhm....even the CIA lists us at #49 in Life Expectancy. We are beat out by the UK, Canada and Puerto Rico.

https://www.cia.gov/library...

Actually, any Census Bureau lists the US low on life expectancy....not just one done by our government....other governments list us as such, WHO does and other non-partisan research organizations within the "great United States". :)

Also, the Canadian Politician that everyone is ranting over and who is causing such an uproar for the "obvious" deficiencies of the Canadian healthcare is Danny Williams and he had this to say....

“We (Canada) do whatever we can to provide the best possible health care that we can in Newfoundland and Labrador. The Canadian health care system has a great reputation, but this is a very specialized piece of surgery that had to be done and I went to somebody who’s doing this three or four times a day, five, six days a week.”

Essentially, this is no different than someone from the US travelling to another country for specialized care with a more tenured and experienced Doctor. The US does not have patent rights on this phenomenon.

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 03:15:41 -0000

Please excuse the length of time it took me to respond to you....I was busy being 'pissed off' and 'sputtering' (even though you spelled it 'splutter' and I really do not know what the means for the life of me). :)

Please pauleducatedandthoughtful, if you seriously think some unknown person has the ability to make me feel any of those things, you are a bigger fool than you sometimes appear to be. What pisses me off is idiocy, redundancy and the inability to make a change when all avenues have been provided to do so.

I never denied that ACORN has been naughty, I was merely pointing out that they were not guilty of the trumped up naughtiness that FOX and Glenn repeatedly reported on...for weeks. They were naughty of essentially the same things that the GOP can be found for presently, misappropriation of funds and fraudulent (dare we say federally criminal) behavior. As for voter fraud, a handful of workers for ACORN were found guilty for voter registration fraud by the Government and non-partisan watch dog organizations could find no fraud with regards to the actual voting process. So try again.

However, if you wish to bring up actual voter fraud, we can always discuss the Florida recount debacle....or any of the ballot fraud allegations that came up whenever Bush ran for President. I just hope if I ever run for President, my brother is ready and willing to run the recount for me in one of the swing states! ;)

My point is, BOTH sides are at fault for any number of illegal actions and to waste ones time over pointing fingers and name calling is absolutely ridiculous. If you have opinions different from my own, I would no more think you anti-American than the next person....unless those opinions gear towards taking away my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. But taxation WITH representation? We've had it ever since the original and rightful Tea Party. WE are at fault for the taxation we have now. We allowed it to happen....or at least our forefathers did and we have sat idly by since then.

I very much like the suggestions that you made however. I agreed whole heartedly with Clinton's time limits on welfare recipients as I had witness first hand in CA neighborhoods, mothers who were nearly at the end of welfare for one child, would get pregnant with another to start the process all over again. And then sit at home drinking and eating and watching soaps or game shows. It disgusted me, working my ass off day in and day out to know that my tax dollars were going to THAT instead of being set aside for me in case of some horrible rainy day that I might need it (like the sub-prime crash when I lost my job for 6 months and unemployment saved me till I got another one.... or the market crash when I lost almost every single cent I had ever put away for my retirement because my company only offered 401K Market Sharing and I couldn't afford to buy into anything else at the time that I purchased it and never could get them to roll it into anything else after that).

I'm also with the tort reform, and to put a cap on "pain and suffering". I agree that "pain and suffering" are out there and are very real but I do NOT agree that it should take millions or even hundreds of thousands. Cap it at some manageable figure and then figure out a way to put some stricture on the company's or individuals who cause it so they will be less likely to behave in that manner again (which is why, I believe, the amounts became so exuberant).

I'm wondering though, what are your suggestions for getting these proposals even heard or passed as Bills? What can we do to get our representatives to pay attention to these sorts of things instead of what the special interests want (who pay them so much money that it's hard for them not to accept it and therefore do more for the special interests or corporations than the people who got them elected in the first place)?

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 02:27:07 -0000

Ok, once again....that was my point all along....both sides are guilty of doing this sort of thing. So why are we falling into the same trap and arguing over who did what? Like you said earlier, who cares what they said? It's what they did and how it can be fixed that should matter.

I honestly believe that we should be working together to resolve this country's problems instead of letting the Governments politics bleed into the everyday man's freedom to resolve the issues.

I don't care if you are Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative or Libertarian....we all have a moral obligation to come together and work on a resolution.

I liked many of the idea's posted by pauleducatedandthoughtful in response to me, now my question would be how do we implement them and see them through?

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 02:21:22 -0000

My point exactly....you brought them up as points so I responded because they were not completely factual ones.

If you don't care....don't bring them up! ;) Right?

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 01:30:58 -0000

:) seeing as it's too hot where I am presently....I'm the farthest thing from being cool.

But it's not off the point....well, yes and no. My point is that why are we bothering with this topic. You brought it up in a point and since it was a wrong point it needed to be pointed out as superfluous. See what I mean?

Ok, so back on topic....what are your suggestions or ideas for fixing the issues?

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:51:18 -0000

Excuse me, I have made a typographical mistake, I meant 29 miners who were killed. Not 39.

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 14:47:21 -0000

Then you should be ashamed of yourself, for lessoning the atrocities that Hitler did to the Jewish people by comparing him to someone who differs in opinion than yourself. Thankfully your Grandmother and father made it through. Many in my family history did NOT.

However, after reading your diatribe of reason's why you associate Obama with Hitler, I can see exactly what I'm up against. A Glenn Beck / Fox News devotee.

1) SEIU was formed in 1921. Please tell me you do not think that Obama somehow has a part in that. OR are you referring to the money that Andy Stern contributed to the Obama campaign? Or the money that he helped raise? I'm wondering if you are at all concerned with the money that Don Blankenship has donated to the Tea Party Patriot and Tea Party Express? I'm wondering if you think that money could have been better spent on the safety of his coal mine workers...say like the 39 who died just recently?
2) ACORN, this is quite funny as the worst that they can possibly be held legally accountable for is money fraud. Did you miss the news? Those 'Pimp and Pro' tapes were a setup and legal action is being taken against the 'young duo' by the CA Attorney General.
3) Criminals in power? Seriously? And that is something NEW to the Obama Presidency? Come on....what Presidency does NOT have criminals working on it? I mean, if you want me to get specific I can name off 37 people from the Bush administration that were either convicted of a crime or left office due to investigation of said crimes.
4) Shock and Horror!!! News agency's bend the news to fit their own social agenda????? NO WAY! But I bet your going to tell me how Fox News is fair and balanced in it's 'reporting'. Wait....before you do.....you should know that Rupert Murdoch has claimed, that Fox is strictly an entertainment network. Heck, Glenn himself says that he is just a "life commentator" and therefore does not need to check his facts.
5) Did you know that the Private Sector will be available even AFTER the Healthcare Bill begins to work? Not exactly a whole "taking over" kind of scenario, otherwise that whole Private Sector thing would have never been enacted. ALSO, the Bailouts of the Banking industry happened under Bush's watch....not Obama. So no go on that one either. Give me another one that he's totally taken over.

But my absolute favorite statement of you was this...."He even has his own version of Hitler's studied oratorical style."

Please go back and read/watch learn your history for yourself rather than listening to talking heads. Hitler (as well as Mussolini) had a bombastic, grandiloquent oratorical style. He was adroit at audience manipulation and self-presentation. He employed a voice-trainer who had studied mesmerism. He built impressive public domains, employed grand ritual, and mythic symbolism to boost his own position as undisputed leader. His spectacular public appearances were orchestrated and his entrances carefully timed.

The advent of radio forced oratory to become more intimate and conversational and since TV that too has evolved as the not only needed to sound good...but look good as well. Martin Luther King or JFK for example, were great orator's.

I'm wondering how on earth you can compare Obama to this sort of orator? Obama is very good at giving speeches, he has a pleasant demeanor and is easy to listen to. But a great orator who could woo millions? Seriously? I believe you give him far too much credit.

So, my good student of Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly, I ask you to ATTEMPT to give me something more than just talking head propaganda.

Like sayyyyyyy, what YOUR idea's are to solve the issues at hand. And please spare me the "Vote Obama out and repeal all the Democrat passed legislature" because to be quite honest that just pisses me off. What a huge waste of our time and money. I would LOVE it if they could work to make what is in there BETTER and repeal only that which is absolutely necessary....but I have little doubt that that will ever happen.

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 03:26:43 -0000

With regards to this statement made by you:

1. bush didn't cripple this economy with debt like obama has done. what has bush ever passed that could come close to the "stimulus," or "obamacare," or potential "cap and trade?" please say the war on terror budget, that would lead to point...

I refer you sir to this article by the CATO Institute. And as an FYI, it is not a PRO Obama or PRO Democrat site.

http://www.cato.org/pub_dis...

As quoted in the piece...

"Some Republicans, for instance, complain that Obama tripled the budget deficit in his first year. This assertion is understandable, since the deficit jumped from about $450 billion in 2008 to $1.4 trillion in 2009. While this might make sense to a casual observer, it is largely untrue. The 2009 fiscal year began Oct. 1, 2008, nearly four months before Obama took office. The budget for the entire fiscal year was largely set in place while President Bush was in the White House."

Big government won't work any better for Obama than it did for Bush.

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 03:05:57 -0000

With regards to this statement made by you:

2. people like pineview relish in the fact that obama bows to world leaders like china, and tries to appease the governments of iran/north korea. obama is making a statement that he is "embarressed to be american (although he's technically kenyan)"

I suppose you've been listening to Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, or Romney. Perhaps you are a dedicated viewer of the Heritage Foundation site.

Eitherway, I rely on more non-partisan information and tend to do a thorough research into inflammatory rhetoric than what you must have done. If you read Obama's actual statements, he never ONCE apologized.

At the worst, Obama is using conciliatory language for diplomatic purposes, not apologizing.

Check this article: http://www.politifact.com/t...

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 03:00:51 -0000

Actually, I believe pineview1997 has a point here.

Primarily what we are seeing of the Tea Party Movement is the same fabrications being circulated time and time again. This gives the movement less credence. If the political affiliation is a moot point, then why the need to bring up (once again...and SUCH a tired subject) Obama's country of birth?

Pineview1997 was responding to YOUR comment of:

So, my question is, are you a birther? If not, do you understand that the Obama campaign, in 2007 released a copy of his birth certificate. The Hawaii Department of Health has verified his birth. Since then, the Kenyan government has confirmed that he is NOT a citizen and four non-partisan and unaffiliated watch dog organizations have authenticated the birth certificate that he produced.

Here's the link for just a few of them: Image: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

FactCheck.org article from 2008: http://www.factcheck.org/el...

So, my point is, why are we waisting time on issues that are NOT really issues? Why do we still have to hear the same old fear based rhetoric as exampled in your statement of Obama not being a US Citizen?

And to answer your question above....

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 02:38:34 -0000

PS: THIS was the section that I was referring to in my previous post. My opinions, beliefs and ideas do not necessarily match your own, however I honor your right to them and do not disparage you for having thoughts different than my own.

YOU on the other hand have called anyone with an idea different from your own, a mode of political thought other than your own the following.....

"anti-american, progressive, socialist, marxist, communist"

4. I get that if your anti-american, progressive, socialist, marxist, communist...ext you won't stop until america is completely destroyed and smoldering in ashes. You won't ever make a legit point, and never agree with anyone that is patriotic that actually comes up with legitimate ideas. All you want is america to fall, you don't want her to become great again. You won't be happy until we have a cuban style of government. You want government to take care of you, for your whole life. You are scared to do any single thing in your life, or make any kind of choice or decision. You are afraid to fail, you will always be handicapped in that fact. I really feel sorry for you, you are on the wrong side of history.

It is YOU sir, that I feel sorry for. History has a plethora of 'radical' President's who changed this Country for the better or for the worst. People like you who rant and scream and call other's names are lost or forgotten or seen as crack pots of the time. While some of your points are very good and thought provoking, it's irritating to see that they are forgotten between your lines of thinly veiled sarcasm for another's opinion and outright derogatory statements.

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 02:26:18 -0000

Excuse me sir, but I HAVE attended one. What I thought would be a NON-PARTISAN rally based on an intellectual discussion on how we as a people can TOGETHER make a change for the better of all.

I was a lone Democrat in a world angry Republicans. What I SAW were signs depicting Obama as Hitler or signs that said things like "The Zoo has an African and the White House has a lyin' African". I HEARD people telling me that our President was a Socialist, a Communist and a Marxist....a Dictator. That if I didn't agree with their political agenda, I was as Un-American as the rest of them.

Then I was fortunate to hear the same tired lies again again about the Healthcare Bill and Obama's legality as a citizen and numerous other things that any true American can easily find out for themselves are lies and misrepresentations.

I asked someone when we would start discussing the problems at hand, the real ones and was told "Honey, these ARE the problems at hand!".

Seriously? So no one cared about the logistics of the BILL. What kind of funding would be needed and where it could come from. If there would be a citizens over site committee for local Government Hospitals. No discussions on concrete resolutions towards Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies to lower the costs and keep them down should we wish to repeal the Bill. Or ANY other idea's or opinions about alternatives???? NO ONE????

So, in answer to your question Pauleducatedandthoughtful, I DID do my own research instead of listening to talking heads. I am NOT a good little Glenn Beck follower who hears and believes every golden dulcimer word that falls from his lips. I have a mind, I use it.

Now, what do you have to say?

PS: As someone who volunteered with the elderly, one of whom was a wonderful lady who had survived the Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland, I take GREAT umbrage to people so lightly throwing around the idea that Obama is like Hitler. Obama has not taken away your right to pray to your own God, he has not taken away your right to live and he has NOT driven you into exile in some foreign land.

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 02:07:49 -0000

You have totally missed the point. Completely. It's as if you have blinders on and can only view a comment from the surface instead of actually reading and understanding it's meaning. I SAID "I'm also wondering if the present day Tea Partiers are aware that their actions and platforms make them appear as the people in this photo do..."

Allow me to explain further....

The people in that picture felt that race mingling was communism. The people at the Tea Party Express rally's hold up signs about communism, socialism, marxism and that is all fine and good....except that they are applying it in the form of psychological word terror.

They aren't really sure WHY these words apply to their situation but they DO know that those words strike fear into the hearts of less informed people. They hear how the present administration is Un-American and Non-Patriotic. They start having visions of Stalin, Hitler and the like. These people were merely dictators who used a mode of political THOUGHT to better drive their own political and personal agenda.

The attendee's are also the same people who have no problem whatsoever of accepting Unemployment, Social Security, or Medicaid. One lady interviewed thanked God that her unemployment check came in time for her to make the trip to the rally. Really? God sent that check? Not the socialist government? All of the previously mentioned are Social Programs and therefore Socialist based on their own definitions.

And let's not forget the everyday Social Programs, like the Police and the Fire Department. Socialist in their definition as well.

My point is, that not all things that are from the Socialist (or any other political thought) are BAD. It's the men who misused them that made these trains of thought into a words that strike fear, and people who use them are no better.

If you must rail against the machine, then do so in an intellectual manner instead of one that will get you the most attention or the most votes. That just brings you down to the level of the people who we all should be against.

I do not believe you read my original comment properly. I said we DO have a debate going here....but so far I see nothing more than a bunch of talking heads that have no ability to admit a wrong, or to make concessions when other's make a good point. I see people who want to believe what they want to believe and see what they want to see and disregard all else.

Where is your resolution to the problem? If you have one, is it possible for you to make compromise on some issues which other's disagree with you on? Is it your way or the highway? If so, isn't that a bit isolationist?

If that is not the same as the picture I displayed before, I don't know what is.

Re: Tea Partiers Release Document of Principles - Politics - The Atlantic

Auroracoda — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:50:19 -0000

I am wondering, why you feel the need to resort to name calling anyone with an opinion that differs from your own?

I'm also wondering if the present day Tea Partiers are aware that their actions and platforms make them appear as the people in this photo do http://upload.wikimedia.org....

I agree with a person's right to express their political opinions. What frightens me more than anything is the lack of intellectual debate and resolution (we may have debate but I surely see no resolution), the inability to express when one is wrong and the rampant fear mongering, conspiracy theory, falseness that people are encouraging.

Re: Indian Wedding Story, Part Six

Auroracoda — Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:05:35 -0000

Loved seeing this! So beautiful and I can't wait for my own wedding now!

OH, and my friend S went with me to help me with getting the Sari and pieces made....she's having them make the top a little longer as to help hide some of my tummy!!! Isn't she just the bestest friend in the whole wide world???? I just loves her! lol

Re: Intercultural Interviews: Indian Parents’ Perspective (Part One)

Auroracoda — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:06:07 -0000

I think it's more # 3. And a few other concerns.

Re: Intercultural Interviews: Indian Parents’ Perspective (Part One)

Auroracoda — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:04:45 -0000

Sarah, thanks so much for this post. Bear and I both read it together this morning and it was like a big sigh of relief that we can see people who are 'past' what we are begining and everything turned out alright for them.

I'm not expecting miracles....but I am hoping for the absolute best. :)

Also, I'm so sorry you both had to go through that! What a traumatic experience! People always think their situation is bad until they read another person's story....and then we sit back and say "Oh Wow!"

Re: Intercultural Interviews: Indian Parents’ Perspective (Part One)

Auroracoda — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:56:07 -0000

One thing I would like to know, and I'm sure others would like to know as well, is if you asked them their advice on how to deal with Indian Parents who have vowed to disown a child if he/she marries someone not of their liking....before even meeting the intended.

I would really like to hear their opinion on how to handle that or if they have any advice.

I'm sure you haven't had time to read it yet...(because I just posted it), but STILL (after eight months) Bear's family refuse to speak to me or atleast agree to meet me. We announced our wedding to them and invited them to come and they threw down the gauntlet with the "We will disown you and consider ourselves to have only one son" threat.

I (we) both feel this will change over time and so we responded with our continued love for them, our respect for their decision, our desire for them to come and for us to be a part of the family. We ended it with this is their decision now, whether or not to disown us. And GG, it's hurting Bear so much. Me as well, but this is his parents whom he loves so much and I know it's hurting him horribly. Do they have anything to say on what we can do? Shall we just continue to try and talk to them or should we give them some space?

Lots of love and GG? Thanks for this. Thank you so much. >:D< HUGS.

Re: To Hug or Not to Hug: More on Meeting the Parents

Auroracoda — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:50:47 -0000

Hmmmm interesting point…..not that I agree with it. :) lol

I think that maybe it’s not so much that we are less committed than other cultures are but less judgmental of what other people do in their lives.

Time and time again I’ve heard story’s (both from Indian Men and Women as well as from Western ones) about how this couldn’t be done or that had to be done because the family wanted it, the society wanted it, and the neighbor’s wanted it. I’ve heard complaints about how no one in an eastern culture has time to look after their own affairs because their too busy looking after other’s.

Here in the US, we are more individualistic, which means that it’s more an atmosphere of “to each his own”. People may gossip here, but in general nobody really cares what the neighbor across the street thinks, or the community. We do what we feel is right for us in the situation we are in. Nobody else has walked in our shoes, so how can they judge.

I get the feeling that while the same term is used in eastern cultures, it’s not necessarily so much lived by.

Sure the divorce rate in the US is much higher than in eastern countries; however I would be more interested in seeing a study done on infidelity rates in the east. Divorce is public, where anybody and everybody knows about it and can weigh in, but Affairs are generally private or everyone “turns a blind eye”.

Comments? Thoughts?

Re: Arranged Marriages and Intercultural Relationships

Auroracoda — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:22:39 -0000

Hi Julie...

GG and MMDP both have good and valid points. Truly, neither of them are wrong. MMDP was right when he said that there are instances of this happening to other people. And admitting it doesn't make the Desi community or the people who fall in love with them wrong. GG is right when she says that each story is different and you cannot apply a rule to people just because they are from the same heritage as an offender.

Each story is different. Each situation is different. There are ways you should have protected yourself better, but to be honest they had nothing to do with culture or tradition. Just common sense, which...let's be real here...goes flying out the door when your in love with someone.

I know what you're going through, before meeting my fiance Bear, I was in a similar situation as you except mine didn't last quite so long. Only about 11 months. But it hurt nonetheless.

It's ok to hurt and it's ok to cry. You should. It will take some time for you to heal. But you will heal and you will go on and you will meet the person who is truly for you. See, my philosophy is this...if your bf was truly "the one" he wouldn't be going home to marry someone else. That does NOT make him a bad person...not at all, he just wasn't as strong as he thought he would be when the situation came up. Sometimes we're are wrong about ourselves and what we would do in a situation. Perhaps you shouldn't have waited with him for so long...but really that is your choice and only you know what's right for you. And I believe that everything has a reason...something is learned from everything.

For me, I learned from my previous relationship more about the culture and the nature of the society, traditions and religion from my ex. I grew as a person. I think this made me stronger so that I was in the right place in my life when I met Bear.

Bear...who IS my true love.

Does that make sense?

Don't worry, it will hurt for a while. But we're here for you, you aren't alone. Take care and keep in touch.

~Aurora

Re: Words on Hindostan - Part One

Auroracoda — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:12:41 -0000

I think you're right there, but as I'm still learning about the different trains of thought...this was the only word that I both understood in my own context as was used to explain it.

And I'm reading through Aditya's response now....

I think what has best answered it so far is this part from Aditya....

"--> Finally correct usage. Caste system was introduced by Manusmriti (which is not divine text by any stretch of the imagination). Vedas introduced the Varna system - which essentially says "you should perform the duties of your occupation" (or you get fired). And your statement belies the very nature of Hinduism. It has always been a very fluid (and personal) religious system - which has adapted continually over time. From the Bhagvad Gita (responding to the rise of Buddhism) to the Upanishads & Puranas, Hinduism has accepted new liturgy into it's fold to remain relevant."

Perhaps what was confusing me was the difference between Varna and Jati. Varna is the word I needed to describe what I had read so far of the Vedic Scriptures.

Re: Words on Hindostan - Part One

Auroracoda — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:09:28 -0000

I have a quick question on this topic...

I've read that the caste system, a long time ago, was not so much what we consider to be a 'caste' system but more of names for specific jobs but did not define the people who worked them or their family. When the Indo-Aryans came, they brought the defining terms of caste and soft rules for alignment for each class of individual. I've read that it wasn't until British rule that the Acara of the Dharmaśāstra was taken literally as Hindu and Indian law rather than the religious way of life (which I've seen arguments that this was all the Dharmaśāstra was for).

Taken from Wikipedia at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... (I know this is just one source, but I'm citing it because it has information that is found all over the net and in some books in the library....so it's the most readily available example to use):

"The castes did not constitute a rigid description of the occupation or the social status of a group. Since British society was divided by class, the British attempted to equate the Indian caste system to their own social class system. They saw caste as an indicator of occupation, social standing, and intellectual ability. [31] Intentionally or unintentionally, the caste system became more rigid during the British Raj, when the British started to enumerate castes during the ten year census and codified the system under their rule."

I'm wondering if this theory is correct. If the caste system was made worse because of British (and previous) rule? Do the Vedic scriptures mention caste? I haven't made it that far in my reading of the Vedic texts. I’ve completed the post Vedic Scriptures but then I read the arguments that the orthodox Hindu’s do not put any stock in those…that they are strictly stories to be used as philosophical or educational material to learn and understand Hinduism. Not literal truths or histories. I’ve also read that at one time Hinduism only prayed to Brahmin and no other God or Goddesses.

So many questions…but the first would be, did the caste system as we understand it and know it, start with the Vedic Scriptures?

Re: Don’t Get Your Undies in a Bunch: Worrying About Intercultural Quirks

Auroracoda — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:42:04 -0000

:P Knew you were gonna say that. LOL

And I agree...Freud was not a bastion of science. However, he did give good reference and starting points.

And THAT is solid foundation for any good science. By someone observing, analysing and asking questions...and then the smarter person with a chem set and a microscope actually figuring it out. ;) hehe

But yeah, you actually got my point and explained what I was trying to say about the mother/child relationship once the child becomes aware of sexual thoughts in a much better (and shorter!) way then I did.